"Alizée America" Promo Items - Concepts !

[The Cap]

Here are a few conceptual items to promote the "Alizée America" website, along with approximate pre-shipping pricing. This should give everyone some idea of what's available. Final production colors would be as pictured in the sampler sheet - mostly the site colors : white, black and red. I'm using the current front-runner in the logo competition - logo #1 by a landslide so far - to prototype these images

I doubt it's realistic to have all of these available for sale, so I'm hoping to gauge the reaction to some of the items and maybe put together a short list, from which we could select maybe three or so to actually make available.

http://moi-alizee.us/forums/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=38580&g2_serialNumber=1&g2_GALLERYSID=7099d372787d639377130923335b8ff8

Let's hear what you think, folks. Don't be shy ... ;)

[penguinluvr91]

good job.....i really like the shirts

[Steven0022]

I Like the shirts and the white hat best, the mousepad would be cool but would get dirty to quickly.

[SilentFox]

Thats so cool there Cap! like the shirts alot and the hats!

[AmericanFan]

If there is a profit... where does it go?
I think it would be awesome if we did something like this where the proceeds went somewhere like a dance school in Alizee's name or something.
I'd be willing to pay extra if it did.

[penguinluvr91]

If there is a profit... where does it go?
I think it would be awesome if we did something like this where the proceeds went somewhere like a dance school in Alizee's name or something.
I'd be willing to pay extra if it did.

thats a really good idea.....image how Alizée would react if she found out that there was a dance school named after her........

[heyamigo]

profits should be donated to brad, imo.

[SilentFox]

profits should be donated to brad, imo.

I could see that way..can be put forth to the website! :)

[AmericanFan]

I have no problem supporting the site however I don't believe anyone should exploit Alizee for profit. There has been enough of that already!

[Sir Wood]

LOL, I never noticed that there was a "www" in the URL. I thought it was just "moi-alizee.us". :o

[Youpidou1]

Here are a few conceptual items to promote the "Alizée America" website, along with approximate pre-shipping pricing. This should give everyone some idea of what's available. Final production colors would be as pictured in the sampler sheet - mostly the site colors : white, black and red. I'm using the current front-runner in the logo competition - logo #1 by a landslide so far - to prototype these images

I doubt it's realistic to have all of these available for sale, so I'm hoping to gauge the reaction to some of the items and maybe put together a short list, from which we could select maybe three or so to actually make available.

http://moi-alizee.us/forums/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=38580&g2_serialNumber=1&g2_GALLERYSID=7099d372787d639377130923335b8ff8

Let's hear what you think, folks. Don't be shy ... ;)

CAP. Seriously E-mail me or PM me with when you will come out with all this, guess what my Christmas shopping spree is getting spent on? Not a joke I want a mug and a golf shirt and a T-shirt.

[JCC]

NICE!!! I'll take 4 Ringer shirts, a Mug, and a couple of Mousepads. Do you take Dollars or Francs?

Lets all buy some stuff so when we all go2 Mexico, we will be VERY WELL represented!

[Youpidou1]

NICE!!! I'll take 4 Ringer shirts, a Mug, and a couple of Mousepads. Do you take Dollars or Francs?

Lets all buy some stuff so when we all go2 Mexico, we will be VERY WELL represented!

I think AA deserves some credit. Obviously we are trying to get her known here right, by wearing the shirts we are showing that foreign music is just as good or even better than your favorite music.

[The Cap]

I've been getting PMs and public postings insisting that others in the forum can get this whole AA promotional thing done better, higher quality, cheaper, what have you. I'm trying to get this done and "out there" with as little trouble as ossible, but others insist they can do it better. There are also continued worries about licensing issues. Take, for example, this from an associated thread :

Also keep in mind it's not just a matter of using the Logo, but it's also a matter of licensing. I would think (hope) Alizee will be developing some marketing products in the future, and perhaps will license certain aspects of these products. A failure to challenge unlicensed vendors can undermine one's ability to garner vendors willing to license products. After all, why should a vendor pay a license fee if they can produce the product without a license?

Second, failure to protect one's copyright can sometimes be interpreted by acceptance of not only the specific infringement but of other infringements associated with the copyright. For example, if we sold T-shirts that should otherwise by licensed, and Alizée did not move to protect those rights, then one could interpret the non-action on the T-shirts as a defacto approval of this site in general, to include the use of other copyrighted material. This can get very complicated.

IANAL.

I believe the best approach is to go with our own special site name version, and avoid the possible heartache involved othewise.


**********

On a side note, I've been look at several vendors online and have found one with T prices in the $10 range, to include 10000 stitch embroidery.

You make good points, and I do not disagree. Even with our own design for a site name logo, we're still at some small risk for violation of licensing rights, just by using the name "Alizée".

As to your shirt source ... I'm putting in a ton of time doing all this stuff (did you see the AA promo items concept thread yet?). Yet there are people who believe they've found a better source, higher quality, cheaper pricing, whatever. So, I'm going to lay it out in plain text - if you've got a better idea for geting this done, and you're willing to take the risks, then get going and show us something we can buy ASAP. I need the the time I'm spending on this for other things, so if you're at all serious, then show us the goods and I'll go away.


And the profit issue : I could price the items at cost, which does nothing to end the possible licensing issues. I could also put a sliver of profit into the pricing and donate the profits to the site, which has some serious merit to it. I could also keep the profits as compensation for the ridiculous amount of time I'm spending on developing these designs and attempting to provide these items to our forum users.

THe bottom line : we've got folks here that think they can do this better and cheaper, no matter how much I'm trying to make this easier for all of us. So be it. I"m going to stop everything and see how fast these good people can get us high-quality, embroidered shirts at a super-discount price, without us having to pre-order and pre-pay, without the requirement to have dozens or hundreds of units manufactured and possibly unsold. Multiple shirt sizes, all available for purchase on the internet with a credit card, with profits going wherever you want them to go.

Good luck. We'll all be waiting. So ... ready, set ... 3... 2 ... 1 ... GO. :rolleyes:

[Youpidou1]

THe bottom line : we've got folks here that think they can do this better and cheaper, no matter how much I'm trying to make this easier for all of us. So be it. I"m going to stop everything and see how fast these good people can get us high-quality, embroidered shirts at a super-discount price, without us having to pre-order and pre-pay, without the requirement to have dozens or hundreds of units manufactured and possibly unsold. Multiple shirt sizes, all available for purchase on the internet with a credit card, with profits going wherever you want them to go.

Good luck. We'll all be waiting. So ... ready, set ... 3... 2 ... 1 ... GO. :rolleyes:

Bummer, you had some pretty good ideas and I hate to see them goto waste.

[Sir Wood]

I've been getting PMs and public postings insisting that others in the forum can get this whole AA promotional thing done better, higher quality, cheaper, what have you. I'm trying to get this done and "out there" with as little trouble as ossible, but others insist they can do it better. There are also continued worries about licensing issues. Take, for example, this from an associated thread :



You make good points, and I do not disagree. Even with our own design for a site name logo, we're still at some small risk for violation of licensing rights, just by using the name "Alizée".

As to your shirt source ... I'm putting in a ton of time doing all this stuff (did you see the AA promo items concept thread yet?). Yet there are people who believe they've found a better source, higher quality, cheaper pricing, whatever. So, I'm going to lay it out in plain text - if you've got a better idea for geting this done, and you're willing to take the risks, then get going and show us something we can buy ASAP. I need the the time I'm spending on this for other things, so if you're at all serious, then show us the goods and I'll go away.


And the profit issue : I could price the items at cost, which does nothing to end the possible licensing issues. I could also put a sliver of profit into the pricing and donate the profits to the site, which has some serious merit to it. I could also keep the profits as compensation for the ridiculous amount of time I'm spending on developing these designs and attempting to provide these items to our forum users.

THe bottom line : we've got folks here that think they can do this better and cheaper, no matter how much I'm trying to make this easier for all of us. So be it. I"m going to stop everything and see how fast these good people can get us high-quality, embroidered shirts at a super-discount price, without us having to pre-order and pre-pay, without the requirement to have dozens or hundreds of units manufactured and possibly unsold. Multiple shirt sizes, all available for purchase on the internet with a credit card, with profits going wherever you want them to go.

Good luck. We'll all be waiting. So ... ready, set ... 3... 2 ... 1 ... GO. :rolleyes:
If you're passionate about this, and invested so much of your time, then you should proceed on your own acccord as it looks like you've several folks already interested. Besides, the more the merrier... It would appear to be a win-win situation for everyone. ;)

[OGRE]

Good luck. We'll all be waiting. So ... ready, set ... 3... 2 ... 1 ... GO. :rolleyes:

Have Brad post the final approved logo in jpg, bmp, or gif format, with approved on-shirt dimensions (or leave it to me, if desired) and I'll contact my vendor and get some quotes and timeframes. I'll make the initial minimum volume order on my own nickel and see where it goes from there.

Also, keep in mind everyone is trying to HELP, not criticize. Take the help (or criticism, if that's how it's interpreted) and use it or ignore as you see fit, and just press on with your venture. I would prefer this be a collaborative effort amongst members not some kind of competition to see who can DO IT ALL by themselves.

This process is going to need artists (you've done a great job), contracts (with vendors and possibly with Brad and others as needed), distribution node and warehousing, virtual store fronts (handle purchases), customer service, and bookkeeping (very important if licensing becomes an issue), incorporation (and associated vendor and tax fees), secretarial support, and the possibility of needing to enlist legal counsel. And what about capital, perhaps the most important part of a business...where's the money?

Do you need to do all of the above? No. But it sure helps if you want to make this an ongoing endeavor, and it helps protect you, and depending on involvement, Brad and this website, from any legal entanglements that might across the pond. For example, if you incorporate the corporation is the first entity at risk; this shields YOU (and YOUR personal assets) and Brad (even more so if he is not tied to the corporation) from any legal entanglements. IANAL.

As for capital, wouldn't you feel better if you had other members (like me) willing to pump in some initial funds to make this work? I'm not a money machine, but I'm will to make a $1000.00 up front investment to get the engine built and running. I'm also willing to contract with vendors and warehouse stuff, and assist in distribution and customer service.

A process like this is sooooo much easier if you have helpers along the way. In fact, if you do it right, a venture such as this should survive the drop out of a participant (due to illness, death, family issues, etc.).

And, by the way, "at cost" can include employee compensation (that includes the "sole" in sole proprietor), presuming you are treating this as a business. If you are expending time and energy and are acting like business, I would recommend you keep good bookkeeping records to cover "at cost" compensation. Non-profit does not mean pro bono. It just means you don't make pure profit on top of handling payroll, and that payroll includes YOU. IANAL.

But that aside. I'm willing to take my $1K and move forward. I would prefer to do it in collaboration not competition. But it does sound like fun to me, and perhaps I learn something new along the way that will benefit me in the future. Good relations with a vendor pays off well for all sorts of future work (school, church, job, sports, events, etc.).

Take a step back. Take a breather. We are trying to HELP (make your job easier), not become sideline critics. Well, some folks are sideline critics. But my feedback wasn't intended as such. Regardless, whenever you stick your neck out in a venture like this, you're going to catch a lot of crap. Use the good stuff. Ignore the bad stuff. And just produce. Press on.

Cheers.

[Zack -Alizee Lover-]

NICE!!! I'll take 4 Ringer shirts, a Mug, and a couple of Mousepads. Do you take Dollars or Francs?

Lets all buy some stuff so when we all go2 Mexico, we will be VERY WELL represented!

Should i buy this forum t-shirts or Alizée Mexico t-shirts... :blink:

[Sir Wood]

Should i buy this forum t-shirts or Alizée Mexico t-shirts... :blink:
I don't see how this would be a problem, just get both (unless you're low on money). :p

[espire]

Alright, I think that I can see what's going on between The Cap and OGRE; a misunderstanding.

I have an inkling of what process The Cap plans to use, and it does not require any sort of investment, rather a "print on order" method, where every order is made by the final buyer in quantities as low as 1. This has many obvious advantages over the traditional, but slightly cheaper in the end, upfront investment model.

The only real question is... who's going to get all the profits? ;)

[The Cap]

Alright, I think that I can see what's going on between The Cap and OGRE; a misunderstanding.

I have an inkling of what process The Cap plans to use, and it does not require any sort of investment, rather a "print on order" method, where every order is made by the final buyer in quantities as low as 1. This has many obvious advantages over the traditional, but slightly cheaper in the end, upfront investment model.

The only real question is... who's going to get all the profits? ;)

Exactly right about the process - on-demand ordering of items by the end-user directly from the supplier. No inventory, no advance orders, no exorbitant set-up fees for digital pre-press, no worries about sizes. Customers worder directly from the maker at any quantity they choose, and a storefront is easy and fast to set up. Credit cards would also be welcome as well.

As to the "upfront investment model" being cheaper ... not really, and not always. Costs have a way of hiding in odd places. Unsold pre-ordered stock costs money as long as it goes unsold. Pre-press and digital prep costs can be anywhere from just under $100 to a few hundred dollars, depending on the vendor and their manufacturing processes. Pricing is also high in the traditional model when higher-quality or name-brand raw materials are used in manufacturing. Lastly, the more traditional model isn't likely to come with an on-line storefront, where customers can use credit cards to make purchases.

The costs in the upfront investment model are high, typically - so high that in order to produce, for example, a high-quality embroidered product, the final cost to the customer could easily exceed the on-demand printed-design model after recovery of expenses.

As to profits ... a touchy subject. As OGRE stated in one of his posts, "Non-profit does not mean pro bono". Whatever profit margin could be created would likely be small, but it would be some minimal compensation for the responsibility of creating the graphics, selecting and designing the product designs, "managing" the on-line store, etc.

On the other hand, the idea of donating profits to the site is also a very attractive idea ... however, the "store" and it's products are effectively free advertising for the site (remember, these items are promoting THE SITE, not Alizée ... the SITE promotes Alizée, to split hairs). If the products draw more users to the site, the "profit" the site realizes is manifested in increased traffic and more registered users.

There would also be the possibility of selling the items at no mark-up whatsoever. The items would get to the end-users at "cost" - the base price established by the manufacturer for an item without any profit added at all. It may not be fair to me to put in all the time and trouble for zero compensation, but it does avoid the issue of who gets to keep any profits, since there essentially are no profits to be had by anyone except the manufacturer.

[espire]

I think that you've probably chosen the generally best way to do this, Cap, but that leaves just one thing to be said: Alizée America is not a corporation, nor is it an organization. It is not even a trademark, simply an online club. Because of this, you really don't need the authorization of anybody, even Brad, to go ahead with this. I say that if you want to go ahead with this, go ahead, and you can always make changes that we suggest down the road.

As for profits, decide how much you think your time was worth, and charge a low overhead until you have been compensated. After that, since it was your time and your effort, not ours, you can charge whatever you feel is right, or give whatever you feel is right to Brad, though I'm against the latter. To be honest, I feel that whatever sum is made from the ads and the Amazon link is sufficient, provided that it pays any amount more than the cost of hosting, and Brad hosts multiple sites anyway.

The truth of the matter is that if we really have any sort of problem with what you're doing, we can create other logos without too much trouble and open up our own competing store ;)

I wouldn't expect to have any trouble, though, so you have Espire's official green light. You can see it in my sig :rolleyes:

[OGRE]

As for profits, decide how much you think your time was worth, and charge a low overhead until you have been compensated. After that, since it was your time and your effort, not ours, you can charge whatever you feel is right,

And remember, don't call the compensation profit. Profit doesn't occur until after all expenses have been accounted for. That include payroll (yes, you get to pay yourself) and other overhead. Given industry standard compensation for graphic artists, and the volume we're talking about, I don't think the tax gods would have any problem reconciling a non-profit balance at the prices you've specified.

For everyone else, the retail/wholesale margin in the garment industry is often over 100%. That is, something that retails for $10, will often be wholesale at less than $5. The difference between wholesale and retail is where the retailer has to make payroll, overhead, and profit. As for those who know of cheaper ways, keep in mind you are dealing with a wholesale acquisition....you gotta wrap the entire package together to determine a final price. And even then, it's better to err on the side of caution lest you be left losing money.

[espire]

Aren't you the corrective one today, OGRE ;)

In both this post and the one in the similar thread, you've fixed my errors of ignorance.