What Do You Prefer?

[IOPOP]

Hello Y'all I Was Wondering The Other Day What Do Y'all Prefer? Discovering Alizee In The Early Days, And Having To Wait Four Years For A Come Back, Or Like Some Of Us Finding Her So Close To Her Return But Missing Out On Years Of Enjoying Alizee.

[DannyMac524]

I wish I knew her back then when she first stated. But I like her now and really hope she comes back soon.

[Steven0022]

Hello Y'all I Was Wondering The Other Day What Do Y'all Prefer? Discovering Alizee In The Early Days, And Having To Wait Four Years For A Come Back, Or Like Some Of Us Finding Her So Close To Her Return But Missing Out On Years Of Enjoying Alizee.

I found her in the early days and don't regret a second waiting for her to come back. I think whether you found her early or just found out about her it really doesn't matter cause at least you found her!!! I have Loved Lili for years and will keep loving her till her career is over and after. So whether you found her early or today I don't think it really matters. What does matter is you found her at all!!!

[Cooney]

I found her right in the middle of that four year gap. I very much wish I'd found out about her right when she started. I can put up with a gap, but I regret not having been able to participate in everything when she was going at full previously.

[heyamigo]

i think 4 years of waiting may have been too much...i heard a lot of hardcore fans are now gone from the scene. in a way i'm sort of glad i found out about her relatively recently, because i also might have moved on waiting for that long.

[nurvonic]

like many unfortunate americans, i found out about her just last year. she was practically no where to be found on the internet, nothing obvious anyway. i didnt even hear about mylene farmer until i discovered alizee. i very much would of liked discovering her at the beginning of her career.

[espire]

That's quite the capitalized sentence you've got there, sir.

I discovered Alizée less than a year ago, which I find perfect, as I was happy with Nightwish until they kicked out their lead singer. Right around the switch, I found Lili.

[RadioactiveMan]

I discovered Alizée less than a year ago, which I find perfect, as I was happy with Nightwish until they kicked out their lead singer. Right around the switch, I found Lili.

What does it matter if Tarja is gone? Emppu carries the band anyway.

[espire]

What does it matter if Tarja is gone? Emppu carries the band anyway.

Well, I don't know if it's because she's gone or not that I find the new album bland and with lack of anything unique, but Nightwish is certainly less than it once was because she's gone.

[Rev]

I only found her in April, and this has been enough of a wait. It would have started to be a real downer if she had not launched this year.

[mibir]

Found out about her February 06, been a fun ride.

[marik]

i heard her in 2004 where she isnt fame in here(Philippines)i have notice a commercial regarding the en concert release and i saw it!

later in Dec 2006 i have heard her again and i search a pop songs in Youtube and the rest is history

[rwd716]

I wished I'dve found her back in the day :( O well, I found her just the same. It just woulda been hella more fun I think. This next stint'll still be good for some fun though, I think.

[Aragorn97]

Which do you prefer?
-going to a concert of Alizée;
-Alizée making a new album.

Naturally these options are mutually exclusive for this "poll" and we suppose that both of them would make Alizée and her family happy.
Moreover the above-mentioned concert would be a real one, everything would be well prepared.
And I'm taking for granted that no one here has ever gone to one of her concerts. If you have, would you repeat that experience or do you prefer a new album?

[Fall]

Hello Y'all I Was Wondering The Other Day What Do Y'all Prefer? Discovering Alizee In The Early Days, And Having To Wait Four Years For A Come Back, Or Like Some Of Us Finding Her So Close To Her Return But Missing Out On Years Of Enjoying Alizee.
My own experience was closer to the latter. When I discovered Alizée, she had already returned and the Psych era was just about over. In a little over a year, UEDS would be released. As much as I loved the experience, I'd like to go to some alternate universe where I go through the other one.

Which do you prefer?
-going to a concert of Alizée;
-Alizée making a new album.

Naturally these options are mutually exclusive for this "poll" and we suppose that both of them would make Alizée and her family happy.
Moreover the above-mentioned concert would be a real one, everything would be well prepared.
And I'm taking for granted that no one here has ever gone to one of her concerts. If you have, would you repeat that experience or do you prefer a new album?
Concert for sure. I've already experienced three album releases, but never met Alizée in person. Especially considering the fact that her singing career may be over for good, a concert at this time would be a great close to the chapter.

[CleverCowboy]

Which do you prefer?
-going to a concert of Alizée;
-Alizée making a new album.

Concert. This would be the occasion that I would pay up to get front row.

Then I would upgrade to the "VIP" package if it included a meet and greet. ;)

[Aragorn97]

I'd like to go to some alternate universe where I go through the other one.



Concert. This would be the occasion that I would pay up to get front row.

Then I would upgrade to the "VIP" package if it included a meet and greet. ;)

I would do the same thing.

[Shepherd]

I too would go for the concert, although an album might renew Alizee's career. I would love to see that.

I had planned to attend the Blonde concert in Paris. This would have involved flying from San Antonio, TX, booking a hotel, theater tickets, and other expenses. I was looking at over $5 thousand (includes my wife) to attend a concert. While struggling to get the theater tickets, I discovered Alizee's tour was cancelled.

Then there was her show in Mexico. Mexico borders Texas, but Alizee planned to show in a city over a thousand miles from San Antonio. So again I'm looking at a couple thousand dollars plus the dangers of tourist being preyed upon by gangsters in Mexico. At that time Trump was taking Hispanic kids from their parents and putting the kids in concentration camps located in the deserts of the Texas panhandle. The kids (as young as infants) were housed in tents without air conditioning. Needless to say there was some bad feelings about that down Mexico way. So I was debating whether to risk my life to see Alizee. :fear: I was saved from that decision when that show was cancelled.

If Alizee played a venue as small as a nightclub, I would give serious thought to going there. There is not another entertainer in my lifetime that I would give any thought to expending so much money or exerting so much effort to see. Paying $60 bucks for a ticket to see any entertainer rubs me the wrong way, so you can imagine how much incentive it takes for me to seriously consider expending thousands of dollars and three or four days of my time to travel to the other side of the earth to see one little lady sing a song. :secret:

[Aragorn97]

So again I'm looking at a couple thousand dollars plus the dangers of tourist being preyed upon by gangsters in Mexico. At that time Trump was taking Hispanic kids from their parents and putting the kids in concentration camps located in the deserts of the Texas panhandle. The kids (as young as infants) were housed in tents without air conditioning. Needless to say there was some bad feelings about that down Mexico way. So I was debating whether to risk my life to see Alizee. :fear: I was saved from that decision when that show was cancelled.



Is Mexico really so dangerous? And is Trump so inhumane?

so you can imagine how much incentive it takes for me to seriously consider expending thousands of dollars and three or four days of my time to travel to the other side of the earth to see one little lady sing a song.
It's nice to see so much love for that little lady:D

[Scruffydog777]

Is Mexico really so dangerous? And is Trump so inhumane?



I don't think Trump is any worse to these people than other presidents were. It's a difficult situation. So many people want to cross our border. If we let them all in, then eventually the border wouldn't be worth crossing. So you have many people illegally trying to cross the border. Our agents are not going to put up the ones they catch in a 5 star hotel, so it gets a little dicey at times.

When Alizee was on tour in Mexico, it would have been much easier for me to go down there than to France where the concerts were planned upon her return, but even though there are risks in Paris, I felt my odds of having a safe trip were much better in France, so I waited, then the Paris show was cancelled.

I have to think that if you want to visit Mexico, if you go to a popular site, you should be okay, as long as you don't stray off the beaten path, don't go out on your own and don't have too much to drink, smoke, snort, etc. I believe too that the police down there are very corrupt. If you have your wallet stolen, don't even report it. Accept your losses and be thankful you are still alive.

Another disturbing trend in the past couple of years are places that are serving tainted alcohol. Try to go to the well known resorts where they wont want to have their image tarnished in that way.

[CleverCowboy]

At that time Trump was taking Hispanic kids from their parents and putting the kids in concentration camps located in the deserts of the Texas panhandle. The kids (as young as infants) were housed in tents without air conditioning. Needless to say there was some bad feelings about that down Mexico way.

Just to be fair, the cages were started by the prior President, and the media didn't say a thing.

Anyway, the times I have been to Mexico in the past I didn't feel threatened in any way. The locals were actually quite friendly and accommodating. Right now, I would not consider a trip to Mexico. The cartels are the ones in power now, and they pretty much can do whatever they want.

Edit:

ISo many people want to cross our border. If we let them all in, then eventually the border wouldn't be worth crossing. So you have many people illegally trying to cross the border. Our agents are not going to put up the ones they catch in a 5 star hotel, so it gets a little dicey at times.

Borders need to be enforced. It is what makes a country a country.

[Aragorn97]

Accept your losses and be thankful you are still alive.


Hmm, I see. I should update my knowledge about Mexico. I didn't think the situation was that bad. Anyway, thank you both for the information.

[Scruffydog777]

Hmm, I see. I should update my knowledge about Mexico. I didn't think the situation was that bad. Anyway, thank you both for the information.

Well I think just about every big city in the world has some areas you are better off staying out of. That is true in the city I grew up in and live in today and that is Boston. If you go into certain sections of this city alone and you look like you don't belong, you will probably get either taken advantage of at the least, robbed and/or beaten.

I mentioned the beaten path earlier. As long as you only go into areas where there are plenty of other tourists, you should be fine if you go to Mexico. If you like to have a few drinks, don't have too many.

In our country, our State department has a web site where you can look up if there are travel warnings for different countries. Your countries probably have the same thing.

When I was in Berlin, I either lost my passport or more likely it was picked.

When I was in Riga, Latvia, I had my wallet stolen.

When I was in Paris with two other members here, we got on a metro train and a gypsy woman who had a young girl with her, also tried to pick my pocket. When I travel, I usually put my wallet in my front pocket which makes it a lot harder to pick. That's what saved me in Paris.

In Riga, I had my wallet in my front pocket, but I had stopped in a store to buy a few things before I went back to the hotel and unfortunately I think out of force of habit, after paying for my goods, I stuck it in my back pocket and made myself an easy target.

Some of the lessons I've learned if you are in a foreign country, if you have 2 credit cards with you, when you go out, leave one at the hotel. The same is true of your id's. If you have a passport and a drivers license, leave one at the hotel. In fact, one thing I do which you are not supposed to do is I make a copy of my passport and carry that with me. They may give you a hard time if you have to show it for some reason which I never have had to do, but it will be safe back at the hotel for you to straighten out any problems that arise. The same is true of cash. I usually find it best to get the best deal on currency exchange is to go to a reputable's bank atm and get cash with my atm card. I'll usually get enough to last me for 3 days, but when I go out, I only take half that amount.

[Fall]

Everyone:

Although I strongly agree and disagree with various points and statements made in the last few posts, as a member of Alizée America I cannot add to the conversation. As an Administrator, I have to ask that it ends here. One of our most important rules is to refrain from the discussion of politics. CC and Scruffy, as forum veterans and leaders, you shouldn't be adding to it but setting the example and reminding everyone of the rules.

We are all here as fans of Alizée and her music, and all come from various backgrounds and points of view. Sometimes we can barely discuss her life or her music without resorting to bickering and feuding, there's no telling what would go down if we added things like politics or religion to the mix. Thus, this site is generally dedicated to the discussion of Alizée only; this space in particular, to other miscellaneous topics which we may find interesting. Let's keep the rules in mind so we can continue having this space to do so.

[Scruffydog777]

Yes there were comments that were political in nature, but there was no bickering........no feuding. That line is crossed every once in a while and in this case it was no big deal. When it is, we correct it and move on. As far as this forum being only about Alizee, we do have 'off topic' which usually has nothing to do with Alizee. The same rules that applies to the conversations about Alizee, apply to off topic conversations. There too, the lines will be crossed from time to time and CleverCowboy and Bamagirl who are here on a regular basis and have been doing a very good job, will take action when action 'needs' to be taken. We don't want to turn this into an Alizee Forum, which is no more.

[Fall]

Yes there were comments that were political in nature, but there was no bickering........no feuding. That line is crossed every once in a while and in this case it was no big deal. When it is, we correct it and move on. As far as this forum being only about Alizee, we do have 'off topic' which usually has nothing to do with Alizee. The same rules that applies to the conversations about Alizee, apply to off topic conversations. There too, the lines will be crossed from time to time and CleverCowboy and Bamagirl who are here on a regular basis and have been doing a very good job, will take action when action 'needs' to be taken. We don't want to turn this into an Alizee Forum, which is no more.
Scruffy, you seem to have misinterpreted my post entirely.

To clarify:
1. No, there was no bickering and no feuding in this case. I said that on many occasions members of this forum bicker and feud over topics we love, like Alizée and her music. We clearly don't all agree on other matters, and so it stands to reason that we should avoid those topics if we already bicker and feud over things we have in common.

2. This is a correction before the issue becomes a big deal. It shouldn't ever become a big deal. I'm here to make sure that it doesn't.

3. I stated that the forum is *generally* dedicated to the discussion of Alizée only. Further, I stated that this space (as in, the Off Topic section) in particular, is dedicated to other miscellaneous topics we might find interesting. I did not say that we only talk about Alizée or that we're meant to. Quite a big chunk of my total post count can be found on the Off Topic forum. I have created Off Topic threads. I post non-Alizée music regularly.

4. I visit and monitor the site near daily. I just don't always log in.

5. If you'll notice, I haven't closed the thread, locked it, or reprimanded any user. I posted a reminder of the rules and asked that the discussion of politics come to an end. In fact, I also previously contributed to the conversation started by the OP and Aragorn's excellent thread revival. I can't say that I have any experience with Alizée Forum, as I never joined the site. Perhaps other AF members like Jenny, Plaz, or Merci Alizée would like to comment on what I have done versus the moderation on that site.

[Aragorn97]

Sorry, Fall, I need clarification on this: when you talk about rules, do you mean a sort of list of rules (which is somewhere on the forum) or are you referring to "common sense" (unwritten) rules?

[Scruffydog777]

......... If you'll notice, I haven't closed the thread, locked it, or reprimanded any user. .

To think you even had a notion of taking any action like that is f'ing unbelievable! This is not going to be a forum run by forum nazis who ran the much larger Alizee forum into the ground and it is no more.

I object to what you said, when you said it and especially in the way you said it. CleverCowboy and Bamagirl have done a great job of policing this forum and if you were here as often as you said you were, you'd know that.

The way this forum is policed is in words Aragorn just mentioned, "common sense".

[Bamagirl]

To think you even had a notion of taking any action like that is f'ing unbelievable! This is not going to be a forum run by forum nazis who ran the much larger Alizee forum into the ground and it is no more.

I object to what you said, when you said it and especially in the way you said it. CleverCowboy and Bamagirl have doing a great job of policing this forum and if you were here as often as you said you were, you'd know that.

The way this forum is policed is in words Aragorn just mentioned, "common sense".

All this talk about avoiding anything to do with “politics” is basically silly. I agree with moderators of discussion groups curbing very ugly arguments that devolve into nothing more than name calling or personal attacks. But just because a respectful discussion touches on the mention of a country, public figure or leader, political climate, societal norms or various laws and customs, that should not automatically preclude its inclusion in a civil conversation. Depending on how broadly one defines “politics,” it is virtually impossible to avoid it in some form in an intelligent discussion that is of any length.

I don’t believe there has been anything the least bit disrespectful or unpleasant about the posts in this thread. Though there have been some disagreements, the posts have been primarily informational and written with courtesy and sincerity. It’s a shame to hear the implied threat of censorship for something so mild.

[Shepherd]

Is Mexico really so dangerous?


The gangs in Mexico are real and they do prey on tourist. When Alizee went there, she had a team of bodyguards. Having said that, the situation is not as dark as I originally portrayed. My statement that I would risk my life going to Mexico to see Alizee was romantic hyperbole. If you go to Mexico, the odds are heavy in your favor that nothing untoward will happen. Although in recent years I have avoided Mexico, I have been there many times without a problem. My sister still goes there for a vacation every year without a concern for her safety.

The number of tourists visiting Mexico soared, reaching 35 million visitors, up 9% from 2015. In the first three months of 2017, the country saw record numbers, with 9.3 million visitors bringing in $5 billion in revenue.

One of the reasons I chose to retire in San Antonio is that Hispanics dominate the population here. I like the food, the people, and the culture. Although there are Hispanic gangsters, and they can be horrible, most Hispanics are devout Catholics dedicated to their families. They are some of the hardest working people you will ever find. Like every ethnic group, there are good ones and bad ones, but the vast majority are good. :)

As for Trump, I'll let history be the judge.

[Aragorn97]

Well I think just about every big city in the world has some areas you are better off staying out of. That is true in the city I grew up in and live in today and that is Boston. If you go into certain sections of this city alone and you look like you don't belong, you will probably get either taken advantage of at the least, robbed and/or beaten.

I mentioned the beaten path earlier. As long as you only go into areas where there are plenty of other tourists, you should be fine if you go to Mexico. If you like to have a few drinks, don't have too many.



The gangs in Mexico are real and they do prey on tourist. When Alizee went there, she had a team of bodyguards. Having said that..........

.....

Like every ethnic group, there are good ones and bad ones, but the vast majority are good. :)

As for Trump, I'll let history be the judge.

Understood. Thanks for the explanation. I was a bit surprised because it seemed that you were talking about the Old West rather than a modern country. I suppose what Scruffydog says is true: every city has its own "bad" areas.
I live near Naples, which is commonly known for crime (mafia, pickpockets and stuff like that). I go there almost everyday for university but also for a walk with my family or friends every now and then. Usually, if you don't go to very particular areas, you are OK, you just have to watch out for pickpockets, because you never know.
I mean, the level of petty crime is a little more serious than it is in other cities. But there are also some other disreputable areas, where you know that if you go there, you won't be back: I mean that you look at a guy and think "will he kill me with a knife or a gun?". But, a part from rare cases, everyone knows what areas you should avoid. So if there are other people on the streets, just mind your pockets because there are usually many, many other people. Unfortunately Naples is a magnificent city with a lot of beauties but also many problems.
It seems that I'm talking about the Old West too lol but I would always recommend visiting Naples to anyone: if you are a visiting tourist, just be a bit more alert than usual, because you will never end up near those areas.

Even Alizée came here once... Obviously I lost the chance to meet her :)

[Silencio]

I live near Naples
Wow! So you must be familiar with some of the locations used in this video :confused: ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDWFVI8PQOI

[Aragorn97]

Wow! So you must be familiar with some of the locations used in this video :confused: ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDWFVI8PQOI

:O
Really nice video! Thanks for sharing :D
And yes, I know most of those locations. I really like the street where those two girls are dancing (1:04). It is a long seafront, where there are lots of glamorous hotels, pizzerie and that castle in the middle of the sea.

[Bamagirl]

:I know most of those locations. I really like the street where those two girls are dancing (1:04). It is a long seafront, where there are lots of glamorous hotels, pizzerie and that castle in the middle of the sea.

It sounds lovely! I would love to visit Naples one day.

[Aragorn97]

I would love to visit Naples one day.

I hope you will. :D There is a lot of stuff to see.

[Merci Alizée]

Sorry, Fall, I need clarification on this: when you talk about rules, do you mean a sort of list of rules (which is somewhere on the forum) or are you referring to "common sense" (unwritten) rules?

These are the rules we try to follow



There aren't many rules here, but we thought it about time to post the few that we do have.

Moderators take a hands off approach on pretty much everything within reason, except for the following:

1. anything that would offend Alizée
2. political/religious discussion (this isn't the place, we delete all political threads)
3. spam (and ban the user)
4. audio or video of official Alizée material that can be purchased

Keep in mind that this forum is open to everyone, including children, so we try to keep things like language or graphic images at a "PG-13" level or under.

You may also notice us doing stuff behind the scenes, like moving threads or posts. You needn't worry about this, we just ask that you cooperate with us.


Thanks, and enjoy the forum!

AlizeeAmerica.com Staff

[Aragorn97]

These are the rules we try to follow

Okay. Everything's clear.:thumb:

[Scruffydog777]

To mention these rules without including common sense is complete bull shit!

With little coming from Alizee, it's hard to keep fan interest up. One of the best things we have are our conversations and these conversations often stray over the line. When they go to far, they are policied. The last thing we need in this forum is someone standing over us saying "Schweinhund.....you can't say church in this forum!!!".


As far as the rules, look at this picture.......

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Oh my God!!!!!! There's an image of my Lord Jesus Christ hanging from a cross. We can't have that.

2922

Oh my God!!!!! There's also a priest and an altar boy in the picture.......

2923

Oh my God!!!! There's other religious figures in the background.....

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Much better but Oh my God!!!!....I'm not supposed to be saying Oh my God!

What about this picture of Annily? Uh oh!!!!.....she's holding a bible! Where are the Nazis when you need them?

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Now kidding aside, questions might arise from these pictures from people who don't know the religion and those questions in the conversations they lead to, can very easily go off the topic of the event and that is pure horse shit that something like that can't be allowed.

What we need on many occasions is something that should supersede those rules and it's as aragorn mentioned, common sense.

CleverCowboy and Bamagirl are relatively new as mods here and they are still learning the ropes, but I think they are doing a great job. Leave them the hell alone! If you question something they do or say, send them a pm or post something in the mod's forum, but don't call them out in front of everyone in the forum!



Edit:

............

[Bamagirl]

What we need on many occasions is something that should supersede those rules and it's as aragorn mentioned, common sense.

CleverCowboy and Bamagirl are relatively new as mods here and they are still learning the ropes, but I think they are doing a great job. Leave them the hell alone! If you question something they do or say, send them a pm or post something in the mod's forum, but don't call them out in front of everyone in the forum!
............

Thanks, Scruffy. You did a great job making your point! I agree that when the conversational rules get too strict, then conversation will simply dry up. As I mentioned before, avoiding ALL mention of anything relating to politics--or religion, too--is virtually impossible. If a conversation progresses, it will sooner or later touch on on of the forbidden topics, especially if they are loosely defined as such.

As your photos make very clear, the subject of this forum--Alizée--certainly indicates her own religious beliefs in many of her photos. Like this one, recently posted on the "Team AliGrég" Facebook Page:

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I think that is is true that certain topics are more likely than others to deteriorate into ugly arguments. On the other hand, it really depends upon the participants. Some people will argue about anything. For example, I belong to a Shakespeare group on Facebook. There was recently a very unpleasant back and forth regarding a comment made about Ophelia. Some people just can't be civil, no matter the topic.

But, unless that happens here, I say that we should let all conversations proceed naturally. Moderators should only step in if things get really personal or ugly or, of course, if there are things posted that would be embarrassing or offensive to Alizée or her family. So let's all just have common sense, as Aragorn and you both said!

[Fall]

Ok well clearly absolutely anything I say or do is some vicious attack that deserves expletives and rants and being equated to a Nazi. Apparently everything I say is a vicious attack to Bamagirl and CleverCowboy and their abilities as moderators. But perhaps somehow, SOMEHOW, this post will not be interpreted that way. I would invite the people who I am apparently insulting, to please let me know if I have offended you as grievously as implied.

Aragorn asked for what rules I was referring to. While asking Merci Alizée to activate a new user (mind you, we live on opposite sides of the world so I was on my way to bed while he was about to get off work) I asked him to please respond to Aragorn with the rules posted by Ben/Brad. That doesn't mean that common sense doesn't also apply, it is simply the answer to the question that was asked.

Nobody has ever censored Alizée's faith. I wouldn't be the first. I am a practicing Catholic, an Immigrant, and also Hispanic/Latino. I really don't know how welcome I would be by the actual Nazis that live in this country. :13: Therefore, I do not appreciate being equated to a Nazi in any respect. It's not a joke. It's not funny.

[Scruffydog777]

I just posted this in response to a Messenger post from Fall. I was going to leave it there, but it looks like I have to post it here now...

Not too long ago, I recommended to Ben that he make CleverCowboy and Bamagirl mods. He asked me at that time if I wanted to be made a mod again and I said no because I to tend to get very upset about things and say things I shouldn't say and I knew if something happened I was very upset with, I'd speak my mind and it wouldn't be pretty.

I know Bamagirl personally. Me and her talk about things often outside of Alizee. Though her knowledge of Alizee isn't as vast as ours, like I said, I know her and know she's a woman of high values who I thought would bring those values to this forum.

At that time, I mentioned me and CleverCowboy wanted to buy the server so we could make much needed changes to the forum. We both discussed how to do it and we said we'd split the cost of buying the server from Ben and whatever costs there would be in running the server. Ben was okay with that, but he said it would take time to clear some of his files off that server.

Conversations about that and conversations about how Ray was running this forum, led us to speak on a regular basis.

Though I'm not a mod, I'm in here just about every day. I can't see everything that goes on, but I'm often reporting in the mods forum things I see wrong and to Bamagirl and CC who I often communicate with anyways
The big problem here is there is so little coming from Alizee. I'm so glad for her that the second baby she wanted is here. Now she has everything she wanted and deserves in life (or does she.....another subject). So though we're all happpy for her, the fans aren't here for the baby. They are here to see her on stage again in some form be it singing or acting or dancing.

Bearing that in mind, it is so tough to keep up interest in the forum. You can only keep posting the same videos and pictures over and over again so many times. So in my mind, we can't be that strict with the rules.

Ray was a mod in here not that long ago. When I spoke of good conversations that were going on and someone would end them, it was specifically he who I had in mind. A couple of times me and CC had good conversations going and Ray came along and say "Off topic".....gotta break it up and move it to who knows where?

Ray was very popular with some of the younger members, but Ray kept all the conversations in chat where visitors to this forum can't see them.Probably 90% of the conversations were taking place in chat. He even made fun of me in my suggestions in my battle to change it back to the way it should be. In the end, he got upset and left which is too bad. He did bring a lot to this forum, but now that he's left, about 95% of the conversations take place in the forum where they should be instead of in chat.

So MerciAlizee shows up and lays out the rules. I have a lot of respect for all he's done for this forum. He was always the voice of reason, especially with troublesome members like me, but he doesn't know the current state of the forum. We, you (Fall), me, CC, Bamagirl, are fighting on a daily basis to keep up enough interest to have this forum survive in the remote chance that something does come along.

We can't go hard and fast by those rules. We have to use common sense and act, only when there is a need to act.

We'll make mistakes....we'll correct them and we'll move on.

Bottom line, our active mods need the flexibility to determine when something is right or something is wrong. When a mod thinks something is wrong and it has something to do with another mod, they need to communicate in private. After that, only then, should they bring it to a higher authority or maybe even discuss it in the open forum.

[CleverCowboy]

I had been out of town since last Friday with no internet, so I definitely have missed a lot. I am going to respond here to what has been posted lately. I have not thought about the content of my response here, which is rare for me because I tend to overthink everything.

It is my experience on this forum that threads go off-topic frequently and then tend to get back on track. I never had any issues with it. This thread was no different, and even though we have a "no religion, no politics" forum rule, the fact is that this rule can easily be violated, and has been violated. Religion and politics intertwine with everyday life in so many ways that it almost cannot be avoided.

If somebody mentions "Jesus" or "Buddha", that is not violating the religion rule in my opinion. They are historical figures. If somebody mentions that a country is defined by its borders, like I did, that does not violate the politics rule in my opinion. The same goes for immigration, whether legal or illegal, as long as facts are stated. However, if a discussion turns to immigration policies, then it starts delving into dangerous territories that might start bickering in our forum.

I have never wanted to over-police this forum and it has been my personal policy to let conversations flow as long as we are respectful to each other and Alizee and her loved ones. Disagreements can add a little spice. Time and time again our members disagree while discussing something and it passes and we move on and no hurt feelings.

Now on to the responses I have earlier in this thread. There has been a story that the media circulated for a while that the way the US treats those crossing our southern border is similar to "concentration camps", and that was brought up by a member in this thread. The similarity was not started by the member, but echoed what had been the mantra of the media who is very hostile towards our sitting President. Getting a little personal here, I am am immigrant's son. Both my mother's and father's families immigrated to the U.S. thanks to the Displaced Persons Act of 1948. My parents did not know each other in the "old country" which is modern day Belarus, but each family had to endure having their villages razed by the Nazis and being shipped by train to Germany to labor in real concentration camps. They were not Jewish but that didn't mean they were treated differently. They just worked you until you died. I've heard all the stories and it was real hell. If it weren't for the American soldiers that liberated their camps, neither parent would have survived.

I would have defended the US treatment of illegal immigrants no matter who was president because using the words "concentration camp" alludes to the atrocities of WW2. While by definition you can use it synonymous with "detention center" which would be the preferred term, the former term is used by the media for the sole purpose of tainting the public opinion of the current administration. I'm sure I fed the fire by my post saying the cages were started by the prior administration. While it is actually the case, I should have held my emotions in check but sometimes they get the best of me.

And for the record, just in case anybody misunderstood what I said in an earlier post. I have absolutely nothing against the average Mexican person. During my decades living near Houston, I have had countless Mexican friends and acquaintances. They have helped shape the Texas culture, which is truly unique. It is true though that Americans are the favored targets of crime in Mexico. I don't think there is any revenge factor associated with it other than the illusion that Americans are likely to have more money than other tourists.

If I offended anybody by my posts in this thread, let me assure you that it was not intentional.

[Scruffydog777]

Very well said by CleverCowboy. That's why he's a mod and I'm not. In the conversations that go on here, everything isn't black and white. There are a lot of gray areas. We can't go by the hard and fast rules MerciAlizee laid out for us. We have to use good judgement. We have to use common sense. This forum has been run very well of late by our 3 active mods. If there's an issue in here, let them work it out in private, then take action if any action needs to take place.

Edit:

I just wanted to add a couple of things. I recently started a thread about Alizee holiday pictures and I mentioned in that post I wanted to name it Christmas pictures but with my experience here,I knew someone might get their knickers in a twist, so I made it about 'holiday pictures' and it shouldn't be that way.

Everytime I go on vacation, whenever I pass a church, I stop in and say a few prayers for various things and in the Catholic church, they have these statues where you can buy a candle as an offering and say a prayer to various saints. This is a picture of one church I stopped at in Trieste. I usually get one for each of the various things I want to pray for. On this occasion, I bought six. One was for Alizee. I prayed that all would go well for her and the baby.

Those who've been here a while have seen me post pictures of this type of thing before and they know as always, I place her candle at the front of the 'stage' as I refer to it.

I didn't post it at the time because again, I was worried it would offend someone, after all, with what I usually say about it like what I said here can fall under 'religious discussion'.

Is a picture like this permitted? If so.......why? In the black and white of the rules here, it's a violation!

I'm sure Alizee would be deeply bothered by the fact that a fan mentioned her and what was at the time, her baby on the way, in his prayers.

After all I've said in this thread, I'll have to go to confession.......Oooooooops!....Can't say that here.

2929

[Shepherd]

I had no intent to set off all the pyrotechnics that my comments made, and, for that, I apologize to AAm. The last thing I want now is to get down in the mud and the blood to grapple with people I have a genuine fondness for. However, after the moderators clarified the rule against political discussion, they discussed politics, making some points I passionately disagree with. Now I demand a moment to have my say. After which I will happily leave the topic behind in the dust.

The point was made that the children are not being held in concentration camps. It’s true the children are not retained in Nazi styled death camps or slave camps, but they are being held in concentration camps somewhere between the Nazis camps and the facilities run to contain the Japanese in the USA during WWII.

“At least eight children are known to have died in immigration custody since last year, after almost a decade in which no child reportedly died while in the custody of U.S. Customs and Border Protection.” One died of the flu just two days ago. He lay dead on the floor for four hours before the staff found him. The reason we know this is that security cameras recorded the boy’s death.

The cages were indeed constructed under Obama, but as temporary containment facilities in which families were not separated. “Temporary” as in hours, not days, weeks, or months as they are currently being used. These cages have no facilities for overnight containment. They have benches with no backs to sit on and nothing more. The children in them have nothing to occupy themselves during the day and must sleep on the floor without mattresses or pillows. The conditions are torturous. When circumstances allow, the children are removed to privately run, for profit tent cities surrounded by barbed wire where they are kept indefinitely—in other words concentration camps.

The logic for separating children from their parents is to terrorize foreigners from coming to the USA. The reason for locking up children I hear from my conservative friends (most of whom are Christians—for crying out loud) is that “Well, they broke the law, so . . .. We are talking about children so young that legally they cannot break the law. Also, it is not a violation of the law to enter the USA without a visa then apply for asylum. The USA has never separated children in-mass (by the thousands) from their parents before. When parents are abusive, yes, the government has separated families, but for the good of the children. In this instance, “for the good of the children” is not a consideration. There are numerous studies showing that “institutionalizing” children has negative lifelong impacts. There is no reason to separate families other than to purposely inflict cruelty as a political strategy. Trump’s policy is intentionally designed to inflict injury.

The United States should be better than that.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzZwca4rEWc

https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a27813648/concentration-camps-southern-border-migrant-detention-facilities-trump/


https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/23/opinion/trump-migrants-camps.html

This video is not of an actual court scene. Because cameras are not allowed in the court, this video is a reenactment of what happens in court.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ztvPsJmIcU&t=8s

[Aragorn97]

It's ironic how the discussion about the rule generated more quarrels than what the rule itself should have censored in order to prevent quarrels...

If you don't mind my saying, I think this is all a big misunderstanding. I don't know what has happened in the past, but I think that both Fall and Scruffydog are right. The problem is how everything was exposed.

It is true that politics and religion are two delicate matters that almost always generate unhealthy discussions. For example, there is one of my closest friends who is... Let's say red; when we were in high school we used to talk about our political ideas a lot, but we always ended up arguing heavily. So we commonly decided that we would never speak together about our political opinions any more.
The problem is that we also argue about sports and all "unimportant" stuff. He is irascible and I'm stubborn, so anything can be fuel for futile fights. I think this happens all the time with other people, too. But if you don't know well your interlocutor, you can't know what topics you should avoid and/or how you should say certain things. You may hit a nerve without knowing it. And I think that's is what happened here.
Maybe it was just a excess of zeal by Fall and this might have "offended" Scruffydog for a thousands possible reasons.

I also agree with Scruffydog about the "common sense" thing. Because, let's be honest, censorship is wrong, but without rules there is chaos. I like how things go here. I don't know anyone of you, but all the digressions I have read on this forum are good, because they are something that make members' personalities stand out. So on this forum I feel as though I'm at bar with all of you, speaking about what we love. That's what a forum was, thousands years ago.

So I think that Fall just wanted to act before anything could go wrong. The same way Scruffydog wanted prevent the beginning of a new era, a new reign of censorship and terror, where everything people are told is just "off-topic!" MUAHAHAHHAHAH. Ok, no, sorry.

Anyway, that's what I saw. I don't know what happened in the past among the members of this forum, it's just that, as I said, everything is a misunderstanding to me and none of you seem to have had bad intentions.
Please, don't take this post as an offense, I may be wrong, but this is what I see from my perspective

[Scruffydog777]

............ I like how things go here..............

I think that's a very important thing Aragorn97 said. " I like how things go here." Things have been going well. Don't fix what isn't broken. Our 3 mods have been doing a good job. Let them use their discretion, their judgement, their wisdom and of course common sense to run this forum with the rules spelled out by MerciAlizee as a reference, not as concrete walls that can't be breached.

[CleverCowboy]

Maybe it's a good thing we air things out every so often. I think the members of this forum are much more civil than a few other forums I have been a member of in the past, and those were professional forums.

I'm still unclear what the first forum rule really means:

1. anything that would offend Alizée

Since none of us really knows what offends Alizee, we just have to make our best judgement. We have talked about (and sometimes criticized) her tattoos, concert outfits, music, etc. We assume that Alizee does not wear her feelings on her shoulders and she probably doesn't. What is a no-brainer is that we do not insult or criticize anybody that is close to her, and I cannot think of one post where this has been done.

All in all, this is a good forum. If our wishes come true and Alizee releases another album, this place will become very busy again, and moderating will be increasingly challenging.

But until then, which may never happen, I'm going to keep focused on our girl.

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/3537/ocU10d.gif

[Bamagirl]

I don't know anyone of you, but all the digressions I have read on this forum are good, because they are something that make members' personalities stand out. So on this forum I feel as though I'm at bar with all of you, speaking about what we love. That's what a forum was, thousands years ago....

...Please, don't take this post as an offense, I may be wrong, but this is what I see from my perspective

Aragorn, you are a shining light in this forum! I hope you never leave. And please don’t worry—there was nothing in your post to take offense at. Your posts are always polite and thoughtful. Thank you!

[Fall]

Bamagirl is correct in saying that political or religious discussions are near unavoidable. In fact, there are so many tells in one's language and conversation that you don't need to be some kind of analyst to figure out their leanings or values.

The very fact that both Scruffy and CC felt the inclination to defend the current administration and policy tells you where they likely stand. Having "known them" in some fashion, over the last year or years, I already had some idea of where they stand.

So place yourself in my shoes as a moderator when, as CC himself noted, a member uses the media's term of "concentration camp" to describe the ICE detention centers. And another asks if Trump is really that "inhumane." Consider also that Scruffy is self-admittedly hot tempered and has directed his temper at me on more than one occasion.

I figured, I should probably break up this discussion before Scruffy explodes on said members (one of them being relatively new) for their comments. Unfortunately, while my actions prevented an issue with them, it was directed towards me.

I wasn't trying to censor anyone, and I resent the implication. I also resent the implication that I don't approve of off topic conversations, when if that was the case, AAm would be the polar opposite of my happy place. It is not that I wanted to stamp out off topic conversation, I wanted to prevent a huge argument, and of course to remind everyone that political discussion is against forum rules.*

All in all, I would agree that this was a misunderstanding of near cosmic proportions :eek::rolleyes::p

* To further clarify, those are not simply Merci Alizée's rules, but ones laid out by Brad and Ben, founders and owners of the forum.

[Shepherd]

Here, we have a perfect example why the "No Politics Rule" was made and should be abided by. I agree, however, with Scruffy that the rule should not be dogmatize and enforced by an Inquisition. Subjects like politics and religion should be allowed, if delicately handled . . . like hot potatoes. :runaway: Of course, by making the rule's edges fuzzy, we compound the moderators' headaches. God bless to all of you. :mom:

None of us came to this site to argue. During the years I've been an AAm member, I interacted with quite a few people who I've grown to like and admire, people who I count as friends. It would be tragic to lose that over an argument that neither of us has the power to change.

Now, I would like to move on.

[Aragorn97]

Aragorn, you are a shining light in this forum! I hope you never leave. And please don’t worry—there was nothing in your post to take offense at. Your posts are always polite and thoughtful. Thank you!

Wow, thanks for your nice words, Bamagirl :p

[Scruffydog777]

Since the subject first came up here, this is where I'll place this post. Me, Fall, Bamagirl, and CleverCowboy have had some tough discussion in private, about the rules that govern this forum. We've come to the agreement that we will use the rules spelt out by MerciAlizee as guidelines, but when those guidelines are exceeded, gives the members with the power to do so the ability to determine when and if action needs to be taken. Once those new rules/guidelines have been agreed to, they'll be posted.

That being said, I'd like to apologize to Fall, for comments I made directed towards him and I'd like to apologize to the whole forum for the language I used.

As far as the language I used, one of this group, let me know that a 'temporary' ban, maybe a couple of weeks (still under discussion) needs to be imposed on me, after all, no one here is above the rules, but because of the importance of my role in the 'gift for Alizée and Maggy' project and the level of the infractions, that ban, it is felt at this point, should be delayed until that job is done.

[Bamagirl]

Since the subject first came up here, this is where I'll place this post. Me, Fall, Bamagirl, and CleverCowboy have had some tough discussion in private, about the rules that govern this forum. We've come to the agreement that we will use the rules spelt out by MerciAlizee as guidelines, but when those guidelines are exceeded, gives the members with the power to do so the ability to determine when and if action needs to be taken. Once those new rules/guidelines have been agreed to, they'll be posted.

That being said, I'd like to apologize to Fall, for comments I made directed towards him and I'd like to apologize to the whole forum for the language I used.

As far as the language I used, one of this group, let me know that a 'temporary' ban, maybe a couple of weeks (still under discussion) needs to be imposed on me, after all, no one here is above the rules, but because of the importance of my role in the 'gift for Alizée and Maggy' project and the level of the infractions, that ban, it is felt at this point, should be delayed until that job is done.

Scruffy, you are a class act for wanting to own up and take responsibility for something you did that you feel was wrong. I think you are a great example to the members of this forum. Soon, we hope to have very clear guidelines to post that will be helpful for everyone to understand what is acceptable and what is not in the forum discussions.

[Scruffydog777]

Scruffy, you are a class act for wanting to own up and take responsibility for something you did that you feel was wrong. I think you are a great example to the members of this forum. Soon, we hope to have very clear guidelines to post that will be helpful for everyone to understand what is acceptable and what is not in the forum discussions.

Thank you but I certainly wouldn't say that because I know me. I get too upset by certain things. That's why when Ben asked me recently if I wanted to be an admin again, I turned him down. I need to be administered, not administrating.