View Full Version : [Split] Video Capturing Discussion
Canuck
01-13-2007, 01:20 PM
on the topic of movies and stuff i wanted to ask a question that i wasnt sure has been answered yet :) um when alizee releases her third album is there anyone who will record of all her media and tv preformances and post them somewhere just like *that*. like a day after they happen.... yeah i know im impatient but i miss Alizee hhaha.
garçoncanadien
01-13-2007, 01:25 PM
plentyyyy of people are eager to do that. Visit www.alizee-forum.com and www.mf-international.com then you can meet them all. Don't worry we will be definitely able to see her TV shows and appearances even though we can't get French TV :)
plentyyyy of people are eager to do that. Visit www.alizee-forum.com and www.mf-international.com then you can meet them all. Don't worry we will be definitely able to see her TV shows and appearances even though we can't get French TV :)
Actually, this is something that's been worrying me for quite some time. We have fewer people both in France and with the right equipment and knowledge than you might think! We've lost many of our most dedicated cappers from the MCE era. Those remaining, mostly on MFI (Touch, Olympio...), would be doing it only as a favor to us and not also for themselves. That could make them less reliable, and we do not want to miss a thing! The French boards (Alliance, etc.) don't seem to have the technical know-how, as evidenced by Alizée's brief apperance on MTV last Feburary which Kiouty ended up having to cap. So yeah, I think this is a problem... one I've been trying to address for years now. It's a major reason why I urge cooperation among the forums (especially MFI, which many people seem hostile towards). We are going to need each other very soon!
Some of our theaters has subtitles for foreign people so they can go to see movies when living here... so I could imagine there's such things in Paris, too.
Usually this is only done for foreign films, and not domestic French ones. Though it wouldn't hurt too look (I would if I were there, though I'd settle for plain French if I had to), but I wouldn't hold my breath.
Canuck
01-13-2007, 02:01 PM
Actually, this is something that's been worrying me for quite some time. We have fewer people both in France and with the right equipment and knowledge than you might think! We've lost many of our most dedicated cappers from the MCE era. Those remaining, mostly on MFI (Touch, Olympio...), would be doing it only as a favor to us and not also for themselves. That could make them less reliable, and we do not want to miss a thing! The French boards (Alliance, etc.) don't seem to have the technical know-how, as evidenced by Alizée's brief apperance on MTV last Feburary which Kiouty ended up having to cap. So yeah, I think this is a problem... one I've been trying to address for years now. It's a major reason why I urge cooperation among the forums (especially MFI, which many people seem hostile towards). We are going to need each other very soon!
Usually this is only done for foreign films, and not domestic French ones. Though it wouldn't hurt too look (I would if I were there, though I'd settle for plain French if I had to), but I wouldn't hold my breath.
uhoh well im sure you'll find a consitant person to help us out as a favour !
things always seem to work themselves out in the end haha. or i unno how it works but that crazy satt tv on ur comp if this site could get the ones alizee appears most on like tfi and m6 it could be easier to get the vids of her straight to there computer. ill look into it and maybe ill be able to purchase some french channels for my comp. but i wouldnt know how to record them. Just a suggestion as of now.
Yeah, I looked into getting some French channels here, but all there is is Trace and TV5monde on one carrier. It's so annoying: most services have channels from like 60 different countries, but it's always everything other than France! :mad:
Yeah, I looked into getting some French channels here, but all there is is Trace and TV5monde on one carrier. It's so annoying: most services have channels from like 60 different countries, but it's always everything other than France! :mad:
Talking about which... I did further investigations and I found out that I could get ~100 French channels via satellite. :blink:
I read that it's possible to order CanalSat France to Finland. All I'd need is satellite equipments... (which would cost 500 euros at least)
These channels I'd be able to get (including all the major digital TV channels and bunch of digital radio channels):
http://www.lyngsat.com/packages/canalsatfr.html
(I would if I were there, though I'd settle for plain French if I had to)
Yea, but I doubt I'd understand much of it. :)
But we'll see..
aFrenchie
01-13-2007, 03:52 PM
Actually, this is something that's been worrying me for quite some time. We have fewer people both in France and with the right equipment and knowledge than you might think! We've lost many of our most dedicated cappers from the MCE era. Those remaining, mostly on MFI (Touch, Olympio...), would be doing it only as a favor to us and not also for themselves. That could make them less reliable, and we do not want to miss a thing! The French boards (Alliance, etc.) don't seem to have the technical know-how, as evidenced by Alizée's brief apperance on MTV last Feburary which Kiouty ended up having to cap. So yeah, I think this is a problem... one I've been trying to address for years now. It's a major reason why I urge cooperation among the forums (especially MFI, which many people seem hostile towards). We are going to need each other very soon!
Good news, two weeks ago I decided to buy my DVD player/burner (don't know the exact name in English) so now I can record anything from TV programs (in numeric TNT (http://www.tnt-gratuite.fr/)!) to HDD, DVD ram and DVD R & RW (I only had the ones of my PCs but with no tuner, etc). The only problem will be to convert that to a PC video format (avi, mpg, etc). I've made some successful DivX conversions but that's all what I know right now and DivX isn't great!
Also, I'm not fond on TV as a hobby, I barely watch it, especially TF1 and M6! So you (huge encyclopedia fans like RMJ or Snatcher) better alert me when Alizée is programmed on any future show. Yeah, that beats everything! I'm the French here and you'll tell me what's on on French TV. Haha! :D :D. I mean I never buy/read TV program magazines so you'll surely know before me (via AF and MFI forums) when she's on a show...
Now about copyrights, I don't know much about this. Will I be really allowed to post that on the internet, while it's all new, etc? :confused:
Anyway, it'd still be great if you know other French people to do it. But I'll try what I can.
to HDD, DVD ram and DVD R & RW (I only had the ones of my PCs but with no tuner, etc). The only problem will be to convert that to a PC video format (avi, mpg, etc).
Excusez-moi mais... why do you need to convert anything ?
Those DVD recorders should record into MPEG2 format directly from DVB stream. It should be fully compliant as is. If DVD player can play it, PC can 100% sure play it. No conversions needed.
What do you see on the disc if you record something ? (if you look at it on computer).
Now about copyrights, I don't know much about this. Will I be really allowed to post that on the internet, while it's all new, etc? :confused:
Alizée wouldn't care since it's free promotion for her.
TV companies generally don't care cause they can't stop it. And it doesn't really hurt them anyway.
But I wouldn't worry about it anyways. Since if you want, no one will know that it was you who originally shared it.
And there's been cappers all the time and non of them has gotten into trouble really. And most of them even have tags on their videos so they'd be easy to track to them.
lefty12357
01-13-2007, 06:24 PM
Now about copyrights, I don't know much about this. Will I be really allowed to post that on the internet, while it's all new, etc? :confused:
My guess is that recording the TV performance for your own viewing is OK, but to share or distribute it publicly would be an infringement on the copyright. I think the rules are different if you are a journalist doing some kind of news report.
By the way, does anybody know if Alizée has ever attempted to write lyrics or music, or commented on the subject? Has she learned to play a musical instrument? Just wondering...
aFrenchie
01-13-2007, 06:50 PM
What do you see on the disc if you record something ? (if you look at it on computer).
They are standard VOB files of course but those are gigantic, especially to upload on the net!!! Well I know you can find those files in the Alizée archives though.
By the way, here's my hardware:
http://www.panasonic.fr/servlet/PB/menu/1240033_l3/index.html
My guess is that recording the TV performance for your own viewing is OK, but to share or distribute it publicly would be an infringement on the copyright.
That's what I fear. But well, it's been done already like RMJ says. Maybe I shouldn't tell what I'm going to do in forums and the like :D
Canuck
01-14-2007, 01:30 AM
They are standard VOB files of course but those are gigantic, especially to upload on the net!!! Well I know you can find those files in the Alizée archives though.
By the way, here's my hardware:
http://www.panasonic.fr/servlet/PB/menu/1240033_l3/index.html
That's what I fear. But well, it's been done already like RMJ says. Maybe I shouldn't tell what I'm going to do in forums and the like :D
As time progresses I am sure that it'll be organized. I'd just like to give my thanks to the senior members and everyone who is concerned on helping others to see the latest alizée tv preformances when they come out. And to know certain dates, francophones from this site could check out A.A. for certain dates when they know she will be preforming. Im still learning french.I know the tenses but my vocabulary is missing a lot of words and am far far from fluent but i can read a bit so i shall try as well :)
Le Parrain
01-14-2007, 05:20 AM
all this french channel talk.
i have a french channel with comcast but i cant watch it sadly. even though i wouldnt be able to understand it, id watch it if i was bored and stuff.
aFrenchie, the VOB files are what we're gonna want. Yeah, they're huge, but only the best for Alizée!
They are standard VOB files of course but those are gigantic, especially to upload on the net!!!
Yes, and that's exactly what we want ! Only the best is barely good enough for her.
If they are too big for you to upload then simply send them on DVD to someone who will do it (the someone will gladly pay the costs).
The most important thing, however, is to save them all. Everything you can, save them at highest possible quality. Because, like you see, the biggest mistake in the past is that we do not have good quality video clips from big part of her career.
It would be awesome if someone had access to high definition channels like M6 HD and would be able to record them, too. That would be the dream.
By the way, here's my hardware:
http://www.panasonic.fr/servlet/PB/menu/1240033_l3/index.html
It looks quite good. :)
Have practice with it and learn to use it fluently, so there won't be trouble when you need to record her. :) And always, record her with the highest possible quality settings.
You can always make lower quality file out of HQ file but you can't do it vice versa.
aFrenchie
01-14-2007, 09:11 AM
aFrenchie, the VOB files are what we're gonna want. Yeah, they're huge, but only the best for Alizée!
Still, I don't know if the highest recording mode is the most reasonable. If you look at this pic from my previous link above, I suppose the VOB sizes will vary a lot:
http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/3661/tempsze7.gif
Note their mistake: in the first parentheses, they should say DVD-R 4.7 Go and not "disque dur" (verified on my manual but obvious, of course)
It would be awesome if someone had access to high definition channels like M6 HD and would be able to record them, too. That would be the dream.
I have 18 chanels in numeric TNT (maybe that's what you're talking about) and M6 is one of them of course:
http://www.tnt-gratuite.fr/ (sorry for the French page)
I can tell you the video quality is absolutely excellent!!!
It looks quite good. :)
I paid it 499 €. Should be good I think...
Have practice with it and learn to use it fluently, so there won't be trouble when you need to record her. :)
I've had no problem until now, except when I lost some chapter marks once on the DVD (I recorded first on HDD) but at least the whole movie was there :D
Still, I don't know if the highest recording mode is the most reasonable.
I think it probably is. An hour per single-layer DVD is standard. Though maybe you could also get away with that 2-hour SP mode. But certainly nothing below that.
Still, I don't know if the highest recording mode is the most reasonable. If you look at this pic from my previous link above, I suppose the VOB sizes will vary a lot:
Nah, it's excatly what you want. :) You want it full quality. Equal to DVD quality.
But like said, the size isn't problem. If you can't upload it, then we use other method to get it on the net.
But the important thing is to have the master record to be as good as possible. You can always make smaller files out of it for special purposes. And for example, you can make AVI file out of it and upload it while you mail the original copy of VOB to someone who can upload it easier. Then we'd get the file right away on the net and the full quality version in couple days.
1 hour for a disc sounds good. The performances lasts only few minutes anyways. And even the interviews are rather short usually. Any interview could fit on DVD.
And since you have HDD in it, too, even longer record is temporarily possible (in case you don't know exactly when she is gonna appear). Then just cut the Lili part and add to DVD (with full quality).
I have 18 chanels in numeric TNT (maybe that's what you're talking about) and M6 is one of them of course:
http://www.tnt-gratuite.fr/ (sorry for the French page)
I can tell you the video quality is absolutely excellent!!!
I think you have the normal M6. (not sure tho since it doesn't say on the site.. or atleast I didn't notice)
The channel what I meant is called M6 HD. The HD stands for High Definition (Haute Définition). And it offers quality that is superior compared to DVD. HD channels has resolution of 1920x1080 or 1280x720 (when DVD and normal digital TV has resolution of 720x576). Same quality that is offered by Blu-Ray and HD-DVD. One second of HD format takes roughly 30Go space.
TF1 HD and M6 HD is supposed to start in this month (few days ago actually):
http://www.hdnumerique.com/actualite/articles/08012007-tf1-hd-et-m6-hd-arrivent-officiellement-sur-canalsat-le-10-janvier.html
aFrenchie
01-14-2007, 10:44 AM
I think it probably is. An hour per single-layer DVD is standard. Though maybe you could also get away with that 2-hour SP mode. But certainly nothing below that.
The SP mode seems to be the default mode when I put the unit on (or was it only the last one I used?). I'll have to make some tests anyway and see if the quality is 2x better in XP and which is the difference in file size. Think, if the VOB is already enormous in SP and the XP mode simply doubles the size while the video quality isn't that better! :eek:
Anyway, for small vids like songs and interviews are, I'll surely use XP indeed...
The channel what I meant is called M6 HD. The HD stands for High Definition (Haute Définition). And it offers quality that is superior compared to DVD. HD channels has resolution of 1920x1080 or 1280x720 (when DVD and normal digital TV has resolution of 720x576). Same quality that is offered by Blu-Ray and HD-DVD. One second of HD format takes roughly 30Go space.
TF1 HD and M6 HD is supposed to start in this month (few days ago actually)
Ok, I haven't that (yet). Anyway, "TNT" that I have now is already excellent compared to the "diffusion hertzienne" (don't know in English). Wiki (http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/T%C3%A9l%C3%A9vision_hertzienne) (read about TAT and TNT)
The SP mode seems to be the default mode when I put the unit on (or was it only the last one I used?). I'll have to make some tests anyway and see if the quality is 2x better in XP and which is the difference in file size. Think, if the VOB is already enormous in SP and the XP mode simply doubles the size while the video quality isn't that better! :eek:
Anyway, for small vids like songs and interviews are, I'll surely use XP indeed...
Using XP instead of SP does not double the quality. Even tho, the file size is doubled. But it will be higher quality anyways. Higher bitrate (that is what those XP and SP changes) means that you will have more room to work on. Like for example if there is very fast moving scene, if the bitrate is too low, it will cause blocking, the image will become blocky and very unaccurate. It will loose it's details. Higher bitrate allows more data to written on those fast scenes so the movement can be much more smoother and very accurate.
Ok, I haven't that (yet). Anyway, "TNT" that I have now is already excellent compared to the "diffusion hertzienne" (don't know in English). Wiki (http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/T%C3%A9l%C3%A9vision_hertzienne) (read about TAT and TNT)
TNT = Digital television/broadcast ( it uses standard called DVB, which is short for Digital Video Broadcast )
TAT = Analogic television/broadcast
The stream you get from TNT is equal to DVD. In France, it's 720x576 pixels, 25 frames per second, encoded in MPEG2 (MPEG4 is possible).
aFrenchie
01-14-2007, 03:23 PM
Oddly enough, I'm back to topic while in the DVD topic again: I've just recorded a reportage in the evening news about Jacquou le Croquant, with excerpts of the movie, interviews of L. Boutonnat and two actors. It lasts 2:36 and I made it in SP mode: the VOB is 165,380,096 bytes!!! Actually two VOBs:
http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/2374/jacquougd8.gif
The image format is 720x576 indeed.
I could try to upload that if you want to see the quality (and the reportage!) and me to train before Alizée's back ;). What's the best, rapidshare.de, others? I never used that size of file... I still can upload it on one of my ISP accounts though, but I'd prefer to keep anonymous! :D
guldebrett
01-14-2007, 03:31 PM
The best I've found is http://www.mediafire.com
Mediafire has no upload limit, no download limit, no file size limitation and is very easy to use. It tells you how much time before the upload is finished and shows you how many people downloaded your file(s).
If you go to their webpage you'll see everything about them on their first page. Hope this helps.
Indeed, Mediafire is probably the best at the moment, though some people find their upload speed a bit slow. http://www.sendspace.com/ is another option.
aFrenchie
01-14-2007, 05:28 PM
Ok, I've launched Mediafire and it was very easy indeed. I'll post the link later...
aFrenchie
01-14-2007, 06:52 PM
Looks like Mediafire has crashed not far from the end for some reason :(. I haven't even understood the message. I'll try again tomorrow....
Actually two VOBs:
The smaller VOB is usually menu item or contains copyright infos and stuff like that. In your case, the menu is most likely. VIDEO_TS.VOB is the first file that gets played when you put DVD in player.
The image format is 720x576 indeed.
I could try to upload that if you want to see the quality (and the reportage!) and me to train before Alizée's back ;). What's the best, rapidshare.de, others? I never used that size of file... I still can upload it on one of my ISP accounts though, but I'd prefer to keep anonymous! :D
Of course, when the time is right and you want to upload Lili stuff... there's always our own Alizée server for them, with FTP uploads and everything... you might recognize it already, 1alizee.com . ;)
Ifyou can't get the mediafire to work, you can try rapidshare.com too. It should be working quite ok.
aFrenchie
01-15-2007, 11:06 AM
Here's the file: http://www.mediafire.com/?1ydmkzqyyiw
(you'll need winrar to extract the VOB)
Tell me what you think of the video quality. Next time I have something short to record, I'll try the XP mode that should double the size...
About the reportage:
- When talking about Boutonnat, the news speaker tells about his work for M. Farmer but not a word about Alizée (expected though).
- In the beginning of the reportage, they alternate excerpts from the TV series in 1969 (see my post about this here (http://moi-alizee.us/forums/showthread.php?p=24872#post24872)) and excerpts from the Boutonnat movie. They're easy to recognize, the TV series is in 4/3 format (and a bit old image) while the movie is in 16/9...
Downloading it... tho, it's gonna take some while since mediafire is really slow for me at the moment. :(
I downloaded the file but seem to be having some major problems with it. The sound starts getting very out of sync in Media Player Classic, and VLC just plays the first few seconds before skipping around for a moment and then stopping completely. Maybe RMJ could shed some more light on this?
aFrenchie
01-15-2007, 02:28 PM
I downloaded the file but seem to be having some major problems with it. The sound starts getting very out of sync in Media Player Classic, and VLC just plays the first few seconds before skipping around for a moment and then stopping completely. Maybe RMJ could shed some more light on this?
That's what all VOB files always do for me, I mean even the ones on standard DVDs that I've bought, but I thought that you all had a solution to read them since I always heard you can... I can read them only with my DVD player (PowerDVD), still, only in the standard way from the DVD.
Can you read a VOB file from a commercial DVD in MPC or VLC yourself?
If you want to test that, here are the other files (attached), burn them with the huge VOB on a DVD-RW (all files must be in a folder named "VIDEO_TS" from the root) and you should have no problem to see the movie with your DVD player.
Could it be a region format issue?
Yes, I can confirm that the sound is bit off sync on the file. But it's not something really to worry about right now. It's fixable. Tho, it's better if we can find solution to this problem...
First thing that came to my mind was, how did you get the VOB file from the DVD ? Simply copy pasted it to your computer and send it ?
Because, I believe that is the problem. VOB file on DVD doesn't necessary have all the required information about syncing video and sound correctly. DVD is much more complicated thing. Like you noticed yourself, if you add those other files, the problem gets fixed. It is clear proof that there is some info on them that is needed for syncing the VOB file correctly. So, copy pasting just the VOB file isn't good solution.
So, let's try solution for this problem.... Download this program (DVD Decrypter):
http://www.afterdawn.com/software/video_software/dvd_rippers/dvd_decrypter.cfm
It is excellent program for extracting videos from DVD. It can extract everything, or simply chapter by chapter. Or even just subtitles (or any stream) if you want so !
1. When you have it installed, open the program and put the DVD in the DVD drive (and make sure you have right drive selected in program if you have more than one DVD drive).
2. In the program, go to mode menu and select IFO.
3. Look at the right side of the program. It has tab called Input. It should show all the content of the DVD. You should see entry called VTS_01, which is pretty much the same as the VOB you uploaded. If you click the litte + sign it will extend the file tree (it might be extended already, so you may not see the + sign) to show what that VTS_01 file has inside it. It should have entries called PGC1, PGC2 and so on. Choose the one that looks right (is about 2:11 minutes long).
4. When the PGC file is selected, look at left side of the program. Select destination dir where you want it to extracted. And then click the icon below it that has image of DVD and hard drive. It should start extracting the file.
5. Done.
6. Go and try out the VOB file you got this way. Maybe it works better.
aFrenchie
01-15-2007, 03:18 PM
First thing that came to my mind was, how did you get the VOB file from the DVD ? Simply copy pasted it to your computer and send it ?
I copied it to my HDD and uploaded it.
But I know that all VOB files I tried to read directly from any standard DVDs in MPC, VLC, BSplayer, etc, always gave me the same result than the one Snatcher described. Now I wonder if the VOB files you're used to read in those applications are real VOB format or if they wouldn't only have that extension? Try to open a VOB file from a DVD you bought in MPC for ex.
I'm going to try this program you linked but I doubt it will work since it seems to only remove protection. I know the DVDs I create are not protected and I also know that I can't read a VOB file even from not encrypted DVDs in MPC and others...
Can you read a VOB file from a commercial DVD in MPC or VLC yourself?
Yes. This is the first time I've encountered a problem like this. Both RMJ and myself have now made working DVD images with the files you provided, and are now trying to figure out how to get a working vob file from them. Usually for us all that we'd need to do is copy them like you did. That's not working. Another even better alternative is to rip them with DVD Decrypter. We tried that and it didn't work either. Very strange. We'll keep trying and let you know when we find anything...
aFrenchie
01-15-2007, 03:34 PM
I tried with DVD Decrypter and it created the same file on my HDD than the one I uploaded (I used the "comp" command under Dos). That's what I expected, it's only for protection and there were none.
Now I'm pretty sure it's a region issue. France is region 2. Maybe MPC and all other programs just don't support those region vob files?!
Those I create and all those I bought must be region 2....
Na, it's not a Region issue. I've played plenty of region 2 files and never encountered this. Besides, Ronny's in Europe, same region as you. MPC plays the file fine when it's on the DVD. It's only when isolated do the problems start showing up.
Region codes has nothing to do with it.
And since it's your record, it's region free unless you specifically add it some region.
And the DVD Decrypter isn't just for decrypting. It's multipurpose tool. The decrypting is just one of it's features (and it's most important feature when dealing with retail DVDs).
aFrenchie
01-15-2007, 04:10 PM
Ok, you're right, it's not a region issue apparently.
Weirdest thing is that it always did that for me. I don't remember one VOB that worked in any other applis than a DVD player. And I mean even from the DVD with all other files (I just tried that again) while it seems to solve the problem for you!
Hey, while we need to think about this problem... Could you make small clips using XP and SP modes and upload them ? So we could later study what's the difference.
The clip you uploaded seemed to be little soft so your recorder must have re-encoded it. I'd like to see what the XP clip would look like. It might be direct copy of the digital stream.
I think I know the problem for this but I just need to find the right tool. I haven't dealt with problem like this in long time. :) And I haven't slept in long time either. :)
bt_bird_90
01-15-2007, 04:46 PM
Sleep is overrated anyways, just like nutrition.
Running the files through VOB2MPG (http://www.videohelp.com/tools?tool=VOB2MPG) seems to solve most problems, though the playback is still a tiny bit wonky. We'll keep looking into this, though yeah, in the meantime it would be cool to see a small XP sample. If it's a direct stream copy mode, it might even not have these same playback issues.
aFrenchie
01-15-2007, 05:15 PM
Just recorded a 45sec clip, burnt it and it still won't open in BSplayer for me (nor MPC, VLC, etc)
I still can upload it if you want, in case it works for you, and at least to compare the quality. Btw, how was the SP quality?
Yes, please do upload it along with the other little files on the DVD (I'll probably need them to fix the file). The SP quality wasn't bad, though like RMJ mentioned it was pretty clearly re-encoded. We're hopping XP may not do that. If so, the quality will be much better without the file sizes actually being that much greater. If it's just an increase in bitrate while still processing the files in the same way, then it's probably not necessary.
aFrenchie
01-15-2007, 06:11 PM
Here it is: http://www.mediafire.com/?4zzgyjruffm
Due to the flashy decor and all the people dancing, all images in this clip are very multicolored, it should be a good sample to test the mode (or is it not?)
Thanks aFrenchie, got it. It's getting a bit late for more technobabble now, so we'll continue this tomorrow shall we?
Thanks aFrenchie. Downloading it now. .)
And the speed of mediafire seems to be back to normal, too. :) (250k/Bs, and I think it's gapped to that. If I start multiple downloads, I get up to 950kB/s total )
I was just checking the file and umm.... Are you sure you recorded it with different (XP) mode ? Because it uses excatly same bitrate as the earlier clip. :blink:
If they were same lenght, they'd be same size aussi.
Now when I think of it... 9.8MB/s bitrate is pretty much max for DVD video. Did you use th e XP mode in both ?
aFrenchie
01-16-2007, 10:13 AM
If they were same lenght, they'd be same size aussi.
Oops you're right. 1st one, 2mn36 (156sec): 165,380,096 - 2nd one, 45sec: 52,080,640. Looks like about the same proportion...
I'm sure I've selected XP before recording on the HDD. But I've done exactly the same that I'm used to do when copying on the DVD. I probably had to force XP there too and it must have used SP as default again... I'll burn the clip again later (still on my hdd) and make sure I can choose the mode for the DVD independently of the HDD. Hopefully, you'll be able to compare the exact same clip in 2 different modes! :)
guldebrett
01-16-2007, 11:29 AM
This probably has nothing to do with your discussion but I use AnyDVD to decrypt and copy the .VOB files to my hard drive and use WinDVD to view them. I then used Adobe Premiere Elements to make single performance VOB video file out of the bigger VOB files. Only once did have a audio timing problem and that was with Alizee singing "Ca Va Pa.." Inevitably, I had to fix it in Premiere Elements by separating the audio and video tracks and moving the audio forward a bit. But I've never had a problem with most VOB files, only a few video glitches at the beginning of some of the VOB files that I made but that was due to the processor being busy with other services. I solved the problem of glitching by shutting down all non-essential services and programs running in the background and then making the VOB file.
Just my two bits.
Ok, I had now chance to try out the software (VOB2MPG (http://www.videohelp.com/tools?tool=VOB2MPG)) that Snatcher mentioned last night ( I couldn't try it out last night since I didn't had .net Framework 2.0 installed and it needs reboot... which was unacceptable last night).
It does do the trick. I managed to fix both files with simple running it. Took few seconds to complete and I had two MPG files that played well on MPC and WMP (which is huge success!). I don't have VLC installed so I couldn't confirm Snatcher's problem with it... Maybe later...
The sync seemed to be very good on mpg files.
aFrenchie
01-16-2007, 12:37 PM
I've been able to select the XP mode specifically for the DVD indeed, then launched the copy of yesterday's clip (made in XP on the HDD, I verified that in its properties) and I still have a file about the same size on the DVD: 52,217,856 (instead of 52,080,640). To be sure, I do it again, this time in SP mode again, and the file is 52,080,640 again!!!
I don't understand... I even wonder if my two clips aren't in XP modes anyway. According to this pic that I already posted:
http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/3661/tempsze7.gif
If you do the math: 45sec is 1/80 of 1 hour (3600sec). If you multiply 52,217,856 * 80 = 4,177,428,480, that's close to 4.7 GB... Same for the first Jacquou clip...
Well, now I must say that all I've done until now with this machine was by intuition in all the menus. Now maybe I should open the manual and read it! :D
Ok, I had now chance to try out the software (VOB2MPG (http://www.videohelp.com/tools?tool=VOB2MPG)) that Snatcher mentioned last night
Too bad for VOB2MPG: the setup wants me to upgrade my .net Framework version and last time I did that, I had tons of problems in my system, I don't even remember how I sorted them out...
If you know any other progs doing the same convertion, I'd like it better :).
Well, now I must say that all I've done until now with this machine was by intuition in all the menus. Now maybe I should open the manual and read it! :D
Try what those other two modes does. LP and EP. Does they effect neither.
Too bad for VOB2MPG: the setup wants me to upgrade my .net Framework version and last time I did that, I had tons of problems in my system, I don't even remember how I sorted them out...
If you know any other progs doing the same convertion, I'd like it better :).
To put it simple, it's the only one. But since this program needs one button click to fix the file, I wouldn't even consider other softwares.
If you could find old version of it, it would need only framework 1.x instead of 2.0.
aFrenchie
01-16-2007, 02:57 PM
Try what those other two modes does. LP and EP. Does they effect neither.
Just tried again by selecting LP before copying and I have 52,080,640 again. Looks like the program ignores the mode I select for the DVD. That selection must be only for recording directly to the DVD while copying takes into account the mode recorded on the HDD. Strange though. And that doesn't explain why the size of Jacquou looks like it's XP too on the DVD, yet in SP on the HDD (I verified its properties too)
I'll have to see that in the manual but it's huge and I'm quite lazy right now :D.
I'm bit lost now... Is the sample you send XP or SP ?
And yea, I don't think those options effects when you are copying from HDD to DVD and vice versa. They are just recording settings (or atleast I'd assume so).
aFrenchie
01-16-2007, 04:54 PM
I'm bit lost now... Is the sample you send XP or SP ?
I don't know myself! :D
What I can tell you is that if I read their properties on the HDD:
- Jacquou is recorded in SP
- the 45 sec clip is recorded in XP
BUT I don't know what's done exactly when I burn each of them on the DVD. In both cases, according to their size / duration, it seems that they are both in XP (do you agree with my calculation above?). Well the size of Jacquou should be a bit larger though, around 203 MB.
When doing tests with the 45 sec clip, I had the same size when selecting either SP, XP or LP, so it seems that the program takes into account the mode recorded on the HDD when copying. But why was the Jacquou clip size about between SP and XP on the DVD?
I'm here myself (before I open the manual) :D
I think we should just buy aFrenchie a video capture card... i will throw in at least $50 on it. he deserves a gift from us (or me at least) anyway.
edit:
i have an anonymous FTP setup at alizeeamerica.com (no login info needed) if you have an ftp client, you can connect there and upload as much as you want.. it will work on the main domain as soon as i migrate the website to the new server.
if you have any problems, just disable passive mode on your ftp client
aFrenchie
01-16-2007, 05:01 PM
I think we should just buy aFrenchie a video capture card... i will throw in at least $50 on it. he deserves a gift from us (or me at least) anyway.
Hehe thanks for the offer, but I wouldn't want to learn another device again :D
Anyway the image quality I uploaded is excellent for me (from DVD or once edited). What do you think of them???
oh yeah they look great :)
i just want to make it as easy as possible for you, if you need me to buy you some blank dvds or something let me know :)
aFrenchie
01-16-2007, 05:19 PM
i just want to make it as easy as possible for you, if you need me to buy you some blank dvds or something let me know
That's kind of you Brad! But it's not a problem for me, thank you :)
And maybe I'll have absorbed all the manual and will master the recorder before Alizée's back. Anyway I think the result is good enough already...
Umm, the quality is pretty good but it's not as good as it should be.
The shorter clip was maybe tiny bit better than the longer. At least it looked bit sharper.
But they both seems to have visible artifacts. I dunno if the broadcast was bad (too high compress) or what caused that... maybe it's just the re-encoding.
You should really try out settings lil more to see if you can get the image sharper. Try to record directly to DVD with XP settings enabled.Then we can't be sure that the HDD -> DVD transfer won't effect the quality.
cane17
01-16-2007, 10:53 PM
I have the setups and people i know to rec live videos of her and put it on here but the only thing i don't have is French T.V. Networks.lol but ill be ready when she comes on MTV,VH1 and Fuse maybe.:)
aFrenchie
01-17-2007, 12:32 PM
Try to record directly to DVD with XP settings enabled.Then we can't be sure that the HDD -> DVD transfer won't effect the quality.
Here's a new clip I've recorded directly on the DVD in XP mode:
http://www.mediafire.com/?3nnthn2tgmy
(you should recognize Laurent Boyer of "Graines de Stars" introducing the singer Emma Daumas)
The VOB file is 51,132,416 for 45 sec, so it seems to be the same than the 2nd one I sent, but around the right size for an hour on a DVD-R 4.7 (XP).
Merciiii
Downloading it right now. :)
Got it. Looks nice. VOB2MPG worked again. But... I can't really tell much difference in quality among any of these three samples. Maybe this one looked a little bit better, but I'm not sure. And they're all around the same file size too. RMJ?
Yea, the quality is about the same, maybe even tiny bit better than in other two. The first clip might be tiny bit lower quality than the two others. What I think we see is just variation in the TV broadcasts. They aren't always sent at same quality settings, and especially since these 3 samples are from different channels. (altho, in first clip it might be that it was really recorded with different settings, with SP)
But I did compare the last clip to another clip from M6. It was captured by Olympio and it was captured from the same show (Jour J) some time ago (the latest Alizée clip). Olympio's clip is sharper, so I think the DVD recorder really does something to this clip. aFrenchie's clip seems to be streched in horizontal direction few pixels. That would explains the softness I told earlier. I don't know if the streching is caused by the recorder or was the image streched before broadcasting for some reason.
But anyways, the quality as good as it can get with this recorder I believe. And it's still good quality. It's not direct stream but well I guess better can't be done without capture card on PC.
But I'd say that when aFrenchie's should use this XP setting when recording. Since the file size is quite acceptable, it's exactly what I'd execpt it to be.
Also I noticed now, while going through it in VirtualDub, that there was interlace pattern in some parts of the video (I didn't notice earlier because ffdshow had deinterlace filter on). Could be possible that the dvd recorder makes (not perfect) deinterlacing before re-encoding it and that causes some softening, too, with that tiny strech that I mentioned already.
Here is two frames, one from aFrenchie's vid and one from Olympio's vid. Both from same channel and program, so I'd expect to see similar quality in them. These just to show what the recorder does to the image. It's not big difference, especially in moving image, but it exists. Especially notice left and right edge where the black starts. In Olympio's capture it is perfectly sharp as you'd expect it to be in digital image with high bitrate. aFrenchie's vid shows there clear softening that I'd say is caused by re-encoding.
http://www.3rdw.net/compare/jourj1.png
http://www.3rdw.net/compare/jourj2.png
But anyways, like I already said, the video is quite good quality overall. And since we solved the audio problem, too, I think we have nothing to worry about. I really wait to see the recorder in action. :)
Btw aFrenchie, what did they say about Jennifer Aniston ? And was there bigger clip of her ? And you don't happen to have it all on tape ? :p
aFrenchie
01-17-2007, 05:41 PM
The three clips look good for me, even the SP one, whose quality seems to be about the same... :confused:
Anyway, I hope that maybe I'll find better options when I decide to open the manual :)
About your frame RMJ, is it one picture you took randomly or did you have to find it? I can't seem to find that sort of glitches myself. Exemple:
http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/6767/captureyd6.jpg
Btw aFrenchie, what did they say about Jennifer Aniston ? And was there bigger clip of her ? And you don't happen to have it all on tape ? :p
Oops sorry, I can't tell you what they said after I stop the recording...
The three clips look good for me, even the SP one, whose quality seems to be about the same... :confused:
Anyway, I hope that maybe I'll find better options when I decide to open the manual :)
Yea, they are pretty much same quality all. I can see small differences, tho. But it can be just the broadcast that differs slightly.
I btw downloaded manual for that DVD recorder, gonna look into it later. To see if I can see anything interesting. :)
About your frame RMJ, is it one picture you took randomly or did you have to find it? I can't seem to find that sort of glitches myself. Exemple:
Ah, don't worry about those. They are normal interlace patterns. I didn't took that frame because of them, they just happened to be on it. I just wanted any frame to compare.
And if you haven't noticed them, you probably just have deinterlacing on. Which I had earlier, too. But the video has interlaced frames, even if you didn't notice them. :)
Oops sorry, I can't tell you what they said after I stop the recording...
Aww...
yeah i think they look great, audio sounds great too
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