Random Questions About the French Language

[Toc De Mac]

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Just thought this subforum could use a place to ask particular questions about any ol' subject.

So, I'll start us off:
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Par exemple, si on dit en français, "I don't know who you picked," faudrait-il utiliser le subjonctif à cause de l'incertitude? Donc, est-ce qu'on dirait, "Je ne sais pas qui vous ayez choisi" / "Je ne sais pas qui tu aies choisi"?

Aussi, si on dit, "I don't know if they are with us," dirait-on, "Je ne sais pas s'ils/elles sont avec nous" ou "Je ne sais pas s'ils/elles soient avec nous"? Je sais que le subjonctif exige le "que" et dans ce cas il n'y en a pas, donc aurais-je raison de ne pas utiliser le subjonctif?

[MesGourmandises]

----
Just thought this subforum could use a place to ask particular questions about any ol' subject.

So, I'll start us off:
----

Par exemple, si on dit en français, "I don't know who you picked," faudrait-il utiliser le subjonctif à cause de l'incertitude? Donc, est-ce qu'on dirait, "Je ne sais pas qui vous ayez choisi" / "Je ne sais pas qui tu aies choisi"?

Aussi, si on dit, "I don't know if they are with us," dirait-on, "Je ne sais pas s'ils/elles sont avec nous" ou "Je ne sais pas s'ils/elles soient avec nous"? Je sais que le subjonctif exige le "que" et dans ce cas il n'y en a pas, donc aurais-je raison de ne pas utiliser le subjonctif?

About the subjunctive, it's a very hard descision. It's used in cases of doubt, which is portrayed here, but in italian, where the subjuncitve is heavily used, it's even optional in that sentence, and in french, where I don't think it's used very much, it might be okay to exclude using it here.

[Cooney]

When dealing in noun clauses, such as your first example, it is when the verb itself is doubtful (préférer que, regretter que) that subjunctive comes in to play. It can also go with the negative forms of croire and penser, but not the affirmatives. Savior, to know, is a definite verb, so I don't believe subjunctive would be used here.

In adjective clauses, such as the second example, one uses the subjunctive if the whole of the antecedant phrase is negative or indefinite. As "I don't know if they..." is a negative phrase, I believe you would use the subjuctive in the second case. Were it changed to "I know they are not with us" then it would be back to the indicative, as "I know they..." is an affirmative statement, even if it becomes negative later on.

[Renegade]

yea thts a good tip bc im goin to france in lk 2 weeks
hope i see Alizee there

[Toc De Mac]

When dealing in noun clauses, such as your first example, it is when the verb itself is doubtful (préférer que, regretter que) that subjunctive comes in to play. It can also go with the negative forms of croire and penser, but not the affirmatives. Savior, to know, is a definite verb, so I don't believe subjunctive would be used here.

In adjective clauses, such as the second example, one uses the subjunctive if the whole of the antecedant phrase is negative or indefinite. As "I don't know if they..." is a negative phrase, I believe you would use the subjuctive in the second case. Were it changed to "I know they are not with us" then it would be back to the indicative, as "I know they..." is an affirmative statement, even if it becomes negative later on.

Hmm... this whole business is rather tricky. I'll have to do a little more research in addition to all the help you guys have provided.

Merci! :)

[ajaccio corsica]

hi
you're right
you only use subjonctif when you express an opinion:
je ne sais pas si elles sont avec nous it's just a constatation
je ne pense pas qu'elles soient avec nous you include an opinion with the verb "penser", same with "croire"
same as italian actually: penso che, mi pare che, mi sembra che etc...
you can use impersonal too: il ne me semble pas qu'elles soient avec nous
you can torture ppl by using l'imparfait du subjonctif too: il ne me semblait pas qu'elles fûtent avec nous
I don't know if I'm true though, my french is very bad
cheers

[forgot_86]

I just got a small little question here, what's the difference between "voudrais" and "veux"? Like how do I know if I should use " Je voudrais, or Je veux"? Or are they just the same

[garçoncanadien]

Je voudrais = I would like
Je veux = I want.

1st one is more polite.

[forgot_86]

Sounds pretty much the same to me, but yeah its different. Thanx a lot Garcon

[Alex]

One question: :D,
whats the difference when pronouncing Mademoiselle
I've heard it: Mad-moiselle
and: Madumoiselle (like heard in Alizee's MJ)
Hope someone may help, merci!

[Chuck]

Hey Alex! Uh, the "uh" part in the middle is sort of a vestigial syllable. Occasionally, people pronounce it slightly, but usually not at all. Alizée's exaggerating - stretching it out to 4 beats - just to fit the rhythm of the song. Normally it's spoken as just three syllables ("ma-dmwa-zell"), on the streets you'd likely only hear two ("mom-zell"). Any help?

[user472884]

One question: :D,
whats the difference when pronouncing Mademoiselle
I've heard it: Mad-moiselle
and: Madumoiselle (like heard in Alizee's MJ)
Hope someone may help, merci!

I don't think they're intentionally pronouncing it "mad-moiselle"... I think they are just barely pronouncing the "e". I think it's just cutting corners in the language, everybody knows what's being said so it's not a big deal. I do this a lot, for example I cannot properly say "picture (pick-shure)", I say it "pitcher"

also, anything that ends with "sks" or "sts"... just can't do it... instead of saying "masks" or "masts", I say "mass" for both cases.

[Toc De Mac]

It's the same thing with a lot of other examples where you have an "e" in the middle of a multiple-syllable-word. :)

For example, "je mangerai" becomes "zhe maw[n]zhray" instead of deliberately pronouncing the middle "e" as "zhe maw[n]-zhe-ray."



*Note: My pronunciation guides are terrible, I know. :p

[woohoo]

Well I can't speak French so I'll let alizees music do the talking.

[Alex]

Just wanted to say Thank You to Chuck, Jalen and Toc de Mac for your help in answering my question, Thanx you guys:)

[Ronald]

I've had French lessons back in the old days at school and now I'm re-learning it, cause I forgot most of it, which is a shame:rolleyes:

When you want to deny something you use: ne.....pas

So I'm a little confused with lilly's song: J'ai pas vingt ans which should be something like Je n'ai pas vingt ans. I notice people writing more sentences without using "ne". I can't find any explanation on the net, so hopefully someone can explain, thanks

[Maquis]

I've had French lessons back in the old days at school and now I'm re-learning it, cause I forgot most of it, which is a shame:rolleyes:

When you want to deny something you use: ne.....pas

So I'm a little confused with lilly's song: J'ai pas vingt ans which should be something like Je n'ai pas vingt ans. I notice people writing more sentences without using "ne". I can't find any explanation on the net, so hopefully someone can explain, thanks

It's a common contraction, most people use "J'ai pas" instead of "Je n'ai pas" which is mostly used for writing.

Basically "Je n'ai pas", the "e" and the "n" vanish.
Like English uses contractions like "I don't" for "I do not", "I can't" for "I cannot" etc...

[Ronald]

Thanks Maquis for the fast reply

[Maquis]

Thanks Maquis for the fast reply

No problem. ;)
If I can be useful sometimes... :D

[Merci Alizée]

How can I type accented e in my laptop? I know how to with keyboard having numeric keys,but i don't know for my laptop. I use Dell Studio 14.

[Alex]

How can I type accented e in my laptop? I know how to with keyboard having numeric keys,but i don't know for my laptop. I use Dell Studio 14.

One way to do it is by activating the number lock by pressing the (FN)key and the number lock button. After this, the number lock should be activated and then you may hold down the ALT key and type the numbers 0233(lower case é) and 0201 (upper case É).

http://tlt.its.psu.edu/suggestions/international/accents/codealt.html#accent

Another way is to add an additional keyboard language to your computer. You may do this in the COntrol Pannel under Calendar, Clock, and Lanuage.

Hope it helps!

[Plaz]

i've never tried the number pad trick, but for the past 5 years i've always used the United States-International keyboard instead...

Step 1
Open up Control Panel

(Click Start, Control Panel)

Step 2
Double click to open the Clock, Language, Region icon.

Step 3
In the new window that appears click the Change Keyboards button.

Step 4
Another new window will appear. Click the Add button.

Step 5
Click United States-International keyboard option.

Step 6
Click Ok

Step 7
Click the drop down Default Input Language menu and select United States International.

Step 8
You are now ready to type using an International Keyboard!

[Merci Alizée]

i've never tried the number pad trick, but for the past 5 years i've always used the United States-International keyboard instead...

Step 1
Open up Control Panel

(Click Start, Control Panel)

Step 2
Double click to open the Clock, Language, Region icon.

Step 3
In the new window that appears click the Change Keyboards button.

Step 4
Another new window will appear. Click the Add button.

Step 5
Click United States-International keyboard option.

Step 6
Click Ok

Step 7
Click the drop down Default Input Language menu and select United States International.

Step 8
You are now ready to type using an International Keyboard!


Its easier than alt key codes. You have to press lesser no of keys and of course its more natural. For ex - to type the letter é - type the apostrophe key ('), then e.

The link posted by Alex contains link to see more about this
http://tlt.its.psu.edu/suggestions/international/accents/codealt.html#accent

[Plaz]

heh heh oh i know all about the number pad trick i just never used it... i was actually posting in reply to your situation which is why i posted how to use the international keyboard...

[user472884]

àñöthér rêásòn I lóvë mäcíñtôsh...

a very simple "apple + `, u, e, i, n"

[SDB]

àñöthér rêásòn I lóvë mäcíñtôsh...

a very simple "apple + `, u, e, i, n"

1. get azerty keyboard
2. win

:D

[Toc De Mac]

I have a little question for any native speakers out there. :) Recently I read on a website that it is "forbidden" to do liaison when there is inversion. Ex.: Etes-vous allé en ville?

Thus, according to those who claim this, you shouldn't link "vous" and "allé." I seem to have frequently heard this kind of liaison, however, and a native French speaker confirmed that she does pronounce it as a liaison. What gives? :D

[Piblokto]

Definitely : êtes vous-z-'allé.
Tout est là : http://monsu.desiderio.free.fr/curiosites/liaison.html
(liaisons obligatoires-après les prénoms)
et ici : http://www.lepointdufle.net/ressources_fle/liaisons_obligatoires_liaisons_interdites.htm
Mais surtout pas là :

<object width="480" height="360"><param name="movie" value="http://www.dailymotion.com/swf/video/xtplh"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"></param><embed type="application/x-shockwave-flash" src="http://www.dailymotion.com/swf/video/xtplh" width="480" height="360" allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always"></embed></object>

[VVVACCPLPNLY]

Here is one: when is it appropriate to leave the 'ne' in 'ne... pas...' out?

[Toc De Mac]

Definitely : êtes vous-z-'allé.
Tout est là : http://monsu.desiderio.free.fr/curiosites/liaison.html
(liaisons obligatoires-après les prénoms)
et ici : http://www.lepointdufle.net/ressources_fle/liaisons_obligatoires_liaisons_interdites.htm

MDR ! Je te remercie, surtout pour la vidéo ! :D Enfin je n'ai pas tout saisi de ce qu'ils ont dit... il faudra que je réécoute encore plusieurs fois. :p Quant aux deux liens, peut-être que je me trompe, mais il ne me semble pas qu'on y donne des exemples avec l'inversion. En tout cas le fait que toi tu prononces ainsi, ça suffit pour moi et me rassure que je ne fasse pas une faute à chaque fois que je formule une telle question. :)

Here is one: when is it appropriate to leave the 'ne' in 'ne... pas...' out?

Mainly in informal speech.
Ex.: Je ne comprends pas. => Je comprends pas. Or, as Alizée says :o, T'as pas deux cents francs? <= Tu n'as pas deux cents francs?

[VVVACCPLPNLY]

That is what I had figured. But iwasn't sure íf maybe there were some times where it should be left out in formal French, too. Merci, toc de mac !

[wasabi622]

Could anyone fluent in French please explain the top rated comments for these videos? I used google translate, but I don't get if they're saying "it's shitty" or "it's the shit" and why they think there's something wrong with her. Of course, they may not even be saying anything like that to begin with..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zwb8hXlUE1E&ob=av2e

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woaH157hvPs&feature=relmfu

s'il vous plait et merci! :)

[user472884]

They're saying it sucks.

First one says "thumbs down" (I dunno bout that "arrogance" business)

The second says it doesn't even matter of it's Melanie or not, it sucks.

[Bigdan]

Nothing special, really.
Just the usual verbal agression between people who love it and people who don't.

[wasabi622]

What exactly are they saying though? According to google translate:

"I do not know why but I feel something is wrong with her ...

It seems that all she undertakes is calculated ...

Oh yes, and then seriously do not say it is natural, because otherwise it would be lying to yourself.?

Why so much hate? I've yet to read a poorly translated positive comment.

[Chuck]

Wow, Wasabi, she's highly attractive! And talented. I'm actually glad you pointed her out. =) And actually, no, I wouldn't say the comments are as bad as you think. For "Kiss", all comments within the last two weeks are highly favorable. For "En t'attendant", well, it's a little more even, but 5-1/2 out of the last seven were all favorable, if sheepishly so. The worst recent one was the guy saying "Dommage... Faut rester au cinéma ma petite..." ('Shame...stay in the movies, little girl') which really isn't too harsh. And leads me to think she must already be a known starlet or something now "crossing over" to do a record or two.

Other, earlier criticisms (again, not necessarily the predominant trend) are saying it's boring music, or the lyrics are too bland, or blah blah blah. I'd misquote Bigdan and say it's a lot of typical youtube haterism popping up. Perhaps more than for most young singers, but you know how that is - the more attractive the star is, the more scrutiny they draw. Do people follow Tim Blake-Nelson around, or George Clooney?

You should check imdb to see see if she has been in movies. Or a google search for whatever else she's already known for.

Or at least, recheck your Google Translator settings and try again. ;)

[DrSmith]

Wow, Wasabi, she's highly attractive! And talented. I'm actually glad you pointed her out. =) And actually, no, I wouldn't say the comments are as bad as you think. For "Kiss", all comments within the last two weeks are highly favorable. For "En t'attendant", well, it's a little more even, but 5-1/2 out of the last seven were all favorable, if sheepishly so. The worst recent one was the guy saying "Dommage... Faut rester au cinéma ma petite..." ('Shame...stay in the movies, little girl') which really isn't too harsh. And leads me to think she must already be a known starlet or something now "crossing over" to do a record or two.

You don't know Mélanie Laurent? You're supposed to be the movie guy.

http://cdn.screenrant.com/wp-content/uploads/final-melanie-basterd.jpg

[wasabi622]

Oh trust me, I know what she's in.

I've seen quite a few of her movies, at least, what I can find here in the US. The first one I saw was Inglorious Basterds(sexy vengeful Jewish starlet), followed by The Room of Death(beautiful detective with a tortured past), then by Don't Worry I'm Fine(Young student aching over the disappearance of her brother), then Beginners(An outgoing woman who entices Obi wan kenobi). I'm currently looking for The Beat My Heart Skipped and The Concert(I'm a violinist too! :cool::p)

I guess most people are criticizing her because she's an actress first. Kind of how I feel about singers acting in movies.

She's made me feel something that I'm too scared to admit. I don't plan on openly admitting it until she releases another album or so. I'd hate to come out and it turns out she ends up being a one-album artist.

Look! Dr. House himself is amazed at her beauty and talent!

http://i39.tinypic.com/2wgunoz.jpg

[Chuck]

DrSmith, I was just saying the other night (in a way-too-long-post on the movies thread, since abridged) that no, I am not a movies guy anymore. Long story short, we sold it all months ago. And now I whittle things.

Wasabi, SHE doesn't really care if she's a one-album artist or not, she's already been in 31 movies (yeah, i checked now, too) AND written AND directed. QUADRUPLE threat. And she's 28 years old, and all of 5'2". Solid nitroglycerin, if there was such a thing. She doesn't NEED a @#$%$ contract with some record company. She'll be fine!

[DrSmith]

DrSmith, I was just saying the other night (in a way-too-long-post on the movies thread, since abridged) that no, I am not a movies guy anymore. Long story short, we sold it all months ago. And now I whittle things.

Sorry to hear that… but you were the movies guy. Didn't you see Inglourious Basterds?

[wasabi622]

DrSmith, I was just saying the other night (in a way-too-long-post on the movies thread, since abridged) that no, I am not a movies guy anymore. Long story short, we sold it all months ago. And now I whittle things.

Wasabi, SHE doesn't really care if she's a one-album artist or not, she's already been in 31 movies (yeah, i checked now, too) AND written AND directed. QUADRUPLE threat. And she's 28 years old, and all of 5'2". Solid nitroglycerin, if there was such a thing. She doesn't NEED a @#$%$ contract with some record company. She'll be fine!

She's amazing right? An amazing concoction of stunning beauty and talent squashed into that tiny frame. (Like with Alizée, her nose is too cute! It sounds weird even to me.. "nose is too cute".. *shrug*)

"What? Little ol' me?"
http://i43.tinypic.com/rhucgn.jpg

Still though, before I declare myself, I'd like to know that in the future, more music will come from her. I know she'll be in plenty of movies, but seeing all those negative comments casts doubts about future albums.

[Chuck]

Will she do more albums? My magic eight ball says "most assuredly". At least one more, the "sophomore" album - it's so customary, it's the law.

On the other hand, I could be wrong, but I wouldn't expect she'll do a lot more American movies in the future. There's another good reason to learn French !

[Quinetiam]

How is Les Enfoires pronounced?

[DrSmith]

How is Les Enfoires pronounced?

You can hear it in this song :

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/g_sM2wvt9_0?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
http://youtu.be/g_sM2wvt9_0 (http://youtu.be/g_sM2wvt9_0)

[Jake04]

I've been pronouncing it wrong for years. I really need to install my Rosetta stone! :p Thanks, DrSmith!

[Quinetiam]

Aye, I think I've got it from my favorite tunes of late.

Nicolas Canteloup in La Jument da Michao

"en----fwaw-ay"

or for us Canadians

'on-fwah-eh'

[Bigdan]

Do you need some help?

http://danbousq.perso.sfr.fr/espacelibre/LesEnfoires.mp3


;)

[Jake04]

I always thought it was "Leh en-fwa" :p