The Fifty // Sixty lyrics, translation, theme, explanation, and interpretation thread

[espire]

I thought that a lot of people would benefit from easily being able to access the literary analysis that many of us have done, and though this is all buried in the Fifty // Sixty thread, it's easier to find things at the top. I'm going to continue work on these things, and any contributions are welcome. Note that this thread should not be for discussing the single, but rather the aspects of the lyrics instead.

I'd especially welcome help with the starred lines, I don't quite understand what relevance they have. Additionally, why is the song title Fifty // Sixty so important? Where the fifties and sixties the duration of the relationship?

Also, note that any interpretations made in this are from the point of view of this song.

I'm still trying to improve everything here, but if you must grab it and post it somewhere else, please make sure that you always give credit where credit is due. Those who worked so hard to help are:

Cindy
espire
mAfqA
Deepwaters
Toc De Mac
RMJ
(if I've forgotten you, let me know!)


Fifty // Sixty lyrics, transcribed by Cindy and anonymous

Pretty sixteen,
Belle héroïne des sixties,
Tu te dandines,
T'es divine,
Quand tu danses,
Dans les yeux d'Andy...

Adieu bebop,
Plus au top,
C'est le pop-art,
Qui te sape,
À la trappe,
Pop-corn et hula hoop...

Rêve de gloire et de fortune,
Chic en Chanel, amour et toujours glamour,
Aux expos tu poses et t'exposes,
À 400ASA tu oses toutes les poses...

Fifty sixty,
Né en cinquante,
Sexy soixante,
Si excitante,
S’extasie
Candide elle croit, tout ce qu’Andy,
Qu'Andy dit d'elle,
Qu’elle est la plus belle
De toutes les modeles...

Comme une icône,
Sous le Nikon tu tournes,
La tête au velvet et Nico
Te voudrais, loin de Lou Reed
À East Village
On est tous jeune
Emmene moi, taxi jaune
La d'où vient la légende

Rêve de gloire et de fortune,
Chic en Chanel, amour sera toujours glamour,
Je te regarde en polaroid,
Tu sais le temps n'a pas pris une ride

Fifty sixty,
Né en cinquante,
Sexy soixante,
Si excitante,
S’extasie
Candide elle croit, tout ce qu'on dit
Ce qu'on dit d'elle
Qu’elle est la plus belle
De tout les modeles...

Le flower power est mort sur le dance floor
L'electro, le pop n'existe pas encore
Avec l'age de rocker, on a changé d'époque
Le rock roule en roller, la pop est en cloque

Le flower power est mort de sa belle mort
New wave et techno n'existent pas encore
Vas-y joue le ton dernier role, n'est plus la modele
Mais tu danses encore dans les yeux d'Andy

Fifty sixty,
Né en cinquante,
Sexy soixante,
Si excitante,
S’extasie
Candide elle croit, tout ce qu'on dit
Ce qu'on dit d'elle
Qu’elle est la plus belle
(La plus belle)

Fifty sixty,
Né en cinquante,
Sexy soixante,
Si excitante,
S’extasie
Candide elle croit, tout ce qu'on dit
Ce qu'on dit d'elle
Qu’elle est la plus belle
de tous les modeles...


Fifty // Sixty, translated by espire, with help from Toc De Mac and RMJ

Pretty Sixteen
Beauty of the sixties
The way you move, you're divine
When you dance
In Andy's eyes

Goodbye bebop,
On the top,
It's pop-art,
That runs you down,
To the trap,
Popcorn and hula hoops

Dream of glory and fortune,
Chic in Chanel, love is always glamourous,
For exposures you pose and expose yourself,
In 400ASA you dare every pose...

Fifty sixty
Born in the fifties
Sexy sixty
So excited
She's in ecstasy
Foolishly she believes all that Andy
That Andy tells her
That she's the most beautiful
Of all the models...

Like an icon,
You turn by the Nikon
The head on the velvet and Nico
Wants you far away from Lou Reed
In East Village, New York
We're all young
Take me with you, yellow taxi
To the place of your legend

Dream of fame and fortune,
Chic in Chanel, love will always be glamourous,
I look you in polaroid,
You know that time hasn't changed a thing

Fifty sixty
Born in the fifties
Sexy sixty
So excited
She's in ecstasy
Foolishly she believes all that we say
What we say about her,
That she's the most beautiful
Of all the models...

Flower power died on the dance floor
Electronic and punk exist no more
With the age of rock, time was changed
Rock rolls on rollers, pop's been knocked

Flower power died a good death
New wave and techno exist no more
Go play your last role, no longer the model
Yet you still dance in Andy's eyes

Fifty sixty
Born in the fifties
Sexy sixty
So excited
She's in ecstasy
Foolishly she believes all that we say
What we say about her,
That she's the most beautiful
(The most beautiful)

Fifty sixty
Born in the fifties
Sexy sixty
So excited
She's in ecstasy
Foolishly she believes, all that we say
What we say about her,
That she's the most beautiful
Of all the models...


Fifty // Sixty's theme, by mAfqA, Deepwaters, and espire

This song is about Andy Warhol, an artist in film, photography, and many other aspects, and his relationship with Edith "Edie" Sedgwick. She was featured in many of Andy's short films, and he called her his "superstar." They were often seen together. Edie Sedgwick was born in 1943, which would make her sixteen years old in 1959. A movie called "Factory Girl" was made, portraying the relationship between the two. It shows how Andy Warhol promised to make her a star, her rise to fame, and her eventual descent into obscurity.

[OGRE]

Mylène seriously neglected Alizée late in the Mes courants électriques era, and Alizée became forgotten by most.

:confused:

[Un-rêve]

Mylène seriously neglected Alizée late in the Mes courants électriques era, and Alizée became forgotten by most.




I feel that we shouldn't cause any upset for any Mylene fans here as they can be very over protective. Well atleast until we truly know the facts.
I'm just trying to help you out espire.;)
Anyway Alizée is showing us her true artistic talent in this song, it's quite ingenious of her, so STFU to all the naysayers!

[espire]

*eats his words*

[Matrix]

So this song is a way for Alizee to express her displeasure with Mylene Farmer? Thought they were tight, hmmm little do we know. Guess there was alot of friction there and maybe jealousy between the two

I bet it all stems from that "baby farmer" tag Alizee couldn't escape from so what better way to escape from it than to drop Mylene Farmer from the team.

Mylene and Alizee had a bit of a falling out and the song is the result. This is sad and very enlightening. Thanks Espire! you the man! :) It all makes perfect sense now

This is typical of mentor and student...it happens people. What we got here is a little catfight between two women, lol

[Fusoya]

Thanks for the info guys :)

[CFHollister]

You know, I think it's worth pointing out that "Andy" may also serve as a potential reference to Laurent. Mylène and Alizée weren't the only two in the "JBG" team.

[Un-rêve]

Well, I must admit that this opinion comes from the song, from Alizée herself.

:o I overlooked that small detail, well I believe your analysis is correct.

[Ben]

Well, I must admit that this opinion comes from the song, from Alizée herself.
That's kind of circular. It's assuming the song really is about Mylene and Alizee, which may seem obvious to us but could be a case of interpretation bias. It's based on an assumption. Take that away and the whole meaning changes.

Besides, according to another rumor Alizee doesn't want to sing songs filled with double meanings anymore, so a cigar could just be a cigar and a song about Edie Sedgwick could just be a song about Edie Sedgwick. It wouldn't be the first. As Kozmo on MFI pointed out, "it joins the likes of Velvet Underground, Edie Brickell and the New Bohemians, and The Cult with tribute songs about her."

Not that I think you're necessarily wrong, I dunno. It just seems strange to justify a conclusion reached by the interpretation of a song with that same interpretation.

[clique]

You're right that it doesn't HAVE TO be about Alizée's and Mylene's relationship, but imo there are too many parallels that can be drawn between the lyrics and Alizée for it to be just a coincidence. The way the text is written makes it seem very intentional.

[Toc De Mac]

That's kind of circular. It's assuming the song really is about Mylene and Alizee, which may seem obvious to us but could be a case of interpretation bias. It's based on an assumption. Take that away and the whole meaning changes.

Besides, according to another rumor Alizee doesn't want to sing songs filled with double meanings anymore, so a cigar could just be a cigar and a song about Edie Sedgwick could just be a song about Edie Sedgwick. It wouldn't be the first. As Kozmo on MFI pointed out, "it joins the likes of Velvet Underground, Edie Brickell and the New Bohemians, and The Cult with tribute songs about her."

Not that I think you're necessarily wrong, I dunno. It just seems strange to justify a conclusion reached by the interpretation of a song with that same interpretation.

That's very true. I was about to ask if we were assuming a little too much.

PS: I feel like I'm nitpicking, but I just want the lyrics to be as correct as possible. If the line "né en cinquante" is referring to Edie, then "né" should have one more "e" on the end. :)

[atra201]

well guys wait for it to be releaseed then interpret it as you like
if you wait you will have more info

[Tye]

If Mylene did neglect Lili then I am pretty pissed off. I don't know if it is true that she did this, but if she did then Mylene will not get any money or respect from me.

Can you imaging how Lili felt? Get to the top, and then your mentor leaves you hanging out to dry. I know how I would feel, and I don't like the idea of Lili going through that.

Do you think this is why Lili took such a long break? Because she was waiting to see if Mylene had anything new for her. When she didn't Lili packed up and left to do her own album with her husband and a new record company. This would have pushed the release back, and could explain why it was 2006 before we got a letter from her discussing the new album.

[Deepwaters]

I'm not sure I'd agree that this song is anti-Mylène. There's another interpretation. 16 years old was just too young to be propelled to stardom like that. She never got a chance to have a normal adolescence. Her meteoric career made her drop out of school and break up with at least one boyfriend. Whether Mylène dropped the ball on her or not, during that partnership Alizée was completely dependent on her, and not in control of her own career. (But then, at 16-18, who is?)

Edie Sedgwick died before she was 30. She was victimized by Warhol, by Bob Dylan, and by the whole star machine. But mostly by her own immaturity.

Alizée, by dropping out for four years to gain some basic life experience, has made sure she can now resume her career as an adult rather than a child. She won't suffer the fate of Sedgwick, or of Marilyn Monroe or Judy Garland or Janis Joplin. She was always strong, but now I sense that she's stronger than ever.

She dropped out in order to grow up, and perhaps in order to let her contract with Mylène, Laurent, and Polydor expire so that she could legally go in a new musical direction. And maybe because Mylène dropped her, but we don't know that, and even if it's true, it was still the right thing for her to do.

[Ben]

Good points Deepwaters. Don't get me wrong guys, I definitly see the parallels to Lili's life in the lyrics, I just wonder how much they're supposed to be what the song is all "about". I mean Edie is still the subject, it's a bit of a stretch to say "ah hah, this is exactly what must have happened to Alizée too" just because their stories resonate.

[CFHollister]

Good points Deepwaters. Don't get me wrong guys, I definitly see the parallels to Lili's life in the lyrics, I just wonder how much they're supposed to be what the song is all "about". I mean Edie is still the subject, it's a bit of a stretch to say "ah hah, this is exactly what must have happened to Alizée too" just because their stories resonate.

I agree completely and mentioned this to Moe today in seperate conversation. I think parallels between Alizée and Edie are intentional but that doesn't mean we should read too much of Edie's life/experience into Alizée's. As Mylène knows, a certain amount of ambiguity is a key ingredient a lot of good art. By certain parallels being obvious while others being not-so-obvious or even false, the listener is made more curious, more involved, and more intrigued by what layers of meaning may lie containted within. In that way, it also generates a lot of interest and is therefor good marketing as well ;) Anyway, that's my view on the matter.

[kdn]

generates a lot of interest and is therefor good marketing as well ;)
Yup, that gives people something to talk about. Things like "she's an adult now and she understands everything", which is mine. :o

[Tye]

I am glad some feel this song isn't Lili talking about her mistreatment by Mylene. It makes me feel better. I will wait until Lili comments on her current relationship with Mylene before I get pissed off at Mylene. I am glad Lili is out on her own now though. It is giving her the ability to develope into her on style.

[Un-rêve]

There's good points here from everyone but it's only speculation that Mylene Farmer screwed Alizée over like Andy Wahol did to Edie Sedgewick. I agree with Tye though and if it is true I hate the thought of it.:(

I don't know if anyone here remembers reading this some time ago on Le'Nid d'Alizée. Alizée had phoned in to a TV show to wish some new singer the best of luck and give them some advice. In her words she said " just don't put all your faith in to showbuissness ". Or was it music bussness? I forget, but those words have been haunting me ever since although I've tried to keep an open mind.

Nevertheless whatever has happened in the past is in the past and I'm sure Alizée has the strength and character to put the negativity behind her and concentrate on the positive aspects of her life and career. That's probably why she took so much time out anyway. :wink:

Alizée is grounded, she has a strong personality a good family and friends that love and take care of her. She's also a fighter she's a Leo like a lion.
If this song is anything to do with Mylene and it has double meanings then it's Alizée's way of hitting back. She's showing everyone {artistically mind you} that she's back with attitude so nobody better get in her way!

[Matrix]

Yea don't forget the Corsican philosophy of "Vendetta"....you don't wanna piss off Alizee. I guess Mylene crossed that line and this song is retribution

[Drake498]

:rolleyes: I think sometimes... we just try too hard... :p

[Boccob]

While it's fun to speculate, I wouldn't put too much stock into any rumors until we've heard either the whole song, or (if it's still inconclusive) from Alizee herself. At this point, I'm inclined to think that the song is just a song. Alizee and Farmer could still be on good terms with one another, and it's simply that Alizee has struck out on her own now that she's an adult. However, if the song is a parallel for bad blood between the two, then I'm sure the details will come out in a subsequent interview in the near future. Gossip sells just as well as art these days, for better or for worse.
Just my 2 cents.
-B

[Ben]

Are you guys ready to POWER BALLAD?!

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[Topaz]

I would take the song at face value. It is what it is. :) Then again I love this quote from Hunter Thompson.

"The music business (the biz) is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side." :cool:

HT

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m301/alizee_1984/thicons-1.png

Nice clip Snatcher42. :D

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m301/alizee_1984/small-1.gif

[B_M_E]

Interesting. Not sure if Alizée wanted talk about her relationship with Mylene in this song but to me the comparasion seems to fit and Mylene DID neglect Alizée during the MCE era... anways going to watch the movie "The Factory Girl" :)

[Tye]

Interesting. Not sure if Alizée wanted talk about her relationship with Mylene in this song but to me the comparasion seems to fit and Mylene DID neglect Alizée during the MCE era... anways going to watch the movie "The Factory Girl" :)

When you say that Mylene DID neglect her, do you care to elaborate? I don't know much about it, and if you could tell me a little bit of the details of how much Mylene neglected Lili I would be appreciative.

[RMJ]

My translation of the song (well, the refrain has some influence from the older clip translation. Didn't see any need to change that part really):




Fifty Sixty



Pretty sixteen,
Belle héroïne des sixties,
Tu te dandines,
T'es divine,
Quand tu danses,
Dans les yeux d'Andy...

Adieu bebop,
Plus au top,
C'est le pop-art,
Qui te sape,
À la trappe,
Pop-corn et hula hoop...

Rêve de gloire et de fortune,
Chic en Chanel, amour et toujours glamour,
Aux expos tu poses et t'exposes,
À 400ASA tu oses toutes les poses...

Fifty sixty,
Né en cinquante,
Sexy soixante,
Si excitante,
S’extasie
Candide elle croit, tout ce qu’Andy,
Qu'Andy dit d'elle,
Qu’elle est la plus belle
De toutes les modeles




Pretty sixteen,
Beautiful heroine of the sixties,
You hip-swaying,
You are divine,
When you dance,
In the eyes of Andy...

Goodbye bebop,
On the top,
It's pop-art,
That runs you down,
To the trap,
Pop-corn and hula hoop...

Dream of glory and fortune,
Chic in Chanel, love and always glamour,
At exhibitions you pose and expose youself,
To 400ASA you dare all the poses...

Fifty sixty,
Born in the fifties,
Sexy sixties,
So excited,
On ecstasy,
Foolishly she believes, all that Andy,
That Andy tells to her,
That she's the most beautiful
Of all the models

[B_M_E]

When you say that Mylene DID neglect her, do you care to elaborate? I don't know much about it, and if you could tell me a little bit of the details of how much Mylene neglected Lili I would be appreciative.

well, the fact that MCE wasn't as successful as Gourmandises shows it. Anything Mylene touches would be a hit and a success, however this wasn't the case with MCE which means something must have gone wrong (Mylene preparing her own solo album, she probably focused on her own work more than Alizée's). Also how Mylene made a lot of money off Alizée and she kinda neglected her after since she got what she wanted.

[Rev]

Alizée had a meteoric rise as a result of Mylene's tutelage (as well as her own talent). Who knows what happened after. We have heard opinions that the record company told her to pause, and opinions that she had a falling out with Mylene. We also know that concert ticket sales were not as great as had been hoped (Imagine how she must have felt when the crowds were different and less than she expected). Perhaps there was a sense that the energy was waning, and that she needed to go in another direction. Perhaps Jeremys introduction caused a loss of focus. Perhaps Mylene could read the writing on the wall (if there was writing on the wall). Perhaps Alizée wanted to express herself in a way that Mylene would not condone. Who knows the actual reasons for the pause (possibly all of the above contributed)?
</O:p
The bottom line is that she is now clear to pursue her own direction. If she feels somehow slighted by anyone (and I would be amazed if she didn’t), it will likely come out in time. Meanwhile, I can’t wait for the album.

[Tye]

well, the fact that MCE wasn't as successful as Gourmandises shows it. Anything Mylene touches would be a hit and a success, however this wasn't the case with MCE which means something must have gone wrong (Mylene preparing her own solo album, she probably focused on her own work more than Alizée's). Also how Mylene made a lot of money off Alizée and she kinda neglected her after since she got what she wanted.

If she did neglect Lili after she got some money from her then that is very sad. I hope Lili explains why she split from Mylene, not that I am complaining, because I think it is a good thing.

[espire]

RMJ, thanks for posting your translation, I like the way you wrote "runs you down." I'll stick that in mine (and feel free to use my elements in yours).

[Tye]

Is it possible that the song is refering to her elationship with Jeremy and that maybe it isn't going so good? I am sure Jeremy said all kinds of encouraging and sweet things when they first met, and then after he got her and a kid he started neglecting her and treating her bad? Kind of like how Andy got what he wanted and then neglected Edie.

I know that it would be hard for her to write a song like that considering he is a part of the team, but maybe she didn't let him know what she was referencing.

This is just creative thought.

[heyamigo]

dude you guys need to stop jumping to conclusions and assuming all this "negligence" on the part of mylene farmer. first of all lili didn't write the lyrics and second of all, i've seen factory girl and i don't see much resemblance in edie with lili. edie was a troubled girl before she met warhol and warhol was known for replacing his "superstars" all the time. he's famous for saying everyone gets their 15 min. of fame and i don't think that was mylene's mentality with lili. i can't imagine that the song is actually a representation of lili's feelings toward her former producer(s), at most maybe the songwriters are the ones trying to stir things up. but why can't a song be just a song, a tribute to edie instead of a double meaning of mylene's screwover of lili? i think we've been too conditioned by mylene's lyrics and their double meanings but guys mylene's not involved in lili's stuff anymore! maybe a song is just a song.


my prediction:

in every song that's released, we will somehow find references to some tabloid-like issues with things that we speculate could have happened behind closed doors....oooh...i can see it sooooo coming...

[espire]

Okay, know what everybody? If you'd like to rewrite the paragraph of how the song relates to Alizée's relationship with MF, I will put it up there. I understand your point, and I was rather biased as I wrote it, but I'm not gonna change it unless somebody gives me a replacement or we get any new ideas.

[Steven0022]

Things are heating up haha :cool:

[fsquared]

Um...can we at least wait till we've all listened to the whole song before we start coming to blows about what the song means? :)

[Tye]

dude you guys need to stop jumping to conclusions and assuming all this "negligence" on the part of mylene farmer. first of all lili didn't write the lyrics and second of all, i've seen factory girl and i don't see much resemblance in edie with lili. edie was a troubled girl before she met warhol and warhol was known for replacing his "superstars" all the time. he's famous for saying everyone gets their 15 min. of fame and i don't think that was mylene's mentality with lili. i can't imagine that the song is actually a representation of lili's feelings toward her former producer(s), at most maybe the songwriters are the ones trying to stir things up. but why can't a song be just a song, a tribute to edie instead of a double meaning of mylene's screwover of lili? i think we've been too conditioned by mylene's lyrics and their double meanings but guys mylene's not involved in lili's stuff anymore! maybe a song is just a song.


my prediction:

in every song that's released, we will somehow find references to some tabloid-like issues with things that we speculate could have happened behind closed doors....oooh...i can see it sooooo coming...

I think it is fun to speculate. I am only posting creative thoughts to stir up conversation and keep things fresh. I am not trying to jump to conclusions, because I know this is purely fun speculation.

[marik]

i am completely lost to Alizée...

[B_M_E]

Yea mmm well there isn't much logic in why would Alizée choose to sing a tribute song about some deceased american actress as her come back song, especially after all that has happened in her life and the hiatus she's been taken. So now she just comes back to the music scene with a song with a totally random topic as the mark of her comeback... I don't know guys, don't really make sense to me, there must be a reason why she had chosen that song specifically, and I doubt it's the song writters who are telling her to sing it since we all pretty much know that this time she is in control of everything... just my two cents :p

[fsquared]

Well, the story of Edie Sedgwick apparently became quite hot last year (e.g., Factory Girl starring Sienna Miller and various other things like her biography and etc.)
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/135479/an_actress_is_born_sienna_millers_meaty.html

It wouldn't be the first time she sang about a movie she liked, right? ;)

I think people might be getting hung up on the idea that it has to be autobiographical and all that. Maybe there's just enough to get you wondering (which would be in keeping with her previous work). If the goal is to stimulate multi-page discussions about the lyrics, then the songwriters will have succeeded. (Not that I know the lyrics, but would we be having an analogous discussion for, say, Lorie's Parti Pour Zouker?)

[Hylas1896]

I'm still looking around, but quick question: where did we get any of the lyrics beyond those that appear in the 20 second clip?


Hylas1896

[Amelie]

i think it's kinda stupid to blame Mylene for everything, what went wrong with Alizee. Mylene has fans too and she had to work for them too not to give everything for Alizee because anyways she gave really a lot to Alizee and you, seeing only a bad way for Mylene...i can't tollerate it. Mylene is a human like everybody too she can't do EVERYTHING at the same moment. just try to imagine yourself in Mylene's place and you will see how it is difficult. and i don't think that Mylene completely neglected Alizee, they were very good friends at last, it can't be...just...it is maybe the simpliest way to blame Mylene for everything what Alizee got or not, it is stupid. you have never been in music business and you just can guess how hard it is to handle all these things...

[Killian]

i think it's kinda stupid to blame Mylene for everything, what went wrong with Alizee. Mylene has fans too and she had to work for them too not to give everything for Alizee because anyways she gave really a lot to Alizee and you, seeing only a bad way for Mylene...i can't tollerate it. Mylene is a human like everybody too she can't do EVERYTHING at the same moment. just try to imagine yourself in Mylene's place and you will see how it is difficult. and i don't think that Mylene completely neglected Alizee, they were very good friends at last, it can't be...just...it is maybe the simpliest way to blame Mylene for everything what Alizee got or not, it is stupid. you have never been in music business and you just can guess how hard it is to handle all these things...

It would also be stupid to ignore the fact that Mylène had some part to play in the sales of MCE, and that she didn't put as much energy into it as she did Gourmandises.

Amélie you have to look at it this way, we are bigger fans of Alizée, so we have one biased view, you are a huge fan of Mylène, and have a biased view in a different way, so it would be very hard to agree either way.



And about the interpretation, I feel the one you have may be right. It could also be that the song is what you see with nothing hidden, but that is a lot less romantic, isn't it?

[Ben]

and that she didn't put as much energy into it as she did Gourmandises.
How is everybody reaching this conclusion? Because MCE didn't sell as well as Gourmandises? Mylene isn't god, she can't control the market. B_M_E said everything she touches is successful, but that isn't true, she's had her share of failures. I'm sure she and everyone else tried their best with MCE.

[Amelie]

How is everybody reaching this conclusion? Because MCE didn't sell as well as Gourmandises? Mylene isn't god, she can't control the market. B_M_E said everything she touches is successful, but that isn't true, she's had her share of failures. I'm sure she and everyone else tried their best with MCE.

exactly. i don't think that searching for someone's fault is needed. because it's no one's fault and.. hey stop looking to the past!

[espire]

I'm still looking around, but quick question: where did we get any of the lyrics beyond those that appear in the 20 second clip?


Hylas1896

Cindy from AFC, who is obviously Francophone, transcribed them.

[Deepwaters]

Is it possible that the song is refering to her elationship with Jeremy and that maybe it isn't going so good?

No, it's not. I mean, yes, it's possible that their relationship "isn't going so good" (although I have no reason to believe that), but it's not possible that she would put that, or anything else about their relationship, in a song. That would be so out of character for her that it isn't worth considering IMO.

The more I think about it, the less likely I find it that this song is about her relationship with Mylène any more than with Jérémy. Except in the very broad sense that it has to do with her early career and the need to break away from the "trap" that represented, and of course her early career was in partnership with Mylène. Here's one counterindication of bad things between them: Mylène's fan sites, including her "unofficial official" one, still pay tribute to Alizée, even though the partnership is history. If there were bad feelings at least on that end, I don't think that would be happening.

[espire]

Amelie, I'm sorry for that interpretation, but I was merely trying to make some connection between Alizée and Mylène that I was discussing with others. You know how anything can get carried away... I hope you remember that I respect Mylène, her music, and all she has done for Alizée :).

[MesGourmandises]

Is it possible that the song is refering to her elationship with Jeremy and that maybe it isn't going so good?

YOU WISH! :p

[dan]

The superficial meaning of the title is explained by "Né en cinquante, Sexy soixante". However, upon seeing this title written as a fraction, I've begun to think of "Fifty // Sixty" as percentages in a deal. Since these percentages don't add up to 100%, it's an impossible deal (unlike 50 / 50 or 60 / 40). Perhaps everyone already noticed this, but it didn't strike me immediately.

Anyway, does anyone know what the significance of the double slashes is in France? And who started writing the song title this way in the first place?

[Tye]

YOU WISH! :p

I want Lili to be happy, and if her and Jeremy are having problems that is not something I want. I am fine not being with Lili as long as she is happy.

[Deepwaters]

The superficial meaning of the title is explained by "Né en cinquante, Sexy soixante".

Actually it's not. I've been thinking about that recently. What does that line mean? Edie Sedgwick was born in the '40s, not the '50s (and Alizée in the '80s). She never reached age 60, although I guess that could refer to her being sexy in the '60s, i.e. the 1960s. Or it might be a pun on "seize ans" (16 years old). Also, on reviewing Sedgwick's career, the opening phrase "pretty sixteen" couldn't apply to her because her career only got started when she was in her early 20s, although it could apply to Alizée. There are some interesting puzzles here.

Tye: Don't worry about it, there's no call to take it that way. My sense at the moment is that everything's OK.

[dan]

There are some interesting puzzles here.

There are definitely some puzzles there. Was Edie sexy at 60 (doesn't make sense since she didn't live that long), were the 60s sexy (makes sense since there was a sexual revolution), or was Edie sexy during the 60s? Without understanding the nuances of French I won't pretend to understand how most French people will interpret this line.

Anyway, I'm just glad that there's enough nuance to Alizée's new songs to keep us guessing, even without Mylene writing the lyrics.

[Cooney]

Ya know, sometimes it's fun to live under a rock (AKA, be out of town for a week, and be so exhausted as to not read the forums for another week after that). Other times it's not.

Would you all believe that, while I'd heard rumors, I hadn't actually heard any of the discussion surrounding this clip, and hadn't heard the clip itself, until today? :-D

Woot for Lili.

At any rate, as usual, I did my best to put together a translation (at least of what we have) without reading what others have done first. This helps me get my head around certain ideas and phrases without bias. On the other hand, it means sometimes I miss things that have already been extensively discussed and explained by native speakers.

So, for better or for worse, here's a "raw" translation attempt from me. No doubt the same in some places as what's accepted, and different in others. Don't beat me too hard!

Pretty sixteen
Beautiful heroine of the sixties
You swing your hips,*
You are divine
When you dance
In the eyes of Andy...

Good-bye bee-bop, more than anything
It's pop-art
That preps you
for the exit,
Popcorn and Hoola-hoop

A dream of glory and of fortune
Chic in Chanel, love is always glamorous
At expos you pose and expose yourself,
For 400ASA you dare every pose.

Fifty Sixty
Born in the fifties
Sexy sixties
So exciting
It's ecstasy.**
Naively she believes everything that Andy,
That Andy says to her,
That she is the most beautiful
Of all the models.


I'm interested at this point that it's all in present tense. Also, the verses are in 2nd person, while the refrain is 3rd person. Time to go back and read the thread and see what others have said about those facts (and see where I've messed up in my translation attempt above).


*Editted after original post to include feedback on the verb "dandiner" suggesting a non-standard usage is acceptable.

**Editted after original post to say "It's ecstasy" instead of "Her ecstasy." I'm hearing "C'est extasie" instead of the originally transcribed "S'extasie."

[Cooney]

Anyway, does anyone know what the significance of the double slashes is in France? And who started writing the song title this way in the first place?

Well, in generally I read // as meaning "does not equal," but I'm not French. Most places I've seen write the title as Fifty-Sixty,




PS: I feel like I'm nitpicking, but I just want the lyrics to be as correct as possible. If the line "né en cinquante" is referring to Edie, then "né" should have one more "e" on the end. :)

Easily enough corrected if necessary - the lyrics we have printed here aren't "official," they're just a transcription by ear. Hence also the difference between version that say "l'amour est toujours glamour" and "l'amour et toujours glamour."



I'm still looking around, but quick question: where did we get any of the lyrics beyond those that appear in the 20 second clip?


That's not the only clip out there... I currently have a 1:04 clip on continuous loop (and have had it going for about an hour now :-P).



Andy Warhol and Edie Sedgwick's relationship really doesn't strike me as being all that similar to Mylène and/or Lauraunt and Alizée's, honestly. Other than it being a case of an established person bringing up an unknown, they're pretty different. For those who say Mylène "neglected" Alizée, and that MCE wasn't a success, I'm a bit shocked. I know there is a popular desire to find somebody to blame for our fée disappearing for a while, but really, MCE was successful, Mylène did a great deal for Alizée. MCE wasn't *as* successful as Moi... Lolita, but very few things are.

Also, Mylène isn't just a producer, she's a singer, and she has a career and legions of fans to attend to. I'm personally very thankful to Mylène for all she did for Alizée, and will remain so unless I hear something straight from Alizée's mouth that says otherwise.

[fsquared]

Pretty sixteen
Beautiful heroine of the sixties
You waddle about,
You are divine
When you dance
In the eyes of Andy...


As I mentioned in AF, dandiner does translate to "waddle" in some online dicts but in my experience it's used mainly for ducks and heavily pregnant women. :D I would probably guess we're looking for something like "sashay" (if RMJ's interpretation of "movement of a fashion model", e.g. down a catwalk, is correct)

[Cooney]

As I mentioned in AF, dandiner does translate to "waddle" in some online dicts but in English it's used mainly for ducks and heavily pregnant women. :p I would probably guess we're looking for something like "sashay" (if RMJ's interpretation of "movement of a fashion model", e.g. down a catwalk, is correct)

Not just in online dictionaries, my Larousse refers to it specifically as the movement of a duck, or a person moving like a duck. :-P I'm going to see if I can locate it as a backwards translation from anything like "sway" or "bandy," but for now it's duck walking :-P

--Edit--

I'm guessing it may refer to a certain akwardness in the social circles she was suddenly thrust in to, rather than literally saying she moved like a duck. Still hunting other reverse translations, but I'm pretty confidant "waddle" is about all I'm going to find.

[fsquared]

Hmm...very interesting.
Maybe a French dictionary would shed some light. French encarta says:

balancer le corps d'un côté et de l'autre de façon gauche et disgracieuse
(elle se dandine en marchant)

It also shows up in some other song lyrics out there, like
in a song called "Strip Pour Moi":

Sexy t'es mon héroïne Tu te dandines C'est spectaculaire Mime l'hélice d'un hélicoptère Ces prémices m'indiquent que tu sais y faire ...

Doesn't sound like they're talking about something ungainly and awkward to me :D.

But I'm guessing it's some sort of idiom that's going to require a native French speaker to divine....:p

EDIT: I guess "sashay" has its own French equivalent btw.

[espire]

Cooney, nice translation. I won't change anything in mine for the moment, unless there's something I did that you think you've corrected. Not that I need to change anything...

In terms of //, it doesn't mean "does not equal to," which is represented by "!=". However, it can mean same-sex pairings in romantic role-playing, and in mathematics it represents parallel lines.

The reason I call it Fifty // Sixty and nobody else does is simply because the original album art (which we can't verify the verity of) happens to show it this way. I'm one to keep things the way they are unless it's logical to change them, so I call it Fifty // Sixty.

[Ellesime]

Its all speculations though from this one part of the song. The rest of the song could show what it really means since we will gain more to the song. so we can only have fun and speculate what it means until it comes out.

[Tye]

The double slashes // means something in geometry or algebra and I can't remember what it is. The double slashes are not suppossed to be used with dates so I don't think Fifty//Sixty is refering to the 50's and 60's.

[Cooney]

Hmm...very interesting.
Maybe a French dictionary would shed some light. French encarta says:

balancer le corps d'un côté et de l'autre de façon gauche et disgracieuse
(elle se dandine en marchant)


That description matches a waddle :-P It translates as "To swing the body from one side to the other in an akward and ungainly fashion (she dandine when walking)."


It also shows up in some other song lyrics out there, like
in a song called "Strip Pour Moi":

Sexy t'es mon héroïne Tu te dandines C'est spectaculaire Mime l'hélice d'un hélicoptère Ces prémices m'indiquent que tu sais y faire ...

This one definitely lends more credence to using dandiner for an alluring movement: Sexy, you're my heroine. You dandines. It's spectacular. Miming the rotor blade of a helicoptor. Those beginnings tell me that you know it does...

Doesn't sound like they're talking about something ungainly and awkward to me :D.

The first one is very specifically doing so. The second one though, you are quite right. It definitely means a huge swing to the hips (like a helicopter rotor, side to side, quite an image!), and is used in a fashion that suggests allure. I'm willing to accept that as evidence I should be hearing it as "you sway" or an equivalent.

But I'm guessing it's some sort of idiom that's going to require a native French speaker to divine....:p

Could be! I'd like to know a Frenchman's take on "plus au top." I translated it as "more than anything," and others have it as "over the top" and "on the top." Literally it's "more than at/to the top" I believe, which doesn't directly translate for us :-P





Unrelated to dandiner, I wonder about one of the other transcriptions...

Si excitante / S’extasie

I wonder if this could be:

Si excitante / C'est extasie

I probably shouldn't question what a native Frenchman is telling me it says, but I'm hearing another syllable in there. The way Alizée sings, S'extasie should be three syllables, not four, and the S' and the ex should be in the same one. I'm hearing two vowels in there, instead of one.

[fsquared]

The full lyrics to Strip Pour Moi are available here for anyone interested:

http://www.hiphopdeal.com/article3070.html

[RMJ]

I probably shouldn't question what a native Frenchman is telling me it says, but I'm hearing another syllable in there. The way Alizée sings, S'extasie should be three syllables, not four, and the S' and the ex should be in the same one. I'm hearing two vowels in there, instead of one.

In this song you can question anything. Even natives doesn't agree with all the words. There is few words that are almost impossible to tell how to spell them correctly. Even for French people. Mortals like me, have no chance to distinguish those words...

But what you questioned, makes sense as is. Your suggestion would work, too. But I'd wait CD release (or official website) to confirm the lyrics.

But well, the story isn't over yet.

[Cooney]

In this song you can question anything. Even natives doesn't agree with all the words. There is few words that are almost impossible to tell how to spell them correctly. Even for French people. Mortals like me, have no chance to distinguish those words...

But what you questioned, makes sense as is. Your suggestion would work, too. But I'd wait CD release (or official website) to confirm the lyrics.

But well, the story isn't over yet.

True that! I eagerly await each coming installment.

[Toc De Mac]

Unrelated to dandiner, I wonder about one of the other transcriptions...

Si excitante / S’extasie

I wonder if this could be:

Si excitante / C'est extasie

I probably shouldn't question what a native Frenchman is telling me it says, but I'm hearing another syllable in there. The way Alizée sings, S'extasie should be three syllables, not four, and the S' and the ex should be in the same one. I'm hearing two vowels in there, instead of one.

Hmm...

What do you mean by "the S' and the ex should be in the same one?" Phonetically, I hear her saying "sex-tah-see" and not "sey-tex-tah-see." I don't hear any liaison from "c'est" on the "ex" syllable. I agree, though. This is very confusing. :blink:

[Deepwaters]

HI don't hear any liaison from "c'est" on the "ex" syllable.

For those who haven't studied French, "liaison" refers to pronouncing a usually-silent last letter in a word when it's followed by a word starting in a vowel or a silent "h." So in this case, "c'est" which is normally pronounced "say" is pronounced "set" because it would be followed by "exstasie" which begins with a vowel. Or, to be more exact, the "t" at the end would be moved to the start of the next word, so it becomes "say texstasie."

But that's not what she sings, so that's not what it is.

[Cooney]

I'm certainly not hearing a t in there, far from it. I'm hearing "Say-yex-ta-sie" though, instead of "Sex-ta-sie." It sounds ellided.

Not all grammatical rules get followed in singing or in speech, and Alizée (among many others) has been known to drop consonants out to make things fit the beat. "Je ne suis pas belle" becomes "J'uis pas belle" in AMD, for example.

I certainly don't pretend to *know* that it's one thing or another, I'm just suggesting that to my ear, it sounds like that's what's happening, and without an official lyrics sheet either way, I like it.

[Fish]

I can hear where you're coming from, the "s'extasie" line does seem to be a bit extended, almost like you're hearing another syllable.

[fsquared]

BTW it was suggested to me that one way to understand "se dandiner" was to look at videos. A search on youtube turns some some baby videos, some videos of people dancing, and this video to Fatal's "J'aime trop ton boule":

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ULdaQOUIm1s

This video includes send-ups of other videos: think "Luke vs. Alizee" takes on "Russian Girls" and "Call On Me" (if you can do it without hurling :p)

[C-4]

Reading the posts earlier in this thread that are discussing whether or not Alizée is saying something or not to Mylene to suggest that perhaps Mylene treated Alizée similarly to how Andy Warhol treated Edie Sedgwick, or whether Alizée is just singing a lyric with no further meaning then what it is at face value, think about this. Alizée, being smart and quiet, could be letting Mylene decide for herself how to interpret this lyric without speaking a word about her to the press. Then Mylene cannot say anything bad about Alizée, without making the first move, which would only make Mylene look small. Yet, it plays with the mind of Mylene to think "Is Alizée sending me a message or isn't she?" Yet in Alizée's mind, she really knows what she is doing and could possibly keep a very calm and polished manner in front of Mylene and the press, but secretly letting Mylene know that she, Alizée, is not taking what Mylene did to her lying down.
I think that the song is a brilliant idea, whomever thought it up and it let's Alizée take a totally different direction while still possibly letting people know, or at least ponder the fact that she, Alizée, is going to be harder to get rid of then Mylene might wish.
Let's face it, why would Mylene say to the press something derogetory about Alizée when it only makes Mylene look bad. She could just be pleasant and if there is a bit of tention between these two women, it might stay strictly between them and be unspoken, yet both know how it really is.
Just my thoughts after reading the other posts.
Personally, I give Alizée more credit then to think that she may only be singing this song for it's face value, lyric-wise, even if other songs in this CD are to be taken at face value, lyric-wise. Someone in the new group of writers and producers for Alizée could possibly have had this idea in the back of their mind and it gives Alizée a way to say something publicly without saying anything bad directly to Mylene or to point a finger at Mylene and tell her off, which would make Alizée possibly stoop to Mylene's level.
Being at the top of the heep in pop music, I believe that Mylene would have stood by Alizée if Alizée continued to sell CD's in the millions. Only selling 800,000 CD's and seeing the songs not be accepted by the public as well as the first album was, Mylene would possibly not want to be on a "sinking ship" as it were, and therefore, left Alizée to sink or swim on her own.

[Ricardo]

Fatal Bazooka :lol:

[Deepwaters]

Personally, I give Alizée more credit then to think that she may only be singing this song for it's face value, lyric-wise

I am sure she is not, but I am not convinced that the deeper meaning to the lyrics has anything to do with Mylène Farmer.

[heyamigo]

i am not at all convinced, since alizee did not write the song.

[Cooney]

Heck, I'm waiting til the full song comes out before I'll be fully convinced its lyrics at face-value are about Edie Sedgwick :-P There's just as much stuff that doesn't match her as stuff that does.

[C-4]

Alizée would not have had to write the song for this meaning to possibly be accurate. Remember that Mylene wrote material for Alizée after discussing topics of interest with Alizée, so this is what might have occured in this particular case as well. Just a guess.

[aditya8617]

Alizée would not have had to write the song for this meaning to possibly be accurate. Remember that Mylene wrote material for Alizée after discussing topics of interest with Alizée, so this is what might have occured in this particular case as well. Just a guess.

I agree with you there. She might have been more involved this time around in the theme and lyrics. It is hard to make your point to an accomplished and experienced artist (especially when you are just starting your career) than it is to people with similar experience as you.

[CFHollister]

Heck, I'm waiting til the full song comes out before I'll be fully convinced its lyrics at face-value are about Edie Sedgwick :-P There's just as much stuff that doesn't match her as stuff that does.

Which is why I think it's good at building intrigue. The lyrics keep people guessing (and discussing) which elements are allusions to real events/circumstances in Alizée's life and which ones aren't.

[Ben]

Heck, I'm waiting til the full song comes out before I'll be fully convinced its lyrics at face-value are about Edie Sedgwick :-P There's just as much stuff that doesn't match her as stuff that does.

+1

Chyld on MFI suggested that it might be more about Nico (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nico) than Edie. But either way, we're concluding a lot from one verse/bridge/chorus. Lets wait and see. ;)

[Topaz]

Nico wasn't exploited (as much). She went on to be relatively successful. :) Although Nico was heroin dependent. We'll see.

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m301/alizee_1984/332.gifhttp://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m301/alizee_1984/small-1.gif

[espire]

Nico wasn't exploited (as much). She went on to be relatively successful. :) Although Nico was heroin dependent. We'll see.


Well, everybody needs a hero(in)! ;)

[RMJ]

+1

Chyld on MFI suggested that it might be more about Nico (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nico) than Edie. But either way, we're concluding a lot from one verse/bridge/chorus. Lets wait and see. ;)

This could be... One bridge is very little in whole song. There's many surprising factors in larger scale.

[Cooney]

+1

Chyld on MFI suggested that it might be more about Nico (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nico) than Edie. But either way, we're concluding a lot from one verse/bridge/chorus. Lets wait and see. ;)


---Edit---
Previous post removed after I got pWned by RMJ's superior knowledge of the subject :-)

[RMJ]

It's Andy Warhol, there's no doubt about it.

Is it about Nico ? Well, I wouldn't rule that possibility out just yet. She was a model, she was drug addict, she was close to Andy... list goes on...

But dunno.... there's still things in the song to understand.

[RMJ]

Not to forget that Nico was modeling for Chanel...

chic en Chanel, amour et toujours glamour,

Or that she became famous at fifties (né en cinquante), at the age of 15/16 (pretty sexteen). She became "the Siren of the sixties" (sexy soixante) as Time wrote...

She was true icon of those days.

[RMJ]

Partially done full lyrics were leaked out in MFIC so I might well leak out my translation and lyrics for the full song...


Translation of the lyrics by RMJ (with little help)



Pretty sixteen,
Beautiful heroine of the sixties,
You hip-swaying,
You are divine,
When you dance,
In the eyes of Andy...

Goodbye bebop,
On the top,
It's pop-art,
That runs you down,
To the trap,
Pop-corn and hula hoop...

Dream of glory and fortune,
Chic in Chanel, love and always glamour,
At exhibitions you pose and expose youself,
To 400ASA you dare all the poses...

Fifty sixty,
Born in the fifties,
Sexy sixties,
So excited,
On ecstasy,
Foolishly she believes, all that Andy,
That Andy tells to her,
That she's the most beautiful
Of all the models...

Like an icon,
Under the Nikon you turn,
The head on the velvet and Nico
Want you far away from Lou Reed
In East Village
We are all young
Take along me, yellow taxi
From which the legend comes

Dream of glory and fortune,
Chic in Chanel, love will always be glamour,
I look you in polaroid,
You know the time has not aged at all

Fifty sixty,
Born in the fifties,
Sexy sixties,
So excited,
On ecstasy,
Foolishly she believes, all that we say
What we say about her,
That she's the most beautiful
Of all the models...

The flower power is dead on the dance floor
The electro, the pop does not still exist
With (...) of rocker, time was changed
The rock rolls on rollers, the pop is (?)

The flower power is dead of it's natural death
New wave and techno does not still exist
You go play your last role, n'est plus la (???)
But you still dance in the eyes of (???)

Fifty sixty,
Born in the fifties,
Sexy sixties,
So excited,
On ecstasy,
Foolishly she believes, all that we say
What we say about her,
That she's the most beautiful
(The most beautiful)

Fifty sixty,
Born in the fifties,
Sexy sixties,
So excited,
On ecstasy,
Foolishly she believes, all that we say
What we say about her,
That she's the most beautiful
Of all the models...

Translation by RMJ


French transcription by French-fan-who-might-not-want-to-be-mentioned & tiny bit lil help from RMJ)


Pretty sixteen,
Belle héroïne des sixties,
Tu te dandines,
T'es divine,
Quand tu danses,
Dans les yeux d'Andy...

Adieu bebop,
Plus au top,
C'est le pop-art,
Qui te sape,
À la trappe,
Pop-corn et hula hoop...

Rêve de gloire et de fortune,
Chic en Chanel, amour et toujours glamour,
Aux expos tu poses et t'exposes,
À 400ASA tu oses toutes les poses...

Fifty sixty,
Né en cinquante,
Sexy soixante,
Si excitante,
S’extasie
Candide elle croit, tout ce qu’Andy,
Qu'Andy dit d'elle,
Qu’elle est la plus belle
De toutes les modeles...

Comme une icône,
Sous le Nikon tu tournes,
La tête au velvet et Nico
Te voudrais, loin de Lou Reed
À East Village
On est tous jeune
Emmene moi, taxi jaune
La d'où vient la légende

Rêve de gloire et de fortune,
Chic en Chanel, amour sera toujours glamour,
Je te regarde en polaroid,
Tu sais le temps n'a pas pris une ride

Fifty sixty,
Né en cinquante,
Sexy soixante,
Si excitante,
S’extasie
Candide elle croit, tout ce qu'on dit
Ce qu'on dit d'elle
Qu’elle est la plus belle
De tout les modeles...

Le flower power est mort sur le dance floor
L'electro, le pop n'existe pas encore
Avec (...) au rocker, on a changé d'époque
Le rock roule en roller, la pop est en cloque

Le flower power est mort de sa belle mort
New wave et techno n'existent pas encore
Vas-y joue le ton dernier role, n'est plus la (???)
Mais tu danses encore dans les yeux d'(???)

Fifty sixty,
Né en cinquante,
Sexy soixante,
Si excitante,
S’extasie
Candide elle croit, tout ce qu'on dit
Ce qu'on dit d'elle
Qu’elle est la plus belle
(La plus belle)

Fifty sixty,
Né en cinquante,
Sexy soixante,
Si excitante,
S’extasie
Candide elle croit, tout ce qu'on dit
Ce qu'on dit d'elle
Qu’elle est la plus belle
de tous les modeles...

[heyamigo]

haha so much for the song being about edie segwick eh? now whichever of you guys that wrote that stuff on edie segwick's wikipedia page better go take it off...

[Ben]

I haven't had time to look at the lyrics carefully in either French or English, but I wouldn't write off Edie completely.

However, what I was trying to say on the previous page is that the second half of the song (especially the rap) seems to be more about just the 60s in general rather than any one person. Certainly it doesn't support the Mylene interpretation as well.

Anyway, lyrically it seems very much like a counterpart to Jérémy's Katmandou, the first single from his last album. Both about the 1960s, but whereas he sang about the "peace and love" generation, Lili's talking about the fashonistas in New York.

[Cooney]

Nico DID model for Chanel? Huh... I went hunting specifically for that, and didn't locate anything mentioning her modeling at all. I mustn't have looked hard enough, or else the bio's I found on her just sucked. Given how many things I seem to have missed, I'll go with a little from both columns!

That being the case, I retract my previous statement that it couldn't be her.

[RMJ]

"nico chanel" gives several hits in google. You must have mistyped. :)

Few pics from the first page:


http://smironne.free.fr/NICO/drama.php

Coco Chanel discovered her next and then she moved to Paris where she took amphetamines to stay thin and earned enough from photo shoots to buy herself a home on Ibiza, the Spanish island where she first adopted the male name of Nico, and where she would eventually die.


http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache:wOX11NvUWvgJ:www.vuas.org/bio/nicobio.html+nico+chanel&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=10

Nico worked for Vogue, Tempo, Vie Nuove, Mascotte Spettacolo, Camera, ELLE, and various other fashion magazines in the late 1950s. She was also hired by Coco Chanel.



http://everything2.com/index.pl?node=Nico

Buoyed by her film roles, Nico's modelling career took off, and she began work for Coco Chanel in Paris.




And reference from a book written about her life (so it's rather good reference):
smironne.free.fr/NICO/BOOKS/bkhb.html
Nico's contribution as an artist (17 films and 7 LPs) was smothered by gossip or her alleged affairs with men and women, whether Jimi Hendrix or Jeanne Moreau, Brian Jones of the Rolling Stones or Coco Chanel.

[heyamigo]

it's pretty confusing because central theme of the song somewhat vague. i guess edie can still be part of the song but i see it more on nico's side, but the song isn't really clear about what it's trying to say other than saying andy warhol is full of it. the part that got me stuck since the beginning is the first line because who's the 16 year old they're referring to? edie wasn't relevant at age 16, maybe nico was? so was alizee.

i thought it was odd at first that an american with no real french ties (edie) would be what the song is about, but if it is nico, there's definite french ties so that makes more sense. nico lived in paris and modeled there during the 50's. on wiki it says nico recorded a track produced by serge gainsbourg and says she claims to have worked under coco chanel. i see more reasons for french musicians to refer to nico than edie in a song. also nico (nico papatakis) and lou reed are both names of nico's ex-boyfriends.

ultimately i don't think the female(s) in the songs are what needs to be concentrated on. whether its nico or edie, i don't think that's the point, but the point is more about a conniving andy warhol who fails to deliver on his promises of fame and glory and discards them after their "15 minutes of fame" were up. maybe this song is just a straight up comparison of andy to mylene, and not their respective relationships with their starlet(s).

[RMJ]

Nico was around 16 when she became known. I say around, because there's two dates for her birth... Other references says 1938, whilst others claims 1943. Even the country of origin is not agreed.

But if it was 43, it would make her 16 at 1959. She become know in fashion world 1958 or so. Give or take a year.

http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Workshop/5083/nicbiog.html

At the age of 15 she became a model, moving to Paris to work for Coco Chanel.

Says 15 but I would say it's rock solid information... So it's still around 16. And technically, it says she became model at 15. Did she start work for Chanel at age of 16 ?

Yes... I'm very sure it's about Nico. The more and more I think about it, it becomes more obvious explanation.

Tho, I do not rule out Edith. Beside, the song may not be just about one person. And I don't think it is anyways. It's more about group of people who lived the change of world at 50s and 60s. Telling just one little story from that time. What did happen to one small group. How they affected the world around them.

[fsquared]

Nico was around 16 when she became known. I say around, because there's two dates for her birth... Other references says 1938, whilst others claims 1943. Even the country of origin is not agreed.

But if it was 43, it would make her 16 at 1959. She become know in fashion world 1958 or so. Give or take a year.

http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Workshop/5083/nicbiog.html


Says 15 but I would say it's rock solid information... So it's still around 16. And technically, it says she became model at 15. Did she start work for Chanel at age of 16 ?

Yes... I'm very sure it's about Nico. The more and more I think about it, it becomes more obvious explanation.

Tho, I do not rule out Edith. Beside, the song may not be just about one person. And I don't think it is anyways. It's more about group of people who lived the change of world at 50s and 60s. Telling just one little story from that time. What did happen to one small group. How they affected the world around them.


Nooooow it's finally starting to make sense....as someone on mf-international pointed out, Nico had a song called Sixty/Forty. The lyrics are here.

http://smironne.free.fr/NICO/LYRICS/tok04six.html

[theit77]

Nooooow it's finally starting to make sense....as someone on mf-international pointed out, Nico had a big hit with a song called Sixty/Forty. The lyrics are here.

http://smironne.free.fr/NICO/LYRICS/tok04six.html

so what's the significance of that song? any connection?

[Edcognito]

Well, in generally I read // as meaning "does not equal," but I'm not French. Most places I've seen write the title as Fifty-Sixty,

((SNIPPAGE))


Also, Mylène isn't just a producer, she's a singer, and she has a career and legions of fans to attend to. I'm personally very thankful to Mylène for all she did for Alizée, and will remain so unless I hear something straight from Alizée's mouth that says otherwise.

I agree - I've been exposed to various Myléne songs, but i'm not a "FAN". I like her work, and many other french/Quebecois singers. So unless Alizée says something about her relationship with Myléne and LB, then i'm going to have to believe that this is just another example of fan hysteria!

:)


Ed:cool:

[Cooney]

Nooooow it's finally starting to make sense....as someone on mf-international pointed out, Nico had a song called Sixty/Forty. The lyrics are here.

http://smironne.free.fr/NICO/LYRICS/tok04six.html

Now how did we miss that...

/slaps self in face

[Leo Sonidus]

Yet another translation......

Pretty Sixteen,
Belle heroïne des sixties,
Tu te dandines,
T'es divine,
Quand tu danses,
Dans les yeux d'Andy

Adieu bee bop, Plus au top,
C'est le pop-art
Qui te sape
A la trappe,
Pop-corn et oola oop...

Rêve de gloire et de fortune,
Chic en Chanel, l'amour est toujours glamour
Aux expos tu poses et t'exposes,
A 4oo ASA tu oses toutes les poses...

Fifty sixty
Né en cinquante,
Sexy soixante,
Si excitante,
C'est extasie
Candide elle croit, tout ce qu’Andy
Qu'Andy dit d'elle ,
Qu’elle est la plus belle
De toutes les modeles
__________________________________

Pretty sixteen,
Beautiful heroine of the sixties,
You shake your body
you feel divine,
when you dance
For the eyes of Andy...

Goodbye bebop,
On the top,
It's pop-art,
That runs you down,
Into the trap,
Pop-corn and hula hoop...

Dream of fame and fortune,
Chic in Chanel, loving always the glamour,
At expos you pose and expose,
With 400ASA you try every pose.


Fifty sixty,
Born in the fifties,
Sexy sixty,
So excited,
It's ecstasy,
Foolishly she believes, all that Andy,
That Andy tells to her,
That she's the most beautiful
Of all the models

[Fusoya]

Thanks for the translation

[espire]

Okay, you'll notice that I've completed the lyrics and translation. I must admit that RMJ beat me to it, but I will one-up him with my native knowledge of English. Mwaha.

[Leo Sonidus]

Okay, you'll notice that I've completed the lyrics and translation. I must admit that RMJ beat me to it, but I will one-up him with my native knowledge of English. Mwaha.


Heheheheh.... LOL

[davmuz]

Well I thaught it was a lovely translation that seemed to 'Capture the Moment' as we are talking about photography. As an aside, I think Mylene's music is also great and being that there are links, a common assumption could be made, but I don't think that there is actually one. Alizee and her producers strike me as being intelligent enough to carry through an idea, without any crass illusions to a perceived conflict. This stands in its own right, Mylene is probably as proud as us, they are doing there own stuff now and it's good.

[Ben]

Got this a newsletter from ZIARTIST. We all know how they just copy news and rumors from other web sources (forums, etc.), and I don't know where they got this so I can't really vouch for it... but then I don't think they'd fabricate a whole quotation either.

Jean Fauque: "je connais Mylène par ma soeur Maripol qui a été styliste pour elle sur des clips et qui a aussi été styliste sur l'Olympia d'Alizée.J'apprécie beaucoup Mylène et je ne me serais pas amusé avec Jeremy à faire une chanson perfide sur elle,et Alizée à fortiori. Si des gens interprètent le titre qui parle de déchéance comme s'adressant à elle,ils se trompent de personnage".

Umm, too tired to translate, but it's basiaclly Fauque explaining how he knows Mylene Farmer and appreciates her, and wouldn't be happy working on a project that badmouths her. If anyone reads his lyrics that way, it wasn't his intention.

[espire]

Here you go:

I know Mylène through my sister Maripo who had been a stylist for her videos in addition to Alizée's stylist at the Olympia. I enjoy Mylène's work and I would not be amused if Jérémy wrote a derogatory song about her, even more so for Alizée. If people interpret the title which speaks of forfeiture to be about Mylène, they are misleading themselves.

[rcs]

Yeah, I was hoping there wasn't anything derogative towards anyone in the music business. :)

[RMJ]

Somewhat finished lyrics. The translation needs still some tweaking but it's about right. And finally it has no gaps.

Thanks to frenchies who helped with the hard words.


Translation by RMJ with help of anonymous French fan & couple guys (sb483 at least) who gave suggestions


Pretty sixteen,
Beautiful heroine of the sixties,
You hip-swaying,
You are divine,
When you dance,
In the eyes of Andy...

Goodbye bebop,
On the top,
It's pop-art,
That runs you down,
To the trap,
Pop-corn and hula hoop...

Dream of glory and fortune,
Chic in Chanel, love is always glamour,
At exhibitions you pose and expose youself,
To 400ASA you dare all the poses...

Fifty sixty,
Born in the fifties,
Sexy sixties,
So excited,
On ecstasy,
Foolishly she believes, all that Andy,
That Andy tells to her,
That she's the most beautiful
Of all the models...

Like an icon,
Under the Nikon you turn,
The head on the velvet and Nico
Want you far away from Lou Reed
In East Village
There's no age
We are all young
Take along me, yellow taxi
From which the legend comes

Dream of glory and fortune,
Chic in Chanel, love will always be glamour,
I look you in polaroid,
You know the time has not aged at all

Fifty sixty,
Born in the fifties,
Sexy sixties,
So excited,
On ecstasy,
Foolishly she believes, all that we say
What we say about her,
That she's the most beautiful
Of all the models...

The flower power is dead on the dance floor
The electro, the punk does not yet exist
Then our rockers were given, time was changed
The rock rolls on rollers, the pop is popping

The flower power is dead of it's natural death
New wave and techno does not yet exist
Go play your last role, there's no more the dandy
But you still dance in the eyes of Warhol

Fifty sixty,
Born in the fifties,
Sexy sixties,
So excited,
On ecstasy,
Foolishly she believes, all that we say
What we say about her,
That she's the most beautiful
(The most beautiful)

Fifty sixty,
Born in the fifties,
Sexy sixties,
So excited,
On ecstasy,
Foolishly she believes, all that we say
What we say about her,
That she's the most beautiful
Of all the models...



French transcription by French-fan-who-might-not-want-to-be-mentioned & tiny bit lil help from RMJ)


Pretty sixteen,
Belle héroïne des sixties,
Tu te dandines,
T'es divine,
Quand tu danses,
Dans les yeux d'Andy...

Adieu bebop,
Plus au top,
C'est le pop-art,
Qui te sape,
À la trappe,
Pop-corn et hula hoop...

Rêve de gloire et de fortune,
Chic en Chanel, amour est toujours glamour,
Aux expos tu poses et t'exposes,
A 400ASA tu oses toutes les poses...

Fifty sixty,
Né en cinquante,
Sexy soixante,
Si excitante,
S’extasie
Candide elle croit, tout ce qu’Andy,
Qu'Andy dit d'elle,
Qu’elle est la plus belle
De toutes les modèles...

Comme une icône,
Sous le Nikon tu tournes,
La tête au velvet et Nico
Te voudrait, loin de Lou Reed
À East Village
Y'a pas d'âge
On est tous jeunes
Emmène-moi, taxi jaune
La d'où vient la légende

Rêve de gloire et de fortune,
Chic en Chanel, amour sera toujours glamour,
Je te regarde en polaroid,
Tu sais le temps n'a pas pris une ride

Fifty sixty,
Né en cinquante,
Sexy soixante,
Si excitante,
S’extasie
Candide elle croit, tout ce qu'on dit
Ce qu'on dit d'elle
Qu’elle est la plus belle
De tout les modèles...

Le flower power est mort sur le dance floor
L'électro, le punk n'existe pas encore
Alors on remet nos rockeurs, on a changé d'époque
Le rock roule en roller, la pop est en cloque

Le flower power est mort de sa belle mort
New wave et techno n'existent pas encore
Vas-y joue-nous ton dernier rôle, n'est plus là le dandy
Mais tu danses encore dans les yeux de Warhol

Fifty sixty,
Né en cinquante,
Sexy soixante,
Si excitante,
S’extasie
Candide elle croit, tout ce qu'on dit
Ce qu'on dit d'elle
Qu’elle est la plus belle
(La plus belle)

Fifty sixty,
Né en cinquante,
Sexy soixante,
Si excitante,
S’extasie
Candide elle croit, tout ce qu'on dit
Ce qu'on dit d'elle
Qu’elle est la plus belle
de touses les modèles...

[espire]

Okay, I've made a few changes to my translation.

The most notable change is "For exposures you pose and expose yourself." Previously, "expos" was thought to mean the very same thing in English. However, a large part of this song, especially the sections such as the one where this line is located in, revolve around cameras. I've interpreted "expos" as a photograph's exposure, which I think works out better.

There are many smaller changes too, which should make a certain Ronny a little bit more content.

[Ange]

does anyone know who wrote this song?

[RMJ]

The most notable change is "For exposures you pose and expose yourself." Previously, "expos" was thought to mean the very same thing in English. However, a large part of this song, especially the sections such as the one where this line is located in, revolve around cameras. I've interpreted "expos" as a photograph's exposure, which I think works out better.
In which you clearly went wrong since it's obvious that it refers to fashion exhibitions, where she worked for Chanel and other in front of cameras, among all the glory.

[espire]

In which you clearly went wrong since it's obvious that it refers to fashion exhibitions, where she worked for Chanel and other in front of cameras, among all the glory.

In that case, while you have a good point, I'd have to say that either is correct, and this works into a double-entendre. Being deductive is great for science, but I'd say that when interpreting/translating an inductive approach gives much better results.

[maxbest]

Don't know what you guys think, but without MF, Alizee barely attracted any new fans. She had a relatively big fan base when she was with MF, but now she is actually NOT popular.

Before I continue, anyone disagree can just stop reading this because I don't want argue.

Her new CD is good, but not as good as Gourmandises. I've always think MF as Alizee's procuress. Again, I'm replying the topic, if you don't like it, you don't have to read it. With MF's help Alizee gets more customers(in this case more fans) but Alizee does not like that. Alizee is merely a singer of MF and she does not get much money. So she made the choice of leaving MF and starting her own music career.

Anyway, I'm not trying to say Alizee is a prostitude. It's just a comparison I'm making.

[maxbest]

Again, check her new songs' chart positions compare to her old songs' chart positions you'll see the difference.

Personally, I really want to see her teams up with MF again.

[Future Raptor Ace]

Again, check her new songs' chart positions compare to her old songs' chart positions you'll see the difference.

Personally, I really want to see her teams up with MF again.

this is her first album alone, you cant expect her to go #1 on her first try. Where MF has tons of experience and knows the way the game works. Alizee still lacks that experience but she has gained a lot from doing this album alone. The way I see it is this is a learning experience for her and in my opinion she did a great job at it on a regular stand point; yet alone for someones first shot. I personally like this album a lot.

[Deepwaters]

Don't know what you guys think, but without MF, Alizee barely attracted any new fans. She had a relatively big fan base when she was with MF, but now she is actually NOT popular.

Before I continue, anyone disagree can just stop reading this because I don't want argue.


If you don't want to argue, don't talk. If you're going to present controversial points of view, expect argument. Which you are going to get, and no apologies, dude. :p

It's a big exaggeration to say she is NOT popular. She is not AS popular as she used to be, IN FRANCE. Worldwide, I would say she is more popular than ever. As for France, well, that makes sense honestly: she is taking a new musical direction, and a lot of her old fans waited four years to hear something like what attracted them in the beginning, and instead they're hearing something different. Her new music will attract a new audience, but essentially she's starting over.

I like Psychédélices better, overall, than Gourmandises (or MCE). There are two songs on it that do nothing for me, the title cut and L'effet, and even those are very good for what they are and have their devotees. (Including Alizée herself, who has stated that L'effet is her favorite song on the album. Motherhood speaking, perhaps. ;) Or maybe she just likes jazz better than I do.) But I get into the mood and feel of Par les paupieres, Fifty-Sixty, Lilly Town, Lonely Liste, better than I do Moi . . . Lolita, Gourmandises, L'alizé -- which isn't to say that I don't like those songs, of course. I just feel the new ones are truer to who the artist is, and also they have a feel I can relate to better.

Everyone needs to let go of the old Alizée one way or another, because she isn't coming back. It's uncertain whether she will ever again sing anything new by Mylène and Laurent, but I feel we can safely predict that they will never again collaborate full-time as in the past. She'll continue singing her old music as well as the new, but it will change to give it a new feel.

Think of her as a new star -- same person, but with a new persona and new music. If you like this new singer, then stay with her. If not, then move on. But to object that you want the old one back is pointless.

[Camapajama]

If you don't want to argue, don't talk. If you're going to present controversial points of view, expect argument. Which you are going to get, and no apologies, dude. :p

It's a big exaggeration to say she is NOT popular. She is not AS popular as she used to be, IN FRANCE. Worldwide, I would say she is more popular than ever. As for France, well, that makes sense honestly: she is taking a new musical direction, and a lot of her old fans waited four years to hear something like what attracted them in the beginning, and instead they're hearing something different. Her new music will attract a new audience, but essentially she's starting over.

I like Psychédélices better, overall, than Gourmandises (or MCE). There are two songs on it that do nothing for me, the title cut and L'effet, and even those are very good for what they are and have their devotees. (Including Alizée herself, who has stated that L'effet is her favorite song on the album. Motherhood speaking, perhaps. ;) Or maybe she just likes jazz better than I do.) But I get into the mood and feel of Par les paupieres, Fifty-Sixty, Lilly Town, Lonely Liste, better than I do Moi . . . Lolita, Gourmandises, L'alizé -- which isn't to say that I don't like those songs, of course. I just feel the new ones are truer to who the artist is, and also they have a feel I can relate to better.

Everyone needs to let go of the old Alizée one way or another, because she isn't coming back. It's uncertain whether she will ever again sing anything new by Mylène and Laurent, but I feel we can safely predict that they will never again collaborate full-time as in the past. She'll continue singing her old music as well as the new, but it will change to give it a new feel.

Think of her as a new star -- same person, but with a new persona and new music. If you like this new singer, then stay with her. If not, then move on. But to object that you want the old one back is pointless.

I think this is spot-on.
Especially the last point; What is past is exactly it: Past.
Remember, you can always go back on Itunes or Youtube and re-live old memories of Moi...Lolita, and all that stuff.
Alizee is probably, like Deepwaters stated, not going back to the old days.
Whether any of us think it's good or bad, it's probably going to happen.
Either way, I'm guessing our love of her voice and personality won't disappear :) Just enjoy the ride :D
P.S. Hopefully the rumors of her coming to USA will be coming true.. If so, Brad's picture of Kitty has succeeded :p
(see below)

[MonteCristo]

Whew....took me quite a while to read this whole thread.....and boy is it old.
I found it on google while trying to find the songs interpretation. Btw, you all have screwed up suggestions of what this song means. Not that I know of a better one, but have you all ever thought that the song might not be about whats-his-name and whats-her-name? Or if it is, that the song has no relationship to Mylene whatsoever? Anyway.....this thread did help me understand the song more.....so does anyone know what sore eyes and sore throat are symptoms of?

[espire]

We had highly skewed views at the time, because as far as we knew, the transition from Polydor to Wysteria Song was not a pleasant one. Because of this, we inferred that Alizée had realized how much control Mylène Farmer had over her. This control did exist, but we don't know that Alizée was previously unaware of it, or that she disliked the control retroactively.

My original interpretation, though, was very extreme as I first wrote it. If my memory serves me correctly, though, I ended up removing the whole thing after a time.

[heyamigo]

lol i remember all that drama when the song first was leaked with everyone saying this song is about how mylene farmer used and controlled alizee like how warhole did with edie. someone even put this on wikipedia, i hope they removed it by now.

[Roman]

Oh, speaking of which, I just did another translation. http://moi-alizee.us/forums/showthread.php?p=116442#post116442
Should I have read this whole thread first? hmm

[mal]

Clear and direct response to the lyrics forced down Alizee's throat by contract.

"its not even a game
get over your fame
im not twenty"

Alizee being forced and led on to sing a song which made fun of herself was a very French way to kick in her stomach. she sings a song about someone "not twenty". As if to say get overself your just a child.

Response? what? your fifty or sixty years old?


Flower power died on the dance floor
Electronic and punk exist no more
With the age of rock, time was changed
Rock rolls on rollers, pop's been knocked ( ie your pop music is dead and so is your old era)

Flower power died a good death
New wave and techno exist no more
Go play your last role, no longer the model (your done your finished - your no longer pretty)
Yet you still dance in Andy's eyes


However there are some references to andy warhol as well - east village - nikon - sixites. A brilliant writer would have a duble-entendres a la pearl jam.

Def a finger to the fifty or sixty yo woman. her style, dress, performance and music are all a testament of rejection of her former "mentor"/opportunist. But i wish alizee would recognize that she doesnt need to reject all that was farmer brown to maintain her self/dignity.

[Roman]

Clear and direct response to the lyrics forced down Alizee's throat by contract.

"its not even a game
get over your fame
im not twenty"

Alizee being forced and led on to sing a song which made fun of herself was a very French way to kick in her stomach. she sings a song about someone "not twenty". As if to say get overself your just a child.

Response? what? your fifty or sixty years old?


Flower power died on the dance floor
Electronic and punk exist no more
With the age of rock, time was changed
Rock rolls on rollers, pop's been knocked ( ie your pop music is dead and so is your old era)

Flower power died a good death
New wave and techno exist no more
Go play your last role, no longer the model (your done your finished - your no longer pretty)
Yet you still dance in Andy's eyes


However there are some references to andy warhol as well - east village - nikon - sixites. A brilliant writer would have a duble-entendres a la pearl jam.

Def a finger to the fifty or sixty yo woman. her style, dress, performance and music are all a testament of rejection of her former "mentor"/opportunist. But i wish alizee would recognize that she doesnt need to reject all that was farmer brown to maintain her self/dignity.
Oh boy, there's mal being mal again showing us why that screen name. Anyway, I kind of like the phrase "Flower power died a good death" better, but I'm pretty sure that 'something pas encore' means not yet. Electro, punk, new-wave - she is speaking of the time before those came around. Doesn't exist any more would be 'n'existe plus'.

Edit: Oooooh. :p Now I get it. I just did some more research and reading the song "En Cloque" by Renaud convinced me that this term, which would normally translate as "blistering" also means pregnant. So, rock is coming along as if on rollers, and pop is about to be born. So, this is sort of double figurative.

[LL Cool B]

Sorry for digging up an old thread, but didn't want to start a new one.

Every once in a while I check out youtube for anything Alizee. I came across this today and really enjoyed it. I don't know if the creator is a member here or not, but wow, nice job!

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/-bWes8xoIPo&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/-bWes8xoIPo&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[Toc De Mac]

Indeed an excellent version! I seem to remember hearing this a long time ago, but I'm not sure where...

The piano makes the song all the more beautiful and sentimental.

[Just a Guest]

It was made by a Mexican guy.
I re-upped the original zip (dated 2008-10-09), containing 12 tracks, most of them quite nice.
BluesDM.zip / 46MB
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=GG5ON89Q

[LL Cool B]

It was made by a Mexican guy.
I re-upped the original zip (dated 2008-10-09), containing 12 tracks, most of them quite nice.
BluesDM.zip / 46MB
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=GG5ON89Q

Coolio! Thanks. Now I know what I can play when I host my next cockail party:)

[Just a Guest]

Coolio! Thanks. Now I know what I can play when I host my next cockail party:)
hehehe. yeah, they will do just fine for that. :D

[SimonH]

Sweet, ty for this.