AJ wishes to work with MF again

[dan]

MOD EDIT: Here is the original post by Brian01:

Alizée said recently that she does wish to work with MF again.

So in order to keep the forum nice and organized, we will use the thread in the news section for any offical updates on the subject, and this thread here, for discussions, speculations, and over all, just how ya feel about this idea!
_____________
Dan's post:

Interviewer: "Souhaites-tu retourner travailler avec Mylène" ("Would you like to return to working with Mylène?")

Alizée: "Oui"

Source: http://www.mylene.net/modules/index.php?r=4&z=3621

Me: :)

[Scruffydog777]

Thanks Dan.
Here's the article using Bingtranslate.

By the way, this was put out by Mylene.net which has a line that says it's "Le site de reference sur Mylene Farmer" which looks like it means the site of reference for Mylene Farmer.


There is a survey on that page where you can vote yes or no.

I think it's kind of obvious that Alizee would like to rekindle her relationship with MF, the big question is how does Mylene Farmer feel about it.


Kind of interesting this line "The title "idealize" (from the album "Psychédélices") was presented by many as a song dedicated to settling scores Mylène what had categorically denied the author of the text Jean Fauque."

http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/2015/mf3j.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/198/mf3j.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

[Edcognito]

Thanks for that - and the translation.

Much appreciated!

[Scruffydog777]

Here's a picture of the Mylene.net home page.

I was reading through some posts about this song that were posted in AF back in 2007,
(http://www.alizee-forum.com/showthread.php?20118-song-Id%E9aliser)
in which they discussed the meaning of the song and if it was bashing Mylene. I think the big question is, Mylene Farmer is probably the king, or should I say queen of writing songs that are difficult to interpret, so it would be interesting to know how she interpreted this song.


http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/4564/mf4bs.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/689/mf4bs.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

[BrianO1]

Alizée said recently that she does wish to work with MF again.

So in order to keep the forum nice and organized, we will use the thread in the news section for any offical updates on the subject, and this thread here, for discussions, speculations, and over all, just how ya feel about this idea!

[ALS]

I see it as a plus for Alizée's career in the long run. One of my criticisms of her last two albums was that she was relying more on Jeremy and her friends in the local music scene than sitting down and working with the best people in the industry. She is a major fan of Madonna's and Madonna didn't get to the level she's at by using B and C list song writers.

Today we lost Davey Jones of the 60's Rock band the Monkee's. The one plus that made their music so successful was the shows producers realized from the start, that they needed some of the very best song writers writing the music for their TV show.

[Azhiri]

I think that would be a great hypothetical idea, especially if a certain top-notch composer man is added to the equation ;)

[Tchaikovsky]

I really hope this is true. http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s164/yaffa58/smiley_pray.gif If so...




http://i39.tinypic.com/dol7o9.jpg

[Euphoria]

I'd love it, but I'm not quite sure I see it ever happening.

Edit:

Also, when and where did she say that? I haven't really been keeping up with interviews.

Edit:

Nevermind, just saw the other thread.

[Euphoria]

Hmm, well...I just deleted what I wrong before because I only kinda skimmed this thread.

Anyway, I don't really think that song is about Mylene. Mylene has never had an alcohol problem. Isn't that song about Edie Sedgwick?

[Scruffydog777]

The big question is MF willing to work with Alizee and I very much doubt that because quite frankly, she doesn't need Alizee and it appears they haven't been close over the years, so what's in it for Mylene?

It raises the question again of was there bad blood between these 3 (LB too) when they split up?

In another thread that was started today by Dan (not Bigdan), he reported a website called Mylene.net that said that AJ wants to get togehter with Mylene and was taking a poll of how visitors to that site felt.

It also posed the question of whether the song Idealizer was directed at MF and directed in a negative way. That's tough to say. Different people read the lyrics different ways. How did Mylene interpret them?

http://www.mylene.net/


http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/2015/mf3j.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/198/mf3j.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

[BrianO1]

RANDOM SPECULATION, WATCH OUT!!!!

So all of the recent goings ons have reminded of me of some stuff, that I found a bit interesting.

Over the years there has been a lot of speculation that Jeremy was a big part of Lili and MF splitting up. The rumors ranged from him not liking the sexual image MF had Lili use, to Jeremy convincing Lili that she wasn't being paid enough, and MF was holding out on her.


I just found it interesting, that now that it seems Jeremy might be out of the picture, Lili mentions wanting to work with MF again.


But again, that's all just super random speculation :p

[SpanishFan]

I find this very interesting.

Does she need to work with Mylene?
No. I think it is too late for that, they had their time. It would not work. Alizée is not a newcomer nor a teenager anymore, there is no reason for Mylene to "back" another artist that could be direct competence for her.
Artists like her have big egos and we have to remember they would be working in "same level terms", not teacher-pupil like before. I don´t see that happening.

Advice from Mylene, or even a collaboration in a couple of songs would be more plausible and realistic. But even that would surprise me because Mylene's public attitude towards Alizée has been as cold as ice all this time.
I would really like LB writing songs for Alizée again, but since she doesn't even name him, i don't think that is a possibility she is thinking about.

So what does Alizée need?
-Find the right direction: Looks like she took the message on board and her next album will be targeted "for a wider audience". Good.
-A strong and good first single: With the poor record sales of UEDS she needs now more than ever a really good first single. People won't have patience to buy or even listen to the rest of her album if the first single is not good.
-Good decisions: It is quite painful that one of her best songs ever, very commercial, and possibly the one that could attract a lot of non Alizée fans, "Par les paupieres", was not even released as a single back then... I wish a song like that or even better would be the first single of her fifth album.
-A good producer: That is the key, and of course what all musicians want, specially singers like her or Madonna who don't write their own songs. Madonna, Rihanna, Gaga... They are all great performers but at the end of the day is all about the songs and the style, the musical production.
Alizée maybe can not get one of those top producers right now, but with Sony i think she will find one good enough for her and they will put together a good album.
A good producer changed Nelly Furtado's style and career for the best, and sometimes i find some similarities between "Par les paupieres" and some of Furtado's songs, (being of course different musical styles), at least in production and commerciality terms... specially listening to the drums and "keyboards" from 0:38 on

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And finally, and like everybody else, she needs a little bit of luck.
The thing she will have is our support, that is for sure.:)

[Scruffydog777]

I find this very interesting.

Does she need to work with Mylene?
No. I think it is too late for that, they had their time. It would not work.

I disagree. Alizee could find success with someone else, the question is who. I think this will be her last chance to get it right. Apparently she had a large part of choosing who to work with on the first 2 albums and where has that gotten her? Cancelled concerts in Paris with Psych and her last album being labeled a flop. She has to make this one work and if both MF and LB were involved in this next album, I guarantee it would work ( or you get your money back).

Mylene doesn't have to worry about competition from Alizee. She is in a league of her own. I don't think there is any other female singer in France who comes any where near to accomplishing what Mylene Farmer has.

Probably the only thing that Mylene could possibly get out of this, besides money that she probably doesn't need is the satisfaction that she made Alizee an international star, and quite frankly since then, if it wan't for Mexico and LE, she would be considered a flop in France since their seperation, and now she could put Alizee on top again, though it would have to be with LB's music so it could be kind of a " I told you so. " that she might get some satisfaction out of, but I really doubt she's that way.

As far as random speculation, that's a large part of what goes on in here, because we hear very little about Alizee's private life or decisions affecting her career. The whole AJ MP thread is mostly speculation.

I never really heard the Jeremy didn't like the sexual image MF had Lili use, though I wouldn't be surprised if he felt that way because any boyfreind or husband wouldn't want men drooling over her. What I heard is that she knew many of the songs she sang had a sexual meaning to them, but she didn't realize how sexual they were until Jeremy came along and when she did find out, she to say the least, wasn't happy about it.

[Euphoria]

This is going to sound harsh but, depending on how badly Alizee wants to work with Mylene - I'd say it's just because she wants Mylene to pull her out of this rut she's been in the past few years.

I can assure you that most Mylene fans would not want her working with Alizee again. Let's look at a few comments from that page.

"Alizee has no qualms towards Mylene, even when it is thanks to Mylene that the world knows her today...Alizee is a little pretentious here. Live Mylene!"

"We will never see Alizée work with Mylene ... and we would never have heard of Alizee without Mylène ..."

"It does not surprise me that she would work again with Mylène. Since she has left, her sales did not take off!"

Thats just a couple, they're pretty bad.

[SpanishFan]

I disagree. Alizee could find success with someone else, the question is who. I think this will be her last chance to get it right. Apparently she had a large part of choosing who to work with on the first 2 albums and where has that gotten her? Cancelled concerts in Paris with Psych and her last album being labeled a flop. She has to make this one work and if both MF and LB were involved in this next album, I guarantee it would work ( or you get your money back).



Yes, i am sure it would work. Musically.
What i meant not working is their relationship. Of course we all get excited thinking about the possibility of them working together again, but it is not as easy as it sounds. There are so many things... They would need to change eveything... image, style, music...
Alizée singing between teddy bears about gourmandises, bubbles, etc is gone forever. Same as the lolita approach.

We are in 2012 and what she needs is a good album with good songs. I agree she would be succesful teaming up with them again, but i think is impossible right now.
For starters, and if i am not mistaken, Mylene works with Polydor records. I don't see her working with Alizée and Sony...
I like Alizée talking good things about Mylene, that shows me that she is grateful and she does not forget about the people that made her successful.

I know my opinion is not common shared by many people, and i understand.
I am glad she is on the press, and looks like people notice her again, which can only be good. But talks about working with Mylene, if that option is imposible, put even more pressure and expectations in her next album.
Publicity and sense of anticipation, good. Too many expectations, bad;)

[Scruffydog777]

The only other reason I could think Mylene might be willing to work with Alizee again is that she might think, "If it wasn't for me, Alizee would have led a nice normal, probably happy life, but I made her a star, something that very probably nobody else could have done to the degree that I did. Alizee rebelled against me, something any young girl might do once she starts turning into a woman, and I can understand her reasons, so I can't fault her for that, but Alizee has been slowly sinking since then and she wouldn't be in that predicament if I hadn't taken her away from that nice normal life she would have had."

The only question is, how did she rebel?

One good thing SpanishFan pointed out is the two working for different companies. Even if they want to work together, their contracts might make it rather difficult, but not impossible.

[SpanishFan]

Mylene doesn't have to worry about competition from Alizee. She is in a league of her own. I don't think there is any other female singer in France who comes any where near to accomplishing what Mylene Farmer has.


Well you are absolutely right on that.
And that is my point, Mylene created her own musical universe, and she is very successful in it. She is not like the rest.
With Alizée, they created another "universe". This "teenager-lolita" universe in which Alizée found fame and success.
That's why i find another Alizée-Mylene project very difficult to happen . Because Mylene is that different from the rest. It is not a typical artist to collaborate with.

Mylene wanting to help Alizée's career... Only if we had some kind words from her towards Alizée in all these years. It is not the case, and apparently she did not talk with her even in private. (No response to Alizée sending her a copy of her new album)

There is however the craziest of possibilities, Mylene going against all odds and even her own fans and working with Alizée again. But still and sadly, it is one in a million chance.

[Un-rêve]

There are so many things... They would need to change eveything... image, style, music...
Alizée singing between teddy bears about gourmandises, bubbles, etc is gone forever. Same as the lolita approach.

Yeah MF cashed in big time off Alizée and the Lolita image.. it was big buissiness back then with Brittany Spears and all but now it's everyone for themselves.


I like Alizée talking good things about Mylene, that shows me that she is grateful and she does not forget about the people that made her successful.


Agreed.. she's never had a bad word to say about MF, LB or anyone for that matter.. lets hope everything works out well for her no matter what.

[JoeNY]

Another article about her welcoming working with Mylene again. It's all one-sided at this point.

http://www.chartsinfrance.net/Alizee/news-78362.html

]Alizée would rework with Mylène Farmer[/B]

Alizee looks forward to follow up her fifth album, "A Child of the Century". On her Twitter, she shows her fans that she connects the current appointment with her record company, Sony. But for now, she lends her voice to an album of duets Alain Chamfort, and confessed during an interview, want to work again with Mylène Farmer ...

After being announced in preparation for a fifth album, Alizée is promoting its collaboration with Alain Chamfort on the track "Clara wants the moon". Indeed, the singer decided to invite several female artists like Jennifer or Camelia Jordana for an album of duets entitled "They and him." When she was interviewed by our colleagues OffTV (Universal Music), the singer reportedly told of wanting new floor alongside the debut of his mentor: Mylène Farmer. Indeed, the question: "do you want to return to work with Mylène? "Asked a visitor, the singer replied," Yes! ". A brief but clear announcement on when the next interview should focus to try to learn more.

Alizée therefore be tempted to surround herself with people who reach the summit of its glory, with the album "Delights" which is extracted the title "The trade" (No. 1 Top Singles), not counting of course the hit "Moi ... Lolita" released in 2000. An association that might be beneficial after the commercial failure of her latest album "A Child of the Century". Alizée had told our colleagues AuFeminin.com site about the end of the collaboration with Mylène Farmer: "I needed and wanted especially to see something else. To meet people, simply, to share things with others, to learn ... I learned a certain way of working and I needed to see what was happening elsewhere."

[ptjmwa]

Oui, parce que sa musique was meilleur back then! I need to learn more french..haha.

[Fall]

I'm not gonna try to guess whether it will happen or not, but I think in a way, I would like her to work with MF again, and hopefully LB as well, but also it might be a bad thing.

First why I think it might be bad thing. Nothing original, others have said it before. Like Euphoria said, it might seem like an attempt to get pulled out of the low record sales thing. And well I hope ML's fans don't protest about this, though it looks like they're not happy about the idea.

But it might be also a good thing, at least for us Zée fans, because it could provide us with yet another classic, a song (or maybe even songs!) we all love and will post youtube videos, remixes, and many comments about. And well maybe it would turn out alright and do well both in France and abroad :)

[pepelepew]

PURE SPECULATION, I believe Alizee has had as many conversations with Mylene since the split that she wanted. I think they have already discussed the pros and cons of working together again. I also think that Alizee's answer of yes to working with Mylene is a fishing expedition to see the mood of all fans considered. Of course she is not going to disclose any of this in public. We didn't and still don't know for sure her and Jeremy are split or if they are, for how long. We have never heard any disclosures about Jeremy since collaboration on Psyche.
Alizee sent a copy of Psyche to Mylene,but no response. That was 4 yrs. ago. My point is that Alizee has never, will never disclose anything of consequence about her personal life. Alizee shares on a need to know basis. Her fans and her detractors just don't need to know lol.
If the new album is half finished, either it is too late for Mf/LB to collaborate or they are already on board. I also think Sony is telling Alizee to jump and she is asking "how high"? They probably have a whole team of MF/LB's working on this project.

[Azhiri]

Mylene wanting to help Alizée's career... Only if we had some kind words from her towards Alizée in all these years. It is not the case, and apparently she did not talk with her even in private. (No response to Alizée sending her a copy of her new album)

That's a good point to consider.

It's been said of Mylene by family members that while she's very close to her friends, when a connection is severed, she tends to sever it completely and stop speaking with the person altogether. So maybe it's not so much a matter of personal resentment as it is of Mylene just being herself.

[wildfire]

sometimes i find some similarities between "Par les paupieres" and some of Furtado's songs, (being of course different musical styles), at least in production and commerciality terms... specially listening to the drums and "keyboards" from 0:38 on






And finally, and like everybody else, she needs a little bit of luck.
The thing she will have is our support, that is for sure.:)


Uh, ecuuuuuuse me.. permisso, par-don... excusimuah!!!! I feel compelled.. COMPELLED to refresh your noggin on the utter magic, utter beauty, utter trancendence-ing (<--- yeah I know not quite a word) that is Par les Paupieres... that to compare its timeless magic to some pop hip hop rap crap de vogue is like wiping one's bum with a Van Gogh, or a Rembrandt!!!! :)))


Just to .... recalibrate... this lapse of sanity of yours, I'm posting the russian concert of her song just so that you can see it in its raw, natural state !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfeRVQ_fJSo

Now I hope you learned your lesson, You son of a mother! :))

[pepelepew]

Yea Wildfire,the absolute best song from Psych equalling any of her previous songs. As others have stated, Alizee's team missed an opportunity to enter the French music charts when they didn't introduce PLP as a single. I'm not sure it still couldn't be a hit if they got air play today. It is timeless and beautiful. Though her voice had some synthonization, it is classic Alizee.:dance:

[Azhiri]

Yea Wildfire,the absolute best song from Psych equalling any of her previous songs. As others have stated, Alizee's team missed an opportunity to enter the French music charts when they didn't introduce PLP as a single. I'm not sure it still couldn't be a hit if they got air play today. It is timeless and beautiful. Though her voice had some synthonization, it is classic Alizee.:dance:

Agreed 100%. I will always love that song. :wub:

I always thought it sounded like it belonged on Mes Courants Electriques. Something about it has an LB-production feel to me.

[pepelepew]

Agreed 100%. I will always love that song. :wub:

I always thought it sounded like it belonged on Mes Courants Electriques. Something about it has an LB-production feel to me.

Exactly right Azhiri. Actually Psych was a pretty good album in it's entirety. It is unfortunate that it probably wasn't marketed near aggressive enough to get any descent air play. Unfortunately it takes some real heavy weights to get that accomplished. This time Sony will have a lot more skin in the game and my hope is that they can get it done provided it turns out to be a good product that appeals to a wide range of people. Just marketing 101.:)

[Scruffydog777]

Yea Wildfire,the absolute best song from Psych equalling any of her previous songs. As others have stated, Alizee's team missed an opportunity to enter the French music charts when they didn't introduce PLP as a single. I'm not sure it still couldn't be a hit if they got air play today. It is timeless and beautiful. Though her voice had some synthonization, it is classic Alizee.:dance:

By far PLP was the most beautiful song of Psych, but that fact seemed to be lost on her and whoever was working with her and you have to wonder why. Probably just a case like back when they had vinyl records and the A side would be the one they'd be pushing, but the B side became a hit, but I think with this song, it should have been obvious.

[Un-rêve]

Yeah Par Les Paupieres is Pure Alizée Magic!

Well fingers crossed her next album will have some more of that magic!

[lefty12357]

I'm with you guys, PLP is pure Alizée magic! I liked Psych when it first came out and I have to say I like it even more now.

[pepelepew]

By far PLP was the most beautiful song of Psych, but that fact seemed to be lost on her and whoever was working with her and you have to wonder why. Probably just a case like back when they had vinyl records and the A side would be the one they'd be pushing, but the B side became a hit, but I think with this song, it should have been obvious.Yea it should have been the first single, they didn't know what they were doing and probably shell shocked when it was received so poorly. By the time they figured it out, if in fact they ever did, it was too late to save it. I mean it never had any momentum to build on. Moe. Larry, and Curly promotions Inc. don't get it done no matter how good the music after a 4 yr. hiatus. As frustrating as it is to me, I still have to pause and realize that they financed the whole thing with little or no backing. I just think they were ignorant to what the whole production was going to cost to make it happen. I can't even beat up on Jeremy, though he is an easy target. They were both young, dumb and full of you know what lol! Alizee would have been in trouble no matter what by making a decision to leave Mf/LB. I have to accept what she reported as the reason and I still respect her for it. If in fact Jeremy was the one, then the gloves are off him being young at the time or not. Besides I'm still waiting for Alizee to make a statement like," I hate you paparazzi and I just wanted to teach you all a lesson for all your speculations and inuendo's." "Jeremy and I are still madly in love and will be until eternity" "You all can just kiss my shapely a$$" " That also goes for my so called fans that were making sh#@ up about me";)

[SpanishFan]

...that to compare its timeless magic to some pop hip hop rap crap de vogue is like wiping one's bum with a Van Gogh, or a Rembrandt!!!!

Now I hope you learned your lesson, You son of a mother! :))

:confused:

I think you took that comparison from my post totally out of context.
I was talking about both songs to demonstrate two things: The importance of a good producer and the importance of taking the right decisions.

Since you were shocked by the comparison, let me explain further.
In my opinion, they are both young, talented and attractive women.
Nelly furtado: 33 years old, born in Canada, portuguese parents.
Alizée: 27 years old, French, born in Corsica.

Nelly: "At age four, she began performing and singing in Portuguese. She began playing musical instruments at the age of nine and as a teenager, she performed in a Portuguese marching band. Furtado has acknowledged her family as the source of her strong work ethic; she spent eight summers working as a chambermaid with her mother, along with her brother and sister, who was a housekeeper in Victoria. She has stated that coming from a working class background has shaped her identity in a positive way."

Young performer in a non english language and with strong family values... Sounds familiar?

Nelly:"With the collaboration of producer Eaton and West, her debut album, Whoa, Nelly! was released in October 2000.The album was an international success, supportted by her first single hit "I´m like a bird"
Alizée: "Alizée debuted in 2000 with the album Gourmandises. It went on to become a hit both in Europe and outside. The album reached top five in charts in France, Italy, Greece, Germany, Mexico, and others. Alizée made her debut with the single "Moi... Lolita", her most successful to date. It enjoyed success throughout most of Europe and parts of East Asia, reaching number one in several countries"

Nelly:: "Furtado's second album, Folklore, was released in November 2003. The final track on the album, "Childhood Dreams", was dedicated to her daughter, Nevis. The album was not as successful as her debut, partly due to the album's less "poppy" sound"
Alizée:: In 2003, Alizée returned with her second album Mes Courants Électriques (My Electric Currents). While it had some success in and outside France, this second album was not as well-received as her first one.

Nelly: "On September 20, 2003, in Toronto, Furtado gave birth to a daughter, Nevis Chetan Furtado, whose father is Jasper Gahunia. Furtado and Gahunia, who had been good friends for several years, remained together for four years until their breakup in 2005. Furtado told Blender magazine that they continue to be good friends and jointly share responsibility of raising Nevis."
Alizée: We know.

Nelly:"In 2006, Furtado took part in an AIDS awareness concert in South Africa, she also hosted a program about AIDS on MTV.
Furtado announced during Free the Children's WeDay Toronto, that she was giving $1,000,000 to Free the Children's effort to build girls' schools in the Maasai region of Kenya"
Alizée: We know.

So until now there are some similarities. It is in their third album where the differences appear, and i blame it precisely in wrong production and wrong decisions.

Nelly: "In summer 2006, she released her third studio album, Loose. It is her biggest success to date worldwide"


I am an Alizée fan, and in a much minor scale, a Furtado fan. I respect her talent and her career, but what Alizée makes me feel no other artist can.
It is just that whenever i watch Nelly i always think that Alizée could do it just like her. But she did not take the right decisionds at the right time.
Having said that, Alizée probably would not change more fame and success back at the time for the fact of having Annily. She wiil never tell, so i do not think too much about that anymore.





Just to .... recalibrate... this lapse of sanity of yours, I'm posting the russian concert of her song just so that you can see it in its raw, natural state !


It is good to watch her singing in Russia, my point is that Alizée and PLP were good enough to watch her on Letterman...




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[Scruffydog777]

Yea it should have been the first single, they didn't know what they were doing and probably shell shocked when it was received so poorly. By the time they figured it out, if in fact they ever did, it was too late to save it. I mean it never had any momentum to build on. Moe. Larry, and Curly promotions Inc. don't get it done no matter how good the music after a 4 yr. hiatus. As frustrating as it is to me, I still have to pause and realize that they financed the whole thing with little or no backing. I just think they were ignorant to what the whole production was going to cost to make it happen. .......................

You have to wonder where Alizee is going to get the financial backing for this next album. The album willl probably need plenty of promotion and a couple of good music videos to go along with it. That wont be cheap. At this point, you have to assume that Jeremy wont be helping her. But after her meetings with Sony and Jive, it looks like it will definitely happen because I don't think they would be a part of this if they had any doubts about her being able to finance it. So I'd have to think the money is in place for this next album.

[Euphoria]

The past 4 or 5 years, Alizee's had NO ONE that really knows what they're doing and they're just giving her terrible advice. I don't care what she wanted to do, you don't let someone walk off a cliff like that. I was so entirely disappointed by UEDS because the more you fail, the less people will want to work with you. Do you guys really want her to lose all contacts and possible investors because she can't sell any albums? You're supposed to save that kind of experimenting when your career is already set and you have the money to burn. The reason Mylene's experimenting was always so successful is because she maintained a level of edginess. LB is a great writer, but mixed with Mylene's lyrics and image, it's been the perfect mix.

Right now, people want debauchery. This type of thing happens when there's an economic downturn. The same thing happened during the Great Depression - they wanted sex, alcohol, and drugs because it's a way to escape. Anyway, my whole point with this is she needs to find a way to put her own spin on what is popular right now. People don't want the wholesome mom wearing sneakers and tit curtains (excuse that term but its the only way I can think to describe it). She can totally be sexy and mysterious without overdoing it.

What I would really love to see the most is Alizee writing her own lyrics. People love that, they want to take a ride in Alizee's shoes, feel a little bit of what she's felt. Why do you think people love Mylene's lyrics so much? Because they can connect with her. Mylene is one of the most mysterious artists out there, but through her music, you really get a feel of who she is as a person. That's why I pay a lot of attention to Alizee's lyrics. While Mylene might have created her image, Alizee still confided in her and wrote a lot about her experiences. I'd really like to see that again because I don't give a crap about concept albums or Edie Sedgwick.

Edit:

Oops, I meant to post that in the working with MF thread, can move it if you want.

[lefty12357]

The past 4 or 5 years, Alizee's had NO ONE that really knows what they're doing and they're just giving her terrible advice. I don't care what she wanted to do, you don't let someone walk off a cliff like that. I was so entirely disappointed by UEDS because the more you fail, the less people will want to work with you. Do you guys really want her to lose all contacts and possible investors because she can't sell any albums? You're supposed to save that kind of experimenting when your career is already set and you have the money to burn. The reason Mylene's experimenting was always so successful is because she maintained a level of edginess. LB is a great writer, but mixed with Mylene's lyrics and image, it's been the perfect mix.

Right now, people want debauchery. This type of thing happens when there's an economic downturn. The same thing happened during the Great Depression - they wanted sex, alcohol, and drugs because it's a way to escape. Anyway, my whole point with this is she needs to find a way to put her own spin on what is popular right now. People don't want the wholesome mom wearing sneakers and tit curtains (excuse that term but its the only way I can think to describe it). She can totally be sexy and mysterious without overdoing it.

What I would really love to see the most is Alizee writing her own lyrics. People love that, they want to take a ride in Alizee's shoes, feel a little bit of what she's felt. Why do you think people love Mylene's lyrics so much? Because they can connect with her. Mylene is one of the most mysterious artists out there, but through her music, you really get a feel of who she is as a person. That's why I pay a lot of attention to Alizee's lyrics. While Mylene might have created her image, Alizee still confided in her and wrote a lot about her experiences. I'd really like to see that again because I don't give a crap about concept albums or Edie Sedgwick.

Edit:

Oops, I meant to post that in the working with MF thread, can move it if you want.

I too, would like to see Alizée write some lyrics. I think she may be able to do it if she would just be willing to open that part of her heart up. I've even hoped she would learn a simple piano or guitar part for even just one song and perform it on stage with a backing band. Anything to involve her more in the process and show another dimension.

As far as concept albums go, some of my favorite albums are concept albums. But having said that, I believe you are right that being in the genre Alizée is, and the point at which she is in her career, concept albums are not necessarily the right choice for her.

[BrianO1]

I too, would like to see Alizée write some lyrics. I think she may be able to do it if she would just be willing to open that part of her heart up.

That's the only problem. Lili is so private, I've always felt that was one of the main reasons she DOESN'T write her own lyrics.

She has ALWAYS been quick to point out that she is "playing a role" with her music. She said that through all 4 albums, She was simply the narrator of the stories written by the musicians she works with.

With people like MF, and I'm sure the other artists she's worked with, some of the ideas are based off of Lili, her views, and her life. But over all, she is simple telling another authors story. And I think that's the way she likes it.

To write her own lyrics, would mean (intentionally or not) opening up parts of her life that she normally doesn't enjoy making public. So I think That may be why she has shyed away from it for so long.



I do agree I think it would be a good move though. You look at artists today like Adel, who sings a lot about heartbreak, and bad relationships. That resonates with people. People can relate to that. We have all had heartbreak sometime in our lives, so we can all see part of ourself in that music. Lady Gaga sings a lot about acceptance of oneself, and of others who may be different. Again, we can all relate to at some point, being different, and wishing people would be more accepting.

A good beat and a pretty voice, can only take a song so far. If people can't relate to the music, then the song will only be poplular until the next new beat comes out.

Songs people can relat to, last for decades.


I'm not saying Lili should write a song about the possible divorce she may have gone through, but writing a more personal song, something close to her heart, something that is part of her, I think will resonate with people better. And people will be able to relate to it better. Better then Andy Worehol thinking you are pretty would resonate at least.


And I think that would be a huge step in making this next album a success.

[pepelepew]

You have to wonder where Alizee is going to get the financial backing for this next album. The album willl probably need plenty of promotion and a couple of good music videos to go along with it. That wont be cheap. At this point, you have to assume that Jeremy wont be helping her. But after her meetings with Sony and Jive, it looks like it will definitely happen because I don't think they would be a part of this if they had any doubts about her being able to finance it. So I'd have to think the money is in place for this next album.Scruffy remember that Wisteria song was the producers of her last two albums. Alizee was able to have artistic control exclusively by producing her own album. I presume that Sony will not only be the label, but will produce, market and dictate total control of content, personna,wardrobe etc. She will have little if any say this time. Obviously Sony see's an opportunity to exploit Alizee's talents or they would not keep her on their label. My cocern is that they are going to require her to go in the direction that she rejected with Mylene and if she wants to have a shot at relevancy in pop music,she may be desperate enough to agree to project an image that compromises her sense of decency and artistic integrity. I hope she walks away if they try to exploit her. The music industry have broken many music artists that came in with moral clarity and ended up like Britney Spears for example. I believe Britney was as clean cut as Alizee before the music industry got their hands on her and we all know how that movie has ended. Yea she is famous, but at what cost. I am fearful that no one has her back and Sony has her just where they want her. :confused:

[wildfire]

I'm with you guys, PLP is pure Alizée magic! I liked Psych when it first came out and I have to say I like it even more now.

Not only do I agree, I concur. Not only do I concur, I accede. Not only do I accede, I acknowledge. Not only do I acknowledge, I acquiesce....

Edit:

"You all can just kiss my shapely a$$" ;)


Oh Pepel, you with the riddles... OK, let me see i I can guess this one... Hmmmm..... Shapely Arm? Shapely Arab? Shapely Armadillo? Shapely AWACS? Shapely Army? Shapely Ammo? Shapely Anaconda? Shapely Armor.... Oh I give up!!! :)))

Edit:

:confused:

I think you took that comparison from my post totally out of context.



..I think I just needed the smallest push as an excuse to rant on Alizee!! :)) I was just kidding SpanishFan, I didn;t mean anything by it! :bye: Perdon si no intendiste me chisme que you estoy loco por Alizee!!! ;)

Edit:

You have to wonder where Alizee is going to get the financial backing for this next album.

Simple.... She gets HALF of Jeremy's stuff now!!!! :)) ZING! :yikes: Ker-Pow! OUCH!!! hehehe.... :blink: um... too soon you think? :runaway:

[Bigdan]

The past 4 or 5 years, Alizee's had NO ONE that really knows what they're doing and they're just giving her terrible advice....

People don't want the wholesome mom wearing sneakers and tit curtains (excuse that term but its the only way I can think to describe it). She can totally be sexy and mysterious without overdoing it.

What I would really love to see the most is Alizee writing her own lyrics. People love that, they want to take a ride in Alizee's shoes, feel a little bit of what she's felt. ...

I'd really like to see that again because I don't give a crap about concept albums or Edie Sedgwick.


:clap::clap::clap:

[Scruffydog777]

I've said several times before that she really needs a manager who knows what they're doing and as Euphoria said, she hasn't had that in the past 4 or 5 years.

This years Les Enfoires showed with "Rolling in the deep" that she can turn up the heat without being vulgar and I think that's what we should hope for. Her showing more of her sexy side, something she's probably more willing to do now that she apparently is no longer with Jeremy, but something that can be done tastefully?????

It would be great if she wrote some of her own lyrics. Wasn't the song Lou ou toi based on something that happened in her life. I thought it was a great song, but as Brian mentioned, I don't think she'd want to open up her personnal life and expose other people in her life.

Take for instance Carly Simon's "You're so vain". It was supposedly written about her relationship with Warren Beatty and though she never admitted it (except to one fan I believe), everyone suspected it was him and it kind of cast him in a bad light. So you would think a very good song could possibly be written about Alizee's relationship with Jeremy, but I feel she would never do that, even if they seperated (did they????) on bad terms. She would never want to profit at his expense.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/mQZmCJUSC6g" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Taxi Driver Aaron]

People don't want the wholesome mom wearing sneakers and tit curtains.


tit curtains.... http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h52/Ti42/Smilies/lmao.gif

[pepelepew]

I've said several times before that she really needs a manager who knows what they're doing and as Euphoria said, she hasn't had that in the past 4 or 5 years.

This years Les Enfoires showed with "Rolling in the deep" that she can turn up the heat without being vulgar and I think that's what we should hope for. Her showing more of her sexy side, something she's probably more willing to do now that she apparently is no longer with Jeremy, but something that can be done tastefully?????

It would be great if she wrote some of her own lyrics. Wasn't the song Lou ou toi based on something that happened in her life. I thought it was a great song, but as Brian mentioned, I don't think she'd want to open up her personnal life and expose other people in her life.

Take for instance Carly Simon's "You're so vain". It was supposedly written about her relationship with Warren Beatty and though she never admitted it (except to one fan I believe), everyone suspected it was him and it kind of cast him in a bad light. So you would think a very good song could possibly be written about Alizee's relationship with Jeremy, but I feel she would never do that, even if they seperated (did they????) on bad terms. She would never want to profit at his expense.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/mQZmCJUSC6g" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>That would be great Scruffy and there is an outside chance that someone that is a fan has upped some money to finance her album, giving her artistic leverage, and there is an outside chance that Sony and the producers of their choosing may actually get it right and either or pics lyrics and music at least to the level of MF/LB. I have seen no indication that Alizee desires to write her own material and if she did find someone with the talent of afore mentioned to write the accompanying music to the lyrics. Pigs will probably fly first. Although there is also the outside chance that Alizee will surprise me and do what you suggested. Necessity is the mother of invention. I pray that you are right Scruffy! She is a very smart cookie. Anything is possible with her.

[mzracing76]

You all are going to be very disapointed. Alizee is not going back to her "pop style" roots. although, her new album will be her best yet on her own, mostly like her 3rd album, rather than her 2 with Mylene. Alizee has no intentions on doing a "album" with Mylene, however, she holds Mylene and Laurent in great levels of respect. The only reason she is requesting to to team up with Mylene is perhaps to creating a song here, and a song there, not to create a entire album. that would allow her fans to have some sort of loyalty to Mylene and what once was. Alizee doesnt want that former image, or style. she wants her "NEW" style. she wants to sing all forms of music from Rock, Rap, Electric, Pop, Slow Contemporary. There is no going back to her roots, but what she prefers is to team up with Mylene to offer a few songs/styles from that era from the past. Like I said, you are all setting yourselves up for disapointment rather than excitement.

Enjoy ALizee's New CD. it will be a mixed style from each of her first 4 albums. That is the beauty of Alizee, that is her Legend, and the Future.

[Karin]

You all are going to be very disapointed. Alizee is not going back to her "pop style" roots. although, her new album will be her best yet on her own, mostly like her 3rd album, rather than her 2 with Mylene. Alizee has no intentions on doing a "album" with Mylene, however, she holds Mylene and Laurent in great levels of respect. The only reason she is requesting to to team up with Mylene is perhaps to creating a song here, and a song there, not to create a entire album. that would allow her fans to have some sort of loyalty to Mylene and what once was. Alizee doesnt want that former image, or style. she wants her "NEW" style. she wants to sing all forms of music from Rock, Rap, Electric, Pop, Slow Contemporary. There is no going back to her roots, but what she prefers is to team up with Mylene to offer a few songs/styles from that era from the past. Like I said, you are all setting yourselves up for disapointment rather than excitement.

Enjoy ALizee's New CD. it will be a mixed style from each of her first 4 albums. That is the beauty of Alizee, that is her Legend, and the Future.

interesting, but... Psychédélices was mix of many styles and how it ended...

[User22]

You all are going to be very disapointed. Alizee is not going back to her "pop style" roots. although, her new album will be her best yet on her own, mostly like her 3rd album, rather than her 2 with Mylene. Alizee has no intentions on doing a "album" with Mylene, however, she holds Mylene and Laurent in great levels of respect. The only reason she is requesting to to team up with Mylene is perhaps to creating a song here, and a song there, not to create a entire album. that would allow her fans to have some sort of loyalty to Mylene and what once was. Alizee doesnt want that former image, or style. she wants her "NEW" style. she wants to sing all forms of music from Rock, Rap, Electric, Pop, Slow Contemporary. There is no going back to her roots, but what she prefers is to team up with Mylene to offer a few songs/styles from that era from the past. Like I said, you are all setting yourselves up for disapointment rather than excitement.

Enjoy ALizee's New CD. it will be a mixed style from each of her first 4 albums. That is the beauty of Alizee, that is her Legend, and the Future.

Video of her saying this or it didn't happen. Cause unless you are Alizée, there is a very small chance you know what Alizée wants haha.

[OGRE]

Mylene knows what works on multiple levels in the industry. The first time around Alizee was just part of the machinery. Now Alizee has her feet wet in all the other things that are needed to make the machine run. So there is a vastly different appreciation for everything else.

Getting back together now won't be a dive into the past. It will be a BUSINESS relationship between adults. Still master and apprentice. But the apprentice is now equipped with a load of insights and skills that were non-existent the first time.

In fact, the concept of "back together" is moot. How about just "get together". Because even if Alizee had never been part of that machine, the ability to tap into the expertise (at whatever level) is a good thing.

[Melle Katherine]

I couldn't read the all comments here, but... here's my opinion.
I used to hate Myléne between 2005-2011. I don't know exactly why, but I think she's too vulgar. She was nude in her old clips, come on... So I think Jérémy is right, if he really disliked that sexual image. I think Myléne want Alizée to be similar to her, to be a "mini Myléne"... And she didn't realized that Alizée is different. Alizée isn't like her, never was and never will be. Alizée did right, that she left Myléne & Laurent. She had to find her own way, her own style, the music she likes and want to make. I admire Jérémy because of his work with "Psychédélices". I think it was a great album, AND DON'T TELL IT WASN'T OR IT WASN'T SUCCESSFUL! Because it was. Just the stupid Myléne-adorer French people weren't curious about her without Myléne... But she has much better voice, than Myléne has! If this album would be someone else's, it would be a great success. If it would be her first one, then too.
BUT: Last year I started listening to Myléne's music. Some of them I like, and I have to tell you that she's very talented and creative, but I prefer Alizée. It's a fact, that Myléne's the greatest singer in France and she does the things well. She can also write very good lyrics too, and Laurent is a great composer. But I don't want them to work again with Alizée. Myléne and Laurent used her, and Jérémy made Alizée understand it. She's better off without MF & LB...

Speaking of... Do you remember that letter from Myléne? She sent to Alizée a letter at the end of 2011, Alizée also tweeted a picture about it. I'm curious what could be written in that letter...

[Scruffydog777]

I think as I've said many times before that feathers were ruffled in the break up of Alizee, MF and LB and I think that all this letter shows is that it's in the past. They're are no more hard feelings, at least between MF and Alizee, but that's about it. Mylene probably offered her words of encouragement, but nothing else. I think Alizee realizes how major a part they were for her early success and probably wishes there was a way they could have stayed working together in a way that would have been more befitting as to who she was, instead of who Mylene was.

A lot is said about how Alizee's lack of success is due to so many of Mylene's fans being bitter about the break up, but there are so many fans in France who are not fans of Mylene. The truth of the matter is as opposed to the U.S., in France she is competing against a larger international music world, with plenty of great singers and great songs and having songs that are good, just isn't good enough.

Look at Beyonce in this years Superbowl half time show. She sang good songs. She looked stunning and had some very good dance routines. For most of Alizee's performances in recent years, she's barely had one of the three. How can she hope to compete? She doesn't dance any more. She's still good looking, but she threw away her great looks. It's a very competitive industry and plenty of artists work hard to put on a good show, because that's what the fans want. They want to be entertained and Alizee falls far short in putting on the type of show she used to put on.

[lapinschous]

* I think Alizee realizes how major a part they were for her early success and probably wishes there was a way they could have stayed working together


* she is competing against a larger international music world, with plenty of great singers and great songs and having songs that are good, just isn't good enough.

*Look at Beyonce in this years Superbowl half time show. She sang good songs. She looked stunning and had some very good dance routines. For most of Alizee's performances in recent years, she's barely had one of the three.

*How can she hope to compete? She doesn't dance any more.

* It's a very competitive industry and plenty of artists work hard to put on a good show, because that's what the fans want.

*They want to be entertained and Alizee falls far short in putting on the type of show she used to put on.



As always, Scruffy is right on pretty much everything. Back then , before the break up Alizée didn't realize how insignificant she is compared to Mylène's 200 Million Euros worth empire as the most successful french female singer alive ... She went from nothing to international fame in the blink of an eye thanks to MF & LB massive marketing machine , she didn't understand that it would have been impossible for most singers to succeed that "blitzkrieg" in the charts .

Everything was served on a silver plate, the songs, the fans, the tv shows, the great music, she only had to do the two things she's good at singing (well , sometimes) and mostly dancing .

But then happened the 20yo crisis and she threw everything away, falling in love with a guy whose success would be over in a matter of few years.

And then she distanced herself from the competitive world that Scruffy mentionned, she completely changed her singing style, stopped dancing and got in touch with the wrong people . :(

[Azhiri]

I don't think anything like "Alizee felt this way about MF" or "Alizee regrets leaving that team for these reasons" should be presented as a factual statement ever, ever. We don't know what was going through her head at any point - we may have an idea or we can infer from things she's said, but nothing like that can be known for sure and to say otherwise is a little silly.

Here's a question, from me to you guys: What IF Alizee had never left MF-LB? What might they have done with her image, and would we have approved?

In the book Lolita, the titular character (whom Alizee's image at the time was based on) grew up to be a worn, sad, broken young woman and died at an early age. Perhaps MF would have continued to follow this character (though very loosely at this point) and given Alizee's image a bad girl flavor with more underlying dark tones to her music. MF's own music and image can be pretty twisted and dark from what I've seen. Maybe Alizee's tattoos and "I'm not answering to anyone but me" attitude aren't that far off from what MF would have had her doing anyway.

[Scruffydog777]

There was a member who I haven't seen post in the past year or so who said that there used to be a dark side if not to all, certainly most of the songs that were written for Alizee by MF. I don't beleive all of them had a dark side, but who knows. The only exception being the songs rewritten into English.

Now MF likes to go in that direction apparently, certainly for herself and I'm sure that's the direction she wanted Alizee to go in, but that doesn't mean that things couldn't have been different?

Most of us English only speaking types are handicapped by having to read the interpretations of the French story and we are handicapped by most of us being over 3,000 miles away from where everything is happening or should I say happened, but I believe Alizee was unhappy when she found out there was a deeper, darker meaning, in addition to the obvious meanings of the songs and that was "part" of the reason for the break up.

But I think if Alizee had gone to MF and said, "I don't mind being sexy (in fact I think she enjoyed that), but I don't want to be vulgar.", then something could've been worked out.

Now maybe MF would have said "I'm sorry, but raunchy is the direction I like to go and if you don't want to go in that direction, it's time we part company.", but I don't believe that. I think Alizee was unhappy with the deep down meanings of her song and something could have been worked out, but there were other factors, mainly involving Jeremy, that led to them not even trying to reach that happy medium.

As far as does Alizee regret leaving them? Absolutely! Just for the sake that every song they wrote for her was a good song and for the sake she was a somebody when she was with them. In France, she's still a nobody. I think she had the mistaken impression that her success was due mostly to her and not to them and she didn't realize until too late, that without good songs and good music, she is just another good voice in a sea full of many.

[Euphoria]

I think she made a bigger mistake disappearing for 4 years. She appears to have lost her work ethic.

[Future Raptor Ace]

I think she would have been much bigger than she is now and I think most people here would accept, follow, and like her no matter what she does. To her credit she really did create loyal fans who show her unconditional love.

I think she made a bigger mistake disappearing for 4 years. She appears to have lost her work ethic.
Agreed.

[melovelily]

What might they have done with her image

Something like this

http://www.ifuckedyourmum.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/rihanna-slut-on-stage-pics-whore-5.jpg

Or this

http://s1.motherlessmedia.com/dev153/0/515/926/0515926127.jpg

:rolleyes:

would we have approved?

http://www.abload.de/img/bryannolnekf.gif

And would she be popular ?

Absolutely but only as a sex object :no:

[Jake04]

I think she made a bigger mistake disappearing for 4 years. She appears to have lost her work ethic.

Agreed! Also, she's a victim of circumstances. Can you imagine if we had Youtube back in 2000-02 during the height of her career? Or fb and twitter in those years? I'm pretty sure she would have kept in touch with her fans. And most of her fans would not have felt abandoned and thus, moved on.:sigh:

[Scruffydog777]

Disappearing was a huge mistake on her part. All she had to do was throw her fans a bone once in a while and she would have had fans forever, but she dumped them like a hot potato. She also dumped those who worked with her and relied on her for some income. She gave no thought to them or her fans.

But when she came back, great songs could have overcome that, but the songs weren't all that good and the total package was so far behind in what it used to be.

I don't think it's a case of her being a victim of circumstance. I think it's more a case of her being young and naive. Taken out of school at far too early an age. She didn't learn the lessons that school can teach you and she certainly didn't learn the lessons that life can teach you. She's learning them now, but by the time she learns enough, I think it will be too late.

EDIT:
Well I guess by definitition; that does make her a victim of circumstance.

[Azhiri]

There was a member who I haven't seen post in the past year or so who said that there used to be a dark side if not to all, certainly most of the songs that were written for Alizee by MF. I don't beleive all of them had a dark side, but who knows. The only exception being the songs rewritten into English.

Now MF likes to go in that direction apparently, certainly for herself and I'm sure that's the direction she wanted Alizee to go in, but that doesn't mean that things couldn't have been different?

Most of us English only speaking types are handicapped by having to read the interpretations of the French story and we are handicapped by most of us being over 3,000 miles away from where everything is happening or should I say happened, but I believe Alizee was unhappy when she found out there was a deeper, darker meaning, in addition to the obvious meanings of the songs and that was "part" of the reason for the break up.

But I think if Alizee had gone to MF and said, "I don't mind being sexy (in fact I think she enjoyed that), but I don't want to be vulgar.", then something could've been worked out.

Now maybe MF would have said "I'm sorry, but raunchy is the direction I like to go and if you don't want to go in that direction, it's time we part company.", but I don't believe that. I think Alizee was unhappy with the deep down meanings of her song and something could have been worked out, but there were other factors, mainly involving Jeremy, that led to them not even trying to reach that happy medium.

As far as does Alizee regret leaving them? Absolutely! Just for the sake that every song they wrote for her was a good song and for the sake she was a somebody when she was with them. In France, she's still a nobody. I think she had the mistaken impression that her success was due mostly to her and not to them and she didn't realize until too late, that without good songs and good music, she is just another good voice in a sea full of many.

I think that was definitely a factor that contributed to Alizee leaving MF. I think I remember her stating in the past that when she became aware of the play-on-words style of Mylene's lyrics and underlying sexual innuendos, she felt uncomfortable with them. I also agree that something definitely could have been worked out, but Alizee was young and naive, and she was presumably in love with Jeremy at the time. Love can make you blind. Plus I'm assuming (and I could be wrong) that the work that went into creating and promoting Alizee's music and image were essentially funded by Mylene herself, so I have to wonder how much she would have been willing to compromise when the entire thing was on her own time and money.

I also wonder how much she likes singing good songs that were written by someone else with little input from her, as opposed to songs that are subpar (but not terrible) that she oversaw the making of herself. I'd like to think there are more factors that went into her thought process than success, but in the end I don't know for sure.

[BrianO1]

The discussion about song meaning is off topic, and getting a bit out of hand.

I moved the civil posts to the proper thread in the Alizée translation section, and deleted the few that were not.


Please remain civil and respectful, even if you are disagreeing with someone. I'm pretty sure everyone on this forum is at least 16 or 17, so everyone should be able to do this.

[foxy]

I don't think it was off-topic because the thread is about Alizee and MF...
Whatever, I don't understand the lyrics, so I' m not bothered by the double meanings

[BrianO1]

It was off topic because this thread is about Lili and MF Working together again. Not the translation of her songs. That's why there is a translation of songs thread. :)

[lapinschous]

Here's a question, from me to you guys: What IF Alizee had never left MF-LB? What might they have done with her image, and would we have approved?



Here's what they would have done with her image, as to whether or not we would have approved, I let you guys answer...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKwLSWkRsWE&NR=1

[Euphoria]

I love MF, so it wouldn't bother me if Alizee had gone in that direction.

[Araz77]

Lapinschous, dafaq did I just watch.. XD

[Marka]

Here's what they would have done with her image, as to whether or not we would have approved, I let you guys answer...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKwLSWkRsWE&NR=1

It wouldn't bother me...

[Euphoria]

Sorry, but I can't believe that any male fan of Alizee wouldn't want to see her naked.

[lapinschous]

I like how easily Euphoria is reading everyone's mind... :D

[Scruffydog777]

Well there's no doubt in my mind that is the direction Mylene wanted her to go in, but that doesn't mean it had to be that way. As Allzee said, there is a difference between sexy and vulgar and this video I wouldn't say is quite vulgar, but there's no real beauty to it. She just starts shedding her clothes and in my book, that's not really being sexy.

I think there would have been a compromise if these two had stayed working together or if they happened to get back together. There would be sexy, but nothing beyond that.

[melovelily]

It would bother me if zée did such a thing, that looks whor-ish as hell.

That's one of the reasons why i'm glad she isn't with MF anymore.

[Karin]

well... if that would be Alizées direction with MF... Im happy it never happened

[Lili4ever]

Sorry, but I can't believe that any male fan of Alizee wouldn't want to see her naked.

Naked ? Maybe through some leaked pics or through a key hole, but not in her musical work. Although i bet she would be swimming in cash if she did go full naked.

what is MF reputation in France. I get it that she is very famous, but what average french people think about her ?

[lapinschous]

what is MF reputation in France. I get it that she is very famous, but what average french people think about her ?


She's the richest french female singer in history and the fifth richest in europe (more than 220 millions euros according to some sources) , her popularity remains pretty damn high since she's ranked 3rd on the list of the favorite personalities in france in the female singer category just behind Charlotte Gainsbourg and Vanessa Paradis.

Alizée is not even on this list.

[Nino]

Sorry, but I can't believe that any male fan of Alizee wouldn't want to see her naked.
Nope. Never. There are quite a few celebrities who have shed their clothes for magazines and stuff. There's a huge difference between marketing oneself by showing off their body and influencing people by one's personality. Alizée may not have a striking personality. But it is her smile, her manners and that angelic charm about her that has garnered a rather loyal fan base for her. Going in MF's direction would completely destroy what Alizée stands for me right now. I wouldn't be a fan if that were to happen.

[Bigdan]

Naked ? Maybe through some leaked pics or through a key hole, but not in her musical work. Although i bet she would be swimming in cash if she did go full naked.

what is MF reputation in France. I get it that she is very famous, but what average french people think about her ?

If I can answer on another level than just income ranking, Mylène is now considered as quite unique in the french musical landscape. She is famous for her love of provocation, darkness, nudity, and stunning shows on stage.
They also make fun about her. The way she act the tears on stage, or the constant sad mood of her songs ( which is not true anymore).

About : L'amour n'est rien video clip :
You have to see this as a sexy joke, a way for her to say that she does what she want, especially what she's not supposed to do.:D
I think she did it with a lot of class, and I'must say that she get my attention with this one...:p


.

[Euphoria]

Naked ? Maybe through some leaked pics or through a key hole, but not in her musical work.Wow, I can't even describe how creepy and misogynistic that sounds. So it's not "okay" if you saw her nude if it were her choice, but it would be okay with you if it were a total invasion of privacy. :fear:

[Karin]

She's the richest french female singer in history and the fifth richest in europe (more than 220 millions euros according to some sources) , her popularity remains pretty damn high since she's ranked 3rd on the list of the favorite personalities in france in the female singer category just behind Charlotte Gainsbourg and Vanessa Paradis.

Alizée is not even on this list.

this said me nothing about her... and really no answer what asked melovealizee, what people are thinking about her

[Lili4ever]

Wow, I can't even describe how creepy and misogynistic that sounds. So it's not "okay" if you saw her nude if it were her choice, but it would be okay with you if it were a total invasion of privacy. :fear:

Well fuck, that was really creepy :/) .well, it's not what i actually mean. I think i want say to that as for male it would be interesting to see her naked but in some respectable, delicate way ? Like a photo session for PETA ? Or some short movie scene if she would take acting ? That's just a natural curiosity i think. But i sure would be disappointed if she went Paris Hilton or Britney Spears way. She has this french elegance. She had it always, even when her sexuality was the main driving force to sell albums.
I think that most of her fans who followed her just because of her body, dumped her already and haven't bought her cd. They are now following S. Gomez and T. Swift and writing sentimental comments about Alizee on youtube.

[Corsaire]

Sorry, but I can't believe that any male fan of Alizee wouldn't want to see her naked.

Maybe that is true for many (most?) of her male fans, but, I, for one, never thought of Alizée in a sexual manner and I have discussed this at length on AAm forums. I find her very attractive and physically extremely beautiful, but that is it. I see Alizée more as a younger sister (or maybe a daughter). To this day, I still can’t stand to look at the JPVA “show me your ass” move, let alone seeing her naked.

Concerning the past association with LB/MF, as I said before, I am convinced it was doomed if Alizée was not willing to become a darker, rougher more sexualized (graphically speaking) version of herself. That was the obvious natural progression and I really don’t see how LB/MF would have wanted it any other way. Speculative, of course, but still the most probable stuff LB/MF had in store for Alizée.

As a side note, when I see the MF video posted above, it reminds me of the time when I was much, much, younger and the prospect of seeing a sexy singer show some skin in a video was quite exciting. Today, at might age, when I see an artist resort to such childish and immature “eroticism” or “sexuality”, I find it simply disappointing. A little like the proverbial hot bedroom scene in a movie where the hunk sensation shows his ass or the good looking actress shows the shadow of a nipple... I am not 13 anymore and I couldn’t care less about that sort of stuff... There are better alternatives out there for anyone who wants a dose of eroticism.

[lapinschous]

I think that most of her fans who followed her just because of her body, dumped her already and haven't bought her cd. They are now following S. Gomez and T. Swift and writing sentimental comments about Alizee on youtube.

Couldn't agree more and I say Good riddance! :bye: Because this kind of fans is more of a burden than something to be proud of for Lili. :)


this said me nothing about her... and really no answer what asked melovealizee, what people are thinking about her

Are you fucking serious?? I just said that she's one of the most popular singers in France . If you don't know what POPULARITY means then I can't help you.

[Merci Alizée]

Sorry, but I can't believe that any male fan of Alizee wouldn't want to see her naked.

Why is it so hard to believe?

[ALS]

Some women the only way they could be sexy is dress like a slut or take their cloths off for some photo shoot. A few years ago I got in to TCM and was watching a lot of the old black and white movies from the late thirties through the forties. I was floored on how absolutely beautiful and sexy the women of that era were. The one movie that jumps out was Laura with Gene Tierney. My god that woman was so incredibly beautiful and sexy in that movie. Another was the Big Sleep with Humphery Bogart and Lauren Bacall. Lauren again was as hot as they come in that movie. Back then they sure were not dressing mini skirts with their butt cheeks hanging out, Daisy Dukes or tube tops.

Like the first time I saw Alizée in La Isla Bonita she was one of the sexiest women I had ever seen.

[pepelepew]

I can't agree more with Corsaire and Als points and point of view. Besides exploiting ones body by getting naked is the cheapest thrill and form of flattery available. Leaving nothing to the imagination is no fun at all and just a cheap stunt regardless of the motives. Alizee understood this at 15 and refuses to be so classless. She is a beautiful human being and when I was a young man I might have desired to see her naked, but even then I would have lost respect for her. I view her as multi-dimensional and her sensuality is just a part. I also view her as a daughter. Although a father is aware of the beauty of their children, they hopefully don't get sexuallly excited by this and takes up the least of their attention. If the physical aspect is your bag, then there are many other people to ogle over that are just as attractive physically as Alizee and are totally naked.

[lapinschous]

The one movie that jumps out was Laura with Gene Tierney. My god that woman was so incredibly beautiful and sexy in that movie.

She's nothing compared to Louise Brooks or Sophie Marceau
https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/64718_2868823935091_1195296870_n.jpg

[Un-rêve]

Some women the only way they could be sexy is dress like a slut or take their cloths off for some photo shoot. A few years ago I got in to TCM and was watching a lot of the old black and white movies from the late thirties through the forties. I was floored on how absolutely beautiful and sexy the women of that era were.

I've seen a few of those.. many of those women are on this video.

Check around the 1:39 - 1:47 minute mark for Gene Tierney. ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXkblbJqwn0

Sorry, but I can't believe that any male fan of Alizee wouldn't want to see her naked.

Well only my dreams, or in my bed. :D

[ALS]

She's nothing compared to Louise Brooks or Sophie Marceau

I'll raise you one Audrey Hepburn. :p

http://sparklingmagazine.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/audrey-hepburn.jpg

[Un-rêve]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFw8NjZF-Qk

[Scruffydog777]

Just to get a little off track and to talk about Audrey Hepburn. A lot of you know I'm a ww1 and 2 history buff. I recently read that Audrey grew up in war time Belgium. During operation Market Garden ( A bridge too far), the Belgium government in exile called for a general strike by the railroad workers so hopefully the Germans couldn't get supplies to their forces who were fighting against the allies who were trying to capture the bridge at Arnhem. This was in the fall of 1944.

Well the operation failed and in retaliation for the strike, the German army shut off all shipments of food and water and fuel by railroad. A lot of people in Belgium starved that winter. Audrey's family had to grind up tulip bulbs to make flower. Years later, she blamed her eating disorders on what happened during that time. It's interesting reading about that phase of her life. It probably played an important role into her deleloping into the great person she was.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audrey_Hepburn

[Un-rêve]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audrey_Hepburn

Thanks for the link Scruffy, what I find most interesting is that the movie from which she discovered Mel Ferrer by ( who she later married ) was actually a movie called "Lili"...... I dunno but it's like two worlds colliding. :wub:

[Euphoria]

Those women are very beautiful and classy, but I wouldn't call that sexy or provocative. I like all ranges of personalities, but I feel a certain kinship with MF.

[Fall]

Well only my dreams, or in my bed. :D
I'm with Un-rêve on this one!! :D

Ok but seriously, I don't think I would like to see her naked in a simple music video. Maaaaaaaybe in a film, if it were an important and meaningful part of the story. But even then, I think I'd prefer it if she kept her clothes on.
If she were to reveal herself like that, I'd prefer it if was for my eyes only :D:o:p

[Euphoria]

You guys are making my inner feminist twitch. What bothers me is that you guys wouldn't mind seeing her naked on YOUR terms.

[Lili4ever]

wel, tbh those terms are quite modest and well wishing

[pepelepew]

You guys are making my inner feminist twitch. What bothers me is that you guys wouldn't mind seeing her naked on YOUR terms.They get naked on their terms, so how is that any different than anyone elses terms? Besides despite what feminists espouse, men and women are wired different and the sexes will never be able to completely understand the other on any level.

[Fall]

You guys are making my inner feminist twitch. What bothers me is that you guys wouldn't mind seeing her naked on YOUR terms.

Even if you put that way, they are after all, OUR terms yes? Why would we not want it that way?

Also, you're reacting like a kid, going "eww eww eww eww." It's as if you think we're going to declare war on Alizée if she doesn't go along with what we say. At the end of the day she always does what SHE wants, and while we may complain, what difference will it really make? Whatever she does, she may lose a few fans but she'll also gain new ones. Take me for example. A lot of people didn't like Psych so they chips and dipped. Me, I came along long after Psych but a year before UEDS. Psych became my favorite album, and I've stuck around. So if she were to go butt nekkid on a simple music video (such as the one lapinschous posted) I wouldn't be all too pleased, but I wouldn't leave. Even if I left, there are other people who like that sort of thing. Mat said it wouldn't bother him, a few posts ago. In my own post, I said the only way I'd wanna see her like that would be if it were just me and her (not through a keyhole ...Lili4ever :p) But because that kind of thing is highly unlikely, as well as something I'm not actively striving towards, I hope that she only undresses at home, for a shower, for her partner, whatever.

:cool:

Edit -
Another thing I'd like to add, if I had been in line with Scruffy, Jake and Ray, I would probably have been kinda terrified, so it it were just me and Alizée I don't know what I'd do. So maybe, even then I would prefer a nice chat, rather than have a heart attack at 21 xD

[DrSmith]

I hope that she only undresses at home, for a shower, for her partner, whatever

…because if she did decide to go nude for a photoshoot or something, that would make her a worse person? It would decrease her value in some way?

Postin' this link because I agree with pretty much everything this lady has to say : http://jezebel.com/5966651/hey-girls-modesty-is-bullshit

« The problem is the implication that there's a "right" way to be a woman, and that men—anonymous, strange men on the internet, no less—have some say in what that "right" way looks like. And I'm very sorry, "Guys," but my only "womanly duty" is to myself. »

Even if you put that way, they are after all, OUR terms yes? Why would we not want it that way?

Also, you're reacting like a kid, going "eww eww eww eww." It's as if you think we're going to declare war on Alizée if she doesn't go along with what we say. At the end of the day she always does what SHE wants, and while we may complain, what difference will it really make?

A very important difference. You should have no cause to complain when she does what she wants to do. This isn't just about Alizée doing something you don't like, it's about many people who carry this misogynistic and oppressive attitude that is a taint on society. If a woman showing off her body lessens her value in your mind, you need to change. It shouldn't bother you if a woman wants to dress in very revealing clothing or be nude in a movie or a magazine or anywhere else. There's nothing wrong with that. The former president of France and his beautiful wife (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-kN8nuR-81GE/TZEI1XIMryI/AAAAAAAAAkE/8N2Ys8Hz2r8/s1600/Carla_Bruni-Nude-2.jpg) agree with me.*

*Warning : link leads to a photo of an unclothed woman


I'm not saying that this attitude applies 100% to everyone who's commented on the last couple pages, but it probably applies a little bit to almost everyone. (I probably even lost Euphoria at some point—I know she doesn't like nipples.) It's the little remnants of the past—when society was much more oppressive to women, if you can imagine—that are so embedded in everyone's mind that cause you to look down on someone who would dare show off her body and be proud of her sexuality, rather than dressing like the women on Turner Classic Movies… who, by the way, didn't have much choice in how they dressed…


That may have gone a bit off topic, but I wouldn't be doing my job if I didn't hit 'Submit Reply' right now.

[Euphoria]

No, I agree with you DrSmith. That's the exact point I was trying to make. Nipples don't bother me per se, but women in America don't really go braless, so I was curious if it's common in France. I don't think it's wrong, and I don't think I have any right to tell a woman what to do with her body and what she should/shouldn't show.

I dunno, I shouldn't have said anything. My point was that a man who is attracted to a woman would like to see her nude, and has thought about it. It's not wrong, it's nature. I was just poking fun, but the replies bothered me.

[Fall]

Well since you quoted my post specifically I take it that you are really only talking to me. Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think I ever said that it would "make her a worse person, or that it would decrease her value in some way"... in any way shape or form. I just said I'd prefer she keep her clothes on.

I'm a horrible example giver :o but here goes: Say you are a friend of mine from school, and you come to my house on my birthday, wearing a shirt that says "Michael Jackson is gay." (*In the sense where you use the word "gay" offensively, not meaning homosexual. Women he worked with can attest to his preferences :D) Needless to say, I wouldn't like that. I wouldn't make judgements about your value as a person either. I would say that there are perhaps other sitiuations where I'd be (more or less) ok with you wearing that, like if you were a comedian doing an offensive comedy stand up show. I would rather you wear something else, but whatever.

You quoted me again, saying that I need to change if I think a woman's value lessens if she shows off her body. Well that's only true to a point, I can't say that I don't like the way she looks in the JPVA dress. But I think it would be a bit inappropriate if she wore something like that to the funeral she went to recently. All in all, what I'm saying is that there's a time and a place to show off your body. All this started from saying whether or not we'd be ok with her going in the direction of that MF music video. It must work for MF, it does, I'm sure. As for me, nudity in a music video isn't my thing. Lisa Marie Presley was (almost) naked in MJ's You Are Not Alone music video, I don't watch it often. :cool:

[babyblue558]

Here's what they would have done with her image, as to whether or not we would have approved, I let you guys answer...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKwLSWkRsWE&NR=1

I think when combined with the lyrics of the song ('Love is nothing') this video is meant to be ironic, not just meaningless nudity as it may at first appear.

Edit:

Also Mylène and Alizée are two completely different people. I think it is also silly to assume Mylène would've tried to turn Alizée into a carbon copy of herself if they had continued to work together.

[Euphoria]

I think when combined with the lyrics of the song ('Love is nothing') this video is meant to be ironic, not just meaningless nudity as it may at first appear.

Edit:

Also Mylène and Alizée are two completely different people. I think it is also silly to assume Mylène would've tried to turn Alizée into a carbon copy of herself if they had continued to work together.
Agreed also. It's not like Alizee was her slave, either. I'm sure she enjoyed playing a sexy tease at first, but a lot of women grow out of that.

[DrSmith]

Well since you quoted my post specifically I take it that you are really only talking to me. Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think I ever said that it would "make her a worse person, or that it would decrease her value in some way"... in any way shape or form. I just said I'd prefer she keep her clothes on.

You didn't say that, which is why I posed it as a question or a suggestion that maybe that's the way you feel and you don't even realise it. Could be something to think about. If you have a strong preference for "modest" attire in women, there may be some misguided reasoning behind it and a very damaging side-effect, i.e. "slut-shaming."

It's okay if you prefer women who keep themselves covered up, it's the condemnation of the opposite that is a problem.

And I wasn't just talking to you. I was responding to fragments of different posts, and maybe taking it to a place that nobody was even discussing. But I think the unwritten law is "you're allowed to go off-topic as long as you acknowledge you are," right? :p

[Fall]

You didn't say that, which is why I posed it as a question or a suggestion that maybe that's the way you feel and you don't even realise it. Could be something to think about. If you have a strong preference for "modest" attire in women, there may be some misguided force behind it and a very damaging side-effect, i.e. "slut-shaming."

It's okay if you prefer women who keep themselves covered up, it's the condemnation of the opposite that is a problem.
I see what you mean, and yes, it IS something to think about. Hmm, well I wouldn't say it was a strong preference, cause like I said, JPVA dress and also, Tatiana Thumbtzen in MJ's "TWYMMF"* (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzZ_urpj4As) yummeh :o:D But LMP in You Are Not Alone (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAyKJAtDNCw), idk, :dontknow: though she really is attractive.

*You'll see what I mean in the first five seconds :p

I think the unwritten law is "you're allowed to go off-topic as long as you acknowledge you are," right? :p
I suppose it is :D

[pepelepew]

…because if she did decide to go nude for a photoshoot or something, that would make her a worse person? It would decrease her value in some way?

Postin' this link because I agree with pretty much everything this lady has to say : http://jezebel.com/5966651/hey-girls-modesty-is-bullshit

« The problem is the implication that there's a "right" way to be a woman, and that men—anonymous, strange men on the internet, no less—have some say in what that "right" way looks like. And I'm very sorry, "Guys," but my only "womanly duty" is to myself. »



A very important difference. You should have no cause to complain when she does what she wants to do. This isn't just about Alizée doing something you don't like, it's about many people who carry this misogynistic and oppressive attitude that is a taint on society. If a woman showing off her body lessens her value in your mind, you need to change. It shouldn't bother you if a woman wants to dress in very revealing clothing or be nude in a movie or a magazine or anywhere else. There's nothing wrong with that. The former president of France and his beautiful wife (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-kN8nuR-81GE/TZEI1XIMryI/AAAAAAAAAkE/8N2Ys8Hz2r8/s1600/Carla_Bruni-Nude-2.jpg) agree with me.*

*Warning : link leads to a photo of an unclothed woman


I'm not saying that this attitude applies 100% to everyone who's commented on the last couple pages, but it probably applies a little bit to almost everyone. (I probably even lost Euphoria at some point—I know she doesn't like nipples.) It's the little remnants of the past—when society was much more oppressive to women, if you can imagine—that are so embedded in everyone's mind that cause you to look down on someone who would dare show off her body and be proud of her sexuality, rather than dressing like the women on Turner Classic Movies… who, by the way, didn't have much choice in how they dressed…


That may have gone a bit off topic, but I wouldn't be doing my job if I didn't hit 'Submit Reply' right now.It's ironic that in your quest to show how open minded and evolved you are in not making value judgments, you closed your mind to anyone elses opinions that don't fit into your narrative.-(The world according to Dr. Smith)- A value judgement in and of itself and an oppressive one at that.

[lapinschous]

It's not like Alizee was her slave, either. I'm sure she enjoyed playing a sexy tease at first, but a lot of women grow out of that.


Maybe not her slave, but she had an immense authority over Alizée, she was the tutor of her early career , expected her to do whatever she said , closely monitored her performances, interviews, looking out for every little mistake . Lili was under great pressure and her shy personality led her to set aside her critical thinking and do as she was told.

Mylène being a freemason, and knowing the persuasive power of this kind of people, I can perfectly imagine some sort of manipulation that she wanted to escape from , regardless of the cost or the person that would help her doing so. That person turned out to be Jérémy and was the person that would change her forever; made her become more materialistic and superficial on some aspects of her life (while she said she only needed simple things in her early interviews) , made her become more attracted to the "bad boy" side of men (while she said that she just wanted anyone nice with her ) , who made her want to shield herself with tattoos etc.. But deep inside, even with this shell that she built around her , the Alizée of the beginnings remains untouched, just a bit traumatized by the merciless world of fame .

When she started to work with Mylène .
v
http://fond-d-ecran-gratuit.org/photos/alizee.jpg

After the break up
v
http://i48.tinypic.com/zlr8sk.jpg

The relationship with Jérémy
v
http://portfolio.soirmag.lesoir.be/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=18443&g2_serialNumber=2

After the divorce
v
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj226/thecure_04/382609-alizee-devoilera-le-29-mars-.jpg

Commercial failure of UEDS
v
http://media.paperblog.fr/i/283/2836087/collines-nouveau-alizee-ecoute-L-1.jpeg



From the thoughtlessness of the beginnings to maturity, she's been through a lot of hardships and she's changed . But we still love her.

[DrSmith]

It's ironic that in your quest to show how open minded and evolved you are in not making value judgments, you closed your mind to anyone elses opinions that don't fit into your narrative.-(The world according to Dr. Smith)- A value judgement in and of itself and an oppressive one at that.

Nice spin. I disagree with those that would pre-judge others and try to tell them how they should behave and live. And you're mad that I disagree with your right to take away other peoples' rights? :)) You judge me for judging you for judging everyone, now I judge you again. This could go on forever.

I haven't closed my mind to the opinion that some people should be able to tell other people how to live their lives. I've heard it, I've thought about it, and I've rejected it. Which is probably more thought than you've done to reach your conclusion that women ought to live by a code that men set for them.

The definition of closed-minded is "stubbornly unreceptive to new ideas." You know what isn't a new idea? Sexism. It's been around forever, but if I want to challenge that then I'm being closed-minded? Pwaha!

[Corsaire]

Nice spin. I disagree with those that would pre-judge others and try to tell them how they should behave and live. And you're mad that I disagree with your right to take away other peoples' rights? :)) You judge me for judging you for judging everyone, now I judge you again. This could go on forever.

I haven't closed my mind to the opinion that some people should be able to tell other people how to live their lives. I've heard it, I've thought about it, and I've rejected it. Which is probably more thought than you've done to reach your conclusion that women ought to live by a code that men set for them.

The definition of closed-minded is "stubbornly unreceptive to new ideas." You know what isn't a new idea? Sexism. It's been around forever, but if I want to challenge that then I'm being closed-minded? Pwaha!

http://crossfitlove.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/bugs-bunny-whats-up-doc.jpg

Aren't you going a bit overboard here, Docteur?

I believe every single person has the right to reject and dislike whatever they want. No one has demanded that Alizée’s clitoris be excised if she shows her ass. No one has asked that MF be lapidated on the public place or put in prison for her striptease in that video. Docteur, where was it demanded that any woman should be forced to live by any rule set for them? I personally claim the right to dislike and reject anything I want to. And I don’t care for that “but as long as it is what she/he wants to do”, no one should question it. I have a brain and I am capable of judgement based on my values and my preferences and if I want to reject something , that is my prerogative. Alizée can still do what she wants with her body and her life.

I would instantly reject any male singer if he based his act on eating rats, blowing farts into flames or caressing his dick through his leather jeans. Is this because he is a man and I want him to live by my rules? No, it is just because I find this sort of stuff silly and uninteresting. In the case of MF, I don’t value her work because there is nothing of substance she can offer me. She has built a career based on the controversial nature of her work and, well, to me, she has stopped being controversial and innovative a very long time ago. As for her sexy erotic side, I don’t care for it. Too contrived, too obvious, too childish and silly. So, I just reject her act. Not because she is a woman or because I am sexist. Not because she shows some skin, but simply because I find her uninteresting. And on top of this, I claim the right to share my views on this subject, regardless of “what MF wants to do with her life and her body” and regardless of what any of her fans might think. In the case of Alizée, if she starts to show her ass, I will drop her instantly. Not because she is a woman, not because I am sexist, but simply because this is not the reason why I am following her career. I would also seize to be a fan if she started eating rats or setting farts on fire on stage... even if that is “her choice and her body”.

[DrSmith]

Are you going a bit overboard here, Docteur?

I already admitted that I took this discussion to a level that it wasn't at, and that it's not just about Alizée. I can rant, can't I?

Docteur, where was it demanded that any woman should be forced to live by any rule set for them?

Oh, lots of places. I assure you. And are you telling me that someone's preference for "modest" women is not influenced by an ages-old standard set for them?

I believe every single person has the right to reject and dislike whatever they want. No one has demanded that Alizée’s clitoris by excised if she shows her ass. No one has asked that MF be lapidated on the public place or put in prison for her striptease in that video.

No, but it's been implied time and time again. People stating that they would lose all respect for Alizée if she was nude in a video (or because she got tattoos.) Because Alizée represents some kind of "purity" to them, which is a result of patriarchal oppression. That's my point. You don't have to like something, but losing all respect for someone and regarding them as trash is a step too far.

In the case of MF, I don’t value her work because there is nothing of substance she can offer me. She has built a career based on the controversial nature of her work and, well, to me, she has stopped being controversial and innovative a very long time ago. As for her sexy erotic side, I don’t care for it. Too contrived, too obvious, too childish and silly. So, I just reject her act. Not because she is a woman or because I am sexist. Not because she shows some skin, but simply because I find her uninteresting. And on top of this, I claim the right to share my views on this subject, regardless of “what MF wants to do with her life and her body” and regardless of what any of her fans might think. In the case of Alizée, if she starts to show her ass, I will drop her instantly. Not because she is a woman, not because I am sexist, but simply because this is not the reason why I am following her career. I would also seize to be a fan if she started eating rats or setting farts on fire on stage... even if that is “her choice and her body”.

You're not one of the people calling Mylène or Carla Bruni a slut and a whore, so I'm not talking about you.

[Bigdan]

You're not one of the people calling Mylène or Carla Bruni a slut and a whore, so I'm not talking about you.


I don't want to take part of this debate, which I see it as too much serious on such a subject for me. I would just say calling Mylène a slut is bad, specially if you really mean it. She called herself a "harlot" in Libertine. And that was just about teasing and fun. And I like her for that.

[Euphoria]

I hate the term slut. It means something different to everyone. I thought a slut was someone who slept with everyone. Like the whole school, town, their workplace, etc. Posing nude doesn't make you a slut. It's art, it's been done for thousands of years. Models that pose nude for artists are sluts? Some of you guys are stuck in the Dark Ages.

[pepelepew]

Nice spin. I disagree with those that would pre-judge others and try to tell them how they should behave and live. And you're mad that I disagree with your right to take away other peoples' rights? :)) You judge me for judging you for judging everyone, now I judge you again. This could go on forever.

I haven't closed my mind to the opinion that some people should be able to tell other people how to live their lives. I've heard it, I've thought about it, and I've rejected it. Which is probably more thought than you've done to reach your conclusion that women ought to live by a code that men set for them.

The definition of closed-minded is "stubbornly unreceptive to new ideas." You know what isn't a new idea? Sexism. It's been around forever, but if I want to challenge that then I'm being closed-minded? Pwaha!You can call it spin if you want to, but I was merely pointing out the blatant hypocrisy and assumptions that you know other peoples beliefs or motives. You couldn't possibly arrive at your extreme conclusions with any degree of accuracy from what has been discussed thus far.

[DrSmith]

You can call it spin if you want to, but I was merely pointing out the blatant hypocrisy and assumptions that you know other peoples beliefs or motives. You couldn't possibly arrive at your extreme conclusions with any degree of accuracy from what has been discussed thus far.

My conclusions were based on posts from other threads, not just this one. And like I said, they don't apply 100% to everyone. If what I said doesn't describe you at all, then you have no reason to be defensive. I didn't point my finger at anyone.

I'd just like to point out that calling someone a hypocrite is cheap way to try to undermine their stance when you don't want to admit that they're right. You've not said word one about whether you think I'm right or I'm wrong, you've just nit-picked at my words hoping you could catch me in some technicality. It's pointless. I'm like Corsaire and you're like a rat-eater : you're boring me !

[Lili4ever]

i was thinking. Was MF really a blessing for Alizee or fool's gold ? :13: Yes, MF brought her to the top of the world, but at what price ? Alizee is practically a hostage of image created by MF. Let's say she didn't meet MF. She would not have been Lolita, but Alizée Jacotey and her debut album would have been Psychédélices followed by UEDS ? Or maybe other style albums. I am sure there are plenty of competent managers and producers in France, not just MF. MF set her a very high goals. Anything less than 1 million sold albums was doomed to be a flop. And Lolita image was really great. It was so good, people could not forgive Alizee for dumping it. People say she has no talent and with out MF she would be nothing. But didn't she get some tv time and won some talent show ? There are plenty of females who really have no more talent than Alizee, but with the right producers and management they are at the top of charts. What do, you, think ?

[lapinschous]

Let's say she didn't meet MF. She would not have been Lolita, but Alizée Jacotey

Yeah she would have been a nobody, she would have stopped dancing to become a computer engineer with glasses and gained a lot of bodyfat . :D


and her debut album would have been Psychédélices followed by UEDS ? Or maybe other style albums.

No mylène , no singing career, it wouldn't even have crossed her mind to become a singer if her friend didn't accidentally enrolled her in the singing category of graines de star. But okay, let's suppose she released Psych as her first album... it would have been a disaster, no one would have been willing to give the money necessary for the promotion . And since her voice is not that good while singing rock songs , the sales would have been ridiculously low. :(

[DrSmith]

Yeah she would have been a nobody, she would have stopped dancing to become a computer engineer with glasses and gained a lot of bodyfat . :D

No mylène , no singing career, it wouldn't even have crossed her mind to become a singer if her friend didn't accidentally enrolled her in the singing category of graines de star.

I agree. It's quite likely that Alizée would have never began a singing career if Mylène hadn't found her. And if she did, we probably wouldn't know about her outside of France because she wouldn't have been so famous, and she wouldn't have done the JEAM dance that made her known throughout the Internet.

[melovelily]

No mylène , no singing career, it wouldn't even have crossed her mind to become a singer if her friend didn't accidentally enrolled her in the singing category of graines de star.

I don't understand this, i'm sure the show zée was on didn't have a " win and mylene will manage you " price, why wouldn't lili go with another succusesful producer ( if another one found her ) ? Beside i never heard alizée saying that she specifically wanted MF or she wouldn't sing ...

we probably wouldn't know about her outside of France because she wouldn't have been so famous, and she wouldn't have done the JEAM dance that made her known throughout the Internet.

There's always an alternative you know :13: depends on whoever she ends up with :)

[DrSmith]

I don't understand this, i'm sure the show zée was on didn't have a " win and mylene will manage you " price, why wouldn't lili go with another succusesful producer ( if another one found her ) ? Beside i never heard alizée saying that she specifically wanted MF or she wouldn't sing ...

Alizée wanted to perform as a dancer, not a singer. She only sang on Graines de Star because she found out that they only took dancing groups and not solo acts. She probably didn't have big aspirations to be a singer at that time, and if she was approached by some random producer she may well have declined. Mylène is the most famous female singer in France and working with her was an opportunity that would be harder to refuse.

There's always an alternative you know :13: depends on whoever she ends up with :)

There is that possibility that she would have made it big without Mylène's help, I just think it's unlikely. It would've required a lot of luck.

[Un-rêve]

I hate the term slut. It means something different to everyone. I thought a slut was someone who slept with everyone. Like the whole school, town, their workplace, etc. Posing nude doesn't make you a slut. It's art, it's been done for thousands of years. Models that pose nude for artists are sluts? Some of you guys are stuck in the Dark Ages.

Yeah "slut" is a horrible word for a women who sleeps with everyone. Well prostitutes have been satisfying men since the dark ages too and if it wasn't for those wonderful women many guys would never have got laid!

Anyway I think regarding those kind of women as "trash" or "sluts" is a great injustice to them.. I mean if anything they deserve praise for what they do.. it can't be easy for them.

[pepelepew]

My conclusions were based on posts from other threads, not just this one. And like I said, they don't apply 100% to everyone. If what I said doesn't describe you at all, then you have no reason to be defensive. I didn't point my finger at anyone.

I'd just like to point out that calling someone a hypocrite is cheap way to try to undermine their stance when you don't want to admit that they're right. You've not said word one about whether you think I'm right or I'm wrong, you've just nit-picked at my words hoping you could catch me in some technicality. It's pointless. I'm like Corsaire and you're like a rat-eater : you're boring me !My points were directed to you specifically. I have no interest in arguing points of view and I refused to take the bait. I do acknowledge that I agree on one thing and that this conversation has become boring and I will not bore you any further.:fight: