J.B.G Trivia

[OGRE]

Found this connection on an older forum:

The "code name" J.B.G. not only represents "James Bond Girl", but can also represent the surname of the singer (Alizée), writer (Mylène), composer (Laurent).

J: Jacotey
B: Boutonnat
G: Gautier (Farmer's birth name)

[CFHollister]

Interesting.

[Rocket]

Now I can die contented. lol

[aFrenchie]

The coincidence is funny indeed. But I think it's only a coincidence...

[CFHollister]

The coincidence is funny indeed. But I think it's only a coincidence...

I don't know... I wouldn't put it past Mylene to try to pull something like that.

[Amelie]

yes yes yes, it exactly is J.B.G :D

[aditya8617]

Peraphs another double meaning intended.

[OGRE]

I don't know... I wouldn't put it past Mylene to try to pull something like that.

Yeah, Mylène does these things. At first you go, "Cool, what a coincidence", and then you wonder if it really is coincidence after all. Mylène is a master at the double-entendre throughout her songs. For someone just trying to master the lyrics (like myself), double meanings can get lost.

Remember this line in Moi Lolita? "Mi-coton, mi-laine...". Now, why did Mylène choose "mi-laine"? Phonetically, "mi-laine" is ennunciated almost the same as "Mylène". Coincidence?

By the way, this is why I dig down into the culture. There is an entirely different level of appreciate for these songs that require an understanding beyond the simple words. I want to achieve that appreciation.

[aditya8617]

By the way, this is why I dig down into the culture. There is an entirely different level of appreciate for these songs that require an understanding beyond the simple words. I want to achieve that appreciation.

That is way too much work for me. But I like the idea of understanding beyond the simple words of a song.

[garçoncanadien]

hey with Mylene that's the idea folks

analyyyyyze her words

[Sir Wood]

Found this connection on an older forum:

The "code name" J.B.G. not only represents "James Bond Girl", but can also represent the surname of the singer (Alizée), writer (Mylène), composer (Laurent).

J: Jacotey
B: Boutonnat
G: Gautier (Farmer's birth name)
Wow, that's good to know. Wonder if RMJ knew this? He's like a walking encyclopedia when it comes to Alizée.

[Zack -Alizee Lover-]

ANALLLLLLLLLyze her words ! :p

[FanDeAliFee]

In the En Concert performance of J.B.G., Alizée and each dancer use a baton as accessories in their performance. Among the moves they make is a pantomime in which they handle the batons as one would clandestinely employ a firearm. The lyrics even say:<blockquote><i>Oh, elle est canon
Calibrée, culottée
Un canon de beauté</i>

<a href="http://alizee-reflections.net/jbg.html">translated</a> as

<i>Oh, she's a gun
Calibrated, in shorts
A gun of beauty</i>

with looser translations <a href="http://alizeeamerica.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5529">being</a>

<i>Oh, she's a cannon
Aimed, smoking
A hotshot</i>

<a href="http://alizee-reflections.net/jbg.html">and</a>

<i>Oh, a live cannon
Aimed to prey, set to play
Beauty will win the day</i></blockquote>(Aside: Read further on Alizée and firearms at More embarrassing than kissing on both cheeks? (http://alizeeamerica.com/forums/showpost.php?p=150867))

Would our new friend Corsaire try to <a href="http://alizeeamerica.com/forums/showpost.php?p=200617">argue</a> that the batons also represent Tinkerbell's magic wand? I'd say they are much too thick for that! Instead, they might well rather allude to the favorite toy of the women in Sex and the City. (Watch the video below for details.)

Indeed, the fact that this is a song (sung by someone Alizée) with lyrics which twice say:<blockquote><i>Une James Bond Girl
C'est de la dynamite</i>

<a href="http://alizee-reflections.net/jbg.html">translated</a> as

<i>A James Bond Girl
She's dynamite</i></blockquote>leads me to recall this familiar old English (<i>i.e.</i> James Bond language) limerick:<blockquote><i>A nubile young woman named Alice
Used a dynamite stick for a phallus
They found her vagina
In North Carolina
And part of her anus in Dallas</i></blockquote>http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/180891_10150138182821119_746321118_8731526_5638219 _n.jpg
<table width="480"><tr><td align="center"><big><big>Alizée as Alice. Where is the her <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Rabbit">rabbit</a>? Well, he always was anxious about arriving too late - but most women would say that is better than coming too early!</big></big></td></tr></table>
<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/RzG1vwVYHGs" frameborder="0"></iframe><table width="480"><tr><td align="center"><big><big>Softcore: The rabbit - but not the rabbit hole</big></big></td></tr></table>

<table border="5" cellspacing="10" color="black"><tr><td width="320">
<center><big><big><b>Alizée's special friend?</b></big></big></center>
Cauet: Do you have a fetish object? Something you never part with?
Alizée: Ummm...
Cecile: (changing her voice) A sex toy! Oooh, excuse me!
Cauet: Cecile, not everybody is like you. I've told you that many times!
Cecile: That wasn't my voice!
Cauet: Oh sure, everybody says that. You'll have to excuse her.
Cecile: (to the tune of Moi Lolita) C'est pas moi voix à moi! (meaning: it's not my voice, not mine)

<center>-<a href="http://alizeeamerica.com/forums/printthread.php?t=3217&pp=1&page=111"><i>La Méthode Cauet</i> - TF1 (2008-01-10)</a></td><td width="320"><a href="http://bellsouthpwp.net/d/o/docdtv/Alizee/SexSymbolism/"><img width="320" height="240" src="http://bellsouthpwp.net/d/o/docdtv/Alizee/2009Dec/RareTinkerbell.jpg"></a></center></td><tr></table>

Great translation, FDAF, but that limerick....erm...

I should like to observe two facts concerning limericks:

First, this form was popularized by English artist and author Edward Lear, whose 1870 book Journal of a landscape painter in Corsica (http://books.google.com/books?id=ndMGAAAAQAAJ) provides a wealth of detail about an island of interest to many readers here.

Second, this:<blockquote><i>The lim'rick packs laughs anatomical
In space that is quite economical,
But the good ones I've seen
So seldom are clean,
And the clean ones so seldom are comical.</i></blockquote>

[Chuck]

Great translation, FDAF, but that limerick....erm...


I think they shoulda just done this:

<object width="425" height="349"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube-nocookie.com/v/1A4XRSK1_cQ?fs=1&hl=en_US&rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube-nocookie.com/v/1A4XRSK1_cQ?fs=1&hl=en_US&rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" height="349" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true"></embed></object>

[FanDeAliFee]

Now that we're on the topic of James Bond, what is the significance of JBG? What does the reference to James Bond mean? Why did Alizée (Lourant, Mylene, whomever) decide to sing about a 'James Bond Girl'?

Found this connection on an older forum:

The "code name" J.B.G. not only represents "James Bond Girl", but can also represent the surname of the singer (Alizée), writer (Mylène), composer (Laurent).

J: Jacotey
B: Boutonnat
G: Gautier (Farmer's birth name)

no no no nono..!!!!
You're wrong, one day she saw a picture of a james bon girl, she was with Mylène Farmer and she says" La James Bond Girl elle est canon!!" The James Bond Girl is hot!!-canon- in french, she said that in every movie the James Bond girl is always pretty hot, so Mylène found it very funny and she decided to write a song about it!!.
I saw the interview in 2000 on french TV.....
On her song Alizee talks about the James Bond girl" Ho elle est canon, calibrée culottée un canon de beauté.... Ho she's a "canon"....
"Une James Bond girl ça sauve plus d'une vie c'est l'extasie" "a James Bond girl save more than one life it's extasy"

I'd like to offer yet another reason for giving Corsican Alizée a song called <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLkVJiY7tbU"><i>J.B.G.</i></a> (and I just love the clever Corsican references in it!)

The only woman James Bond ever marries was the Corsican "Bond girl" in <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_Her_Majesty%27s_Secret_Service_(film)"><i>OHMSS</i></a>, a daughter of the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unione_Corse"><i>Unione Corse</i></a> capo. She uses the name <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tracy_Bond">Tracy</a> rather than her given name, Teresa, introducing herself to Bond with the explanation that<blockquote><i>Teresa is a saint; I'm known as Tracy</i></blockquote>BTW, <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teresa_of_%C3%81vila">Saint Teresa of Ávila</a> <a href="http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Th%C3%A9r%C3%A8se_d'%C3%81vila">(Sainte Thérèse d'Avila)</a> closely studied Francisco de Osuna's mystical <a href="http://thenakedtheologian.com/2009/05/05/21-love-like-the-whip-used-to-start-a-top/"><i><b>Third Spiritual Alphabet</b></i></a>. But we have no evidence she set bookmarks at each of the "J", "B" and "G" pages - for the initials of <i><b>Jesus</b></i>, her <!-- French-bound -->protégé (Anne of St.) <i><b>Bartholomew</b></i>, and her spiritual director Jerome <i><b>Gratian</b></i>, <i>le bon dieu!</i> And visible from the southern tip of Corsica, an Italian town in Sardinia of 5,000 called <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Teresa_Gallura">Santa Teresa Gallura</a> lies across the Strait of Bonifacio. It so happens it was also the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Teresa_Gallura#Use_in_film_and_television">shooting location</a> for another James Bond film, <i>The Spy Who Loved Me</i>.

In the film, Tracy Bond was portrayed by the lovely Diana Rigg, earlier known to 1960s audiences as Mrs. Emma Peel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emma_Peel), half of the clandestine government service team portrayed in the British TV series (and international syndication hit), The Avengers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Avengers_(TV_series)). (I have read the series was also quite popular in France.) But the two Rigg characters were rather different. In the TV series, Mrs. Peel was a feminist, albeit sexy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtONkAWwS5E), icon - she had at least as many brains (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Gt-jdH-oxQ) and fight moves (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vtb4QO25Ipw) as her male partner. Whereas in the film, Tracy Bond was a traditional spoiled rich girl who needed repeated rescuing.

BTW, The New York Daily News would eventually assign a reporter to finally kill (http://www.nicholashirshon.com/index.php?main_page=document_general_info&cPath=4&products_id=29) the stubborn rumor that Telly Savalas, who plays the Bond villain Blowfeld in the film (and grew famous as TV's Kojak) had been a teacher at my high school.

With Alizée's stated new interest in cats (http://a-store.myshopify.com/products/alley-cats-scarf), I should mention that another actress, Honor Blackman, also starred both in The Avengers and as a Bond girl. To Bond, she was Pussy Galore, whose role name obviously inspired that of Alotta Fagina in the Austin Powers parody of Bond. I have also read that the name Emma Peel was a pun, perhaps a play on the phrase M Appeal, denoting the desirability of appealing to the M(ale) portion of the audience. I should also mention that in the Bond film, as the widow of an Italian count, Rigg's character name was Contessa Teresa di Vicenzo. (I guess they flipped a coin and so she lost out on being a Duchess instead.)

<center><iframe title="YouTube video player" width="640" height="480" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/KUQzNIxGLyM" frameborder="0"></iframe><br>The opening title of <i>The Avengers</i></center>

<center><iframe title="YouTube video player" width="640" height="480" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/DVP2n_GcdlQ" frameborder="0"></iframe><br>Poor copy of the theatrical trailer for <i>On Her Majesty's Secret Service</i> (1969)</center>

<center><iframe title="YouTube video player" width="640" height="480" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/YJeEwkVoUpk" frameborder="0"></iframe><br>The incomparable Louis Armstrong sings the theme song from the film, <i>We Have All The Time In The World</i></center>

[Chuck]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But then Telly Savalas shoots her! How do you explain that?!?!?!?!

[FanDeAliFee]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But then Telly Savalas shoots her! How do you explain that?!?!?!?!

France Gall told me it had something to do with <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-iysdFu_TQ">sucettes</a>! Who loves ya, baby?

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Brex25R3sEA" frameborder="0"></iframe>

[Corsaire]

Would our new friend Corsaire try to <a href="http://alizeeamerica.com/forums/showpost.php?p=200617">argue</a> that the batons also represent Tinkerbell's magic wand?

Well...

I would rather argue that the baton is a dynamite stick since that is pretty obvious from the En concert footage (you can easily discern the fuse). The dynamite stick is simply a reference to the lyrics, as it was pointed out.

I do agree (not sure if this is what you meant, FDAF) that it most likely represents a vibrator. The choreography does provide a few hints of its use as well as the sharing of the object (with a friend... or the crowd...?). Of course, as always, this is all done in a way that allows the most sensitive minds to disregard the possibility of any sexual connotation.

En passant, I would like to reiterate that everyone should be aware of the fact that most translations of Alizée’s songs found on the Internet (including AAm) are inaccurate and sometimes blatantly absurd. One needs to have a very good knowledge of the French language and culture to attempt translating those lyrics. Even francophone people have difficulties making sense of all the subtleties hidden in those lyrics. Therefore, I would advise extreme cautiousness when inferring based on those translations.

For example:

“Oh, elle est canon” actually means “Oh, she’s a bombshell”.
“Culottée” means “Audacious” or “Impudent”.
...

[FanDeAliFee]

...............

[DrSmith]

Whey (Ouais) in French is like yeah in English, if I'm not wrong.

[Scruffydog777]

Well...


I do agree (not sure if this is what you meant, FDAF) that it most likely represents a vibrator.
...

It could definitely represent a vibrator, after all, years later Mylene Farmer designed her own sex toy and wrote a song about it so I think that shows you what her mind set was, even back then. But I think it's safer to say it was meant at the least to be a phallic symbol and if anyone could ever figure out the secret behind the red shoe, which if you'll check the En Concert credits was designed by Mylene Farmer, it would all tie in rather nicely.

Regardless of what else they have been meant to represent, I seriously doubt Alizee knew of anything else they might have been meant to symbolize except for what seemed to be the most obvious and that is of a gun being weilded by a beautiful, sexy, young Bond girl.

[Azhiri]

Interesting stuff, interesting stuff. Wouldn't it be funny if Mylene were asked to comment and she looked at us all like we were crazy. :rolleyes:

... and if anyone could ever figure out the secret behind the red shoe ...

I never did find out what that was. What's the secret behind the red shoe?!

[OGRE]

Ah, the red shoe. Multiple metaphors there, I think. Depending on the viewpoint.

[Scruffydog777]

I never did find out what that was. What's the secret behind the red shoe?!

If I told you, it wouldn't be secret!

<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/9lVQ2yFMVyo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Monro]

Alizee is pretty.

[Naft]

If I told you, it wouldn't be secret!

<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/9lVQ2yFMVyo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Tell! Tell! Tell!

[FanDeAliFee]

...............

[Un-rêve]

I never did find out what that was. What's the secret behind the red shoe?!


Alizée was also asked in this interview " how was the idea of the shoe born and what meaning does it have? "

It's the second question. ;)

http://www.alizee-forum.com/content.php?740-Star-Plus-2004-01

[FanDeAliFee]

...............

[Un-rêve]

Yeah FanDeAliFee, I read that first. ;)

[Corsaire]

I did not really intend to tease Corsaire, but rather link to his magic wand discussion of a similar prop, which I hope you now all will read.

Thanks for promoting that thread!;)
This is by far the most stimulating moments I ever had on AAm and I doubt I will ever top that:). Although it was not for everyone, I hope that most people who gave it a chance enjoyed it.


Aside: Corsaire, you have said you like Alizée’s accent. I notice that she and especially Jérémy pronounce the French word <i>oui</i> as I would say the English word <i>whey</i>. I was taught I should use the same sound as the English word <i>we</i>. Can you comment on this?

This is getting quite off-topic, but since you asked... :D
I really love the way Alizée speaks. I like the accent, the tone, the delivery and the mannerisms. When she speaks, I feel that all her attributes are fighting to take precedence; she conveys innocence, maturity, unassertiveness, boldness, shyness, confidence, kindness, lovingness, seductiveness... and I find these contradictions very... well, seductive. I have never seen footage of people showing so many different facets of their personality when they speak. Of course, depending on her age, where she was in her career and what was the setting at the time, some attributes come out stronger than others.

[Chuck]

@FanDe - Howdy!

I just wanted to add here that if a Frenchie is saying "oui", but pronouncing it like "whey", then what they're actually saying is spelled "ouais". It's equivalent to saying "yeah" instead of "yes".

& similarly, @Corsaire - (Hey!) I've noticed a lot lately that sometimes the French pronounce "le" (and sometimes even "la") more like "les". I suspect it's similar to the way we say the word "the" in English: usually it's "thuh", but occasionally we say it like "thee", right? But I'm just guessing. I don't know - do they vary pronunciations of "le" and "la" like that up in Qbic? Please answer soon, this question is keeping me up all night!

[Scruffydog777]

...................This is getting quite off-topic, but since you asked... :D
I really love the way Alizée speaks. I like the accent, the tone, the delivery and the mannerisms. When she speaks, I feel that all her attributes are fighting to take precedence; she conveys innocence, maturity, unassertiveness, boldness, shyness, confidence, kindness, lovingness, seductiveness... and I find these contradictions very... well, seductive. I have never seen footage of people showing so many different facets of their personality when they speak. Of course, depending on her age, where she was in her career and what was the setting at the time, some attributes come out stronger than others.

That is very insightful and incredibly true.

How many of those qualities would you say you see in this short segment here?

<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/r8VC0hVN39A" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


Of course this was soon followed by what I thought were two of the most beautiful words spoken together that I've heard Alizee say.

<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/tqkfEGkfCC0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Corsaire]

@ Scruffy. Yes, if you combine both excerpts, you have a nice survey of a few of the attributes I was referring to. I agree, that “Merci beaucoup!” is really beautiful.


@FanDe - Howdy!

I just wanted to add here that if a Frenchie is saying "oui", but pronouncing it like "whey", then what they're actually saying is spelled "ouais". It's equivalent to saying "yeah" instead of "yes".


Oui, c’est bien ça.



& similarly, @Corsaire - (Hey!) I've noticed a lot lately that sometimes the French pronounce "le" (and sometimes even "la") more like "les". I suspect it's similar to the way we say the word "the" in English: usually it's "thuh", but occasionally we say it like "thee", right? But I'm just guessing. I don't know - do they vary pronunciations of "le" and "la" like that up in Qbic? Please answer soon, this question is keeping me up all night!

@ Chuck and FDAF, what are you trying to do, you fools! Don’t you know what is coming to AAm if a Québécois comments on French vowels pronunciation when le Français (le Bigdan) is possibly lurking? We could be setting up the stage for a battle which the recounting will petrify women and men and turn children into stone for generations to come...
... But since Chuck is losing sleep over this...

Myself, I haven’t noticed that “le” or “la” are being pronounce like “les”. Could it be that you are referring to specific cases?!

As for the differences between France and Québec, if we talk about vowel sounds in general, some might say that they are quite different, but I believe this is mainly related to informal speech. In formal speech, they are quite similar... Or should I say "were similar", since there is an interesting phenomenon that is slowly emerging in France; the disappearance of the distinction between some vowels sounds. For example:

In English, just use the vowel sound and drop any consonant sound.
Tomber and tombais - both pronounced like bay (Québec = bay and best)
Mettre and maître - both pronounced like mess (Québec = mess and matter)
Patte and pâte - both pronounced like cat (Québec = cat and paw)
Brun and brin - both pronounced like brown (Québec = bun and brain).

When I say “both pronounced like” it means the same or extremely close. Also, the phenomenon is somewhat regional for the last two cases. These are not exact vowel sound correspondence, they are just the best I could find. Keep in mind that my English pronunciation is Canadian with very slight English (England) flavour.

[Scruffydog777]

As for the differences between France and Québec............. .


I imagine up there in Quebec, you need not ever have been to France to be exposed to their language as opposed to Quebec French. So how prevalant in your province are movies, music, tv shows etc, that are made in France?

[Euphoria]

Seems more like a reference to a penis than a sex toy. I mean really, look at the lyrics, IT IS SO OBVIOUS. :rolleyes:

[Corsaire]

I imagine up there in Quebec, you need not ever have been to France to be exposed to their language as opposed to Quebec French. So how prevalant in your province are movies, music, tv shows etc, that are made in France?

Yes, we have traditionally been exposed to French movies, music, comedians, tv shows..., but in the last 10-20 years, Québec’s local talent has blossomed and we are less prone to look France’s way for entertainment. Also, in the same period, Québec’s talent has been exported to France with great success. That being said, France entertainment is still quite popular in Québec.

Seems more like a reference to a penis than a sex toy. I mean really, look at the lyrics, IT IS SO OBVIOUS. :rolleyes:


My comments were mainly in relation with the En concert choreography. As for the lyrics of J.B.G., I don’t really see what you are referring to. Could you give a little more details as to where you see these allusions to a penis? There is the old French pun about “James Bond” sounding like “James bande”, where “bander” means to have an erection, but that still doesn’t fit with the theme; the description of a James Bond Girl which is real dynamite, a bombshell.

One thing I noticed Euphoria, you often throw a bone without much meat when you post here. I think it would be much more useful if you did give a little more details when you make assertions of that type, otherwise, it is kind of useless to most people. I just think it would make your interventions more interesting if you elaborated a bit more.

[CALJ35]

Someone probably has already mentioned the connections between Corsica and the early Ian Fleming novels about James Bond. (Sorry if I am making a point already made). James Bond's wife, Tracy, was the daughter of one of the leaders of what is usually called "Union Corse," an organization comparable to the Sicilian Mafia. The story gets a little complicated but Tracy was ultimately murdered because of her connection to Bond or her father or both. I beleive Alizee was, at least at one time, intrigued with the glamour and celebrity that goes with being a James Bond girl and I certainly can't say that her interest had anything to do with Ian Fleming novels (or the first James Bond movie in which Tracy made her first and last appearance in the saga. But I do think the story is interesting.

[Euphoria]

Yes, we have traditionally been exposed to French movies, music, comedians, tv shows..., but in the last 10-20 years, Québec’s local talent has blossomed and we are less prone to look France’s way for entertainment. Also, in the same period, Québec’s talent has been exported to France with great success. That being said, France entertainment is still quite popular in Québec.




My comments were mainly in relation with the En concert choreography. As for the lyrics of J.B.G., I don’t really see what you are referring to. Could you give a little more details as to where you see these allusions to a penis? There is the old French pun about “James Bond” sounding like “James bande”, where “bander” means to have an erection, but that still doesn’t fit with the theme; the description of a James Bond Girl which is real dynamite, a bombshell.

One thing I noticed Euphoria, you often throw a bone without much meat when you post here. I think it would be much more useful if you did give a little more details when you make assertions of that type, otherwise, it is kind of useless to most people. I just think it would make your interventions more interesting if you elaborated a bit more.

No. It's actually pretty raunchy and I don't think its appropriate.

[Scruffydog777]

I really can't say that I think this song is raunchy. The most you can say with any kind of surety is that it's a song about what a James Bond girl has come to symbolize and that is the character of a beautiful sexy young woman.

Some of us have ideas of what the wands ( that's what I call them because they look like what we call wands that are used for marshalling aircraft on the ground) and possibly the shoe were meant to symbolize by MF and if some of us are right, you would have a case for saying it's raunchy but until the day comes, when Mylene comes out and says this is the true meaning of these songs and this is what these props were meant to symbolize, we can never be sure as to their true meaning, so therefore in my opinion, I don't feel it is inappropriate.

The song of Alizee's that I think might have the strongest case for being called raunchy would be Moi Lolita. I've looked at several different interpretations of the song and I've looked up the definition of most of the words in different French/English dictionaries and I've come to my conclusion of what I think the lyrics mean and If I'm right about my version, I would say it could be considered raunchy, especially with the fact that you have a 15 year old girl singing it, but then again, I'm not from France. No matter how much I reasearch the subject, I could never come close to fathoming all the different meanings that the lyrics might have. There are so many different sayings in every language that are almost impossible to know, unless you live somewhere where the language is spoken and you speak the language yourself.

So though I have a lot of confidence in what I think this song and JBG are saying, and at times will offer my opinion on the subject, I'm no expert in the interpretation of these songs, an amateur at best. I will keep offering my opinions on these songs, but at the same time realize that's all they are, opinions.

[Corsaire]

No. It's actually pretty raunchy and I don't think its appropriate.

Concerning the penis reference

I’m not saying you are wrong about this, but until proven otherwise, your assertion is gratuitous. If you still want to make the point without hurting AAm’s members’ virgin ears, you can PM me the pertinent information and if your demonstration is convincing, I will post a note (without the “inappropriate” details, of course) in the present thread attesting to the fact that J.B.G. does indeed contain direct references to a penis.

Just to make things clear, I have no problem with J.B.G. lyrics being about a penis (I am the first one to point out sexual references in Alizée’s work), but lets not just assert facts without any support whatsoever.

Concerning raunchiness on AAm

So, if I understood well, it is appropriate to point out the “SO OBVIOUS” (your capitalization) reference to a penis in J.B.G.’s lyrics, but it is inappropriate to discuss that “so obvious” matter because it is too raunchy... Well, if it is both “so obvious” and “too raunchy” for AAm, maybe we should ask that no J.B.G. lyrics be posted on these forums and that we should all refrain from discussing the song’s or the choreography's meaning.

[Beware, the paragraph below contains topics that Alizée sang about]
These days, kids on the Internet are openly discussing a movie about a mad German doctor surgically connecting people “anus-to-mouth” in an attempt to create a human centipede. This is the reality we live in now. Wouldn’t it be time that AAm forums and its members, as a whole, start to grow up and realize that the sexual content in Alizée’s work was blatant, manufactured and a very important part of the concept? An Alizée fan forum not at ease with discussing sexual topics is just plain ridiculous and rather hypocritical. When it concerns Alizée and her work, AAm forums often feel like one has to try to comfort a 7 year old who just overheard his parents having sex. Alizée did sing songs that refer to sex in general, to masturbation, fellatio, teen and/or pedophilic sex, bleeding after lost of virginity... To claim that pointing out to a penis reference in one of her song is inappropriate is quite frankly laughable.



Edit:


...
The song of Alizee's that I think might have the strongest case for being called raunchy would be Moi Lolita.

...


I think Gourmandises might be right up there with ML as far as sexual content is concerned. I might post about this soon, if time permits...

[DrSmith]

I've reached a conclusion about the lyrics to J.B.G. AND the big shoe from En Concert...<br><br><br><br><br>http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/5224/deeptrench.png

[Euphoria]

Concerning the penis reference

I’m not saying you are wrong about this, but until proven otherwise, your assertion is gratuitous. If you still want to make the point without hurting AAm’s members’ virgin ears, you can PM me the pertinent information and if your demonstration is convincing, I will post a note (without the “inappropriate” details, of course) in the present thread attesting to the fact that J.B.G. does indeed contain direct references to a penis.

Just to make things clear, I have no problem with J.B.G. lyrics being about a penis (I am the first one to point out sexual references in Alizée’s work), but lets not just assert facts without any support whatsoever.

Concerning raunchiness on AAm

So, if I understood well, it is appropriate to point out the “SO OBVIOUS” (your capitalization) reference to a penis in J.B.G.’s lyrics, but it is inappropriate to discuss that “so obvious” matter because it is too raunchy... Well, if it is both “so obvious” and “too raunchy” for AAm, maybe we should ask that no J.B.G. lyrics be posted on these forums and that we should all refrain from discussing the song’s or the choreography's meaning.

[Beware, the paragraph below contains topics that Alizée sang about]
These days, kids on the Internet are openly discussing a movie about a mad German doctor surgically connecting people “anus-to-mouth” in an attempt to create a human centipede. This is the reality we live in now. Wouldn’t it be time that AAm forums and its members, as a whole, start to grow up and realize that the sexual content in Alizée’s work was blatant, manufactured and a very important part of the concept? An Alizée fan forum not at ease with discussing sexual topics is just plain ridiculous and rather hypocritical. When it concerns Alizée and her work, AAm forums often feel like one has to try to comfort a 7 year old who just overheard his parents having sex. Alizée did sing songs that refer to sex in general, to masturbation, fellatio, teen and/or pedophilic sex, bleeding after lost of virginity... To claim that pointing out to a penis reference in one of her song is inappropriate is quite frankly laughable.



Edit:



I think Gourmandises might be right up there with ML as far as sexual content is concerned. I might post about this soon, if time permits...

I totally agree. It's something that has always bothered me, but I didn't want to offend anyone. It's been hard for me to find a decent translation, so I did my own. The more I read it, I don't think the whole song is a reference to a penis but there are definitely some raunchy puns in there. Maybe I just have a dirty mind. ;)

[Scruffydog777]

[B][Beware, the paragraph below contains topics that Alizée sang about]
These days, kids on the Internet are openly discussing a movie about a mad German doctor surgically connecting people “anus-to-mouth” in an attempt to create a human centipede. This is the reality we live in now. Wouldn’t it be time that AAm forums and its members, as a whole, start to grow up and realize that the sexual content in Alizée’s work was blatant, manufactured and a very important part of the concept? An Alizée fan forum not at ease with discussing sexual topics is just plain ridiculous and rather hypocritical. When it concerns Alizée and her work, AAm forums often feel like one has to try to comfort a 7 year old who just overheard his parents having sex. Alizée did sing songs that refer to sex in general, to masturbation, fellatio, teen and/or pedophilic sex, bleeding after lost of virginity... To claim that pointing out to a penis reference in one of her song is inappropriate is quite frankly laughable.

...

I'm afraid I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one. As much as I'd like to be able to discuss the inner meanings of these songs, I realize we have a lot of young fans who post and probably several more who just watch and they are an important reason why this forum is still here.

It's true that it's a different world out there. Kids are growing up, maturing, learning the facts of life at a much earlier age than a lot of us older members did. Still there are, I'm quite sure several young people who had no idea what these song "may" have meant and though we may be quite sure as to what Mylene is capable of and was probably trying to say in these songs, I personnaly wouldn't want to be the one to tell these younger members who originally thought they were just hearing beautiful songs, what really lurked below the surface.

Even if Mylene Farmer came out and said that all these songs had raunchy meanings to them and proceeded to give us the true meanings of each song, I still wouldn't feel comfortable discussing that with youthful members looking on. I don't want to take the chance of corrupting any young members here. If they are to find out how sordid something like that "might" possibly be, it wont be from me.

That's one reason I haven't fully revealed my feelings about the red shoe. FandeAlifee was very close in his post but missed an important element. I could be completely wrong in my feelings about this and might look like a fool (again) if everyone thought I was wrong about it. But that's not why I don't reveal my feelings. I've been wrong many times before and another mistake wouldn't bother me. The thing that keeps me from posting it is I don't want younger members hearing it first from me.

One last point I'd like to make, though I'm sure Alizee knew some of the hidden meanings, I'm sure she didn't know all of them. Too many people here seem to portray here as being beyond just a mortal. Being all wise, all knowing. No! She was just a beautiful young woman who may have learned a lot in her early years, but still had a lot to learn.

[Azhiri]

I'm gonna go ahead and assume that I'm one of the younger members people seem to tiptoe around when it comes to these sexual topics. ;)

I daresay that I speak for a lot of people when I say that while I am certain Mylene hid quite a lot of sexual innuendos and allegories in Alizee's songs, it really doesn't at all influence my original opinion of the song.

For instance, I really like J'en Ai Marre! simply because it sounds nice and the lyrics are cute and amusing taken at face value. Then I learned that a lot of those cute lyrics could also be seen as metaphors for masturbation or some such imagery. However, even as a kid I realize that it's really all in the eye of the beholder, and if I still see the song as a nice account of a girl who's fed up with the negativity in the world around her, that's what it is. That's the beauty of music, the meanings can be subjective and in the end, no matter the real reason a song is written, it can be adapted to have a unique personal meaning to the listener.

Likewise, there is no "real" black-or-white meaning behind the alleged sexual Alizee songs and it doesn't make any difference either way, although the songs can be also good and mean something to a person with a different mindset and opinions like you guys.

Another example, but with a movie: if you've ever seen Shrek, you probably know that there are a lot of funny parts for the kids, but just as many "grown-up" jokes too (for instance, when Shrek and Donkey arrive at Lord Farquaad's castle, Shrek notices its gargantuan size and remarks "Do you think he's compensating for something?"). When I first saw Shrek at the age of six or seven those adult jokes flew right over my head, but the movie was and is a beloved symbol of my childhood. Then, I watched it again not long ago, and suddenly I finally got those jokes that I didn't understand before. It made the movie funny in a new way, but I still consider it to be a fond childhood memory and nothing more than that. :)

[user472884]

These days, kids on the Internet are openly discussing a movie about a mad German doctor surgically connecting people “anus-to-mouth” in an attempt to create a human centipede. This is the reality we live in now. Wouldn’t it be time that AAm forums and its members, as a whole, start to grow up and realize that the sexual content in Alizée’s work was blatant, manufactured and a very important part of the concept? An Alizée fan forum not at ease with discussing sexual topics is just plain ridiculous and rather hypocritical. When it concerns Alizée and her work, AAm forums often feel like one has to try to comfort a 7 year old who just overheard his parents having sex. Alizée did sing songs that refer to sex in general, to masturbation, fellatio, teen and/or pedophilic sex, bleeding after lost of virginity... To claim that pointing out to a penis reference in one of her song is inappropriate is quite frankly laughable.


THANK you


It's true that it's a different world out there. Kids are growing up, maturing, learning the facts of life at a much earlier age than a lot of us older members did. Still there are, I'm quite sure several young people who had no idea what these song "may" have meant and though we may be quite sure as to what Mylene is capable of and was probably trying to say in these songs, I personnaly wouldn't want to be the one to tell these younger members who originally thought they were just hearing beautiful songs, what really lurked below the surface.

Even if Mylene Farmer came out and said that all these songs had raunchy meanings to them and proceeded to give us the true meanings of each song, I still wouldn't feel comfortable discussing that with youthful members looking on. I don't want to take the chance of corrupting any young members here. If they are to find out how sordid something like that "might" possibly be, it wont be from me.


Chil'rens are becoming more savvy even earlier these days. Anything you can say, any viewing chillinz have probably already heard it before.
For instance, only an hour ago I told my sister that I ate the last of the pineapple (apparently her being in her room for a few hours means "don't eat the pineapple I want some but I'll come down later so don't eat any of it") and she told me to "suck on a shit".

And as for corrupting the young members here, methinks Azhiri is already pretty savvy, Matt hasn't been here in AGES, I'm surprised I haven't been studied yet, and any unregistered chillinz have greater things to worry about on the internet scaring them than metaphorical penises and finger-banging sessions in foreign songs.


I daresay that I speak for a lot of people when I say that while I am certain Mylene hid quite a lot of sexual innuendos and allegories in Alizee's songs, it really doesn't at all influence my original opinion of the song.

For instance, I really like J'en Ai Marre! simply because it sounds nice and the lyrics are cute and amusing taken at face value. Then I learned that a lot of those cute lyrics could also be seen as metaphors for masturbation or some such imagery. However, even as a kid I realize that it's really all in the eye of the beholder, and if I still see the song as a nice account of a girl who's fed up with the negativity in the world around her, that's what it is. That's the beauty of music, the meanings can be subjective and in the end, no matter the real reason a song is written, it can be adapted to have a unique personal meaning to the listener.

Likewise, there is no "real" black-or-white meaning behind the alleged sexual Alizee songs and it doesn't make any difference either way, although the songs can be also good and mean something to a person with a different mindset and opinions like you guys.

THANK you

<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/rQECeV5nwzA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

THANK you

[Corsaire]

I created a specific thread for anyone interested in further discussing this issue:
http://alizeeamerica.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6382

(I know you probably already had enough Jalen, but let say, for other members who want to further discuss this...;))

Maybe the last few posts should be moved over to that new thread.

Edit:

I've reached a conclusion about the lyrics to J.B.G. AND the big shoe from En Concert
...




The only problem with your model, Docteur, is that I usually approach topics from the bottom...

[Scruffydog777]

As I said before, I'd really would like to know the true meanings of these songs, but not at all costs. The danger of discussing it in this forum is we only have a few members who have a good knowledge of the French language and we have to trust in these individuals that their interpretations are right. The only one who truely knows is MF and though we may have some very educated opinions on the subject, we could really never know for sure unless she told us what she meant.

We could have other members here come along, let's say Joe Schmo who knows a limited amount of French who might do a lot of research on the internet about the lyrics in a particular song and come up with a conclusion that Alizee is saying she wants to sleep with her dad and in the bottom of their heart, might truely believe that and other members might propose interpretations that might seem outlandish, but everyone is entitled to their opinion, so once you open up that door, you better be prepared for whatever walks through.

Most of us with our limited knowledge of the language would be hard pressed to refute claims that are made and in the process Alizee's image is sullied. I'm sure most of us know there were inner meanings to these songs, most, if not all of a sexual nature, but maybe for Alizee's sake, it should be left at that and again for her sake, we should be spared the sordid details. For in the end, what real good will it do us and at what cost?

[user472884]

I look at it this way;

Enjoy the song for how it sounds, or analyze it until all you can see and hear is a collection of unnaturally-placed clichés and metaphors and rhetorical devices and crap in one unnatural ensemble for the purpose of selling a risqué song that people can over-analyze rather than enjoy.

Now in case you haven't noticed, I'm not one for retaining ignorance, but really... are your worlds going to change if you understand the "true" (non-existant. art is interpretation) meaning of a song written almost a decade ago?

[Euphoria]

As I said before, I'd really would like to know the true meanings of these songs, but not at all costs. The danger of discussing it in this forum is we only have a few members who have a good knowledge of the French language and we have to trust in these individuals that their interpretations are right. The only one who truely knows is MF and though we may have some very educated opinions on the subject, we could really never know for sure unless she told us what she meant.

We could have other members here come along, let's say Joe Schmo who knows a limited amount of French who might do a lot of research on the internet about the lyrics in a particular song and come up with a conclusion that Alizee is saying she wants to sleep with her dad and in the bottom of their heart, might truely believe that and other members might propose interpretations that might seem outlandish, but everyone is entitled to their opinion, so once you open up that door, you better be prepared for whatever walks through.

Most of us with our limited knowledge of the language would be hard pressed to refute claims that are made and in the process Alizee's image is sullied. I'm sure most of us know there were inner meanings to these songs, most, if not all of a sexual nature, but maybe for Alizee's sake, it should be left at that and again for her sake, we should be spared the sordid details. For in the end, what real good will it do us and at what cost?

Personally, I like it. I've always liked the double meanings in Alizee's songs as well as Mylene Farmer's. We're adults, adults do, see, and talk about sexual things, it's just a part of life. Azhiri is totally right in saying that it's really in the eye of the beholder. At face value, the songs are rather innocent, and I like that. But I also like that there is a deeper meaning because it shows that she is human, just like the rest of us. I mean come on people, she has a child! She has obviously had sex. She had a tongue ring for Christ's sake, and you know why people have those. Step into the real world for a second and be realistic.

[Scruffydog777]

Personally, I like it. I've always liked the double meanings in Alizee's songs as well as Mylene Farmer's. We're adults, adults do, see, and talk about sexual things, it's just a part of life. Azhiri is totally right in saying that it's really in the eye of the beholder. At face value, the songs are rather innocent, and I like that. But I also like that there is a deeper meaning because it shows that she is human, just like the rest of us. I mean come on people, she has a child! She has obviously had sex. She had a tongue ring for Christ's sake, and you know why people have those. Step into the real world for a second and be realistic.

You are completely right on two counts here. The songs at first look are very innocent and the tongue ring I am more than sure was meant for one reason. But I think that what one sings about and how one lives their life, in this situation though at first appearence seem very related, are in reality far removed and I will explain further later on.

[user472884]

the tongue ring I am more than sure was meant for one reason.

http://emotibot.net/pix/63.jpg


it was a ring? I thought it was a stick-like thing

[Naft]

As I said before, I'd really would like to know the true meanings of these songs, but not at all costs. The danger of discussing it in this forum is we only have a few members who have a good knowledge of the French language and we have to trust in these individuals that their interpretations are right. The only one who truely knows is MF and though we may have some very educated opinions on the subject, we could really never know for sure unless she told us what she meant.

We could have other members here come along, let's say Joe Schmo who knows a limited amount of French who might do a lot of research on the internet about the lyrics in a particular song and come up with a conclusion that Alizee is saying she wants to sleep with her dad and in the bottom of their heart, might truely believe that and other members might propose interpretations that might seem outlandish, but everyone is entitled to their opinion, so once you open up that door, you better be prepared for whatever walks through.

Most of us with our limited knowledge of the language would be hard pressed to refute claims that are made and in the process Alizee's image is sullied. I'm sure most of us know there were inner meanings to these songs, most, if not all of a sexual nature, but maybe for Alizee's sake, it should be left at that and again for her sake, we should be spared the sordid details. For in the end, what real good will it do us and at what cost?

I wouldn't call it as much as the true meaning as a double (maybe more) meaning. As Azhiri pointed out the songs are subjective, but it is with certainty it can be said that the songs have more than one meaning to them. I for one will always see them as innocent, not only because I can't understand most of the double meanings without having them explained to me because of my lesser knowledge in French than any other member on this forum. If my first interpretation is that a woman is lying in the bath thinking about what's wrong with the world, being a tad bit pessimistic, then that is how I'll look at the song no matter how much you over-analyze it.


And a quote I find relevant:

http://cn1.kaboodle.com/hi/img/2/0/0/e2/1/AAAAAkQPzk0AAAAAAOIdgw.jpg?v=1206163951000