Alizee's Stalingrad!..Has the clock stopped ticking?

[Scruffydog777]

I wrote this thread a few days ago, but I've been holding off posting it, hoping to hear something more concrete from the Alizée camp, because it is based on the assumption that I think a lot of us have made, that the concert was canceled "mainly" due to low ticket sales.
So here's my thread and I'm sticking to it.

Back in May of this year, I started a thread I titled Alizée's Stalingrad. I'm posting a copy of it below for those who didn't see it. Below it, I'm posting one of the responses to it.

For those of you not familiar with the battle of Stalingrad, during WW2, the Russian army surrounded a large German army (about 250,000 men if my memory is correct) that had been laying siege to Stalingrad. Hitler refused to let them try to retreat back to Germany and relief troops could not break through to them. The Germans surrendered after losing many men to the the vast Russian army not to mention the harsh Russian winter. When the Russians had the Germans surrounded, they would play the sound of a ticking clock over the radio for psychological warfare purposes. Every few ticks of the clock, marking the death of another German soldier. So the ticks meant time was running out for the German army and in my thread too, I thought time was running out for Alizée. Stalingrad was probably the turning point in the war, and so too, I thought the Moscow concert would mark a turning point in her career.
OLD THREAD

Alizee's Stalingrad!

So Alizee has started her world tour. She looks like a house wife now. She sounds like a house wife now. It's just a question if she'll be able to sell off a bunch of her origionnal fans on her new "re-orchestrated music". You'd have better odds betting on the U.S. economy. Enjoy her while you can. I wish her the best, but I fear the worst. Tick, tick, tick.....

RESPONSE

"Why are you even here scruffy? All you do is create negative threads or hijack other ones so you can bash on Alizée. It would be one thing if she had already done her tour, but you keep saying the same things over and over as if you are hoping she has no success just because you don't like her style.

Not only have you repeated the same point you flamed other threads with, but you once again put in the extra effort to be as rude as you can with a point you could have made in one short sentence."

Why was I here? Because I desperately wanted her comeback to be a success. I heard her new album and watched her Moscow concert and was deeply disappointed. Not only wasn't her new material very good but she made the huge mistake of re-orchestrating all the tremendously beautiful music of her first two albums. I tried to look at her performances not from the perspective that so many of her fans have, that would wildly applaud her no matter how her songs sounded or how she looked, but from the perspective of someone who thought she needed to do something to bring in new fans and also bring back many of her former fans.

After the Moscow concert, I thought there was still time for her to make changes so I kept hammering away at her in these forums. I know my methods sucked, but I had to somehow try and get my message across. Anyone who in any way agreed with me was quickly attacked.

After the Mexico concert, I stopped criticizing her, mainly because at this point, I thought it was too late.. Several members in the Alizée-forum who also thought that changes should be made after Moscow, were told that their messages had been heard and the Mexico concerts would be different. If there were changes, they were few and hard to notice.I thought some of her songs were down right painful to listen to.I heard the excuses being made where people said the acoustics were terrible and they were recorded on amateurish equipment. I'm sure there's a lot of truth in that, but It was so obvious that it just wasn't that good. One of the reasons I was looking forward to attending this concert in Paris was I wanted to hear it for myself. No more trusting other people's opinions. I'd be finally able to judge it on my own.

But now the concert's been canceled and we are left to guess why as to the real reason. I am guessing, that it's due to poor ticket sales. I think a record company would rather cancel a concert than take the chance of looking bad by sponsoring one where half the seats are empty.They don't care about how much her fans have spent on airplane tickets or hotel reservations. Alizée, I'm sure cares but I don't think it was her decision to make.Two weeks ago, I was wondering how the sales were doing so I went on line to see if I could order more and it did show that they were still available which had me kind of worried.How could she not sell out a concert in a major city like Paris. A place she now calls home. It's only a mile away from the Olympia where she sold out 6 concerts in one week back in 2003. The tickets cost less than 40 euros, not expensive at all by todays standards. Why were her own countrymen so alienated against her? That's something I still don't understand.

Now she's supposedly negotiating a contract with another record company. Is there hope here?
I don't think so. I'm sure it's because her current company doesn't see much hope in her and some other company will give her a contract that's probably no where's near as good as her current one (and I'm sure not very costly) ,just for the sake if she hits it big again, they have a lot to gain.

Is there hope for Alizée? I don't think so. If she sang more of her songs from her first two albums in the way they were origionally orchestrated and presented her self in a way that would accentuate her beauty, not hide it,she could still fill up a lot of concert halls in a lot of countries, but unfortunately, I don't think this would be the case in France. France is where she has to do well.

What does she have to do to succeed in France. She needs some new music; very good music! Not songs like Lilly town, or Fifty/Sixty, which are good songs, but song like Moi Lolita, L'Alize,J'en ai marre. These are the type of songs that when you first hear them, they immediately grab your attention. The type of song that if you first heard it on the radio, you'd be calling that station asking "What"s the name of that song and who sang it and please play it again!" The type of songs you want to play over and over. It wont matter how she packages herself. She could look like the south end of a north bound hippopotamus, she could wear a burlap dress, flip flops, shower cap, cold cream on her face and curlers in her hair,but if the music is good, very good that is,the people will come. New fans, old fans, pissed off fans, alienated fans, French fans and foreign fans will all be storming the gates.

How can she get good music? That's the big question. Mylene Farmer and Laurent Bouranat I feel may have used Alizée, but they also made her famous and if not rich, at least well off ( is she?). They produced some incredibly beautiful music and performances. The likes of which I doubt I will ever see again. They're gone. What's left. A still incredibly beautiful woman with a beautiful voice. But there's been a lot of beautiful woman come along who've had one hit and then just faded into oblivion. Without good music they were doomed and so to is Alizée's career.

I pray that she keeps trying but what I want most for her is for her to be happy whether she keeps singing or decides to retire. I'm just thankful for all the joy she has brought into my life.

To quote a line from Youpidoo
J'ai le moral au grand zéro.

[Tiwaz]

c'mon i can't stand all this negative crap. This was her first attempt to stand on her own feet and it havent really worked out. Why? I dont know really. The music isnt that bad, it's just to many different styles on the album like hiphop, jazz, electro pop, pop rock etc. if you want to succeed you have to go one way, not ten. Alizee is not hiphop = doing a rap song is obviously going to fail. She needs to find her own style and get back some of that magic from the old days.
Even if she doesn’t hit it big like before, i hope she keeps on doing music the way she wants to.

[MonteCristo]

A doomsday speech. the world should elect you to write one, your really good at it. very well spoken scruffy (or rather, written). Alizée would either have to adapt to survive, meaning she has to compete against the songs that made her famous, and not only that, she'll have to win. Or, she can retire. I dont like her retiring anymore than anyone of her fans. Its such a waste to have her influence not recognized, after all the way shes came from age 14 to now.

[YesterdaysAirRace]

Not only wasn't her new material very good but she made the huge mistake of re-orchestrating all the tremendously beautiful music of her first two albums.

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong...or scold me for having just lifted this from another thread here, for all I remember...but I thought the original arrangements and choreography were owned by her previous handlers. Thus she'd either have to license them (assuming she could) or "cover" them (which she did).

[Future Raptor Ace]

About Stalingrad, it was the single most bloodiest battle in human history
Hey guys just to let you know the economy seems to be bouncing back. The other day the DJI rose 900 something points. Biggest ever in 1 secession. Its bouncing up and down now but it seems to be slowly going up. As of now its at -492.70, we shall see how it closes out for the day.
Back to Alizee, I think and hope she will pull through. I still think she shouldn't have left Farmer though

[woohoo]

Psychédélices was a test album to see if she was still liked and what kind music her fans liked the most. Thats why there is such a diverse arrange of genres. People responded avidly to 50-60 and Lilly town so Alizee took this and I believe that she is working on a new album that people will really like and she will come roaring back on the wings of angels.

[pepelepew]

I agree scruffy that the new versions of her old music is not even close to the originals, that what I have seen of her Psychedelics tour isn't up to par. Because of the video and acoustic quality I can't make a definitive decision about the over all quality of her concerts. I wasn't even impressed with Psychelelics at first, but it has grown on me and I like it very much today.

With all of that said, this is the first attempt for Alizee to make a comback after 4 yrs. out of the limelite. A tough hill to climb for any music artist especially someone famous In France, parts of Europe and Asia. The numbers just aren't there. Mexico is still her best hope.
A true artist as I think Alizee is and part of her character that I love she took a chance to leave a safe and successful music career that didn't obviously fit Alizee to pursue what is truly Alizee come what may.

A true artist is motivated by that fire in the belly to produce what moves their spirit and not necessarily will be popular to anyone else. The icing on the cake is to be successful monetarily to be able to continue to practice their art. I think that she made a calculated decision as real artists do to not let fame and success to be the endgame.

Alizee has given much joy to her fans and the fans have given their hard earned money in appreciation. Nobody owes anyone anything. To my knowledge Alizee has never broken promises to anyone or done or said anything that she has not come through on. The concert being cancelled was beyond her control.

I hope selfishly that Alizee continues to make music, but if not I support her on anything she chooses to do. I would much prefer her to do what is in her heart than be miserable as a pop star. Someone with character will not make that choice.

[Vista]

Following is an excerpt of a post I made yesterday on a different forum:

"Alizee, in her time with Mylene Farmer, developed her innate artistic talent. Also during this process, she probably learned a few business skills as well. I view Alizee’s current situation as that of developing her business skills. Given time, I have faith that Alizee will incrementally develop her success, both as an artist and as a business."

[lefty12357]

I like Alizée's current album and music. I agree that the album doesn't have a song on it that has "huge hit" potential, but it's still a fine collection of songs that are well done. She has been very successful in Mexico. I think it's mostly a matter of not being able to reconnect with the French people. She had her moment there in the past and it's hard to recreate those kinds of moments again.

[Tomtentp]

Here we go again...

Nice guesses you got there Scruffy, but guesses they remain. Please, don't waste more time by dwelling in such thoughts. Have it ever occured to you that the reason for the retilation on these thoughts of yours is simply because they are unnecessary and not because they are unlikely?

Sure, Alizées career might end tomorrow, sure her music might never reach
the glory of her previous work and sure, her current management teams lousyness might bring her to a certain doom. But it's still just speculations, you can't know this, so how about just leaving it and do something creative instead?

You might be right thou, im not saying your ideas are stupid or unlogical in any way. But what do you wish to achieve by discussing them over and over again? Being able to say "I told you so" when it happens?

I think we should direct this energy on better things such as supporting Alizée, finding solutions to the problems and most importantly doing something about it to improve the situation (for us and indirectly for Alizée). Cus if we don't do anything to change the situation, all we can do is guess, and that will get us nowhere.

Im not saying your not allowed to discuss what you want, but this subject have been stressed to the limit already and in my eyes only contribute nothing but negative energy towards Alizée. Let's concentrate on the important thing instead, Alizée. Put her management her music aside for a second.

Do you think she would do anything to deliberatly hurt anybody or anything in this world for money or welfare of any kind?

She is one of the most compassionate creatures I know of, she is the female version of Ghandi. She wouldn't hurt a fly damnit! Well, maybe if it were really, really, REALLY small and annoying...

Do you think that if she, while knowing her career were going for a certain doom or while not supporting her music with her full heart, would still go on without caring?

The reason that she jumped off the whole Mf/Lb charade was just because of this...

Im my eyes, she have fully proven these two statements to be false. I have full confidence that she will always do the right thing, and that's all that matters to me.

[Scruffydog777]

Here we go again...

Nice guesses you got there Scruffy, but guesses they remain.

You're right, they are guesses but that's all we can do because we haven't had anyone from her camp give us a believable explanation.


so how about just leaving it and do something creative instead?

But what do you wish to achieve by discussing them over and over again? Being able to say "I told you so" when it happens?

The thing that I hoped to achieve was to have her make changes so she could have a successful comeback. I guess I was a fool for trying hard to save her career.

I think we should direct this energy on better things such as supporting Alizée, finding solutions to the problems

I offered solutions. I said she sing the her earlier song the way they were origionaly orchestrated. If she didn't own the rights to them, she should have bought the rights. I think she should have presented herself better. She has so much natural beauty. Some of the outfits she's been wearing lately look like they came off the rack at wal-mart, they hid her beauty, rather than accent it like they should have and to think she's living in the fashion capitol of the world.

Im not saying your not allowed to discuss what you want, but this subject have been stressed to the limit already and in my eyes only contribute nothing but negative energy towards Alizée.

In other words we should surround her with yes men, who say everything she sings and does is golden. Maybe if she had a few more fans that were more critical, it would never have come to this point where she can't even fill up a theater in Paris.

Do you think she would do anything to deliberatly hurt anybody or anything in this world for money or welfare of any kind?

I don't know where you came up with this idea. I even said in this post when talking about the cancellation "Alizée, I'm sure cares but I don't think it was her decision to make."

I have full confidence that she will always do the right thing, and that's all that matters to me.

This goes back to my previous statement about being surrounded by yes men. She's human. She'll make mistakes. She needs to be told when something isn't working or needs improvement.

[TheBarrett]

Nobody's perfect.
Gourmandises wasn't perfect.
MCE wasn't perfect.
Psychédélices isnt perfect as well.

There is always room to improve, thus is humanity. There is always room to add onto, thus is humanity in a heartbeat.
Nothing must be perfect, it will take eons to become perfection, but what I ask of her is satisfactory. That is quite a push in the direction, more things to add, more ideas to put into play.

Thus said I, she could definitely keep going. If that is her will, or not, then let it be so.

[ALS]

Alizée and Jeremy are 24 years old. The more experience they get the better the music will get. No one is an expert right out of the box as they say.

[espire]

Alas, the point-by-point argument deconstruction has begun. Take cover!

Scruffy, this isn't the end of Alizée, merely a rather large failure for her. The only people being hurt by the recent events are her fans, and although we try to think otherwise, fans are entirely disposable. Alizée will live happily with plenty of cash until she decides to put out another record, which will draw new fans.

[whitey®]

She's only 24 there is still plenty of time for her to improve , give it some time.

[Ruroshen]

Nonono...you have the country right, my friend, but the rest of your analogy is all wrong. This isn't Alizée's Stalingrad...this is her Rocky IV, man! (The one where he fought Ivan Draco.)

Specifically, this is the bit at the end of the second act of every Rocky movie, where all the complications have been revealed, the cards are stacked impossibly high against our hero, a much-beloved secondary character has kicked the bucket (AA! Ohmigod, it all FITS!!), it's all doom and gloom, and it doesn't look like there's any way through to a happy ending.

And you know what that means? That's right...it's time for a TRAINING MONTAGE!! (Preferably set to an inspirational power ballad by an 80's hair metal band.)

Alizée rehearsing with her band...Lili and Jeremy at the piano, deep in concentration, rearranging some music...a close-up of Lili lacing up her Nikes and then running away from the camera on a pre-dawn 5K run on the Corsican coastline...cutaways of the band members working hard in rehearsal, beads of sweat flying from their heads as they practice oh-so-hard...a cute "awwwww!" moment of Annily tangled up in equipment cords in the studio...Jeremy asleep at the piano, as Lili looks over her shoulder at him, smiles fondly, then nudges him to the side and keeps on working with a look of raw determination on her face...a few shots of her loyal team of plucky underdogs (i.e. us) doing their thing, dropping discs, putting up fliers, handing out cards...another shot of Lili and the band, really coming together and rocking out...another shot of Lili running along the beach, obviously pushing herself harder than she's ever pushed herself before, her jaw firecely set as the sun breaks over the waterline on the horizon, glinting off her gold calculator watch as the music swells...

YOU GOT THE TOUCH....YOU GOT THE POWWWWEERRRRR!!
...

...

Sorry, what were we talking about again...?

[mavsluver41]

I said she sing the her earlier song the way they were origionaly orchestrated. If she didn't own the rights to them, she should have bought the rights.

And what if MF/LB wouldn't sell her the rights? Lili was adamant that the parting was on good terms, but I don't recall ever hearing anything conclusive from the other side.

I think she should have presented herself better. She has so much natural beauty. Some of the outfits she's been wearing lately look like they came off the rack at wal-mart, they hid her beauty, rather than accent it like they should have and to think she's living in the fashion capitol of the world.


What if that's her taste? Back with MF, she was forced into a plethora of tight-fitting, stomach-bearing, cause-all-men-to-faint numbers that, although emphasizing her otherworldly beauty, perhaps compromised her dignity. Now that she is free of those particular fetters, she is free to choose her own wardrobe: whether the fans agree with her choices is another matter. And another thing: childbirth is a wonderful and awe-inspiring thing and touches the heart, mind, and soul. The body, however, does not change in such a positive fashion ;). As Ruroshen and others have pointed out, her recent clothing choices are light on stomach and heavy on legs (a fair trade-off :p).

But regardless, you can't "hide" beauty like Alizée's, because beauty comprises so many facets beyond simple attractiveness of the body. It is ineffable but can be found anywhere, sometimes in the most unlikely of places. So even if Alizée traveled the streets of the world's fashion capital in a burka, she would still undoubtedly be the most beautiful girl in the world :wub:.

[YesterdaysAirRace]

Speaking as a newly converted member of the apparent Cult, I can say with some outsider perspective that at this point, I don't care if she never records another note or performs another concert, ever, anywhere, if that's what it takes to be true to herself. I was attracted initially by the quality of the music and production, which I quickly suspected (then confirmed) was not her doing. But I started getting sucked in because I saw her concert dvd, and realized that she couldn't possibly be completely pre-fab, to give that kind of performance--that whatever the coaching she received, she had, uh, just to say it, a je ne sais quoi :) that would probably shine thru even if she was standing in front of the bus station singing "Mary Had a Little Lamb" into a Mr. Microphone accompanied by a cheap Casio keyboard.

Even then, though, I didn't become a full-blown junkie until I started reading more about her, and realized that unlike the endless stream of fungible pop-tarts emanating from Hollyweird, she hasn't been in and out of rehab, jail, or family court. Maybe it's just that the French entertainment industry is more low-key; but I suspect (as I'm sure many here do too) that it's more indicative of a strength of character--and that is probably that spark that shines thru when she's performing.

No, I don't know that if my introduction to Alizee was thru a low-fi concert clip from Moscow of her singing 99 Luftballons, that I'd have paid this much attention--keeping in mind that it was the music that hooked me at first. But I'm happy she's moved on, even if it means that (for now) she's moved down, too. The more I learn about Mylene Farmer, the more I'm glad she's no longer under her care (what should I think about someone whose recent single was some post-feminist rant called "Eff Them All?") Does anyone really think that she would have had Alizee doing the same stuff she did when she was 18? Now that she's not suitable for playing a Lolita anymore, who knows what Farmer's next "image" would have been: an angry, disaffected twenty-nothing, channeling Alanis Morissette (another former teen idol)? Or maybe a buzz-cut francophone version of Wendy O Williams, blowing up cars? Thankfully we'll never have to find out.

So I consider anything Alizee's now doing--or not doing--a bonus, especially since it's from her this time. Maybe she's bitten off more than she can chew. Fine. That's part of growing up, and as others have said, the only hope for her to actually become something great herself is to take these risks and possibly make mistakes.

No, I don't presume to speak for anyone else--many of you, it seems, have been wandering in the desert for a long time, and are understandably upset since you caught sight of the promised land, only to have it disappear again. (I'm sure this is especially true for those of you out hard earned cash.) It's just my perspective as someone who has never experienced this kind of "overnight fascination" with a celebrity before--especially a pop singer--but is somehow very glad he now has :)

In any case, unless I suddenly learn she's a cat-beating heroine-addicted arms-smuggler, I'm probably going to remain an admirer of hers for life, and am thankful for what I do have from her, even if it will always leave me wanting more.

[lefty12357]

I said she sing the her earlier song the way they were origionaly orchestrated. If she didn't own the rights to them, she should have bought the rights.

Buying the rights is not necessary. She can perform any of her old songs in any arrangement she chooses as long as she pays a fee for doing so. That's standard procedure.

[Lerxst]

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong...or scold me for having just lifted this from another thread here, for all I remember...but I thought the original arrangements and choreography were owned by her previous handlers. Thus she'd either have to license them (assuming she could) or "cover" them (which she did).

That's a myth that seems to have taken on a life of it's own on these Alizee forums. That's not how licensing works. You can't copyright arrangements or choreography, you can only copyright music and lyrics. The alternate arrangements she has been using are completely her decision.

The myth that Mylene and Laurent are preventing her from performing the original arrangements is just that...a myth.

[YesterdaysAirRace]

That's a myth that seems to have taken on a life of it's own on these Alizee forums. That's not how licensing works. You can't copyright arrangements or choreography, you can only copyright music and lyrics.

I don't doubt that what I said is a myth; but, I am pretty sure one can copyright choreography. I seem to recall the guy that invented the Electric Slide was busy pulling down Youtube videos of drunken wedding-goers who were "doing it wrong."

Anyway, forget I said anything.

[woohoo]

Has anyone considered that she is haveing problems at home? Maybe she is really upset about something or someone and she is just not focused on her music.:confused::confused:

[Tomtentp]

The thing that I hoped to achieve was to have her make changes so she could have a successful comeback. I guess I was a fool for trying hard to save her career.


This is what im heading at, you are trying to dictate how she is to be. You are trying to shape her into something that you want. You want to make her another puppet in the pop industry faking and bending doing whatever needs to be done in order to score as much $ as possible.

I don't see how this is gonna help at all, an artist is what he/she is. If you like it then enjoy, if you don't like it then walk away. Don't try to change her, don't try to tell her what is the 'right thing to do', atleast not in this way.

Do you think by ignoring her, skipping her concerts, or whatever you had planned to show your dislike, will make her change into anything better?
Again I ask you, what do you wish to accomplish by making "people more critical" towards her. I think you are using the wrong approach.

Again, im not questioning your ideas, im questioning the reason why you present them.

[Scruffydog777]

This is what im heading at, you are trying to dictate how she is to be. You are trying to shape her into something that you want.

I'm not trying to shape her into something I want. First of all, I want her to be happy, if she wants to continue just the way she's been going and perfectly willing to settle for a half empty theater when she gives a concert in Paris, then that's awesome, as long as she's happy. If retiring from singing would please her then I'm all for it.

But I think she misses that popularity of years ago. I think she would love to be able to sell out a concert in Paris and other cities in France. But to do that, she's going to have to make some changes, or at least come up with some much better music.

[Lerxst]

Anyway, forget I said anything.

Sorry, I should clarify. After re-reading my response, I realize it may have appeared that I was aiming my comments directly at you, YAR. Even though I quoted you, my response was directed more towards the forum at large. You just happened to be the one who mentioned it. I apologize if it seemed like I was taking you to task.

No hard feelings, bro. :)

[lefty12357]

Just a small correction, even though it’s not important, but choreography can be copyrighted, at least in the USA, but it must be notated or recorded to do so.

[Rocket]

Just a small correction, even though it’s not important, but choreography can be copyrighted, at least in the USA, but it must be notated or recorded to do so.

You are correct sir. Which is why you see different versions of the same music in ballets or musicals. Take West Side Story. The original stage/movie were choreographed and copyrighted. In order to get around that, high schools, colleges and community theaters give variations of the dance steps. The dance number with the Jets is the toughest one to restage. It was done so perfectly in the original that it's hard to rechoreograph without using much of the original.

As to Alizee's career: Time will tell.

[HelixSix]

This is what im heading at, you are trying to dictate how she is to be. You are trying to shape her into something that you want. You want to make her another puppet in the pop industry faking and bending doing whatever needs to be done in order to score as much $ as possible.

I don't see how this is gonna help at all, an artist is what he/she is. If you like it then enjoy, if you don't like it then walk away. Don't try to change her, don't try to tell her what is the 'right thing to do', atleast not in this way.

Do you think by ignoring her, skipping her concerts, or whatever you had planned to show your dislike, will make her change into anything better?
Again I ask you, what do you wish to accomplish by making "people more critical" towards her. I think you are using the wrong approach.

Again, im not questioning your ideas, im questioning the reason why you present them.
To be honest I think he enjoys being overly critical of Alizée, even considering that she might not have much control over what is going on.

This thread carries the same negative yet poetically creative stylings scruffy always implements, but toned down and actually more respectful than previous threads he's made about the same subject. He has made so many threads along the same exact lines I have lost count.

You are right, he wants Alizée to satisfy what he thinks she should do, according to what he thinks gives her happiness. Instead of writing anyone in or connected to her team, or posting on her myspace/facebook (which would show he actually wanted to save her career), he comes on here and rants in his traditional super negative tone laced with creative insults. Negativity is one thing, but the creative/insult based effort shown in some of his posts is really disturbing (mostly referring to posts of the past, some of which he deleted after realizing he went too far).

Scruffy is positive about her too though, which he uses in his defense when people get tired of him being negative on here. He denies being bipolar, or having tendencies similar to love one minute hate the next personalities, but that is his prerogative.

The last few months were great, as we had a break from his negative posting. But once again the morale and attitude of this forum has taken a downturn with his unnecessary contributions.

[edgar93]

How can she get good music? That's the big question. Mylene Farmer and Laurent Bouranat I feel may have used Alizée, but they also made her famous and if not rich, at least well off ( is she?). They produced some incredibly beautiful music and performances. The likes of which I doubt I will ever see again. They're gone. What's left. A still incredibly beautiful woman with a beautiful voice.


But why did she stopped working with mylene and boutonnat? I hope, if things doesnt get better, Mylene will help Lili (sounds like magic). Now the music we hear is Alizee's real music, and if she is happy with that I'll be happy:). (but the other people, wont get interested.

[tbailey]

You are correct sir. Which is why you see different versions of the same music in ballets or musicals. Take West Side Story. The original stage/movie were choreographed and copyrighted. In order to get around that, high schools, colleges and community theaters give variations of the dance steps. The dance number with the Jets is the toughest one to restage. It was done so perfectly in the original that it's hard to rechoreograph without using much of the original.

As to Alizee's career: Time will tell.

blah blah

that's all i read

just joking :p

[Deepwaters]

But why did she stopped working with mylene and boutonnat? I hope, if things doesnt get better, Mylene will help Lili (sounds like magic). Now the music we hear is Alizee's real music, and if she is happy with that I'll be happy:). (but the other people, wont get interested.

She stopped working with Mylène and Laurent because she wanted to go in a new artistic direction and do her own thing. I believe Mylène would be willing to help Alizée, but I am not so sure that Alizée would be willing to accept her help.

There is no bad blood between them whatsoever. On this I am completely certain. But that doesn't mean Alizée wants to go back to singing songs written by Mylène Farmer and Laurent Boutonnant. On the other hand, she's nothing if not changeable . . . so who knows?

[lefty12357]

As much as I like MF/LB, they are not the only ones in the world who can make good music, and they are not the only ones who can offer expert advice. Alizée may have found reasonable replacements for the music, but has she found a replacement for their expert advice? Or is she on her own in that regard?

It never hurts to have a more experienced person who has no conflicts of interest (not a guy from the record company) and is solely there to support you and help you make the right decisions. I hope she has someone like that in her corner, although at times it doesn’t seem like she does.

For better or worse, the music is what it is. What matters now is how she plays the hand she is holding.

[Scruffydog777]

She stopped working with Mylène and Laurent because she wanted to go in a new artistic direction and do her own thing.

There is no bad blood between them whatsoever.

I'm not sure if that's true or not. I read several months ago that when Alizée came out with her latest album, she sent the first one to MF and LB and they never responded. Thats an act that doesn't rate high on the friendometer.

[Scruffydog777]

As much as I like MF/LB, they are not the only ones in the world who can make good music


The people who were working with Alizée on her last album may be very, very good at what they do, but that doesn't guarantee the songs they produce will be good. You could have the greatest singer in the world combine with the greatest musician and the greatest song writer, but the end product could be awful.

The thing with Alizée and MF amd LB are that Alizée's voice, Laurent's music and Mylene's lyrics blended so beautifully together.

I wish they would get back together but I don't think they will. That would be heaven. Life is much too cruel for something that wonderful to happen again and like I said, they might find some other great talents to work with her, but that wont guarantee success.

[Rocket]

blah blah

that's all i read

just joking :p

Shut up! :p

[Señor Villa]

Lili should write and produce her next album. A concept album would be nice.

[Scruffydog777]

To be honest I think he enjoys being overly critical of Alizée,

You are right, he wants Alizée to satisfy what he thinks she should do, according to what he thinks gives her happiness.

I didn't enjoy being critical of her. I wanted her comeback to be a great success. I was one of the few who apparently saw what was coming down the road. Most other members like HelixSix kept looking at everything she did through rose colored glasses and had absolutely no constructive criticism to offer, which made me very bitter knowing it would probably come to this. Maybe if people like him had been more critical, her career wouldn't be in such jeopardy today.

And I said before, I don't want her to do anything she doesn't want to do.
If she's happy with the way her career is going then don't change a thing. If retiring would make her happy then by all means, retire.
But like I said before, if she does want much more success, then she has to make changes and stop listening to yes men like HelixSix. That is if it's not too late!

As far as making posts on myspace or other sites. I'm just one of the many fans out there whose letters probably never get read, so I thought it was better to try and get my message across to some of the more influential members in here whose posts do get read by members of her team.

[HelixSix]

Most other members like HelixSix kept looking at everything she did through rose colored glasses and had absolutely no constructive criticism to offer, which made me very bitter knowing it would probably come to this. Maybe if people like him had been more critical, her career wouldn't be in such jeopardy today.
Then find an abundance of quotes on me to make your exaggeration legit. You can't because I am not one of those people. Believe it or not but I only like about half the songs on her new album, and there's a reason for that - because some of her songs are the type of music that simply doesn't appeal to me...this goes for other artists too. The difference between us is that I don't hold it against her that some of her songs don't appeal to me, because that is irrational and unfair thinking towards the artist.

Maybe that is because I actually respect her as an artist and understand she wanted to go in her own direction with this album. There is a big difference in having that attitude compared to having rose colored glasses. I also don't pretend that I'm a know it all music industry expert that has a perfect idea to solve every problem I think she has so I can get my fix.

You are also confusing the idea of "constructive criticism" with what you say. Plus you don't understand that the quantity of criticism you push on us and Alizée can completely negate whatever message you are trying to get across. In the case of negative campaigning being spammed frequently you are not doing anything helpful. You won't even open your mind to the possibility that you might be doing more damage than good....you're just hellbent on a mission of negativity.

But like I said before, if she does want much more success, then she has to make changes and stop listening to yes men like HelixSix. That is if it's not too late!
Even if she was reading this forum she wouldn't be listening to me because I have not been openly agreeing or saying everything she does is perfect. It is truly pathetic that you have decided to slander me in this way, and those kind of tactics across the board are why you wore out your welcome a long long time ago. You have no problem bashing and going after Alizée (because she can't/doesn't reply to you on here), but if somebody else disagrees with your negative bashing on here you turn to slander and try to get them out of your negative campaign path.

In other words, free speech is your best friend until somebody has something to say about your words.

[Rocket]

Instead of a new album maybe she should write a book. I would love to read something like that. I'll bet it would be a best seller in all of the European countries. She could talk about how she started, how she met Mylene, how she felt about winning her awards and so on.

[mavsluver41]

Instead of a new album maybe she should write a book. I would love to read something like that. I'll bet it would be a best seller in all of the European countries. She could talk about how she started, how she met Mylene, how she felt about winning her awards and so on.

This is a very plausible route for her to take after she retires; I agree, her story is one-of-a-kind and it would be fascinating to discover the undisclosed nuances of her career. Acting is another good option: her looks and personality seem to be tailored for it. But why now? Unless her ability to captivate people with a smile and a song disappears, and her well of musical talent runs dry, she should continue to make albums and share her gift in this particular way.

If a time comes when her heart is no longer in her musical career, she is, of course, free to pursue whatever end she desires.

[Deepwaters]

I didn't enjoy being critical of her. I wanted her comeback to be a great success. I was one of the few who apparently saw what was coming down the road.


And just what is it that you say you foresaw? She has, so far, had a modest success with her new album, a tremendously successful concert tour in Mexico, and a canceled concert in France -- the last being the only indication of failure, and it's by no means a final indication. Once she recovers from whatever personal disaster is causing this meltdown, she'll have a chance to pull things together again career-wise.

Constructive criticism? The only suggestion I've seen from you is that she return to working with Mylène and Laurent, which isn't going to happen. If you really want to provide constructive criticism, then stay within the bounds of possibility and suggest ways in which future efforts can be improved. If there is nothing you can say except "go back to M&L," then you might as well say nothing, because you're certainly saying nothing useful.

And that being the case, frankly I doubt the motivations you say you have.

Now, you want some constructive criticism? At this point, I believe I can say two things.

Un -- Alizée, pour ton prochain album, tu dois choisir juste un thème et type de la musique, pas un assortiment comme Psychédélices. Le problem avec un assortiment est qu'il est un peu apprécié par beaucoup des gens, mais aimé par aucun. (For your next album, you should choose a single theme and type of music, not an assortment like Psychédélices. The problem with an assortment is that it is somewhat appreciated by many people, but loved by none.)

Deux -- Je pense que tu dois communiquer mieux avec tes fans. Je pense que je comprends pourquoi tu es muet en ce moment, et c'est vrais que quelques choses sont privé, mais c'est vrais aussi, je pense, que les dommages de ce incident sont grave. (I think you need to communicate better with your fans. I think I understand why you are silent at the moment, and it's true that some things are private, but it's also true, I think, that the damage from this incident is serious.)

There, two things she could do, unlike the suggestion to go back to M&L, which as I said is not going to happen -- nor do I believe it's necessary. And it certainly is NOT constructive to suggest it.

[Bigdan]

Let's be realistic. She's only 24.

At this age, Mylène was just begining, just trying to be a star and had still a year to wait to know real success.


http://danbousq.club.fr/universdan/Post/MylYoung.jpg
(Mylene at 24)

[Tomtentp]

Instead of a new album maybe she should write a book. I would love to read something like that. I'll bet it would be a best seller in all of the European countries. She could talk about how she started, how she met Mylene, how she felt about winning her awards and so on.

Yes I would love to read such a book, but not just yet. Why? Because her journey is far from over. When the full picture is drawn, when her recovery and future success is realized, then is the time to write this book. And this book will be quite a story, a story worth remembering, a fairytale realized.

//Signed the cheese cake :D

[edgar93]

Let's be realistic. She's only 24.

At this age, Mylène was just begining, just trying to be a star and had still a year to wait to know real success.


http://danbousq.club.fr/universdan/Post/MylYoung.jpg
(Mylene at 24)

And Madonna too:p. By the way, madonna was here in toronto today, and yesterday I was wondering, if Alizee had came to the MTVla awards, she was going to the concert. But I didnt go, I prefered to go watching a soccer match:D (toronto 3-2 Chicago :()

[Scruffydog777]

To be honest I think he enjoys being overly critical of Alizée, even considering that she might not have much control over what is going on.

You say I've been overly critical. The harshest thing I've said about her was after the Moscow concert, she looked like a housewife and she sounded like a housewife and I'll stand by those two statements. The dresses she wore on stage looked like Wal-mart specials. She curled her hair which in my opinion was not near as beautiful as when it was straight. The ironic part is she has looked far, far better in her off stage appearances than she has on stage.

I said she sounded like a housewife. MF and LB knew her voice had limitations. They knew certain songs she sang should be enhanced in a sound studio then lip-synced on stage. They knew what songs she should be singing and what songs she shouldn't be singing. Who ever is managing her now doesn't have a clue.

If this is Alizée bashing, then I'll continue to bash away because this is how I honestly feel about her performances.

When anyone in here has anything critical about the way she appears on stage. The order of the rose colored glasses comes out and accuses them of wanting to see her in the Moi Lolita outfit, where the cheeks of her butt are hanging out, or the Gourmandises outfit with the little peekaboo holes in it or the panty exposing J'ai pas vingt ans dress. In the majority of cases they're dead wrong but you cant tell them that. To say anything against her, to them
is a cardinal sin.

I keep saying I want her do whatever makes her happy. Don't change a thing if she likes the way things are going. Retire and have a baby if that suits her, but I think she wants to have a lot more success and if she does, she'll have to make changes. But the order of the rose colored glasses don't listen. They keep putting words in my mouth. They keep saying over and over I'm trying to change her to the way I want her to appear. They hear what they want to hear.

They say she is happy just doing her own thing. Happy? She sold out 6 shows at the Olympia in 1 week back in 2003. She performed roughly 22 concerts in about a 2 month period back then and I bet everyone of them was jam packed. Now she can't fill up one theater in Paris! The French are a very proud people so I'm sure she must feel totally humiliated right now, and people here say she's happy. Unbelievable!

Some people say she can go back to Mexico where she had such great success. The main reason she did so well there, was because the Mexican people, like a lot of people in this forum only found out about her in the past 2 years. They fell in love with the Alizée of the 1999 to 2003 era. She has numerous loving fans there now. But if she goes back with the same quality of a show as her first Mexican tour, she will have far less success than the first tour. I was right about Stalingrad and you can bet your money, I'll be right about this.

Getting back to Stalingrad, say what you want about me and my posts but in my Stalingrad post back in May, I was right!. I hit the nail right on the head. Her career is in trouble right now and I doubt if even the order of the rose colored glasses can save her.



The last few months were great, as we had a break from his negative posting.

There wasn't anything negative in this thread until you showed up!

[mavsluver41]

@Scuffydog777

I think its beneficial to offer constructive criticism about her performances and career (as Deepwaters, RMJ, and others have on many occasions), but it is equally important to appreciate and focus on the good aspects of these same performances as well. I think focusing too much on the former and furiously unleashing streams of criticism, well-intentioned as it may be, makes one come across as pessimistic, over-critical, and generally negative.

I respect your opinions, but respectfully disagree with many of them:

To say anything against her, to them is a cardinal sin.

Following the Moscow concert, there was nearly unanimous disapproval of her languor while performing. People across the boards hoped she'd shed the high heels and inject some vigor into the next concert (and she did). No one then, or now, is accusing anyone of wanting her to embrace her own sex-appeal again.

I keep saying I want her do whatever makes her happy.

she looked like a housewife and she sounded like a housewife and I'll stand by those two statements. The dresses she wore on stage looked like Wal-mart specials. She curled her hair which in my opinion was not near as beautiful as when it was straight.

And what if she likes looking and singing like a housewife? You can't claim to respect her interests and then turn around and bash those very interests with your own opinions.

The French are a very proud people so I'm sure she must feel totally humiliated right now, and people here say she's happy. Unbelievable!

Who is saying that she's happy? I think its very plain to see that there is something ailing her: she has not been herself lately. I don't know how you can insinuate that people are saying she's happy with all the speculation and sadness around the forums.

They fell in love with the Alizée of the 1999 to 2003 era. She has numerous loving fans there now. But if she goes back with the same quality of a show as her first Mexican tour, she will have far less success than the first tour.

Can't say I agree. From what Roman, RMJ, and others who attended the Mexican concerts have written, the tour was largely a success and contained many trademark Lili moments. You speak of Alizée's career as if it were three separate books, rather than three chapters of the same one. If fans fell in love with the Alizée of the 1999 to 2003, they will not be put off by the current Alizée: the beauty is there, the personality is there, there's just more maturity, more clothing (;)), and more freedom of expression. If the quality of her music had declined significantly from her earlier days, I would have agreed that she would have less success, but in my humble opinion, this is not the case. Thus I disagree.

I was right about Stalingrad and you can bet your money, I'll be right about this.

Getting back to Stalingrad, say what you want about me and my posts but in my Stalingrad post back in May, I was right!. I hit the nail right on the head.

Here's what I think is irritating people. I don't think the times are conducive to an "I-told-you-so" thread such as this one.

[Rev]

MF and LB knew her voice had limitations. They knew certain songs she sang should be enhanced in a sound studio then lip-synced on stage. They knew what songs she should be singing and what songs she shouldn't be singing.

Everyone has limitations. Part of good management is to really figure them out and advise the artist so they can always be their best.

They say she is happy just doing her own thing. Happy? She sold out 6 shows at the Olympia in 1 week back in 2003. She performed roughly 22 concerts in about a 2 month period back then and I bet everyone of them was jam packed. Now she can't fill up one theater in Paris! The French are a very proud people so I'm sure she must feel totally humiliated right now, and people here say she's happy. Unbelievable!

Although not all were jam packed (several were less than half full), she has to feel bad about the difference in response.

Who is saying that she's happy? I think its very plain to see that there is something ailing her: she has not been herself lately.

Very true. Her recent response (or lack thereof) is sufficiently out of character that she MUST be going through a difficult time.

We need to cut her a break and (here goes the 60's terms) send her a huge amout of good vibes - and love (lots of love). :)

[Scruffydog777]

@Scuffydog777


And what if she likes looking and singing like a housewife? You can't claim to respect her interests and then turn around and bash those very interests with your own opinions.

I don't know how many times I've stated in this thread how I felt about that and people keep misinterpreting it. Yes I thought she looked and sounded like a housewife but if she was happy with that, then she shouldn't change a thing. Yes I would have liked to see her change for what I preferred but the reason I started the thread was because I felt she had to change to have a successful comeback.



Who is saying that she's happy?

Here is a segment from an earlier post in this thread "Alizée will live happily with plenty of cash until she decides to put out another record"

I don't think she's very happy right now.


Can't say I agree. From what Roman, RMJ, and others who attended the Mexican concerts have written, the tour was largely a success and contained many trademark Lili moments. Thus I disagree.

I'm sure it was one of these gentlemen who said I believe it was about the Guadalajara concert. " The place had a lot of empty seats which only filled up in the last couple of hours " which could be of maybe no significance or possibly some significance but I also remember them saying about the crowd something to the point that they weren't into the show so to hell with them which I think was significant.



Here's what I think is irritating people. I don't think the times are conducive to an "I-told-you-so" thread such as this one.

If you read my opening thread, you'll see there is no semblance of me saying I told you so. I had no intention of saying that. It's only after Helix showed up and added his 2 cents worth that I felt compelled to say it.
[/QUOTE]

[Tomtentp]

Ok, you have forseen your doomsday scruffy, and some have shown their disagreence, let's drop it now. What you guys are doing right now is accusing eachother for random stuff, there is no value in your words. This is just a spinning wheel of hatred going around and around sucking everyones time and energy without any hope of a positive outcome.

Don't fuel the fire.

[TheBarrett]

These long reply-quote-disagree posts are really tiring to read and revise for me.
You're all just working me to extinction aren't you? :p

Here are the points:
-We are happy that she has taken her own artistic direction
-We agree that Psych hasn't done amazing, but some of us respect it in our own way.
-We agree that if she wants success, she has to go a bit mainstream, that's universal...
-We want her to be happy with who she is, but we can't help asking her to make us happy as well.
-We need to find a median, where she and us can have our own level of satisfaction.

[Scruffydog777]

Constructive criticism? The only suggestion I've seen from you is that she return to working with Mylène and Laurent, which isn't going to happen.
Well you obviously didn't read through all the posts.
I said the thing she needed most was some very good music. You can get her some of the best song writers and musicians in the business, but that won't guarantee a good end product. I suppose what she needs most is a manager that knows when something isn't working, who knows when changes need to be made and isn't afraid to tell her.

[The Cap]

Instead of a new album maybe she should write a book. I would love to read something like that. I'll bet it would be a best seller in all of the European countries. She could talk about how she started, how she met Mylene, how she felt about winning her awards and so on.

Odd. I only hear the Charlie Brown cartoon teacher's voice. "Wah wah WAH wah wah ... WAH wah-wah WAH wah."

And Scruffy ... I guess the truth really does hurt. You say it and everybody screams "OW", over and over again, to the point where they refuse to believe it's happening. Denial is more than just a river in Egypt.

[Chommpers]

Odd. I only hear the Charlie Brown cartoon teacher's voice. "Wah wah WAH wah wah ... WAH wah-wah WAH wah."

Hey hey now, once is funny. Once you make a lady feel like everything she says is ignored she is going to get angry, even if it is a joke. Just a little warning.

As far as the topic goes more of the same. I no longer have the patience to discuss what has already been discussed to death.

[Tchaikovsky]

Nobody's perfect.
Gourmandises wasn't perfect.
MCE wasn't perfect.
Psychédélices isnt perfect as well.
I must disagree. MCE was perfect :p

[TheBarrett]

I must disagree. MCE was perfect :p

In the sense of one, it could be.
But as a technical musician and analyst, I have seen one tidbit that made it imperfect:

She got married. :D :p


(after much analyzing, I realize this can be taken in several ways, so go wild)

[Ruroshen]

In the sense of one, it could be.
But as a technical musician and analyst, I have seen one tidbit that made it imperfect:

She got married. :D :p

She got married on the album? Wow...is this like a secret track, or do you have to play it backwards to hear it, like 'John is Dead'?

Y'know, I always thought something sounded off about Coeur Déjà Pris...

[TheBarrett]

She got married on the album? Wow...is this like a secret track, or do you have to play it backwards to hear it, like 'John is Dead'?

Y'know, I always thought something sounded off about Coeur Déjà Pris...

Yes she did.
It's a bonus track off of the November 6, 2003 extra-promotional release of it. :p

[edgar93]

Is it a real track or are you kiddin'?

[mavsluver41]

Is it a real track or are you kiddin'?

Generally, the (:p) following the post gives away the fact that he's kidding ;). Plus, Ruroshen is kidding about 89.7% of the time, so approach anything he says with caution :p.

[Alizee_is_Scottish!]

Stalingrad was a superb victory (for the Allies).

So in three years we can expect world domination by the Alizée alliance.

[edgar93]

Generally, the (:p) following the post gives away the fact that he's kidding ;). Plus, Ruroshen is kidding about 89.7% of the time, so approach anything he says with caution :p.

But Barrett says it was released on November :confused:.

Or was he kidding too :blink:?

[MonteCristo]

Stalingrad was a superb victory (for the Allies).

So in three years we can expect world domination by the Alizée alliance.

through sheer dumb luck. Once again, lets thank Stalins stubborness and the russian soldiers stupidity to follow his orders to lay siege to the city, even though there was barely enough ammunition or food between each soldier. Good thing old man winter loves vodka.

[edgar93]

Hey scruffydog, when you say has the clock stopped ticking? Are you referring that time is over or that the bad times has stopped?:confused:

[Edcognito]

Scruffy - I disagree with you that posting your negative comments and opinions on this forum is ever going to get back to Alizee.

You stated somewhere in this thread that you were just another fan, and didn't think that your comments on her fanpage/whatever would ever get read, so you posted here hoping that some of the more influential members here would get the message to Alizée.

We are fans here, not management, not producers, directors or in any way, shape or form connected with her record label (whatever it is now...) in France. Posting comments HERE hoping to make a difference THERE is illogical...

I hope Alizée changes her "look" and stage performances, because I don't like (as much as I wanted to) her minimalist performances. This will actually be the only time I say that though... Why?

Respect for the other members and their points of view...

You might wish to give it a shot...

Ed:cool:

[edgar93]

You stated somewhere in this thread that you were just another fan, and didn't think that your comments on her fanpage/whatever would ever get read

Who knows if their comments are read by Alizee :confused:, Im afraid she even doesnt read them :blink:. But someone has to manage it, and I think that someone is her record label.

[Deepwaters]

Alizée does browse this forum sometimes, Ed. (And, I assume, she also browses the French language forums. I don't know that for certain the way I know she browses this one, but it makes no sense that she wouldn't.) I know you're skeptical of that, but it's true. I have it on good authority. She has, without a doubt, read some of your posts. :D And she does read English, although she's still not very good at speaking or writing it.

She does respond to constructive criticism from fans. We've seen it happen, in the increased interaction with her audience, and the replacement of high heels with sneakers.

The problem with a lot of Scruffy's critique is that it's not constructive, meaning it's not advice Alizée is able to take. No way is she going to go back to working with Mylène and Laurent like in the old days, and that seems to be the only thing that would make him happy.

I have a suspicion that she may be using this time, in part, to revise some of the things she had been doing, and we may see a much transformed performance in the future. Since she's doing all of it for her fans, naturally she's going to be interested in whether we like it or not and how we think it can be improved. Forums like this one or AF or AFC are good places to post such thoughts, and she checks all of them periodically to get ideas.

All such criticism should try to be helpful to her, though. Bitching just for the sake of bitching doesn't do her any good.

[Hylas1896]

Rocket,

If Alizée wrote a book, I'd read it.

[Rocket]

Me too Hylas. She should title it Moi-Alizee.

[Ben]

and the replacement of high heels with sneakers.
I agree with most of your post, Deep, but there's no reason she couldn't have figured this one out on her own after Moscow. :) For that matter, much of what we perceive as response to fan criticism could just be her independently noticing the same things herself. I know that analyzing and improving upon your own performances is one of Mylene's showbiz strategies.

[edgar93]

Alizée does browse this forum sometimes, Ed. (And, I assume, she also browses the French language forums. I don't know that for certain the way I know she browses this one, but it makes no sense that she wouldn't.) I know you're skeptical of that, but it's true. I have it on good authority. She has, without a doubt, read some of your posts. :D And she does read English, although she's still not very good at speaking or writing it.

She does respond to constructive criticism from fans. We've seen it happen, in the increased interaction with her audience, and the replacement of high heels with sneakers.


Oh yes, she may browse this forum sometimes, she had said it. Just having the idea that She has ever read at least one of my posts excites me :D.

uhh, but reading some comments in your myspace, and knowing some of them are only shit, makes it a boring task, though not every comment is so bad. If I was her, I would read the PMs ;).

Ohh yes, Alizee if you are reading, keep browsing our website :D, you may have fun.

[Deepwaters]

I agree with most of your post, Deep, but there's no reason she couldn't have figured this one out on her own after Moscow. :) For that matter, much of what we perceive as response to fan criticism could just be her independently noticing the same things herself. I know that analyzing and improving upon your own performances is one of Mylene's showbiz strategies.

Snatcher, all I can say is that I know, with certain knowledge, that Alizée does browse her fan sites and pay attention to what her fans say. I wasn't saying that these changes in the performances prove it, only that since I know she does, that's the most likely explanation.

And it's good to know Alizée had such a good teacher as Mylène Farmer. I'm sure it means we'll see continuous improvements over time. Remember, she's only starting to do her own thing without having it all managed for her! We must expect, and forgive, some early stumbles. This is not the end, my brave lads! Up, up and set upon the foe with vigor, nor ever admit defeat!

Meanwhile, I have some personal good news to report, although this isn't necessarily the right place for it. I received the very best sort of rejection letter form an agent today for The Stairway to Nowhere. She said she enjoyed it, was especially impressed with my voice, and thinks I'm really talented; unfortunately, the manuscript I sent her needs focus and tightening -- but she'd love to see something from me in the future.

Now the really cool thing about this is that I'm already in the process of tightening and focusing Stairway based on advice from a writers' support group I've formed, and so I'm going to fax her on Monday and see if her interest in seeing more from me in the future would include the revised Stairway. Hopefully it will, and I have a feeling this is going to be my agent -- but this is very encouraging regardless. So I'm feeling upbeat about the prospects for my own artistic success, as well as those of Her Grace.

[edgar93]

Remember, she's only starting to do her own thing without having it all managed for her!

Thats something I havent think about! She is doing well though its her first album without MF help:rolleyes:

[Quantum]

Alizée does browse this forum sometimes, Ed. (And, I assume, she also browses the French language forums. I don't know that for certain the way I know she browses this one, but it makes no sense that she wouldn't.) I know you're skeptical of that, but it's true. I have it on good authority. She has, without a doubt, read some of your posts. :D And she does read English, although she's still not very good at speaking or writing it.

She does respond to constructive criticism from fans. We've seen it happen, in the increased interaction with her audience, and the replacement of high heels with sneakers.

The problem with a lot of Scruffy's critique is that it's not constructive, meaning it's not advice Alizée is able to take. No way is she going to go back to working with Mylène and Laurent like in the old days, and that seems to be the only thing that would make him happy.


Along those lines, I may - if I can find the time - post some ideas how Alizée might more successfully structure her comeback - taking a mixed marketing-performing perspective. I do think a tighter focus would help her greatly, and she has much success to choose from and build upon. Since this might be a rather detailed proposal involving mostly do's - but a few don't as well, it will take some time to lay it all out. At least I've been thinking about doing this since taking an interest in her public story as it unfolded over the past year or so. I'm still not certain though that a fan site is the ideal forum to undertake such a detailed effort, so then again I might not get no further than writing this concluding sentence.

[Tchaikovsky]

Alizée does browse this forum sometimes,
Source?...

[Deepwaters]

Source?...

Sorry, no. Take my word for it, or don't.

[Edcognito]

Alizée does browse this forum sometimes, Ed.

All such criticism should try to be helpful to her, though. Bitching just for the sake of bitching doesn't do her any good.

Yeah, I remember reading that (HI ALIZEE! :o) - just kinda trying to not run Scruffy off the track and over the cliff - just trying to point out, in my own ham-handed way, that too much negativity and his posts would just get skipped right over and ignored...

I like you guys alot, and hate to see "conflict" here. Really wish RMJ would come back - without his penchant for inflexability... (HI RMJ! :D)

Ed:cool:

[Edcognito]

I'm sure it means we'll see continuous improvements over time. Remember, she's only starting to do her own thing without having it all managed for her! We must expect, and forgive, some early stumbles. This is not the end, my brave lads! Up, up and set upon the foe with vigor, nor ever admit defeat!

A little "MOTIVATIONAL" music for you guys (and gals!).

http://hell.pl/szymon/Baen/There%20Will%20Be%20Dragons/March%20of%20Cambreadth/March_of_Cambreadth.mp3

"The March of Cambreadth"
Author: Heather Alexander

Axes flash, broadswords swing
Shining armors’ piercing ring
Horses run with polished shield
Fight those bastards ‘til they yield

Midnight mare, blood red roan
Fight to keep this land your own
Sound the horn and call the cry
How many of them can we make die?

Follow orders as you’re told
Make their yellow blood run cold
Fight until you die or drop
A force like ours is hard to stop

Close your mind to stress and pain
Fight ‘til you’re no longer sane
Let not one damn cur pass by
How many of them can we make die?

Guard your women and children well
Send these bastards back to Hell
We’ll teach them the ways of war
And they won’t come here anymore

Use your shield and use your head
Fight ‘til everyone is dead
Raise the flag up to the sky
How many of them can we make die?

Dawn has broke, the time has come
Move your feet to the marching drum
We’ll win the war and pay the toll
Fight as one in heart and soul

Midnight mare and blood red roan
Fight to keep this land your own
Sound the horn and call the cry
How many of them can we make die?

Axes flash, broadswords swing
Shining armors’ piercing ring
Horses run with polished shield
Fight those bastards ‘til they yield

Midnight mare and blood red roan
Fight to keep this land your own
Sound the horn and call the cry
How many of them can we make die?
How many of them can we make die?
How many of them can we make die?

Ed:cool:

[TheBarrett]

Hey! Thanks! I liked that! ^
Celtic style music is right up there along with Scandinavian Folk to me!
The vocalist should probably not try to sound like Billy Boyd, should be a bit more like this:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/rGFwWlDNckk&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/rGFwWlDNckk&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>


Harvest the field of time
with the old man's scythe
The narrow path of the chosen one
reaches beyond life

*I set sails for the ageless winds
No fear of dying or a thought of surrender
I threaten every barrier on my way
I am bound forever with Token of Time

Among the humble people
Everything is torn apart
but I'm blessed with faith
and bravely I shall go on

Are thou the bringer of hope and joy
that I've waited for years
I shall fight to restore the moon
Wisdoms of time are carved on the sacred wood

Do thou possess spiritual powers
that would dispel all my fears
I shall not die until the seal is broken
Token of Time is trusted in the hands of the chosen one

[Edcognito]

Hey! Thanks! I liked that! ^
Celtic style music is right up there along with Scandinavian Folk to me!
The vocalist should probably not try to sound like Billy Boyd, should be a bit more like this:


/bows.....

Your welcome good sir!

I'm just bummed that I can't hear your music, because I'm at work, and it won't load! :(

Ed:cool:

[pepelepew]

Oh yes, she may browse this forum sometimes, she had said it. Just having the idea that She has ever read at least one of my posts excites me :D.

uhh, but reading some comments in your myspace, and knowing some of them are only shit, makes it a boring task, though not every comment is so bad. If I was her, I would read the PMs ;).

Ohh yes, Alizee if you are reading, keep browsing our website :D, you may have fun.From what I've seen Alizee can barely speak English let alone interpret it. I doubt she browses much if any. The same way I would not brouse a French speaking website. I can't speak or read it.

[Rev]

People have 4 vocabularies for a language.
Reading is typically the largest.
I forget whether listening or writing is next (I believe writing).
The least is typically speaking.

She understands written English very well. However, she is reluctant to speak it.

Very natural. :)

[Quantum]

There seems to be a diversity of opinion as to the extent of Alizée's English skills, let alone whether she does in fact ever visit this site or follow any particular thread. Were it me I would want to know what fans are thinking and saying - but that's just my interest. I do agree though that reading any new language is much easier than speaking it, or comprehending it when spoken to.

[YesterdaysAirRace]

I do agree though that reading any new language is much easier than speaking it, or comprehending it when spoken to.Sure, since, when reading, one can take all the time needed, look things up, re-read it--not to mention there's no accent, slurring, etc, and most printed material is gramattically correct and not as colloquial.

Then again, these message boards aren't edited printed matter. They're also full of a lot of snarky humor. I'm pretty sure that humor is the last thing a person gets in a foreign language, written or otherwise; except for really crass jokes, humor is a pretty sophisticated concept that requires a lot of unspoken context. Given that, you'd probably all be better off if she never came within a mile of this place. :)

[Ruroshen]

Then again, these message boards aren't edited printed matter. They're also full of a lot of snarky humor.

Snarky humor? Here? I'm sure I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about... :D

I'm pretty sure that humor is the last thing a person gets in a foreign language, written or otherwise; except for really crass jokes, humor is a pretty sophisticated concept that requires a lot of unspoken context. Given that, you'd probably all be better off if she never came within a mile of this place. :)
Yeah. I'm fairly certain she'd read my posts and think "I do believe that poor Canadian boy is retarded...nothing he types makes sense!"

Oh well...maybe she'll like the Star Wars sigs and believe me to be an artistically talented retard... :blink:

[ALS]

It has been brought up before about Alizée spending time reading her fan sites. She confirmed it in an interview shortly after we were discussing her right before her come back. I remember the translation of the interview where it was like she was reading verbatim from one of our members post.

Why would she spend time learning English unless she plans on expanding her market in to the English speaking world? Face it you have a market of 30 million French speaking fans or over two billion potential English speaking fans. If you don't know it, China has the largest English speaking population in the world.

She would be a fool if she wasn't paying attention to the English boards.
From what we can tell her biggest market is outside of France.

I shocked a journalist who writes on French life for a London newspaper.
I sent him the link on Chickapedia where out of the top 100, Alizée was ranked 25th. He is based in Paris and he was floored that Alizée was this popular. He told me he has to get out more in Paris. He absolutely had no clue she was this popular around the world. Seems France's media has no idea how famous she is outside their borders.
Also didn't she say she also knows some Spanish. And how many concerts did she have in Mexico?

[Quantum]

It has been brought up before about Alizée spending time reading her fan sites. She confirmed it in an interview shortly after we were discussing her right before her come back. I remember the translation of the interview where it was like she was reading verbatim from one of our members post.

Why would she spend time learning English unless she plans on expanding her market in to the English speaking world? Face it you have a market of 30 million French speaking fans or over two billion potential English speaking fans. If you don't know it, China has the largest English speaking population in the world.

She would be a fool if she wasn't paying attention to the English boards.
From what we can tell her biggest market is outside of France.

I shocked a journalist who writes on French life for a London newspaper.
I sent him the link on Chickapedia where out of the top 100, Alizée was ranked 25th. He is based in Paris and he was floored that Alizée was this popular. He told me he has to get out more in Paris. He absolutely had no clue she was this popular around the world. Seems France's media has no idea how famous she is outside their borders.
Also didn't she say she also knows some Spanish. And how many concerts did she have in Mexico?


That is encouraging because I do have some ideas to relate to her or her organization. Let's hope she reads this thread, and not before too long.

[edgar93]

Sure, since, when reading, one can take all the time needed, look things up, re-read it--not to mention there's no accent, slurring, etc, and most printed material is gramattically correct and not as colloquial.


Be sure of that :D. Its SUPER hard to understand people speaking other language when you dont have experience. And when people speaks you with colloquial language or slang... :blink: just like happens with me in highschool, what a hard time :p.

Just imagine:

Hey Yo, Alizee, ´sup!
Alizee: :eek:

[TheBarrett]

Sure, since, when reading, one can take all the time needed, look things up, re-read it--not to mention there's no accent, slurring, etc, and most printed material is gramattically correct and not as colloquial.

Then again, these message boards aren't edited printed matter. They're also full of a lot of snarky humor. I'm pretty sure that humor is the last thing a person gets in a foreign language, written or otherwise; except for really crass jokes, humor is a pretty sophisticated concept that requires a lot of unspoken context. Given that, you'd probably all be better off if she never came within a mile of this place. :)

Offtopic but your location is hauntingly similar to the Fibonacci number sequence. :)

[mavsluver41]

Offtopic but your location is hauntingly similar to the Fibonacci number sequence. :)

From the man who damns school and all its scribbling, shuffling tedium :). You can no longer claim education is useless; without it, you would still be scratching your head and wondering what those funny numbers were :D.

[Lerxst]

Offtopic but your location is hauntingly similar to the Fibonacci number sequence. :)

Tool would be proud.
Lateralus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lateralus_(song))

[TheBarrett]

From the man who damns school and all its scribbling, shuffling tedium :). You can no longer claim education is useless; without it, you would still be scratching your head and wondering what those funny numbers were :D.

Actually.
I never learned the Fibonacci from school.
I learned it from Tool.
Which in its own way is a better teacher than any education system can ever be.
Adam Jones taught me how to play power chords awesomely metallic style!
What other kind of education could I need? ;)

[YesterdaysAirRace]

Actually.
I never learned the Fibonacci from school.
I learned it from Tool.
Too funny, I had no idea the Fibonacci sequence had any rock-n-roll cred--I thought it would just be a more polite way to grow exponentially. ;)

Among its many uses, calculating Fibonacci numbers is a favorite technique of unimaginative comp sci professors for teaching freshmen about recursion; that's where I learned it, around a hundred years ago.