Anthony's Analyses of Alizée's songs

[garçoncanadien]

I have found some beautiful analyses of Alizée's lyrics on the alliance; they are so incredibly insightful and give so much new meaning into the songs that I wanted to share them with you. The following are translations from the original French - all original documents courtesy of Anthony.

A contre-courant (http://moi-alizee.us/forums/showthread.php?p=38517#post38517)

Abracadabra (http://moi-alizee.us/forums/showthread.php?t=1688)

Amélie m'a dit (http://moi-alizee.us/forums/showthread.php?p=38518#post38518)

Coeur déjà pris (http://moi-alizee.us/forums/showthread.php?t=1562)

L'émail a des ailes (http://moi-alizee.us/forums/showthread.php?t=1680)

Hey! Amigo! (http://moi-alizee.us/forums/showthread.php?t=1448)

L'Alizé (http://moi-alizee.us/forums/showthread.php?t=1689)

Moi Lolita (http://moi-alizee.us/forums/showthread.php?p=38521#post38521)

Parler tout bas (http://moi-alizee.us/forums/showthread.php?p=38522#post38522)

Tempête (http://moi-alizee.us/forums/showthread.php?p=38524#post38524)

J'en ai marre (caution this translation rated R for mature audiences only, also document not written by Anthony) (http://www.moi-alizee.us/forums/showpost.php?p=27863&postcount=40)

Gourmandises (http://moi-alizee.us/forums/showthread.php?t=1563)

Lui ou Toi (courtesy of Homer) (http://moi-alizee.us/forums/showthread.php?p=41431)

[garçoncanadien]

all analyses in known existence have now been translated. if you find another one, let me know :D

[CFHollister]

all analyses in known existence have now been translated. if you find another one, let me know :D

Awsome. Thanks garçon! :D

[Chommpers]

Awesome thanks for posting been fun to check out what some of the songs mean. My french is not very good so I cant understand the songs to well. I just like the sound of it.

[Deus_Ex]

I have found some beautiful analyses of Alizée's lyrics on the alliance; they are so incredibly insightful and give so much new meaning into the songs that I wanted to share them with you. The following are translations from the original French - all original documents courtesy of Anthony.

A contre-courant (http://moi-alizee.us/forums/showthread.php?p=38517#post38517)

Abracadabra (http://moi-alizee.us/forums/showthread.php?t=1688)

Amélie m'a dit (http://moi-alizee.us/forums/showthread.php?p=38518#post38518)

Coeur déjà pris (http://moi-alizee.us/forums/showthread.php?t=1562)

L'émail a des ailes (http://moi-alizee.us/forums/showthread.php?t=1680)

Hey! Amigo! (http://moi-alizee.us/forums/showthread.php?t=1448)

L'Alizé (http://moi-alizee.us/forums/showthread.php?t=1689)

Moi Lolita (http://moi-alizee.us/forums/showthread.php?p=38521#post38521)

Parler tout bas (http://moi-alizee.us/forums/showthread.php?p=38522#post38522)

Tempête (http://moi-alizee.us/forums/showthread.php?p=38524#post38524)

J'en ai marre (caution this translation rated R for mature audiences only, also document not written by Anthony) (http://www.moi-alizee.us/forums/showpost.php?p=27863&postcount=40)

Gourmandises (http://moi-alizee.us/forums/showthread.php?t=1563)

Lui ou Toi (courtesy of Homer) (http://moi-alizee.us/forums/showthread.php?p=41431)

so what's the general consensus for the actual meaning of I'm fed up?

[CFHollister]

so what's the general consensus for the actual meaning of I'm fed up?

Make sure you mean "I'm Fed Up" as opposed to "J'en ai marre" (I'm Fed Up is not a translation of J'en ai marre). I'd say that there might be some meaningful discussion on the interpretation of JEAM, while IFU is just an English version which preserves some of the surface content of JEAM while any real meaning is thrown out the window in order to make it sound good (rhyme and all that) in English.

[Jesse78]

Whoever came up with this analyses for J`en ai marre is a crackhead.That`s not what she`s singing about....She`s just fed up with the bullsh*t that`s going on around her and not in that nasty kind of way it was interpreted....Unbelievable.

[espire]

That's the way you're looking at it. Don't doubt the crazy yet genius ideas that go through Mylène's head, she is amazingly apt at allowing both a clean and a dirty meaning to be clearly visible.

P.S. TWO HUNDREDTH POST! W00T!

[Geech]

I do argee that is a little over the top but some people can be very very creative and I'm going to stick with that. What he thinks is way over the top but none the less I guess it would make since in a really weird way. But me personal think that she is just fed up with everything around here and we'll leave it at that.

[Deepwaters]

It's only a little over the top. He may find too many hidden meanings in too many lines, but the general idea of masturbating in the bathtub is certainly there. I am also not convinced that the song has quite the rejection-of-men theme that Anthony is giving it, and honestly that isn't necessary; all one needs as a motivation is to be horny and between relationships.

If you want further indication, watch the JEAM dance once more with that idea in mind, and look where Alizée's hands go during certain parts of the song.

[espire]

Heh, Deepwaters, gettin' a nice close look, eh?

[Deepwaters]

Heh, Deepwaters, gettin' a nice close look, eh?

Heh. I could say something here, but something tells me I've probably gone too far already. ;)

[fsquared]

Yes, I also found the full-on X-rated analysis a little over the top (i.e., not parsimonious in the sense of Occam's razor), e.g., the stuff about the pubic hair and female ejaculation seemed sort of unnecessary. But overall the general thrust (no pun intended) seemed reasonable. I also recall someone talking about the crocuses (and how they were some reference to Mylene) somewhere else (e.g. mf-international?), but I just can't remember what it was all about anymore.

I've often wondered about what contexts and mechanisms need to be in place for a listener to grasp a double entendre or innuendo properly.
When I heard 50 Cent's "Candy Shop" (I'm embarrassed to say in the romantic dinner scene in "Date Movie"), where he says "I'll take you to the candy shop/I'll let you lick the lollipop", I got to thinking about why this sounds filthy, and what kind of frame of mind I have to put myself in in order to understand why it sounds filthy. I mean, he's not using any dirty words. It seems like he's not really even using any words that really have a commonly-understood double meaning (except perhaps "lick", which is still used literally but the subtext is that something sexual is being licked...but maybe my slang knowledge is out-of-date and "lollipop" has a known history before this song?). So, then, why is it clear that he's talking about...well, "gourmandises"? Somehow he (and the listener) have to construct the sexual metaphor, and then the meanings of the individual terms fall into place. Does this mean that we have to "be receptive" to the metaphor before it reveals itself to us, not just at the level of knowing double entendre word meanings, but at some sort of more global level?

BTW, Deepwaters, along those lines, in responding to your comment in the Nabokov thread about how the Gourmandises video makes you feel, I guess the appropriate response along these lines would be: hey, they're just having a pleasant dessert picnic on an extra-hot day (which means they have to be, um, lightly dressed), and playing a nice game of, um...tag (yeah, that's it, tag) and so all the rest of it is, of course, your active imagination filling in the gaps. :D :D :D

I vaguely recall some other thread (maybe on AF?) analyzing the hand gestures in JEAM at some length and concluding that the relevant gestures (think where she's kind of flapping her hands back and forth at hip level) are pretty standard flamenco moves. (That thread had animated GIFs and the whole works.) Are we talking about the same gesture here? Thanks!

[Deepwaters]

BTW, Deepwaters, along those lines, in responding to your comment in the Nabokov thread about how the Gourmandises video makes you feel, I guess the appropriate response along these lines would be: hey, they're just having a pleasant dessert picnic on an extra-hot day (which means they have to be, um, lightly dressed), and playing a nice game of, um...tag (yeah, that's it, tag) and so all the rest of it is, of course, your active imagination filling in the gaps. :D :D :D


My imagination, sir, is indeed very active, and requires little prompting. This serves me well in my chosen creative ventures, but does occasionally generate drawbacks. :cool:

Re the hands in JEAM, although the circular hand movements in the hollow of the hips is suggestive, I was thinking more of the positioning of her hands when they were resting on her body. There's nothing blatant (that would make the dance in very bad taste), but just a mildly naughty suggestiveness. You have to be thinking in terms of the lyrics' double-entendre to see the hint of masturbation, but even without that there's a subtle drawing of attention, along with the hip movements, that goes into making this an incredibly sexy dance. It's really quite well designed, because it does all this without being crude.

[fsquared]

My imagination, sir, is indeed very active, and requires little prompting. This serves me well in my chosen creative ventures, but does occasionally generate drawbacks. :cool:

Re the hands in JEAM, although the circular hand movements in the hollow of the hips is suggestive, I was thinking more of the positioning of her hands when they were resting on her body. There's nothing blatant (that would make the dance in very bad taste), but just a mildly naughty suggestiveness. You have to be thinking in terms of the lyrics' double-entendre to see the hint of masturbation, but even without that there's a subtle drawing of attention, along with the hip movements, that goes into making this an incredibly sexy dance. It's really quite well designed, because it does all this without being crude.

Well, after your post, I felt compelled to take on the onerous and thankless burden of scrutinizing a JEAM performance in painful detail to evaluate the veracity of your claim. :D I guess I could go either way on it, though I didn't really see it myself without your prompting. But maybe if I were a native French speaker, it would have stood out more?

Vaguely related to this, I noted on someone's Youtube comment to the original Madonna La Isla Bonita video that there were in fact some very suggestive motions in that video as well.

Also, I wanted to comment that there are a fair number of other songs that have female masturbation as their theme (of course the Divinyls' I Touch Myself, but also Britney Spears' Touch of my Hand, or Toni Braxton's You're Making Me High), so it's not like this interpretation would be ground-breakingly scandalous, right?

[garçoncanadien]

Mylène has music videos rated M for Mylène. i'll not name them specifically, interested people can search for them ;)

[fsquared]

Deepwaters,
OK, continuing my shouldering of the great burden, I inspected a clip of JEAM on Eurobest (with the long pants) and...I'm starting to see it. The problem is, of course, that I may never again be able to not see it. I also noticed something (which I suppose is easily ascribed to maintaining camera variety), but there were a fair number of head shots, which contributed to a bit of an "Ed Sullivan Show" effect (when Elvis first appeared on that show, his then-scandalous hip-swiveling was censored by showing him only above the waist) .

You know, one thing I thought of when I saw the beginning of the JEAM video was the striptease scene by Paz Vega in Sex and Lucia. I almost wondered if either inspired the other and/or there was a common source. Anyone else notice the resemblance?

[BlancZulu]

I've never totally believed in this analyses of the song. But the problem whith any analyses of a song is that: After reading the analyses it is extremely hard to form your own idea conserning the meaning.
"I may never again be able to not see it" (above).

Thats the strength and the drawback of our minds! We are always looking for connections.

[espire]

I think Mylène has just infected another thread :D

BlancZulu, you're right. It's hard to have your own interpretation anymore, which is why I occasionally just listen to the sound of her voice, not the words she sings. However, I can't say I dislike this interpretation!

[Deepwaters]

Just another nitpicky thing that's bothering me about Anthony's analysis:

"Qui ne roulent qu'à deuxà l'heure" implies someone going too slow -- not too fast. So I don't see how it could have the meaning he was giving it.

[Deepwaters]

Deepwaters,
The problem is, of course, that I may never again be able to not see it.

Sorry. :) But Mylène wrote the lyrics, I didn't.

Anyway, one should not confuse innocence with asexuality. In her performances, Alizée is a pagan at heart, at times quite strongly erotic, but innocent of any malice or crudity. She may well be that way as a person, too -- there are some indications. Why, aside from the lingering poisonous residue of puritanism, do we think that a person must not exist from the waist down in order to be innocent and pure?

There is nothing wrong with the double meaning of this song. If it had been treated more blatantly, it would have been kind of gross, but that would have been an aesthetic flaw, not a moral one. And in fact it was not treated blatantly; it's subtle, titillating, and nicely spicy. Very good work by both Mylène and Alizée.

[espire]

Just another nitpicky thing that's bothering me about Anthony's analysis:

"Qui ne roulent qu'à deuxà l'heure" implies someone going too slow -- not too fast. So I don't see how it could have the meaning he was giving it.

Perhaps she's fed up with people who, um, do it too slow to her, so she has to do it herself, if you get my drift.

[fsquared]

Sorry. :) But Mylène wrote the lyrics, I didn't.

Anyway, one should not confuse innocence with asexuality. In her performances, Alizée is a pagan at heart, at times quite strongly erotic, but innocent of any malice or crudity. She may well be that way as a person, too -- there are some indications. Why, aside from the lingering poisonous residue of puritanism, do we think that a person must not exist from the waist down in order to be innocent and pure?

There is nothing wrong with the double meaning of this song. If it had been treated more blatantly, it would have been kind of gross, but that would have been an aesthetic flaw, not a moral one. And in fact it was not treated blatantly; it's subtle, titillating, and nicely spicy. Very good work by both Mylène and Alizée.

Perhaps I should have added a :D or something. I never said not ever being able to avoid that interpretation was a bad thing ;).

Actually, so I think there was some difference between the March 1, 2003 performance and the Eurobest performance on this hand-gesture detail. Perhaps the dance evolved throughout its history. Maybe someone would be willing to take on a research project to examine all the videos and catalogue the changes. Can you imagine the title of the resulting writeup? Maybe "Evolution of Feminine Onanistic Innuendo in Contemporary Pop Music Choreography: A Case Study"...? :D

[CFHollister]

Maybe someone would be willing to take on a research project to examine all the videos and catalogue the changes. Can you imagine the title of the resulting writeup? Maybe "Evolution of Feminine Onanistic Innuendo in Contemporary Pop Music Choreography: A Case Study"...? :D

Check with RMJ to make sure he hasn't written that up already :D

[espire]

Wow, Alizée really does have her hands way closer on Eurobest! Any closer, and they'd be in her pants! Mystery solved.

[kdn]

But how old is the little girl in JEAM?

[espire]

If you're referring to Lili, she was 18 at the time. Good thing, too!

[garçoncanadien]

J'en ai marre analysis not done by Anthony ;)

[lefty12357]

I think this JEAM analysis (which is not Anthony's) is way over the top. I believe there is a reference to masturbation in the lyrics, but its not the main point of the song. I like Cooney's translations the best:

http://moi-alizee.us/forums/showthread.php?t=612

[espire]

While Cooney's interpretation is great, the problem with it is that it's an approximation between the basic one and the onanistic one. It's an excellent compromise between the two, but I think that one should personally decide between the two.

[Deepwaters]

I wouldn't put it that way, Espire. It's not necessary to decide between the two, because both are true. On one level, the song is about a bubble bath with a goldfish. On another, it's about masturbating in the bath. On both levels, it's about creating a pleasant environment and insulating oneself from troubles.

The dance is the same. It has the suggestive hand movements, including some I didn't mention like the ones where she seems to be stroking her body all over, but if you look at the same movements a different way, the suggestion is of fish fin movement, and in the bridge portion you can see her hands forming a fish tail.

[espire]

That's exactly what I meant, but I didn't say it right. I apologize. What I mean is that there are two distinct extreme interpretations, and a person has to choose where between the two, choosing how close to each one they are.

[lefty12357]

I should have also mentioned in my post that one should read aFrenchie's comments later on in the thread I referenced. It clears up a few things that one might not know having not lived in France:

aFrenchie's comments:
There's a children song in France that NOT ONE French child has missed and that is called "Colchiques dans les prés" ("Autumn crocus in the meadows"). Farmer obviously uses that song as a reference (she would hate that old tune now? ) and that would give in English: "In the meadows, (I'm fed up with) Autumn crocus"! Eh? why that when you don't know the old children song?

Quickly: "2 balles" has nothing to do with bullets, but your "worthless" idea is good though (see in the link above about this expression)

It was also pointed out that the French never use "2 balles" in reference to the male genitalia as did the person doing this analysis.

[Zack -Alizee Lover-]

Wow, Alizée really does have her hands way closer on Eurobest! Any closer, and they'd be in her pants! Mystery solved.

She was doing that because she knew Jérémy was watching her ;)

Please, accept ♪JEAM♪ for what it is,a cool song and not some kind of perv story.

[kdn]

accept ♪JEAM♪ for what it is,a cool song
I agree with Zack. And what it is is depend on the audience.

My question is How old are the song's target audience? If they are 13-14 yrs old kids, then the (extreme) analysis of JEAM is false and the guy who wrote it is a sick bastard.



BTW, thanks garcon for clear it out for Anthony.

[Deepwaters]

My question is How old are the song's target audience? If they are 13-14 yrs old kids, then the (extreme) analysis of JEAM is false and the guy who wrote it is a sick bastard.

How about if the target audience is BOTH 13-14 year olds, AND older, adult people? One meaning for the kids, another for the adults. In which case, neither interpretation is false, both are true.

I'm quite certain that's the case. (I'm also certain that plenty of 13-14 year olds can appreciate the adult version, too. Perhaps not 9-10 year olds.)

Let me ask this, though. Setting aside the question of whether it's an appropriate thing for preteens, what is there about the "adult" interpretation of J'en Ai Marre that is disturbing? Seriously, what? Why does Zack consider it a "perv story"?

Is this an unusual, twisted, or perverted form of sexuality? Hardly; it's something everyone has done from time to time (although perhaps not in the bubble-bath). Is it brutal, violent, cruel, or indicative of the ugly side of human nature? Not in the least. Is there anything nonconsensual going on? Is anyone getting hurt, either physically or emotionally? Again, no. About the worst you can say about it is that, compared to real sexuality in a relationship, it's trivial and not deeply satisfying. But in the context of creating a bubble to escape from all those obnoxious things on the list, so what?

[kdn]

This is from wiki (again):

A target audience is the primary group of people that something is aimed at appealing to.

So who is JEAM's target audience?

[espire]

Pop music's target audience is everybody. Pop stands for popular, doncha know.

[Zack -Alizee Lover-]

Pop music's target audience is everybody. Pop stands for popular, doncha know.

Yeh and Rock stands for Rocket.

[Deepwaters]

Pop music's target audience is everybody. Pop stands for popular, doncha know.

Agreed.

You know, I love just about every song Alizée has ever sung, and I'm a long way from 13 years old. (Never mind just how long. :p ) Not just in terms of sexuality, but also in other ways, philosophical meanings, hints of mysticism, historical reflection, personal trajedy, ideas of freedom, maturation, responsibility, these are not just bubble-gum kiddie songs.

I would also recommend getting used to the idea of her singing primarily for an adult audience, which I think will be the case from now on.

[Deepwaters]

Yeh and Rock stands for Rocket.

No. But Rocket rocks. :)

[kdn]

Yeah, pop songs can be about anything. But JEAM is one song, not pop music itself.

@DW: If it's false and many find it annoying, then it should be taken down.

[Deepwaters]

Yeah, pop songs can be about anything. But JEAM is one song, not pop music itself.


OK, but that JEAM has a sexual subtext of some kind is pretty obvious from the choreography. And the specific subtext is obvious from the lyrics.


@DW: If it's false and many find it annoying, then it should be taken down.

It's not false, and regarding the "annoying" part, I completely disagree. Art -- and also art criticism and interpretation -- should not be confined to the comfort zone.

[fsquared]

Yeh and Rock stands for Rocket.

Actually, rock is short for "rock 'n roll", which was, in the 50's a Black English slang term for....*drum roll*..."sex".
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_and_roll)
So....what are we to take from this? One driving force of artistic expression has always been transgression of norms and boundaries, especially the subversive kind of transgression that can can be deliciously and surreptitiously enjoyed by those "in the know", while at the same time not blatantly offending those who are ignorant (willfully or not) of the hidden undercurrents.

One way to appeal to "everybody" is to appeal to the least common denominator, which tends to generate truly insipid cookie-cutter commercial junk (and is pervasive in American popular media unfortunately). Another way is to embed multiple meanings, which a lot of the modern kid's films (e.g. Shrek) do by making lots of allusions to other movies for the amusement of the parents.

One way of "defusing" the double entendre is to literalize it. For instance, Chuck Berry's infamous "My Ding a Ling" (http://www.digitaldreamdoor.com/pages/lyrics2/nov_myding.html)
explicitly says that his "ding a ling" is some silver bells on a string in the first verse, thus making a literal interpretation of all the lyrics "plausible", even if it is obviously not the point. In my mind, the "poisson rouge" stuck on the JEAM costume serves the analogous purpose (and, possibly, the "bouge" instead of "rouge" as a further layer of indirection).

[Deepwaters]

I'll click on the close button then.

(Shrug.) That's your privilege.

[fsquared]

OK, but that JEAM has a sexual subtext of some kind is pretty obvious from the choreography. And the specific subtext is obvious from the lyrics.



It's not false, and regarding the "annoying" part, I completely disagree. Art -- and also art criticism and interpretation -- should not be confined to the comfort zone.

Agreed. kdn is also of course free to click on the close button if so desired.

The funny part is I didn't expect any controversy; it seemed as if all this discussion had taken place long ago, and it's just that we are having the same conversation over again. It suddenly (and with an odd delicious irony) dawned on me that it was a bit as if we were characters in an absurdist play, which would be named.....


"Waiting for Lili".


(With great apologies to Samuel Beckett: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waiting_for_Godot).

[dan]

How about if the target audience is BOTH 13-14 year olds, AND older, adult people? One meaning for the kids, another for the adults. In which case, neither interpretation is false, both are true.

@deepwaters: I'm pretty certain she's said precisely this in an interview.

Agreed. kdn is also of course free to click on the close button if so desired.

The funny part is I didn't expect any controversy; it seemed as if all this discussion had taken place long ago, and it's just that we are having the same conversation over again. It suddenly (and with an odd delicious irony) dawned on me that it was a bit as if we were characters in an absurdist play, which would be named.....


"Waiting for Lili".


(With great apologies to Samuel Beckett: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waiting_for_Godot).

@fsquared: I'm beginning to think you're right :eek: Hopefully Lili won't pull a Godot and no show.

[lissa15]

WOW i totally agree with jesse78 you are so off how corrupt is your mind man and were did you get all that:mad:

[lissa15]

and also wen she is in the tub thats a way for her to relax from stress

[Bigdan]

How about if the target audience is BOTH 13-14 year olds, AND older, adult people? One meaning for the kids, another for the adults. In which case, neither interpretation is false, both are true.

I'm quite certain that's the case. (I'm also certain that plenty of 13-14 year olds can appreciate the adult version, too. Perhaps not 9-10 year olds.)




You"re in the hearth of what, in my view, start the disagreement between Mylène et Alizée. There IS a double meaning in JEAM and some other song of Alizée. Mylène wrote it. And that the way she does in her own lyrics.( everybody know that in France).
Shes 's famous to have a very sexy and sexual content in her own songs.

In appears that Alizée was , maybe, not so happy with that in the end...

On the TV show you can see her moving and acting in a very provocative ( but classy) way...
In the Live Tour, you can see that she's seems more moderate, cause her audience is full of 10 to 13 ye boys and girls!!

So, double meaning is fun. But that's make a marketing problem.
Too hot for child.
Too childish for adult.

She was not comfortable with that. I thing that's why she stopped every thing.

[Bigdan]

How about if the target audience is BOTH 13-14 year olds, AND older, adult people? One meaning for the kids, another for the adults. In which case, neither interpretation is false, both are true.

I'm quite certain that's the case. (I'm also certain that plenty of 13-14 year olds can appreciate the adult version, too. Perhaps not 9-10 year olds.)




You"re in the hearth of what, in my view, start the disagreement between Mylène et Alizée. There IS a double meaning in JEAM and some other song of Alizée. Mylène wrote it. And that the way she does in her own lyrics.( everybody know that in France).
Shes famous to have a very sexy and sexual content in her own songs.

It appears that Alizée was , maybe, not so happy with that in the end...

On the TV show you can see her moving and acting in a very provocative ( but classy) way...
In the Live Tour, you can see that she's seems more moderate, cause her audience is full of 10 to 13 ye boys and girls!!

So, double meaning is fun. But that's make a marketing problem.
Too hot for child.
Too childish for adult.

She was not comfortable with that. I thing that's why she stopped every thing.

[Deepwaters]

That's interesting, Dan.

We were talking about Mylène earlier, and after that I went to YouTube and watched a whole bunch of Mylène's videos that I hadn't seen in a while. Then I came back here and watched a lot of Alizée. (An enjoyable way to spend a couple of hours.) Despite the fact that the music in each case was written by the same people, the feel of the performances is totally, totally different.

I started thinking about the differences between the two. And what I finally decided is that it's easier to point up the similarities, because there aren't many. Really, just two: both are very sexy, and both have good voices.

Somewhere else, I talked about Alizée's sexuality as including innocence, not by being non-sexual, but by being sexual without any ugly overtones, and with a way of conveying that sex is good and nobody has any business thinking otherwise. The expression I used was "sexuality before the Fall of Man." Well, Mylène definitely gives us sexuality after the Fall. Her sexiness is tainted with the idea of wrongdoing, spiced with sin, and made piquant with the forbidden. Alizée's is not. It's a pure pagan sexuality, as if Christian ideas about sex had never existed.

The differences between the two women probably meant that their collaboration had to come to an end eventually. As brilliant as Mylène is, she's not necessarily the best person to be writing songs for Alizée.

This kind of thought makes me more eager than ever to see what Alizée does with her new album, the first post-Mylène album.

[espire]

Remember, Mylène was simply looking for a Lolita. Alizée lost most of that image after MCE (they said it couldn't be done), so it was a matter of time before Mylène was finished with giving Alizée's career a jumpstart. Now, she's ready to take it on her own.

[lefty12357]

When I first heard that MF/LB were not going to be doing Alizée's new songs I was concerned at first. I am a fan of Mylene, but I think it was LB's music that I would miss the most.

But as time passes I am more and more excited to see what Alizée will do without them. I want to see Alizée the way she wants to be seen, without all the outside influences.

[fsquared]

That's interesting, Dan.

We were talking about Mylène earlier, and after that I went to YouTube and watched a whole bunch of Mylène's videos that I hadn't seen in a while. Then I came back here and watched a lot of Alizée. (An enjoyable way to spend a couple of hours.) Despite the fact that the music in each case was written by the same people, the feel of the performances is totally, totally different.

I started thinking about the differences between the two. And what I finally decided is that it's easier to point up the similarities, because there aren't many. Really, just two: both are very sexy, and both have good voices.

Somewhere else, I talked about Alizée's sexuality as including innocence, not by being non-sexual, but by being sexual without any ugly overtones, and with a way of conveying that sex is good and nobody has any business thinking otherwise. The expression I used was "sexuality before the Fall of Man." Well, Mylène definitely gives us sexuality after the Fall. Her sexiness is tainted with the idea of wrongdoing, spiced with sin, and made piquant with the forbidden. Alizée's is not. It's a pure pagan sexuality, as if Christian ideas about sex had never existed.

The differences between the two women probably meant that their collaboration had to come to an end eventually. As brilliant as Mylène is, she's not necessarily the best person to be writing songs for Alizée.

This kind of thought makes me more eager than ever to see what Alizée does with her new album, the first post-Mylène album.

Aha, I was kind of wondering what you meant when you referred to Alizée as "pagan" in your post a while back, and now your clarification in this post makes it more clear to me.

I was going to to write some speculations but then I realized they were exactly that (speculations) and thus probably superfluous.

[Killian]

I read the J'en ai Marre analysis and I am flabbergasted. I would never have seen it like that. Wow, just wow.:eek:

[fsquared]

Well, I think as many people have opined, the linked R-rated analysis is (in my mind anyway) clearly over the top and bordering on parody, but several essential points are there.

[espire]

Absolutely true, F^2. The R-rated one is simply showing the extreme to which you can go if you look that hard for the underlying theme. My interpretation of the song is right between the simple "I'm fed up" and the more interpreted, well, you know.

[fsquared]

You know what would really make the analyses in this thread complete? It would be really great if the French lyrics were put there along with the English translations in the line-by-line summaries. That would make it the canonical one-stop shopping for Anglophones who want to learn the lyrical content. Thoughts? Thanks!

[Jesse78]

Mylene is a sick crackhead.Why would she give such nasty lyrics to such a "innocent",adorable and cute being like Alizee. I`m glad Alizee is working alone this time.

[garçoncanadien]

i think the guy who wrote the analysis for j'en ai marre i translated is the sick one ;)

[Killian]

I have to agree, he took it a little far with that J'en Ai Marre analysis. I'm sorry I ever read that. I think, though, it was intented to be humerous, but just got a little out of hand.

[Kenjay!]

Wow french songs can be a tad dirty. I think shes just talking about all the sh** happening in her life although you never know.

[Killian]

Wow french songs can be a tad dirty. I think shes just talking about all the sh** happening in her life although you never know.

Remember two things.

1) Mylene wrote them not Alizée.

2) These are just one person's view of the meaning of the songs, Mylene/Alizée may never have intnended it to be interpreted like that.

Bear that in mind when reading them. (Paticularly the J'en Ai Marre one)

[Deepwaters]

1) Mylene wrote them not Alizée.


True, and I doubt Alizée suggested the masturbation idea. That sounds pure Mylène to me. However, I also seriously doubt that Alizée was as shocked or offended as some people on this thread have been once Mylène explained it and/or she figured it out for herself. She probably found it amusing. (I do, too.)


2) These are just one person's view of the meaning of the songs, Mylene/Alizée may never have intnended it to be interpreted like that.

Bear that in mind when reading them. (Paticularly the J'en Ai Marre one)

There are some other songs where I think the interpretation is more open to question. This one seems fairly obvious. For example, I'm not completely convinced (on reflection) that Coeur déjà pris is about a dead lover after all, although that's possible. And there's a theme of telepathic contact across separation in space and time to A contre-courant that no interpreter has identified yet.

[Tye]

Deepwaters, I at first found the analysis funny, but when I started reading further into it it kind of became awkward and I got feeling I have never had before. Not because of the idea of maturbation (it relieves stress, and has been shown to have benefits), but beacuse it had to do with Lili. I know she has had sex, but it was still weird.

Maybe it was because of the graphic terms ( I am not new to graphic terms, but still something bothered me), and the fact Lili sings it. Stuff like the "sperm in mouth" thing. I know this not unnatural and happens all the time with people, but it was weird.

The only way I could describe the awkward feeling is like being a dad, and having your daughter's maturbation and sex life explained to you in vivid detail. I know I shouldn't be disgusted and I am not, because it is just what humans do, but it really bothered me in a way I have never felt. Maybe it's because I feel a strong connection with Lili. A somewhat protective bond with Lili.

I am not uncormfortable about sex, but something about that analysis just made me feel awkward and somewhat sick which is weird because I have heard some pretty sick things about masturbation and sex.

[Killian]

^
Tye you hit the nail on the head, there. After reading that I didn't find it funny, yet, deep down, I knew that if it hadn't have been about a Lili song, I would have found it hilarious that someone would look that deep into it.

I never even really look at Lili in a very sexual way, in the first place. While, obviously she is very, very attractive, and it is only natural to feel attracted to her, I still don't very often think about her in that light. I more think about her in a relationship way. I know i'm not describing it well but I'm doing my best.

For example, if I looked at someone like Adriana Lima, I would see there beauty, and wouldn't see much else. I wouldn't feel anything other than sexual desire, but for Lili it is very different. While there is desire, a lot of it is non-sexual, most of it infact. But, at the same time, I find her just as attractive, if not more so, than Adriana Lima and whoever else you may imagine...

Sorry, I still didn't get my point across well..

But, does anyone else feel the same?

[Tye]

^
Tye you hit the nail on the head, there. After reading that I didn't find it funny, yet, deep down, I knew that if it hadn't have been about a Lili song, I would have found it hilarious that someone would look that deep into it.

I never even really look at Lili in a very sexual way, in the first place. While, obviously she is very, very attractive, and it is only natural to feel attracted to her, I still don't very often think about her in that light. I more think about her in a relationship way. I know i'm not describing it well but I'm doing my best.

For example, if I looked at someone like Adriana Lima, I would see there beauty, and wouldn't see much else. I wouldn't feel anything other than sexual desire, but for Lili it is very different. While there is desire, a lot of it is non-sexual, most of it infact. But, at the same time, I find her just as attractive, if not more so, than Adriana Lima and whoever else you may imagine...

Sorry, I still didn't get my point across well..

But, does anyone else feel the same?

Killian, I like you have a high respect for Lili.

Lili is very special to me and has influenced me a lot. Especially in regards to what I want to do and where I want to live. She has introduced me to a wonderful culture, and has made me so happy.

My connection and love for her is not of sexual desire ( not that she is not desirable). I feel like I am disrespecting her and violating her by thinking of her in a sexual way. I want to think of her as the wonderful person she is, and all the good accomplishments she has made. Not in a sexual way, because she deserves better.

[Killian]

My connection and love for her is not of sexual desire ( not that she is not desirable). I feel like I am disrespecting her and violating her by thinking of her in a sexual way. I want to think of her as the wonderful person she is, and all the good accomplishments she has made. Not in a sexual way, because she deserves better.

That is what I was trying to say, put into words that make sense.

I feel as if I am disrespecting her, even violating her privacy, and wouldn't want to do that to her, no matter what. I see beyond her outer beauty and into her inner.

"Beauty is only skin deep"...... Well, there's an exception to every rule ;).

[fsquared]

Tye,
I think, if you're having the feelings that you describe, that it's worthwhile to keep in mind that these are song lyrics, and the singer is kind of like an actor, so it is very analogous to making the distinction between the character being portrayed in a movie and the actor portraying the character. Just as Alizee is not Lolita, she's not the lady in the bathtub either. Maybe that will be helpful? And, yup, she's had sex, and she has the end results to prove it ;)

Killian,
I've made rather cynical statements on this before, but anyway, I think a lot of this has to do with media manipulation. Adriana Lima is a Victoria's Secret model; her job is to sell underwear, mainly by presenting a media construct of herself as a sex object. Alizée's media construct is very different, and, in my opinion, designed to inspire the sorts of feelings that you describe.

EDIT: I should say further that nothing I said is meant to disagree with either Tye or Killian.

[Deepwaters]

My connection and love for her is not of sexual desire ( not that she is not desirable). I feel like I am disrespecting her and violating her by thinking of her in a sexual way. I want to think of her as the wonderful person she is, and all the good accomplishments she has made. Not in a sexual way, because she deserves better.

I'm going to suggest something here, which I believe is true.

Alizée wants to be thought of in a sexual way. She likes being an object of desire -- as long as that isn't all she is (and there's no danger of that whatsoever). She likes being sexy. She likes turning people on. If she didn't, she wouldn't do it. And she certainly does do it! She likes to flirt, she likes to seduce, she enjoys wearing revealing clothes. It's all in the interviews, if you care to look it up.

So no, you wouldn't be violating her or disrespecting her by thinking of her in a sexual way, as long as doing so doesn't mean you can't also relate to her as an admirer of her talent and an affectionate friend. Because of course these are things she wants too; she isn't one-dimensional.

Something else, though: the lyrics of J'en Ai Marre are somewhat subtle and not crude or vulgar. The interpretation, by setting everything out in the open, isn't subtle and is crude and vulgar. But she's never performed the interpretation, only the song.

[Tye]

I expect her to want to be sexy and turn people on. Most girls do. However, I don't know her personally, and sexual desires and actions are personal to people. This is why I don't think of her sexually. Sometimes I slip up and do. I just try not too, but we are all human, and every now and then our desires come to the surface. I just try to keep my sexual desires below more important desires.

If she told me that she didn't mind me thinking of her sexually, then I would not have a problem thinking of her more sexually.

One thing people around me don't get about me is how my attraction towards women works. Sexual desires are not a thing I get worked up over. When I look at women, I first notice their eyes, and hair. Not their breasts or butt or legs. The eyes to me are the most beautiful part of a women. That is were majority of the emotion is shown. Since I am all about emotion, naturally they attract me first. I just prefer things like a candle lit dinner to sex. I don't get worked up over sex. It is a great thing, but there are far more important things to me.

I know these lyrics are just that, lyrics. The awkward feeling I had was something subconsceous. I didn't feel that way purposefully. Something in my brain just kicked in and I felt awkward. Lke I said, I had never had that strong of a feeling like that about something.

[Deepwaters]

One thing people around me don't get about me is how my attraction towards women works. Sexual desires are not a thing I get worked up over. When I look at women, I first notice their eyes, and hair. Not their breasts or butt or legs. The eyes to me are the most beautiful part of a women. That is were majority of the emotion is shown.

Well, sure. Actually, I'm the same way. But you know, and I think this is also part of the residue of puritanism, I don't think a lot of people understand the mechanism of sexual attraction, because they try to sever it from the whole person. There's a lot of mind to it, in fact, it's mostly mental. You're attracted not just to the body but to the whole person, or else it's not any good. And yes, the eyes are the window of the soul.

It works the other direction, too. Night before last, my housemate had two people over to visit, an 18-year-old boy and girl (couple), and when the girl saw me she did this very common thing, looked me in the eyes, and then looked down to see the rest of me. No way in the world was I going to take that for an invitation, with her boyfriend in the same room, and I don't think it was one, but it was definitely attraction, and it didn't bother me, I loved it. ;) And Alizée surely gets that energy a lot, and a lot of it is from men she will never actually have sex with. Because not only does she have a beautiful face and body, but she's a beautiful person, too. (If a bit of a scamp. :p) And I'm sure she loves it, too.

So my feeling is, don't sweat it. I find I'm attracted to her in just about every way conceivable. I would really love to talk to her, have a conversation with her, and help each other become bilingual. I would love to do magic with her, because I know she does that kind of thing and I do too, and I have reason to believe she's quite good. Of course I love hearing her sing and seeing her perform, and I also love writing poetry and song lyrics for her -- and if at times those end up being a little racy and flirtatious, that's cool, because that's also how I feel. And if in the future things worked out that way, would I be interested in having sex with her? You bet I would. And I see no reason to hide that, or be ashamed of it or embarrassed by it.

Of course, I'm on the wrong side of the ocean to make that desire even remotely realistic at present, even if she wasn't married. Some of the other things can be done long-distance, and so as far as acting on desire is concerned, those things are what I would like to do. But there's no reason to pretend the sexual attraction isn't there, merely because I am in no position to do anything about it. Do you see what I mean?

[espire]

I feel as if I am disrespecting her, even violating her privacy, and wouldn't want to do that to her, no matter what. I see beyond her outer beauty and into her inner.


While I can see the reason that you wouldn't want to look at her in this way, it is not at all a violation of her privacy. When Alizée went up on stage to sing Moi... Lolita wearing a dress that was entirely ineffective at hiding her underclothing, she knew what she was doing it, and she knew why: To do what her character did, which is creating desire for her in older men. Sure, it worked on boys of the same age, but the point was that Alizée was a Lolita.

When singing J'en ai marre, Alizée knew then too what she was doing. She knew how revealing her clothing was, and how sexually attractive her dance was. It's her job to do this, and she knows exactly what she's doing to the men this time. These performances are not Alizée's private life, and even the pictures of it that we've seen are barely a small fraction of it.

I can understand entirely why you and many others (myself partly included) would want to view Alizée this way, because, though it seems hopeless, we want to be more like an admirer than just a gawker, a friend rather than a watcher. It doesn't really do much, but it does give a feeling.

[Ali]

I never think of her in a dirty kinda of a way, I admire her for who she is.:) Besides, the lyrics were written by Mylene and the image were created purposefully by Mylene to potray Alizee in a certain way.

[espire]

So because Mylène wrote it, it's not what Alizée feels? Alizée knew the images she portrayed, and she knew the effects of it. As the Nightwish song "Bare Grace Misery" says,

This is what I am
Bare grace for the end of days

Alizée took the image by choice.

[Deepwaters]

I never think of her in a dirty kinda of a way

(Sigh.)

I give up.

[Ali]

So because Mylène wrote it, it's not what Alizée feels? Alizée knew the images she portrayed, and she knew the effects of it. As the Nightwish song "Bare Grace Misery" says,



Alizée took the image by choice.

It does not necessarily always work that way in the music industry. I am not saying that Alizee does not like what Mylene wants to project in terms of image, ( I personally think she likes it). But in the music industry things are often constructed to follow and appeal to a certain audience that artists may not have a choice over. For example, when Pink first debuted her songs were pop, teen oriented with catchy lyrics because at that time in the music industry in the late 90's/2000, you had Christina Aguilera and Britney Spears that she had to compete against, she was constructed to be a teen pop idol, something that she expressed in an interview that she did not necessarily like, whereas in the later albums by Pink she had more freedom in her music and was able to do music with her own style and not necessarily following what her record label wanted. I think one of the reasons Alizee parted ways with Mylene was becuase she wanted more freedom with her music style, I think she wants to drop the lolita image and project her own image thats herself not what Mylene wants her to be.

[Ali]

(Sigh.)

I give up.

Give up on what? There are other members on the forums who have indicated that they don't think of Alizee in a dirty kinda way and I think thats a good thing, that means that Alizee is very unique. What, am I all of a sudden should have dirty thoughts about her?;)

[Deepwaters]

Ali:

Please note that I added bold to the word "dirty" in my quote of your post. This means that my problem is with your use of that word to describe things I don't believe deserve it.

Violence, coercion, malice, cruelty, these things are "dirty." (And no, of course you should not have violent, coercive, malicious, or cruel thoughts towards Alizée -- or anyone else.) Sex, unless characterized by one or more of those things, is not "dirty."

[fsquared]

Regarding Pink, I should also mention the histories of Tori Amos and Alanis Morrissette (I can never spell her name right). Anyone heard of Y Kant Tori Read, a pop-metal type band fronted by Tori Amos back in the late 80s? It's an astonishing piece of work. Apparently Tori, in the liner notes, thanks her record company for "letting her make the album she wanted to make". Later, she would blame the album on "corporate pressures".

[Deepwaters]

Regarding Pink, I should also mention the histories of Tori Amos and Alanis Morrissette (I can never spell her name right).


Morissette, one r.


Apparently Tori, in the liner notes, thanks her record company for "letting her make the album she wanted to make". Later, she would blame the album on "corporate pressures".

Now that's funny. :D

[fsquared]

Morissette, one r.



Now that's funny. :D

It used to be that I couldn't spell Alanis right either. I always meant to post career analogies Alizée vs. Alanis....Alanis' first two albums were sheer teen pop (the shameless Paula Abdul drums ripoff is hilarious), then she changed writers/record companies and released Jagged Little Pill, and those two albums just...went away. Similarly, one magazine was saying how bringing up Tori's first album would turn into "Y Kant Tori Stop Suing Us?"

[Ali]

Ali:

Please note that I added bold to the word "dirty" in my quote of your post. This means that my problem is with your use of that word to describe things I don't believe deserve it.

Violence, coercion, malice, cruelty, these things are "dirty." (And no, of course you should not have violent, coercive, malicious, or cruel thoughts towards Alizée -- or anyone else.) Sex, unless characterized by one or more of those things, is not "dirty."

Oh come on Deepwaters, I did not use the "dirty" in the sense that you are interpreting it, I was using it as more of a slang. What I mean is that I don't think of Alizee in a sexual way, I have too much respect for her and view her in a completely different manner. I feel like I am disrespecting her as well as women in general if a view them in that manner. My views are more in line with Tye and Killian as well as many others who have respect for Alizee. You take things too seriously.

[Chommpers]

Well I don't think we should look at Deepwaters as some kind of "horn-dog". You make it sound as though he has no respect for Alizee and I'm quite sure he does. When he thinks of Alizee, he does not think of how much he would love to have sex with her. We all here respect Alizee here more than that I'm sure. Though any straight man who would say he would not be sexually attracted to Alizee, I think would be lying trough his teeth.

[Killian]

Ali, while I still do agree with looking at more at Lili's personality, I see the other's points. I think I understand that in essence it is only right to see both sides. To see the Lolita, but to also in equal measure recognize the young woman. As I said though, I still don't see my thoughts on her changing directly into lustful sex dreams, even though if you had one it wouldn't really be "disrespectful", it would be more succumbing to natural urges and nothing to be ashamed of...

Thanks for helping point that out guys.

[Deepwaters]

The idea of sex as dirty, or of lustful thoughts as disrespectful, is something that bothers me a great deal. It's behind a lot of what's wrong with our civilization (although by no means all of it). Simply put, when sex is evil, then evil is sexy, and since sex cannot be suppressed (it's much too strong for that), it will emerge in twisted and evil forms.

Sex can be "dirty." It can be coercive, cruel, malicious, exploitative, and wrong. But it doesn't have to be. And this has nothing to do with any rules about who you can have sex with or when or for what purpose. It has to do only with how you feel, whether you're relating to a whole person or just a piece of meat, and how you're relating to the whole person.

One of the great things about Alizée is that she can wear revealing outfits and shake her ass in wonderfully provocative ways, and all the time smile that beautifully innocent smile and remain totally open and cool. She's saying, in effect, "Here, I'm going to give you as much of myself as I can, just enjoy it, this will be fun." Mylène or Madonna challenges the barriers; Alizée seems to take the attitude that they're already down, or never existed in the first place.

Anyway, that's why I've spent so much time on this thread; the responses to the idea of J'en Ai Marre being about masturbating in the bubble-bath are, for me, more interesting (and disturbing) than the idea itself. Which is, of course, why Mylène wrote the lyrics that way. Challenging puritanism is part of her personal crusade.

[fsquared]

I wavered a few times about bringing this up, for fear of opening another huge can of worms, but here it is. I figured it might be worthwhile to point out a concept called the Madonna/whore complex.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madonna-whore_complex
Rather than attempt to write a carefully worded statement about how this might or might not be relevant to the discussion, I'll just throw it out there and let interested people chase it down.

[Tye]

Deepwaters, I am not saying I wouldn't have sex with her if she asked. I would. However, she is married. She is off limits. She took a vow to be honest and love Jeremy and only Jeremy. Sex regarding Lili is her's and Jeremy's business or whoever they tell. It isn't ours or the medias. This has nothing to do with puritanism at least not with me. I am just respecting something that is a private matter between her and her husband.

And about her being provacative. We have not seen her perform since she got married and had a baby. Marriage changes people and having a baby can really change someone. She may not wear the super short skirts anymore. I am not saying she has done a 180, and changed to a proper girl. But there is a chance her style may not be quite as provacative. Now having said this, considering marriage isn't viewed the same way by my generation, she may not change at all.

I wavered a few times about bringing this up, for fear of opening another huge can of worms, but here it is. I figured it might be worthwhile to point out a concept called the Madonna/whore complex.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madonna-whore_complex
Rather than attempt to write a carefully worded statement about how this might or might not be relevant to the discussion, I'll just throw it out there and let interested people chase it down.

Believe me I am not suffering from that. If I get married I am going to have sex with my wife. Sex is one of the things that keeps a marriage interesting.

[Killian]

I think what Deepwaters was saying was that Lili is not "off-limits", as such. Only when you portray her in a dirty way in her mind would that come into play. But, if you view sex as a beautiful thing, it would be showing her the utmost respect to view her in that way, as it would be a sign that you view her as beautiful, not just sexy or hot, as long as you didn't conceive these sexual desires to be something dirty or crude.

I am still torn between both points of views, but Deepwaters has made some very wise and points that have started to sway me.

[Deepwaters]

Deepwaters, I am not saying I wouldn't have sex with her if she asked. I would. However, she is married. She is off limits.


We're not talking about actually having sex with her. We're talking about things in the mind, and whether there's anything wrong with thinking of her (or anyone else, "off-limits" or not) in an erotic way. This is arising from a discussion of Mylène's lyrics, remember, and branched into performances onstage, which everyone has an opportunity to see.

I'm actually very selective. The list of women I would be willing to have sex with is very short. But that doesn't stop me from appreciating attractiveness, or from flirting, as long as it's understood not to be serious, because it makes everyone feel good. Communicating "I find you attractive" is a compliment just like "I think you're smart" or "I think you're a good person." It isn't showing lack of respect -- completely the opposite.

Most likely you will never have to decide whether to jump into bed with Her Grace. ;) But you do have to deal with the way she presents herself and seduces with her eyes, her voice, her smile, her body, and her mind. With the way that makes you feel towards her, that she invites you to feel. I don't believe accepting that invitation shows any lack of respect -- as long as you don't reduce her (or anyone) to a sex object and nothing else.

[Tye]

I know she wants to be considered sexually beautiful and magnificent. I do consider her sexually beautiful and magnificent.

To view Lili's beauty as purely sexual is doing her a disfavor. Her beauty goes beyond sex. I can appreciate her beauty without thinking of how hot it would be to have sex with her. I can set and watch her do her usual thing for hours and be just as happy as I would be if I had sex with her. This is because to me she is always beautiiful no matter what she is doing.

[Deepwaters]

To view Lili's beauty as purely sexual is doing her a disfavor. Her beauty goes beyond sex.

Now here, I absolutely agree. But in truth, for me, a woman who is sexy and nothing else ceases to be sexy really fast. I can't make love to a pretty body housing an empty mind or (even worse) an empty character, only to a person I respect -- and she doesn't even need to be very pretty, either (although I don't mind). ;)

Again, though, it's not a question of actually having sex; she's not offering that when she performs, so don't worry about it. The same restrictions and hesitations don't apply when you're just appreciating. Can you see that distinction?

[bt_bird_90]

Swooping in to save the day:

Family Guy - Brian's Stupid Girlfriend
<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/wHiWdSqcE6M"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/wHiWdSqcE6M" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>

[Tye]

Now here, I absolutely agree. But in truth, for me, a woman who is sexy and nothing else ceases to be sexy really fast. I can't make love to a pretty body housing an empty mind or (even worse) an empty character, only to a person I respect -- and she doesn't even need to be very pretty, either (although I don't mind). ;)

Again, though, it's not a question of actually having sex; she's not offering that when she performs, so don't worry about it. The same restrictions and hesitations don't apply when you're just appreciating. Can you see that distinction?

Yeah, I get the distinction.

[Rev]

I have thought of chiming in a couple of times, but am finding that "Deep" who is much more elequent than I, already has it covered.

I like Madonna's line "Absolutely no regrets." Of course I mean this in ALL aspects of life.

[Chommpers]

Yeah that was a pretty good conversation (even though I only posted once in it, I read it all) and seems everyone came out agreeing in the end.

[fsquared]

I have thought of chiming in a couple of times, but am finding that "Deep" who is much more elequent than I, already has it covered.

I like Madonna's line "Absolutely no regrets." Of course I mean this in ALL aspects of life.

Which song is that line in? Or is that from somewhere else?

Yeah, Deepwaters has it covered well. Regarding Madonna/whore, I wasn't really talking about the full-fledged psychiatric disorder, but something more along the lines of the spectrum of attitudes that there is a mutually exclusive dichotomy between the pure/innocent/virtuous and the sexual.

[Ali]

Though any straight man who would say he would not be sexually attracted to Alizee, I think would be lying trough his teeth.

Hold on a minute. As a straight guy I would on very rare occasion have thoughts about Alizee of the nature that you are alluding to. It's only natural!;) What I was trying to get across to Deepwaters is that when I see Alizee the first thoughts that come to mind aren't of how I can get in bed with her. Thats all.

The idea of sex as dirty, or of lustful thoughts as disrespectful, is something that bothers me a great deal. It's behind a lot of what's wrong with our civilization (although by no means all of it).

As I said in my previous posts I was using the word "dirty" as more of a slang term. I am an engineering student and when I take university engineering classes then I can use appropriate words when writing technical documents and assign specific words to specific things. This is a forum, I can be more loose in the words I use because after all we are here to have fun.:) Lets not get hung up on what words people use to describe certain things.

[Ali]

As I said though, I still don't see my thoughts on her changing directly into lustful sex dreams, even though if you had one it wouldn't really be "disrespectful", it would be more succumbing to natural urges and nothing to be ashamed of...


Yeah, I think I can agree with that and share the same views.


To view Lili's beauty as purely sexual is doing her a disfavor. Her beauty goes beyond sex. I can appreciate her beauty without thinking of how hot it would be to have sex with her. I can set and watch her do her usual thing for hours and be just as happy as I would be if I had sex with her. This is because to me she is always beautiiful no matter what she is doing.

My thoughts exactly! :D

[Killian]

Yeah that was a pretty good conversation (even though I only posted once in it, I read it all) and seems everyone came out agreeing in the end.

I guess we did :)

I suppose that's what these discussions are for, to enlighten people to other's views so as to become more open minded. If you achieve this through the course of our little "debates", that can only be a good thing.

I think Deep seems to be at a distinct advantage in these situations, he seems to have a way with words, a way of conveying his thoughts, which I seem to lack, so he may always come out on top, but I'll try anyway. God damn it, I'll try ;)

[Chommpers]

Well I guess that's all you can do sometimes. :)

[fsquared]

I guess we did :)

I suppose that's what these discussions are for, to enlighten people to other's views so as to become more open minded. If you achieve this through the course of our little "debates", that can only be a good thing.

I think Deep seems to be at a distinct advantage in these situations, he seems to have a way with words, a way of conveying his thoughts, which I seem to lack, so he may always come out on top, but I'll try anyway. God damn it, I'll try ;)

Well, he is a professional writer, after all, with decades of experience on you contemplating the relationship between sexuality and spirituality from multiple religious and philosophical viewpoints. Having the debates is a way for us all to challenge our assumptions, learn from each other and grow.

[lefty12357]

Deepwaters does a great job. But in regards to the content of Killian's posts; if I didn't know better, I'd think he was twice the age he is.

[fsquared]

Deepwaters does a great job. But in regards to the content of Killian's posts; if I didn't know better, I'd think he was twice the age he is.

I agree, and I should definitely say that my post was not meant in any way to denigrate the quality of Killian's posts or anyone else's. I should probably amend it to say that Deepwaters has decades of experience on most of us....

[Deepwaters]

I should probably amend it to say that Deepwaters has decades of experience on most of us....

LOL oh God . . . you're making me feel ancient . . . I'll just take my cane and hobble out the door on my creaky joints . . . :p

[fsquared]

LOL oh God . . . you're making me feel ancient . . . I'll just take my cane and hobble out the door on my creaky joints . . . :p

Um...after I wrote that, then I felt bad for exactly that reason. Obviously I don't have the touch either at getting my point across. :o But, I think you know what I mean.

[lefty12357]

I agree, and I should definitely say that my post was not meant in any way to denigrate the quality of Killian's posts or anyone else's. I should probably amend it to say that Deepwaters has decades of experience on most of us....

Yeah, I know you didn't mean it that way. I also failed to be perfectly clear in my post. I guess that ol' fart Deepwaters could teach us all a thing or two about communication...lol

[Killian]

If he can find his reading glasses first..... :p

[fsquared]

OK no more age jokes please. I feel bad enough as it is. :(

[Killian]

OK no more age jokes please. I feel bad enough as it is. :(

I think Deep is smart enough to realise we are joking, and man enough to take it as it is meant, but okay, let's stop, it's probably getting old anyway *snigger

/end bad pun.

[Deepwaters]

It's all in good fun.

And as long as pretty 18-year-old girls are still giving me the eye, there's a limit to just how old I can feel. ;)

[Renegade]

:eek:
Thats pretty
wow

[Tical 808]

After reading this thread I feel like I've gotten smarter :blink:

[user472884]

wow... just read the analysis of J'en Ai Marre....

wow... I'm quite speechless at the moment (good thing my hands still work)

I really do mean it, speechless

Wow. I respect Anthony's opinion, but great googly moogly...

I mean, I do declare!

I always thought the song was about her laying pensively in her tub thinking about her life.... but wow.

But if Anthony was correct, that would have been one interesting music video, huh?

[wasabi622]

Not going to lie. Some of those translations.. especially J'en Ai Marre.

Mind rapage.

Holy frick on a god damn brick. I never never never ever even would have come close to that interpretation..

[Zeerre]

Not going to lie. Some of those translations.. especially J'en Ai Marre.

Mind rapage.

Holy frick on a god damn brick. I never never never ever even would have come close to that interpretation..

The "analysis" of J'en Ai Marre is just ludicrous, it looks like whoever wrote it was pursuing an agenda. Everything, from the sensationalist introduction to the far-fetched interpretations, screams of moral panic. I mean, come on:

I bathe myself in water > Natural vaginal lubrication
Its what’s important > Important in order that there be no irritation when she sticks her fingers inside and for more pleasure…

Fed up of the rain, the courgettes
That make me vomit under the bedsheets > we asked ourselves quite often what this sentence means! The rain of the courgettes can mean the ejaculation of sperm into her mouth that she doesn’t like…

Anyhow, it's his "analysis."

[edgar93]

LOL, yeah, I got the same reaction when I found out about the Jeam interpretation. I guess Garcon's warning hasnt been taken seriously by some of us :p.

Ive talked with Mexican fans about this and some of them think this interpretation is right, but who knows. After all, lyrics were written by Mylene.

[AlizéeInspired]

Even before looking at other people's interpretations of some of her songs I had already made a few of the connections myself, or at least had suspected there was something more with the lyrics.

One of the first songs I noticed this with was ACC. I was watching a music video of it with english subtitles. I kind of got the hint it was some type of love song with it always saying things like "Our universes", "Our fusions", "We desire each other", "We electrify each other", and "The body curcuits of two lovers". And with certain phrases like this along with the other lyrics, I began to wonder, "Is she talking about... dude! I think this song is about sex :blink:". And then I came across these lyrics:

Find meaning again
Of life, I think
Pass by boredom
When you, you are gone

Find meaning again
Moments that get insolent
Of precessions of fingers
Of my hunger for you

At this point I was just like... ":blink::eek: What?! Is she talking about... masturbating to her lover when he's gone?!" Maybe I just had a perverted mind at the time? lol. I don't know. But I did seem to find similar sexual connections in these songs before looking up other people's interpretations. Even with JEAM. That one really surprised me as well. With ACC, I was a little shocked as I had no idea what the song was about at first, it was one of my favorites, and I hadn't imagined it was about love like that. But I was just like, it's cool, it's just a love song I guess. But then when I was watching a video with JEAM english subtitles... I began to wonder. Is she talking about what I think she's talking about?!

At the beginning of the song, she talks about her soft skin, bubbles in the bath, splashing, and laughing. Then she says something to the extent of her goldfish being in the bath stirring and then she muffles or wraps him up. I was just like, "Why the hell would she have a fish in the bath with her?...". Then getting further into the song it kind of hit me. Is she talking about masterbation?! :eek: Is the fish her... :blink: Dude wtf?! Then I came across the lyrics about her being fed up with rain and zucchinis/courgettes. There I was just like "Zucchinis? Why?". Then she says something like "That make me throw up under the sheets."... At first I was like, "Maybe she is allergic to them... Or is she talking about... Dude, wtf?! No". Then, with that in mind, I went back through the lyrics again and found basically all the sexual and obscene references in the song that I have found other people made. And I made these connections before anyone had even mentioned that the lyrics suggested such things. I don't know, like I said before, maybe I just have a perverted mind lol. But the connections can be made and are there.



You can take some of the songs to mean these sexual things, mean the literal words in the song, or something of an interpretation that is your own. In the end, it only matters what you make out of the song and what it means to you. I keep in mind that JEAM might be about masterbation and all that... but I prefer to think of my other more literal interpretation where she is just chillin' in the tub at the end of a tough day and thinks of all the things that bother her, saying she is fed up with it, then relaxes. That is what the song is to me, just sayin' to chill at the end of the day, say you're fed up with all the crap, relax, and move on. If you wanna rock out to a song about a chick finger bangin', then be my guest :p. But I think I'll use my preferred translation of the song :).

[wasabi622]

So after the initial pillaging of my mind, I've decided that it doesn't matter.

I mean, like any art, it's open to interpretation. Some people can take it that way, while others can see something totally different. I'm glad to have seen this analysis, it's certainly not something I would've come up with, but interesting nonetheless.

I just take it to mean what I thought it was before, her chilling in the tub going over things that annoy her.

[Zeerre]

Then I came across the lyrics about her being fed up with rain and zucchinis/courgettes. There I was just like "Zucchinis? Why?". Then she says something like "That make me throw up under the sheets."... At first I was like, "Maybe she is allergic to them... Or is she talking about... Dude, wtf?! No".

Une Heure Avec Alizée - Fun TV - June 3, 2003

Lucas (Host): Alizée, I have chosen the following lyrics from "J'en ai marre." "I'm fed up with the big sister who moans over everything and cries. Fed up with the rain, the zucchinis that make me vomit under the covers." I'm interested in the big sister. Who's the big sister who moans over everything and cries?
Alizée: It's simply an imaginary big sister. Like in "Parler tout bas," where there was the imaginary teddy bear. So like the imaginary bear, this is an imaginary sister.
L: The zucchinis?
A: I'm allergic.
L: Really?
A: Really.
L: What happens when you eat zucchinis?
A: My tongue gets swollen, I vomit and blotches come out. Voilà. There are those who are allergic to peaches, to strawberries... For me it's zucchinis.

[AlizéeInspired]

Une Heure Avec Alizée - Fun TV - June 3, 2003

Lucas (Host): Alizée, I have chosen the following lyrics from "J'en ai marre." "I'm fed up with the big sister who moans over everything and cries. Fed up with the rain, the zucchinis that make me vomit under the covers." I'm interested in the big sister. Who's the big sister who moans over everything and cries?
Alizée: It's simply an imaginary big sister. Like in "Parler tout bas," where there was the imaginary teddy bear. So like the imaginary bear, this is an imaginary sister.
L: The zucchinis?
A: I'm allergic.
L: Really?
A: Really.
L: What happens when you eat zucchinis?
A: My tongue gets swollen, I vomit and blotches come out. Voilà. There are those who are allergic to peaches, to strawberries... For me it's zucchinis.

Haha, thanks for this. I actually ended up finding that she was allergic sometime after me looking into the lyrics, but I just forgot where I found it. When finding this out, this really reinforced me that my interpretation and meaning of the song to me was much better/accurate than the "naughty" version of interpretation.

[ferb96]

Oh man. Oh my god. I regret seeing those analytics. I regret it. Ugh !!!

[Euphoria]

Why does it not matter? It's like people just want to cover their ears and pretend that her songs don't have sexual meaning when they DO. ACC is basically about a fuck buddy and how she has "fun" when he's not around. Stop acting like children.

[Bigdan]

Why does it not matter? It's like people just want to cover their ears and pretend that her songs don't have sexual meaning when they DO. ACC is basically about a fuck buddy and how she has "fun" when he's not around. Stop acting like children.

ACC ? Sorry but I don't think so...
It's precisely a very romantic song with only metaphors abouts love as an energy.

[Corsaire]

Why does it not matter? It's like people just want to cover their ears and pretend that her songs don't have sexual meaning when they DO. ACC is basically about a fuck buddy and how she has "fun" when he's not around. Stop acting like children.

First, most people here cannot agree or disagree with such a statement because their knowledge of the French language and culture is not good enough. Second, once again Euphoria, do you really think it is advisable to just state something like that and not give any detail whatsoever. If you want to have a discussion about this, then you would need to state where you see these connections. If you do not want to discuss this, then why post it in the first place?

Who really cares about unsubstantiated assertions on an Internet forum?

[Euphoria]

Guess I'm one of the few people that put two and two together. For me, it's just rather obvious that ACC is about a sexually charged relationship between two incompatible lovers. It doesn't really have a lot of hidden meaning behind it.

[User22]

Not this again...

[ferb96]

guys, guys. Chill down. I'm just surprised of the JEAM meaning like everyone here see it the first time that's all. I mean ... JEAM was my favorite song and ... now I know the meaning ... well maybe i should instead listen to the instrumental of the song for couple of days :D (here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNpQ10ERoQ4))

And for the song ACC. I don't know, maybe Euphoria's true, it does have that meaning, maybe it doesn't. Idk maybe I'll understand better as I grow up. But at the moment I prefer the metaphors about love as energy better.

So anyway after reading JEAM meaning i was like NYYEEAAHH !!

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[lefty12357]

Just remember that many of these lyrics have double meanings. That means more than one interpretation can be correct depending on how you see it. As I, and many others have said before, I believe this analysis is over the top, but I also believe it is right in some respects.

One could argue that whatever you believe the meaning to be is correct - that the listener is a participant in the creative process and the full meaning of the song is not complete until the listener interprets it.

Sometimes songs have layers of meaning that one can peal off as they grow in age, knowledge and experience, at least if they choose to do so. It can be enjoyable for people to share their interpretations and discuss them. But the downside of analyzing lyrics in a forum like this is that all the layers get pealed and thrown at you all at once, whether you are ready for it or not. It's almost like someone revealing the end of a movie to you before you've had a chance to see the whole thing.

I would say to anyone who feels that these analyses are disturbing - your personal take on the song can be whatever you want it to be. Each one of us has to decide for ourselves how to interpret the song. I believe these songs work on more than one level, so pick the level you are comfortable with. It's no more right or wrong than the next person's choice.

[Chuck]

Amen, Brother Lefty!

Personally I find that the songs are so good and so nice on so many levels, that you don't have to analyze, if you don't want to. Just listen and enjoy. Which is what I usually do.

But for those that DO like to analyze, at least there's plenty in there to take apart and discuss for hours. Or days, or, like this thread, years. (!)

And then there's overanalysis, when you start attaching meanings that don't even come from anywhere, like when you start hearing Alizée singing backwards "I buried Paul", the way she does near the end of "A Quoi Rêve Une Jeune Fille". (Man, that freaks me out every time...)

[lefty12357]

Amen, Brother Lefty!

Personally I find that the songs are so good and so nice on so many levels, that you don't have to analyze, if you don't want to. Just listen and enjoy. Which is what I usually do.

But for those that DO like to analyze, at least there's plenty in there to take apart and discuss for hours. Or days, or, like this thread, years. (!)

And then there's overanalysis, when you start attaching meanings that don't even come from anywhere, like when you start hearing Alizée singing backwards "I buried Paul", the way she does near the end of "A Quoi Rêve Une Jeune Fille". (Man, that freaks me out every time...)

Speaking of the Beatles, I read where they said they were annoyed by people over-analyzing their lyrics and claiming meanings that were never intended. So much so, that they started adding gibberish to some of their lyrics just to screw with these peoples' heads. :)

[User22]

And then there's overanalysis, when you start attaching meanings that don't even come from anywhere, like when you start hearing Alizée singing backwards "I buried Paul", the way she does near the end of "A Quoi Rêve Une Jeune Fille". (Man, that freaks me out every time...)

Man I haven't heard something that funny in a while hahaha. And is it actually true? I'm not usually this gullable haha.

[Corsaire]

...
And then there's overanalysis, when you start attaching meanings that don't even come from anywhere, like when you start hearing Alizée singing backwards "I buried Paul", the way she does near the end of "A Quoi Rêve Une Jeune Fille". (Man, that freaks me out every time...)

Well, as far as I am concerned, "overanalysing" is the most fun you can have in life! Try this :D:
http://alizeeamerica.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6393

[lapinschous]

There was a member who I haven't seen post in the past year or so who said that there used to be a dark side if not to all, certainly most of the songs that were written for Alizee by MF. I don't beleive all of them had a dark side, but who knows. The only exception being the songs rewritten into English.





Okay let's get this straight, pretty much ALL of the songs from the two albums that came out of her partnership , or should I say tutorship , with Mylène and Laurent, had a hidden meaning, what Alizée naively called "un sens pour les petits et pour grands" a meaning for the little ones and for the grown ups .

Moi Lolita : Referring to the sexual attractiveness of the Lolita from Nabokov's book

J'en ai marre/I'm fed up : referring to feminine masturbation

Lui ou Toi : Referring to incest

Mon Maquis: Referring to forced prostitution

J'ai pas vingt ans : Referring to ever changing toy boys..

A contre courant: Referring to the sexual life of two lovers with masturbation involved when they're separated

C'est trop tard: Referring to sexual dissatisfaction and sodomy

A quoi rêve une jeune fille (very pervy): Referring to orgasm, rough sex


Toc de Mac : Basically an Ode to her imaginary sexual partner

L'Alizé: referring to nymphomania

Gourmandises: Referring to defloration

Parler tout bas : Referring to the transition between child love and mature love towards the opposite gender


All Alizée's songs are explained in details on this site:


http://farmer.conclusion.free.fr/SITE_PAGE/partie_alizee/analyse_aquoi_reve_jf.htm

http://farmer.conclusion.free.fr/SITE_PAGE/partie_alizee/

[Euphoria]

Eh, I think that's just some perv who has read a little too much into those lyrics. I don't think Mylene is THAT complicated. Yeah, she wrote about Alizee "enjoying" herself in the bath, but the whole "THE BUBBLES REPRESENT PUBES" is just ridiculous to me.

[foxy]

Okay let's get this straight, pretty much ALL of the songs from the two albums that came out of her partnership , or should I say tutorship , with Mylène and Laurent, had a hidden meaning, what Alizée naively called "un sens pour les petits et pour grands" a meaning for the little ones and for the grown ups .

Moi Lolita : Referring to the sexual attractiveness of the Lolita from Nabokov's book

J'en ai marre/I'm fed up : referring to feminine masturbation

Lui ou Toi : Referring to incest

Mon Maquis: Referring to forced prostitution

J'ai pas vingt ans : Referring to ever changing toy boys..

A contre courant: Referring to the sexual life of two lovers with masturbation involved when they're separated

C'est trop tard: Referring to sexual dissatisfaction and sodomy

A quoi rêve une jeune fille (very pervy): Referring to orgasm, rough sex


Toc de Mac : Basically an Ode to her imaginary sexual partner

L'Alizé: referring to nymphomania

Gourmandises: Referring to defloration

Parler tout bas : Referring to the transition between child love and mature love towards the opposite gender


All Alizée's songs are explained in details on this site:


http://farmer.conclusion.free.fr/SITE_PAGE/partie_alizee/analyse_aquoi_reve_jf.htm

http://farmer.conclusion.free.fr/SITE_PAGE/partie_alizee/


lol, sometimes I'm happy that my french is not so good.
I don't understand the lyrics, so I can just listen to the music and Alizee's beautiful voice and ignore the double meaning in her songs...

[Lili4ever]

Okay let's get this straight, pretty much ALL of the songs from the two albums that came out of her partnership , or should I say tutorship , with Mylène and Laurent, had a hidden meaning, what Alizée naively called "un sens pour les petits et pour grands" a meaning for the little ones and for the grown ups .

Moi Lolita : Referring to the sexual attractiveness of the Lolita from Nabokov's book

J'en ai marre/I'm fed up : referring to feminine masturbation

Lui ou Toi : Referring to incest

Mon Maquis: Referring to forced prostitution

J'ai pas vingt ans : Referring to ever changing toy boys..

A contre courant: Referring to the sexual life of two lovers with masturbation involved when they're separated

C'est trop tard: Referring to sexual dissatisfaction and sodomy

A quoi rêve une jeune fille (very pervy): Referring to orgasm, rough sex


Toc de Mac : Basically an Ode to her imaginary sexual partner

L'Alizé: referring to nymphomania

Gourmandises: Referring to defloration

Parler tout bas : Referring to the transition between child love and mature love towards the opposite gender


All Alizée's songs are explained in details on this site:


http://farmer.conclusion.free.fr/SITE_PAGE/partie_alizee/analyse_aquoi_reve_jf.htm

http://farmer.conclusion.free.fr/SITE_PAGE/partie_alizee/

well, fuck, no wonder Lili dumped MF and now has such a hard time to be taken seriously. Maybe it's not that bad i don't speak french and am more or less clueless of the meanings

[Bigdan]

Okay let's get this straight, pretty much ALL of the songs from the two albums that came out of her partnership , or should I say tutorship , with Mylène and Laurent, had a hidden meaning, what Alizée naively called "un sens pour les petits et pour grands" a meaning for the little ones and for the grown ups .

Wow... please don't jump to conclusion so fast.

It's not because english speaking audience realisation of hidden meaning in Mylène lyrics was late ( in comparison with french audience) that, suddenly, you have to say that every words she write for Alizée was about SEX. :noway:

Sure, Mylène play on the "innocent" look of her protégée, and she knows the mix with what you call her pervy mind, could be the way to success.
Your France Gall lollypop reference is perfectly true.
But if she obviously did it in some part of some songs, it's not the permanent hidden sex meaning you describe.
She's far more subtle than that.


Moi Lolita : Referring to the sexual attractiveness of the Lolita from Nabokov's book
Well, nobody can denies this.

J'en ai marre/I'm fed up : referring to feminine masturbation
Even today, poeple are arguing about it. It's could be an interpretation. But its, more simply, about sensuality.

Lui ou Toi : Referring to incest
Not at all. Its about a girl in love with 2 guys, and the fact she can't make her choice.

Mon Maquis: Referring to forced prostitution
wtf ! Are you crazy ?? Its about a girl's room ! The fact that her room, her bed, is like a "maquis" (reference to Corsican vegetation, secret and inextricable).
A place where she can hide, and stay out of the world.
( the maquis is known to hide corsican independantist)

J'ai pas vingt ans : Referring to ever changing toy boys..
More about youth than boys.

A contre courant: Referring to the sexual life of two lovers with masturbation involved when they're separated
Its refering to love. The electric power of love between 2 people. I don't know how you could reduce this text to 2 sentence about masturbation...

C'est trop tard: Referring to sexual dissatisfaction and sodomy
Really?? Apparently not only Mylène got a "pervy mind" :p
Come on ! Its just about a girl annoncing that she's quitting her boyfriend.
Its too late. Our relation is over.

A quoi rêve une jeune fille (very pervy): Referring to orgasm, rough sex
Nonsense !!!:facepalm:
its just about what says the title: the hopes of a teenager.


Toc de Mac : Basically an Ode to her imaginary sexual partner
Just a declaration of love to her boyfriend. No hidden sexual meaning here.

L'Alizé: referring to nymphomania
:facepalm:.
It's about a teen girl at the opening of her life. Her love and sexual life.
Nothing about nymphomania.

Gourmandises: Referring to defloration
Not only, but yes, true.

Parler tout bas : Referring to the transition between child love and mature love towards the opposite gender
Well, not easy to say, but a convincing interpretation.

[lapinschous]

J'en ai marre/I'm fed up : referring to feminine masturbation
Even today, poeple are arguing about it. It's could be an interpretation. But its, more simply, about sensuality.

Yeah you're right somepeople stilla argue on this one, but still... Have you noticed the "Oh oui!" and the "Aaaah" punctuating the french and english versions of the song? Pretty straightforward ..

Lui ou Toi : Referring to incest
Not at all. Its about a girl in love with 2 guys, and the fact she can't make her choice.
Yes but the song precisely mentions that one of the two is waay older than the first, and that he got a lot more power over her, implying that he is her father.


Mon Maquis: Referring to forced prostitution
wtf ! Are you crazy ?? Its about a girl room ! The fact that her room, her bed, is like a "maquis" (reference to Corsican vegetation, secret and inextricable).
A place where she can hide, and stay out of the world.
( the maquis is known to hide corsican independantist)

Yes, but the vocabulary she uses is strongly remindind of a brothel ...
This link explains it well.. http://farmer.conclusion.free.fr/SITE_PAGE/partie_alizee/analyse_mon_maquis.htm

J'ai pas vingt ans : Referring to ever changing toy boys..
More about youth than boys.



C'est trop tard: Referring to sexual dissatisfaction and sodomy
Really?? Not sure that only Mylène got a "pervy mind" :p
Come on ! Its just about a girl annoncing that she's quitting her boyfriend.
Its too late. Our relation is over.

"Jeudi c'est mules, pour les garçons"

"Si c'est ton "art" ...Ou du cochon moi j'ai pas d'opinion. "

This is VERY Mylène-ish , like... hardcore , you know what "mules" can mean, right? ^^


A quoi rêve une jeune fille (very pervy): Referring to orgasm, rough sex
Nonsense !!!
its just about what says the title: the hopes of teenager.

Dude seriously? , this is one of the most obvious :)(:

It doesn't talk about the hopes , but about the fantasms of all teenage girls, mylène style... and you know what to expect from the song with meanings like "reaching heaven" and other metaphors like that



Toc de Mac : Basically an Ode to her imaginary sexual partner
Just a declaration of love to her boyfriend. No hidden sexual meaning here.

"J'mai pendu par les pieds, c'est le plus bizarre que j'ai fait" , perfect way of talking of a fetish , "Loue moi toute entière" ... go figure .. "J'met la flûte enchantée" ... you know what she means by "magic flute" right?


L'Alizé: referring to nymphomania
:facepalm:.
It's about a teen girl at the opening of her life. Her love and sexual life.
Nothing about nymphomania.

Okay fine, what do you make of that then?? " J'embrasse toute une armée" " Je juge sans doute trop vite
C'est ok, tant pis " , "j'aime vagabonder" , "Dans un jardin d'Eden
M'allonger dedans," ... please. denying this is ridiculous


Gourmandises: Referring to defloration
Not only, but yes, true.

Parler tout bas : Referring to the transition between child love and mature love towards the opposite gender
Well, not easy to say, but a convincing interpretation.[/QUOTE]

[Euphoria]

Right, it's Mylene that's the pervert. An older man that has power over her must be a reference to her father. What a freak. :fear:

[lapinschous]

Right, it's Mylene that's the pervert. An older man that has power over her must be a reference to her father. What a freak. :fear:

Ok dude, now that's enough !

1 - I don't care if you're stubborn as hell but you've gotta show some respect

2 - Just translate the goddamn webpage into whatever fucking language you want or try to find any other serious website explaining the song and you'll face the fact that the song is mentionning an OBVIOUS father-daughter relationship ... http://farmer.conclusion.free.fr/SITE_PAGE/partie_alizee/analyde_lui_ou_toi.htm

Dammit, if you want to prove me wrong then find some solid counter argument, but stop stating bullshit , you're not disproving my point


PS: Btw the foam in the bubble bath is called "mousse" in french which is also the name for green moss ... and is sometimes used to describe pubes... so don't reject an idea because its english translation might sound ridiculous..

[Bigdan]

how could do you say " mauvaise foi" in english?:13: Bad faith?

Well, you have decide that every enigmatic sentence of Mylène lyrics are sexual inuendo. That you' re choice.


let me just remind you that she also write this :

j'ai rêvé qu'on pouvait s'aimer
au souffle du vent
s'élevait l'âme, l'humanité
son manteau de sang
j'irai cracher sur vos tombeaux
n'est pas le vrai, n'est pas le beau
j'ai rêvé qu'on pouvait s'aimer

It's a famous part of her lyrics. Cause nobody can understand anything to this. Cause it didnt mean anything. Look carefully Les Enfoires, when they sing "Rever", you can see artists make fun when they came to this words.
What I mean, is Mylène is well know to have unintelligible , obscure writing.
She knows that the meaning is in the eye of the reader.

[Corsaire]

Since the official author of the Alizée’s early songs never actually said what those lyrics were about, everyone is entitled to his own interpretations. Anyone on the Internet who claims to have found the “real” meaning of Alizée’s early songs is just giving his/her own interpretations. That being said, although the references that lapinschous has included might go a bit too far, I myself believe that the songs from Gourmandises an MCE are replete with sexual themes. I also believe that unless one is opened about sexual matters and one has *excellent* knowledge of the French language and culture, it is quite possible to miss most of the sexual content in those songs.

Interpreting lyrics is difficult for many reasons and one of them is that you have to choose the definition of words that could have several meanings. In every language, many common words do have a clear sexual connotation or a slang meaning that is sexual or vulgar. For example, it is true that, in France, “mousse” (foam) can mean pubic hair and “gourmandise” (treat) can mean fellatio.

http://www.languefrancaise.net/bob/detail.php?id=26870
http://www.affection.org/sexualite/fellation/fellation.html

So, as an example, if you make crude translations:

“I have soft skin in my pubic hair” (JEAM)
“Alizée’s kisses are real blow jobs” (Gourmandises)

People who don’t accept these as valid interpretations are possibly too prude or too ignorant of the meaning or use of certain French words.

Just so people who have little knowledge of French can see how the LB/MF technique of writing feels in English, here is something that is somewhat similar in style:

Tonight will be an opera
Opera, über raw
I will play the magic flute
Imma do us, like Amadeus

You’re not scared of the giant snake
But of the gang you will be the slave
Are you ready for their Big Bang?
The bang of the Wolf gang

So, what are those lyrics really about? Some could say these are just puns and references to Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart and The Magic Flute opera (and yes, that includes a giant snake). Myself, I see a penis, more penises and sexual acts, including group sex, more specifically a gang bang.

In any case is anyone seriously pretending this song/video is not about fellatio:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CU1ivU6F3Y

Young girls suggestively sucking on fruits. At 2:24 the young man holds the girls head and looks down at his crotch in an insisting manner. A little later on, cherries and small tomatoes incised to make them look like penis glans and meatuses with liquid coming out. I think it would really be difficult to make it more obvious.

[Euphoria]

There are plenty of native French speakers who have analyzed her songs, and are quite raunchy in their own respect. But I will say this, people see what they want to see. You can make the most innocent of songs sound filthy if you analyze every word on it's own.

[lapinschous]

:omg: i didn't even notice the tomatoes trick ... okay laurent boutonnat definitely is a provocative guy..

You can make the most innocent of songs sound filthy if you analyze every word on it's own.


You are perfectly right, but this is different for it has been made on purpose to be analysed in every word...

[Melle Katherine]

There are plenty of native French speakers who have analyzed her songs, and are quite raunchy in their own respect. But I will say this, people see what they want to see. You can make the most innocent of songs sound filthy if you analyze every word on it's own.

I agree with you.
What the others have already written...just shocked me.
I have never thought that Gourmandises & JEAM can mean these kind of things...
But I think you're totally right because that's true, people see what they want to see.

[Corsaire]

There are plenty of native French speakers who have analyzed her songs, and are quite raunchy in their own respect. But I will say this, people see what they want to see. You can make the most innocent of songs sound filthy if you analyze every word on it's own.

Well, I can’t vouch for other people’s analyses, but my own analyses are not based on isolated words put out of context. I am not saying a hat is a vagina and a head is a penis just for the sake of infusing sexual content. My analyses are based on the French culture, the work of LB/MF, the early Alizée concept, the videos, the choreographies and the different meanings French words do have, in France.

But no one is forced to believe any of this. Afterall, many people in France are still incredulous when they hear that France Gall’s Les Sucettes was about fellatio:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3RwVOSpcVo

And yes, the lyrics to that song can really be understood at two completely different levels; a girl enjoying lollipops, or a girl performing fellatios. LB/MF have built careers based on the very same techniques used by the great Serge Gainsbourg. Basically, the author is trying to make the song as innocent as possible, while being as sexually charged as possible at the same time. Some people enjoy the challenge and try to find the second level to those lyrics, others are completely oblivious to it.

Edit:

:omg: i didn't even notice the tomatoes trick ... okay laurent boutonnat definitely is a provocative guy..


LB is not only provocative, he was the driving force behind MF and Alizée’s career. It is his own universe that was used to create both concepts. It is sad that most people don’t give him the credit that he deserves.

[Euphoria]

According to France Gall, everyone knew it was about oral sex except her. ;)

[Melle Katherine]

Oh my god... this France Gall video... o.O

[Corsaire]

According to France Gall, everyone knew it was about oral sex except her. ;)

:-)
I doubt very much that France Gall didn’t know about the true meaning of the song. At the time she recorded Les Sucettes, she was involved with singer Claude François, who was, according to many reliable accounts, a sex machine. It is true that she did go in hiding for 2 weeks when the story came out, but she was most probably just upset at Gainsbourg (to the point of ceasing their association) who couldn’t resist revealing to the public the obvious, but yet cleverly wrapped oral sex connection. I believe she then had no choice but to pretend not knowing the true meaning of the song. What else could she have done. I doubt very much that Gall was so innocent, even if she did look the part.

And I think Alizée was also playing the innocent young woman while she knew pretty much everything about the sexually charged content of Gourmandises and MCE songs. Alizée actually revealed later on in her career that the little innocent Corsican girl was just a ploy and that she was playing the part willingly and perfectly aware of the sexual content of ML. Why would it be different for other songs of that era? JEAM, for example, once one accepts that the lyrics might be about masturbation, how can one see the choreography of the famous dance as anything else than a masturbation display? Half of the choreography is spent with her hands and fingers flipping over and caressing her pubic area. You even have the background voices going “oooohhh ouiiiiiii!”. To actually believe that Alizée sang this song and performed that dance thinking it was about taking a bubble bath is plain ridiculous if you ask me.

[lapinschous]

:clap: Never before in the memory of a Lili fan have so much sex been seen in a Aam forum thread ! :lol:

[Melle Katherine]

:-)
I doubt very much that France Gall didn’t know about the true meaning of the song. At the time she recorded Les Sucettes, she was involved with singer Claude François, who was, according to many reliable accounts, a sex machine. It is true that she did go in hiding for 2 weeks when the story came out, but she was most probably just upset at Gainsbourg (to the point of ceasing their association) who couldn’t resist revealing to the public the obvious, but yet cleverly wrapped oral sex connection. I believe she then had no choice but to pretend not knowing the true meaning of the song. What else could she have done. I doubt very much that Gall was so innocent, even if she did look the part.

And I think Alizée was also playing the innocent young woman while she knew pretty much everything about the sexually charged content of Gourmandises and MCE songs. Alizée actually revealed later on in her career that the little innocent Corsican girl was just a ploy and that she was playing the part willingly and perfectly aware of the sexual content of ML. Why would it be different for other songs of that era? JEAM, for example, once one accepts that the lyrics might be about masturbation, how can one see the choreography of the famous dance as anything else than a masturbation display? Half of the choreography is spent with her hands and fingers flipping over and caressing her pubic area. You even have the background voices going “oooohhh ouiiiiiii!”. To actually believe that Alizée sang this song and performed that dance thinking it was about taking a bubble bath is plain ridiculous if you ask me.

It's hard to imagine that she didn't know that...
It's obvious. And... too much :D

If even Alizée sang about masturbation in JEAM, it wasn't so vulgar like France Gall's video. I think Alizée was more carefully, even she knew she is in a dangerous game... I still state that she did the right thing when she left Myléne...

And what about JPVA? Any info what JPVA was about?

[Euphoria]

:-)
I doubt very much that France Gall didn’t know about the true meaning of the song. At the time she recorded Les Sucettes, she was involved with singer Claude François, who was, according to many reliable accounts, a sex machine. It is true that she did go in hiding for 2 weeks when the story came out, but she was most probably just upset at Gainsbourg (to the point of ceasing their association) who couldn’t resist revealing to the public the obvious, but yet cleverly wrapped oral sex connection. I believe she then had no choice but to pretend not knowing the true meaning of the song. What else could she have done. I doubt very much that Gall was so innocent, even if she did look the part.

And I think Alizée was also playing the innocent young woman while she knew pretty much everything about the sexually charged content of Gourmandises and MCE songs. Alizée actually revealed later on in her career that the little innocent Corsican girl was just a ploy and that she was playing the part willingly and perfectly aware of the sexual content of ML. Why would it be different for other songs of that era? JEAM, for example, once one accepts that the lyrics might be about masturbation, how can one see the choreography of the famous dance as anything else than a masturbation display? Half of the choreography is spent with her hands and fingers flipping over and caressing her pubic area. You even have the background voices going “oooohhh ouiiiiiii!”. To actually believe that Alizée sang this song and performed that dance thinking it was about taking a bubble bath is plain ridiculous if you ask me.
Personally, I thought it was about masturbation IN the bubble bath. I'm not saying some of her songs weren't sexual, they are, and are quite obvious.

When you analyze a song word for word without really taking the rest of the song into context and where the words were used, you don't really get the real meaning.

[lapinschous]

And what about JPVA? Any info what JPVA was about?

It's about changing of boyfriend like you would change clothes, toy boys , short term relationship, choosy girl breaking the heart of boys again and again using them for ... whatever reason.

lyrics excerpts

"J'veux pas d'un "pour la vie" " I don't want the same one forever

"C'est juste un compromis" it's just an agreement

"J'aime pas l'habitude !
J'aime pas quand ça dure !" I don't like habit (I don't want to get used to one guy) , I don't like it when it lasts

"Je change comme je rime" I change as I rhyme (I change as it pleases me)

"C'est pas l'histoire d'amour" It's not a lovestory

"Plutôt un courant d'air" More like the wind blowing

"J'veux plus d'un : je m'attache, qui m'ennuie " I don't want to get attached, to get bored...





That's pretty clear :D

[Corsaire]

As a side note...

20 years before Alizée, Laurent Boutonnat did think about casting a 15 year old girl to sing “Maman à tort”, a song about lesbian love between a mental hospital young female patient and a nurse. It seems that the idea was dropped for fear of being a little too provocative and it was then decided that MF would sign the song. Everything Boutonnat has ever done in the music and video industry is about mind control, sex, violence... and any other provocative topics. When he auditioned Alizée and create her persona, well, the same topics were infused in her songs and videos.

So, dissociating Gourmandises or MCE songs from LB work is just refusing to see the reality. Many of the early Alizée songs were about sex and especially about sex and teenagers. That has always been a very dear topic for LB. In the following video, you can feel his amusement, but also is pride and joy when he comments on the popularity of “Libertine” (MF’s 1986 hit) and states that children are singing the chorus of the sexually charged song; “I, I am libertine, I am a trollop”. You can also hear MF burst laughing as if this is funny matter.

(At 1m40s)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77Sc9ChcwyY#t=1m40s

I would say that the Alizée concept was basically created with the same goal in mind. Sell records with a young teenager singing sexually charged songs.

Edit:



And what about JPVA? Any info what JPVA was about?

Have a look at my interpretation of the JPVA concept. This is my all-time favorite thread on AAm, but I might be biased... :)
http://alizeeamerica.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6283

Edit:

I still state that she did the right thing when she left Myléne...



I already wrote on here that if she didn’t leave LB/MF, I beleive the third album would have been a transition to a darker Alizée with possibly more explicit sex and violence by the time the fourth album would have been release. This is quite a common progression for young female singers who start with mild or moderate sexual content and then drift to more extreme and provocative topics.

Edit:

Personally, I thought it was about masturbation IN the bubble bath.

Actually, I don’t think there is any bubble bath. As stated before, the reference to “bain de mousse” (bubble bath) is just the female genitalia. The “poisson rouge dans mon bain de mousse” (goldfish in the bubble bath) is the clitoris. When she sings about playing with her goldfish and being wet, well, you can guess what this is about, I suppose. It is quite straightforward, really.

The first time I showed the JEAM choreography to my wife, after 1 minute, she said: “Ohh, I get it, the goldfish is her clitoris and she is playing with it, right? Isn’t she a little young to sing this and move like that?”. Other people I have shown the choreography to have mentioned that it was overwhelmingly sexual. The song is about a girl who is masturbating while she thinks about all the reasons she is fed up (and especially fed up with men). There is even the line where it says: “Zucchinis that make me throw up under the quilt”. When questioned about this line, Alizée has said that she is really allergic to zucchinis, but frankly, this is pretty blatant. The zucchini is a penis and the lyrics are just about being fed with fellatio. Well, if anyone thinks it is about vomiting under a quilt after eating zucchinis, good for them. I just don’t think this is the sort of stuff LB\MF are known for. :D

[Euphoria]

So what's your point? No one really disagreed that some of her songs were blatantly sexual. God, no wonder Americans can't stand French people.

[Melle Katherine]

It's about changing of boyfriend like you would change clothes, toy boys , short term relationship, choosy girl breaking the heart of boys again and again using them for ... whatever reason.

lyrics excerpts

"J'veux pas d'un "pour la vie" " I don't want the same one forever

"C'est juste un compromis" it's just an agreement

"J'aime pas l'habitude !
J'aime pas quand ça dure !" I don't like habit (I don't want to get used to one guy) , I don't like it when it lasts

"Je change comme je rime" I change as I rhyme (I change as it pleases me)

"C'est pas l'histoire d'amour" It's not a lovestory

"Plutôt un courant d'air" More like the wind blowing

"J'veux plus d'un : je m'attache, qui m'ennuie " I don't want to get attached, to get bored...





That's pretty clear :D

It's a bit much, I think. I have my own opinion about this song, but I was curious of others' too.

>> "J'veux pas d'un "pour la vie" " I don't want the same one forever <<
Not sure, but she was 18-19 when this song was released. Honestly, she has time, really and I'm not sure that the best choice is that you get attahed to someone too early... I almost did, and now I see it was a mistake because my life stated to be ruined... Because I naively thought this is a "love forever"... "un pour toujours"

Edit:

Have a look at my interpretation of the JPVA concept. This is my all-time favorite thread on AAm, but I might be biased... :)
http://alizeeamerica.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6283

Thank you! Interesting thread.
Well... two days ago I drawed a fairy-Alizée.. in her JPVA dress, with wings like Tinker Bell. /My tattoo plans :D/
http://kepfeltoltes.hu/130207/plan1_2_www.kepfeltoltes.hu_.jpg

[Corsaire]

So what's your point? No one really disagreed that some of her songs were blatantly sexual. God, no wonder Americans can't stand French people.

My point? I am simply replying to your statement that there is a bubble bath reference in JEAM. I don’t think it is about a bubble bath just like Les sucettes (Gainsbourg) is not about lollipops. I also make the point that people don’t actually take into account the context of the lyrics nor the context of who was involved creating those songs and videos. LB/MF don’t really care about bubble baths, treats, cats, dolls, zucchinis... They are interested in much more controversial and mature topics.

What is your “Americans can’t stand French people” comment about? Is it directed to me? If so, you must have noticed that I am from Quebec. In any case, I am happy to be bunched up with the French hated crowd if this is what your comment was about.

[lapinschous]

I couldn't agree more with Corsaire, I think we did a good job putting under the spotlight the true meaning of LB/ML songs...

As a side note...

20 years before Alizée, Laurent Boutonnat did think about casting a 15 year old girl to sing “Maman à tort”

Now that is bloody interesting! Do you have more on that?



When questioned about this line, Alizée has said that she is really allergic to zucchinis, but frankly, this is pretty blatant. The zucchini is a penis and the lyrics are just about being fed with fellatio. Well, if anyone thinks it is about vomiting under a quilt after eating zucchinis, good for them. I just don’t think this is the sort of stuff LB\MF are known for. :D


That's probably a big lie that Alizée made up to protect herself and cover up the story , she did so much to cover it up that she even pretended hating the green color because it reminds her of courgettes...

Post Mylène era.. *cough*
http://buzzromand.rougefm.com/sites/default/files/styles/large/public/field/image/aliz%C3%A9e.jpg

,ah... the allergy story.. (reminds me of the embarassed smile and empty look on the face of france gall when she sang les sucettes after understanding the lyrics, when you think about it , that's almost a kind of a disgusting humiliation , especially in the 60s.. i'm starting to wonder whether gainsbourg and LB might have had some pedophilic blood flowing inside their veins..)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FD8BZdXSbyE

Btw as a medical student I can confirm that allergy to zucchinis is rare as fuck because it is linked to specific nutrients allergy found in many vegetables and cereals and if she really was allergic to them she would be allergic to pumpkin, cucumber, and pretty much a third of all the vegetables we are used to eat here in france, and she reportedlt said in a radio interview that she likes all foods depending on the cooking.. http://www.rightdiagnosis.com/f/food_allergy_zucchini/intro.htm



More on that, here's one of my favorite thread of the alizée web.. this guy, close to JC , explains the real background behind the split up between lili and ML ... http://www.mf-international.com/viewtopic.php?t=3966&sid=b8315f48226bceec7e01c97032689b06

double meanings... double meanings...


So what's your point? No one really disagreed that some of her songs were blatantly sexual. God, no wonder Americans can't stand French people.

French bashing ... again and again, well american mainstream media i guess..

[Corsaire]

Now that is bloody interesting! Do you have more on that?


Jerome Dahan (LB collaborator of the time) has discussed this issue. The trick of using a 15 year old to sing sexual and controversial songs was in LB and JD plans before Alizée was even born. They actually dropped the idea because of legal complications. This text is also interesting because it does confirm what I have always maintained on this forum, MF was timid, fragile and had no particular vision or obvious talent (besides looking psychotic) before LB made her the artist we know today.

http://jodel.saint.marc.free.fr/jeromedahan.htm

[Euphoria]

Anyone who is remotely a fan of Mylene already knows these things. She wouldn't even perform live for many years because of stage fright, there are photos of her backstage at her first concert where she could barely manage to pull herself together to go on stage.

Have you not seen the videos of her concerts where she gets so emotional during ballads that she's practically bawling on stage? Although I could hardly say LB or Jerome Dahan made her what she is today, she's had a very long career and started following her own vision not long after she joined with them.

[Corsaire]

I guess my point is not so much that she was timid and fragile; the more specific point is that MF had no particular talent for showbiz and that she had no vision of her own. JD attested to that and I would say that all evidence point to the fact that MF was basically LB’s puppet. Every single trick that was used to create the MF concept came from LB’s universe and he was at it from a very early age. All the topics that were exploited by him before he even met MF were reused to create the persona.

I will not deny that MF developed a certain talent and that she worked hard to get where she is, but people should give LB some credit; he basically gave her a career and a persona and she ran with it. Let me put it this way: I am pretty certain that if my grandpa had been coached and molded by LB, he would have been an international superstar.

[Wizard]

So what's your point? No one really disagreed that some of her songs were blatantly sexual. God, no wonder Americans can't stand French people.

WOW! I am new here, (albeit, a long-time lurker!), and I'm catching up on all things Alizée. I have a long to go- LOL!

This is certainly quite a topic- very enlightening. I understand Alizée's lyrics to some extent and suspected that there might be more than a simple literal translation. Now I know! Euphoria's point though might be right on target, as it pertains to our own hang ups on sexual matters here in the US. If Alizée were to tour here, and sing in English- it would be interesting to see how Americans received her.

[lapinschous]

Jerome Dahan (LB collaborator of the time) has discussed this issue. The trick of using a 15 year old to sing sexual and controversial songs was in LB and JD plans before Alizée was even born. They actually dropped the idea because of legal complications. This text is also interesting because it does confirm what I have always maintained on this forum, MF was timid, fragile and had no particular vision or obvious talent (besides looking psychotic) before LB made her the artist we know today.

http://jodel.saint.marc.free.fr/jeromedahan.htm

I see now, so there really was a strong wish from LB and JD to pack as much innocence and candor in the girl that would be chosen to sing their ambiguous songs... That's really a copy paste of France Gall's collaboration with Gainsbourg, but in a more perverse sense, in the way that would shape the singer's reputation according to the lyrics of their songs , with no turning back. That's why Mylène sticks to her original style while France Gall and Alizée managed with difficulty to diverge from their imposed sexual symbolism and shape their public image more like their true selves.

[Melle Katherine]

Well... here's my opinion.

Alizée herself said in an interview that "Moi... Lolita" was not related to the Nabokov story, I mean directly. Maybe the book inspired Myléne, but nothing more.

"Mon Maquis" is about Corsica, Alizée's room, and her brother.

"L'Alizé"... it's about the growing up and yes, a little about sexuality too. But not nymphomania... Come on...

"Gourmandises" I think it's about the first kisses, first love, and the "sexual appetite".

"A contre-courant" Masturbtion everywhere! I can not accept this. This song is about two lovers who grew up far from each other, and about the (sexual) tension between them. But it does not mean automatically that there's masturbation too...

"J'ai pas vingt ans" My favourite song... it doesn't mean that play with the boys like they would be toys. No, just when you're 18-19 years old it is not necessary to get attached and marrying the first boy you love...

"Lui ou toi" Nothing else just she can't choose between 2 boys.

What else... don't know. That's all.

[Finnishguy]

Well... here's my opinion.

Alizée herself said in an interview that "Moi... Lolita" was not related to the Nabokov story, I mean directly. Maybe the book inspired Myléne, but nothing more.

"Mon Maquis" is about Corsica, Alizée's room, and her brother.

"L'Alizé"... it's about the growing up and yes, a little about sexuality too. But not nymphomania... Come on...

"Gourmandises" I think it's about the first kisses, first love, and the "sexual appetite".

"A contre-courant" Masturbtion everywhere! I can not accept this. This song is about two lovers who grew up far from each other, and about the (sexual) tension between them. But it does not mean automatically that there's masturbation too...

"J'ai pas vingt ans" My favourite song... it doesn't mean that play with the boys like they would be toys. No, just when you're 18-19 years old it is not necessary to get attached and marrying the first boy you love...

"Lui ou toi" Nothing else just she can't choose between 2 boys.

What else... don't know. That's all.

I agree this. Ofc there's many many things no one of us can know perfectly but the main points.

Maybe, over the years when people little by little changed their opinion, they are thinking it too "deeply".

[lapinschous]

Well, It's a matter of choice and disbelief, if one doesn't want to hear Mylène's obvious writing style and Laurent's pervertish hidden game in the lyrics, then yeah just understand the songs as a fairytale with everything coming from the pink wonderland of an innocent child.

But that would be missing out the whole interest and spiceness that make the two first albums so unique.

[Melle Katherine]

Oh I read about Myléne yesterday... This is a crazy woman. Okay, she's talented and write very nice lyrics but what she's doing on the stage... Sextonik & vibrators..
Btw I'm glad because I found one of her albums, called "Anamorphosée" from 1995 and I like it very much. This rocky sounding... that's my style! But I haven't translated the lyrics only "Comme j'ai mal"'s because I have already known it in summer.
She's very...daring.

Of couse I like the lyrics which were written for Alizée by her too, even they have sexual meaning, but I think Jean Fauque's lyrics were also great. At least I realized that I adore the album "Psychédélices" too, and the lyrics too. The newer songs are also great, Alizée still has double-meaning songs.

[lapinschous]

The newer songs are also great, Alizée still has double-meaning songs.


Mmm, yeah maybe, but from what I heard from ACDLA, DMS or MC , the lyrics became a loot softer in the latest album ^^ She doesn't want to shock anyone I guess

[Marka]

...

I will not deny that MF developed a certain talent and that she worked hard to get where she is, but people should give LB some credit; he basically gave her a career and a persona and she ran with it. Let me put it this way: I am pretty certain that if my grandpa had been coached and molded by LB, he would have been an international superstar.

Well, It's a matter of choice and disbelief, if one doesn't want to hear Mylène's obvious writing style and Laurent's pervertish hidden game in the lyrics, then yeah just understand the songs as a fairytale with everything coming from the pink wonderland of an innocent child.

But that would be missing out the whole interest and spiceness that make the two first albums so unique.

Well, I am first and foremost a fan of LB, his music and his universe (based on what I have seen in early MF videoclips, Giorgino and Alizée videos). I agree that he should be given much more credit for MF and Alizée success.
Yes, there are some things in his works which disgust me, but in most cases I have nothing against his provocative style, therefore I am not against references to sex in Alizée's songs... you never know, many people are raised with the idea that masturbation is bad and perhaps they will change their mind when they find out what is hidden in the JEAM song.

At first I didn't care much about LB's videos, I prefered Jacques Tati's movies (whose character Mr Hulot inspired Mr Bean), specially the movie Playtime (it is considered by many as being the best movie of all times), which can be described as anarchistic comedy which gives the viewer maximum freedom. You can watch it over and over again and you still discover something new every time you watch it - the whole movie demands that you are very observant, you actually create humorous scenes out of what you see on the screen instead of them simply being served to you (as is the case in normal comedies).

Find more about Playtime on Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Playtime)

I started watching LB's videos only after I became familiar with Jacques Tati's style and because of that I judge LB's works differently from how I would judge them if I haven't been in contact with complex, demanding but beautiful artistic universes before.
In my opinion, LB's universe is much more than just sex, mind control, ... I don't really know how to explain this, but if I look at his works from the distance, the way he presents these "bad and ugly" themes, I see them as something from what you can learn to be a better human, to be more aware of your own nature and the way you approach the world. Well, that is my approach and viewpoint, I always seek to enrich myself with something new, and for me there is infinitely more behind Laurent's provocative style than just vulgarity and ugliness.

But I don't know, perhaps I myself am even "worse" than LB and because of that I don't see much problems in ugliness he portrays in his works? And I have nothing against sexuality in his works (and MF's works also), for me it is natural.

For example, see this scene from the Giorgino movie: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KWSII5QBcM. At first I see only very ugly scenes, everything is depressing, bad, awful... but if I think about it, I can find references to our society, people who go against the flow, ... this whole movie is in my opinion about the society in general (and its delusions), about people who are different, who are childs in their hart, who are in asylum, and they are represented as the only "sane" and good people in the world. ...

Therefore, I think that our quest for more deeper meanings in Alizée's first two albums is far from stupid. Yes, MCE and Gourmandises are far from being "clean", there are many references to themes that are perceived ugly by the society, but that is in my opinion exactly the point. Even if you call LB pervert, he knows what he is doing and what lies beneath his provocative style and the themes he discusses. In my opinion, he is a much more positive person than much of us are ready to admit.

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Btw, isn't Alizée's brother gay? If that is so, can it be, that Mon Maquis is about how Alizée accepts him?

[lapinschous]

Yes, there are some things in his works which disgust me, but in most cases I have nothing against his provocative style, therefore I am not against references to sex in Alizée's songs..

Even if you call LB pervert, he knows what he is doing and what lies beneath his provocative style and the themes he discusses. In my opinion, he is a much more positive person than much of us are ready to admit.


I perfectly agree with you, It's Laurent Boutonnat's perversion and psychotic mind that makes up all of his charms and cloaks his work with that fascinating omnipresent mistery ... Just look at Désenchantée , Sans Contrefaçon or the movie Giorgino (probably his best film) to notice how unique his filming style and scenarios are..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vk0l3Dg2q4A

[Marka]

I perfectly agree with you, It's Laurent Boutonnat's perversion and psychotic mind that makes up all of his charms and cloaks his work with that fascinating omnipresent mistery ... Just look at Désenchantée , Sans Contrefaçon or the movie Giorgino (probably his best film) to notice how unique his filming style and scenarios are..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vk0l3Dg2q4A

Well, thats his style, his way of expression. He uses synthé instruments in his music all the time, thus transfering this very mistery into his music. If you ask me, in Gourmandises he achieved the perfect mix between this mistery (dark) and the persona Alizée played so well (which is why I think MF and LB chosed Alizée in the first place, because she complemented the mistery and darkness of the universe she was about to become part of with her own positive character).
I am sure that some die hard Alizée_is_a_flower_that_got_used_by_MF_LB believers will want to burn me for what I am going to say now, but whenever I hear Alizée (or Lolita), I associate her with the Veni Vidi Vici and Mon Maquis Alizée. And yes, I love her recent works, I love UEDS, ACDLA, Psychédélices, but the Gourmandises (and also MCE) Alizée represents the perfect mixture of mistery, depth of ones emotions, metaphysics... the best one can get from the LB's and MF's worlds, mixed with this beautiful Corsican angel.
This is for me art - having ones own universe. LB's universe looks dangerous, ugly, but for me it really isn't. For me, LB's universe is all about being a child in your hart, being aware of your nature, being a deep person with his own morality, metaphysics and world outlook. That, at least for me, lies beneath LB's provocative style, and that is what attracts me to his works.

Does Alizée have her own unique universe at the moment, which would be comparable in its depth to LB's universe? I don't think so, as far as I have seen. If she wants to sing about her ex-husband and other comparable things like that (which I, forgive me, perceive as shallow), that is OK with me. I will continue to seek pleasure, ideas and depth in her music, but whenever someone will mention Alizée to me, I will wander in my mind to the Gourmandises (and MCE) Alizée, because that is where the real beauty and depth lies. At least for me.

That is, until Alizée comes up with universe of her own...

[Corsaire]

For those who might be interested in discussing LB’s work, and more specifically the movie Giorgino, have a look at this thread:

http://alizeeamerica.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7335