Loneliness

[Marka]

Taken from Wikipedia:

"Loneliness is a complex and usually unpleasant emotional response to isolation or lack of companionship. Loneliness typically includes anxious feelings about a lack of connectedness or communality with other beings, both in the present and extending into the future. As such, loneliness can be felt even when surrounded by other people. The causes of loneliness are varied and include social, mental or emotional factors."

Now, everybody is lonely every once in a while, but based on statistics, chronic loneliness is quite widespread, and not only in western societies. I have recently found two very good pdf's regarding loneliness, and I want to share them with you;

I uploaded them here:
Study of loneliness (http://www2.arnes.si/~mmarko7/javno/ostalo/9780262730419_sch_0001.pdf)
Lethality of loneliness (http://www2.arnes.si/~mmarko7/javno/ostalo/add_l.pdf)

Now, it is common sense that loneliness, if it goes on for prolonged periods of time, is not ok, but many people underestimate it, especially if they are not currently lonely. Loneliness is not something you can cure by just being more social, neither is it something you can sweep under the carpet, as it only gets worse and worse with time, and there is nothing romantic in it. In the end, it can be as dangerous as any mental disease, if one does not succeed in becoming un-lonely, which can be quite a feat in our individualistic societies.

What do you think about loneliness? Have you been in the past, or are you currently lonely, and what were you experiences regarding it? What do you think can be done, so that loneliness would cease to be so widespread - not only among young, but especially among old?

And yes, I confess, I feel lonely. As I said, many un-lonely people have little compassion with people who are lonely, and you will be confronted with irritation more often than with compassion when you tell someone about your loneliness - I don't know, why it is that, though. Seems like loneliness is even more stigmatized and especially feared than mental diseases.

[Un-rêve]

Yeah we all get lonely from time to time.. I've always felt it was part of life and just had to deal with it like many others who are worse off than me. I dunno but we can't let this kind of stuff get the best of us although I'm sure we still do.

Btw have you ever sent a message in a bottle to anyone??? I did once.

Anyway here's a quote that always hit me not that it should change anything for the loneliness of us.



To love is nothing

To be loved is something

To love and be loved is everything!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmuobbSl8v8

[Scruffydog777]

I've often spoke of the deep depression I used to be in until I found out about Alizee and a lot of that was due to loneliness. I used to be so depressed that even when I was going to go on vacation to some place like Cancun, I'd be so depressed, I could hardly get packed in time.

It's kind of funny but you can be surrounded by many people during the day when you're at work; people you get along great with; people you have a lot of laughs with and at night you can be surrounded by family or whatever, but without that one someone special in your life, you might as well be on the moon. It doesn't matter how many people are around you.

I'm from the New England area. When I was married, we had lots of freinds and relatives in this area and we were doing stuff together all the time. Because of my work, we wound up moving to Georgia where I spent 10 years. We had no freinds in common there which I think was the main reason for our break up.

I was incredibly depressed after that, but I figured if I'm going to meet another good woman, I'm going to have to do something myself to make it happen. If I just sit back and cry in my beer, it will only get worse. One thing I did was going to the gym on a regular basis. I didn't want to bulk up, I just wanted to get fit. I wasn't that out of shape, but after a couple of months, I was in great shape. Getting a gym membership is usually pretty inexpensive too; about $30 a month.

Now one other thing I did was I was always a terrible dancer, so I thought I'd like to take some dancing lessons to learn the type of dances you'd do when you go out to a typical night club. Well I don't know if they have places like that which teach those types of dances, but I certainly couldn't find any in Savannah. The main thing I found were places that taught ballroom dancing. Ballroom dancing!!!!!!!!!!!!! You got to be kidding me. I'm a beer drinking, rock throwing, wood chopping kind of guy. Ballroom dancing!!!!!!!

Well I decided to give it a try and walking into that studio that first time was probably the hardest thing I've had to do menatlly in all my life. At first there were dances like th foxtrot, which was totally useless for what I wanted, but then there were others like Swing, and Merengue and Bosa nova and even Waltz which were great to learn and do. Girls love to dance. It was probably one of the best decisions of my life.

Not long after that, I met a girl who also worked at the airport I worked at then. Now I'm not the type who goes around hitting on girls. I'm very reserved, shy and I keep to myself. The girl I met I'm sure was attracted to me because I'm sure I was in great shape then. Like I said, not bulked, just fit. It was an incredible relationship.

I had mentioned some time ago that this girl was born on 8/20. My ex-wife was born on 8/20 and Alizee was born on 8/21 and it might have been 8/20 here, depending upon what time of day or it would have to have been night that she was born. Just a coincidence I wanted to mention.

But again because of my job, I had to relocate, this time back to Boston. This led to the break up with this incredible girl I had met there and started me on many years of depression, mostly due to loneliness, but also because of other events too.

Me and my ex-wife had been in money problems for years, So when I had to relocate, a major airline in Boston was hiring. Well as expensive as Boston is I thought the only way I could move up there is if I worked for a major airline with the big pay they provide. So I took that job. Not long afterwards, 9/11 happened at a time when we were anticipating a big pay hike. Of course after 9/11, the airlines started losing money by the billions, so not only did we not get a big pay hike, but instead we took a big pay cut. So all my plans went out the window with that. I could no longer afford to buy a house up here, plus the airlines started laying off, so I couldn't transfer to a city with a cheaper cost of living like Dallas. So I lost my girl, then lost my life plans, all withing a relatively short period.

So that by itself was incredibly depressing for me. I tried taking dancing lessons up here, but it wasn't the same. I went to the gym again, but didn't keep up with it. I was just in a very unhappy situation. The only thing that kept me going was I enjoy the work I do.

I knew I should have gone out and done something with my life such as joining a church group or a satanic cult or taken up golf or tennis or joining a health club or joining the civil air patrol............anything. There is so much out there. I had even thought about taking martial arts lessons, but some back issues kept me from pulling that trigger.

It's so hard when you're lonely and or depressed to go out there and do something, but that's what you have to do. The more depressed you get, the harder it is get the courage to do something. I did it in Savannah and it changed my life for a while. I didn't really do it in Boston and I wallowed in self pity until a pretty little French girl appeared on my computer screen and rocked my world. Like I said, I used to go on trips to different places in the Carribean and Mexico and I'd be so depressed, so lonely while I was there. Now that Alizee has come along, I get so much enjoyment out of everyplace I go. I'd still would like to meet that someone special, but I know myself, I'm not doing enough to make that happen. Someone isn't going to just fall out of the sky. I and you have to go out and make it happen. There are plenty of wonderful women out there, but you'll never meet them unless you yourself do something to make it happen.

[Un-rêve]

^^

I really enjoyed reading your post Scruffy.. I can see you've been through the ringer and all I have to say is you are a greater person than me. Well what you say is inspiring, but speaking for myself I can only be as good as I can be and I don't think it's so good.

Maybe luck will come again.. but kinda like you say, sometimes we have to make our own luck.

Someone isn't going to just fall out of the sky.

That's for sure although Alizée did! :)

[Scruffydog777]

Another related matter I should've brought up, well actually 2 related matters are one about my ex and the girl I met afterwards. Me and my ex separated on more or less good terms. As I had mentioned, we were in money trouble for years, so there was no house to fight over. She had a hysterectomy at an early age, so there were no kids to fight over. She fell out of love with me for a guy on the other side of the country and it was no consolation that this guy proved to be a dick that she did wind up leaving.

But because I couldn't let that first relationship go or should I say that first major relationship, it affected my relationship with that wonderful girl I met after in a major way. I've mentioned several times in here before how in sports, no matter how far behind my team is, no matter how late in the game, I stick with them til that final whistle and that hurt my new relationship. I should've known enough to cut the cord.

Now this new girl I met, came from a musical family who did very small gigs on the side and she was singing different songs all the time. Now one thing I didn't realize until only a couple of years ago, was that so many songs I loved before, brought back memories I'd be better off forgetting. Take for instance a song by Jewel called You were meant for me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGj77BrEgj4

Well that song came out, right around the time of my divorce. I love Jewel's voice. I have tremendous respect for her as a person. I love many of her songs. Look at this video where she dressed up as an office worker so people in a bar wouldn't know who she was and sang one of her songs and listen to her voice at the 4:00 minute mark..............incredible!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmv1VhrtYRo.

As far as the song You were meant for me, I thought it was a beautiful song. Though it was a woman's point of view, it related so much to what I went through at that time and I listened to it over and over, year after year.

Then only recently I asked myself, Why would I listen to a song like that, that I thought was such a beautiful song, but that brought back so many memories I was better off not bringing back. The same thing was true with many other songs because like I said, the girl I had met, was from a musical family and so many songs I still listen to were songs she had sung at some point and every one of them brought back a memory I was better off not bringing back.

Even a couple of weeks ago, I was in a store that sold mostly fish and game equipment because I was given a gift certificate there. Now though I'm from the north, I had spent over 10 years in the south and I learned to love a lot of country and western music. So in this store, a country and western song came on. I had never heard the song before. I had never heard the singer before, but the tone was one I was very familiar with and I wanted to get out of that store as quickly as possible.

That's one reason especially with Alizee's music, but also the music of Les Enfoires has meant so much to me is there are no memories with this music.

[Ray4AJ]

Interesting that an article would appear on USAToday.com today about loneliness....
I guess someone there also reads this forum. :)

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/02/17/loneliness-seniors-early-death/5534323/

[Marka]

Scruffy, that was... touching. I've read your first post yesterday morning, and the second one today morning. You are right, one ought to do something of his or her own accord. Loneliness can be perceived as the way our brain tells us that we are missing something and that we should take action in order to gain that (connection, friendship, companionship,...). Things don't cure themselves over time.


That's one reason especially with Alizee's music, but also the music of Les Enfoires has meant so much to me is there are no memories with this music.

That was very important - finding something new and fresh, without any connections to the past. You are very lucky to find such a thing!



Btw have you ever sent a message in a bottle to anyone??? I did once.
Nope. When did you do that? :omg: :bow:

Anyway here's a quote that always hit me not that it should change anything for the loneliness of us.

To love is nothing

To be loved is something

To love and be loved is everything!

:thumb: :whine: :sstruck:

Interesting that an article would appear on USAToday.com today about loneliness....
I guess someone there also reads this forum. :)

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/02/17/loneliness-seniors-early-death/5534323/

At least here where I live, children are always looked after and taken care of by the society, but hardly anyone ever wonders what is going on with old people. My grandma has been living by herself for the last twenty years, and hardly anybody ever asked her, how she feels, or how she surives with her misery pension. And she is just one of many.

[Merci Alizée]

I don't know whether I feel lonely or not, but for most of the time I want to be alone. Last year has already seen ups and downs in my life because of this.

I guess this is because for most of my life all my family members have been living in different cities for last 17 years. Moreover I rarely met any of my uncles/aunts and other relatives. I used to be introvert during school days and I rarely had materialistic desires. Even though I make friends very easily, but whenever the conditions have changed I have failed to maintain friendship with others. For ex - if I met someone at hostel and once our hostels changed after a year or so, I almost stop talking to them completely. This happens in all cases for me.

I had to write about this in a thread, but never posted it.

Last year I met 2 girls at work. Let's just name them P and J. P and J knew each other since 2012. They joined my project in 2013. I'm not sure, but ever since moving to Kolkata 2 years back, I don't get impressed by people easily.

P - At first I noticed that almost everyone was trying to hit on P. My team lead tried to give her some leeway in work and ended up being ridiculed by his senior. She constantly ignored them. In fact, more they tried to impress her, more she would avoid such people. All this was bit strange to me as I couldn't understand why they are after her. She changed her seat next to me. Once we started interacting more, I started making fun of her. Even though I appear to be nice on forum, being friend with me not that easy at start. You will have to constantly bear apparently rude comments for making fun of others (or at least straight forward comments without sugar coating). Although it appears that after some time people like such behavior more. After few months, our shifts changed and we started woring from 6 AM. During this period, she would always be with me. We used to go together everywhere. At that time I rarely talked to anyone else in the team. After few weeks, while talking to my some of my older friends, I realized she was quite popular among boys. That was like surprise since, I was probably only one who didn't know about her earlier.

As I started interacting more with her, I found that she was very outspoken and smart girl. I could discuss anything with her - from sports to politics. She used to keen interest and she knew a lot herself. That impressed me a lot as it somewhat rare among girls here.

As the days passed, my team mates starting making fun of us. There was one point where I started wondering whether I'm falling for her. Those days were bit tough for me. I was afraid of any kind of emotional attachment. What I did after that horrible. I somehow ended up in a argument with her about this situation and I stopped talking to her. She didn't like it at all. I avoided her at lunch and after the work. After one month she told us that she is leaving the office for higher studies. On day of her work, I realized I'm going to miss her. We arranged for her farewell. When my team mates asked me to speak, I realized how difficult it was for me to say anything about her. I was shivering. I managed to speak few lines while my head was down and suddenly when I looked at others, I saw that weird look in their eyes. I stopped immidiately.

I didn't talk to her for 4 months. During first month after she was gone, I used to come quietly at work and leave without talking to anyone. I missed her presence very much. Then I realized I was almost used to her. But slowly things returned back to normal.

My friends said that I didn't do right thing by deliberately avoiding her when she was around. Going by history, I thought I'll never meet her again. But 2 months back, she called me and asked if I would like to join her for a music concert in the evening. I was surprised. I enjoyed that day a lot. But one thing didn't feel right to me. While looking at her after long time, I realized that I had never noticed her earlier. I was not sure how that could be. One day when were sitting at a mall, I noticed that I never looked directly into her eyes while talking. I was shocked, because then I realized I never noticed her earlier at all. She is probably first person with whom I allowed to return back in my life.

I guess I'm so used to living alone that I don't want anyone to cross limits and become important in my life. Fear of losing lack of emotional connection almost drives me away from people if I feel that my relationship is going beyond certain limit.

After this came J, who has put me in more difficult situation.

[Scruffydog777]

I think possibly a similar thing may have happened between me and the girl I met after my divorce and between you and P and that is a lot of times you're around someone so much, that you don't realize until they are gone how much they meant to you.

We broke up on freindly terms and there was a time where her dog which was very precious to her, ran away. I flew down to Georgia and spent a couple of days searching for her dog and putting up posters and someone who had found the dog saw one of the posters and she got her dog back. But on one of those nights I was down there, we spent a night sleeping not "together" but on the same bed and that night, looking at her while she was sleeping, it dawned on me how beautiful she was.

Now we haven't heard the J side of the story yet so I don't know how that affects your standing with P, but I'll bet there are things you'd like to be able to say to P, but you have a tough time saying them to her face to face. I think you send her a card of freindship, not anyything remotely resembling a love letter, but one saying how much you enjoyed your time working together. I'd also apologize for the tiff you two had even if it was mainly her fault.

Lastly I think you should say that you hope to keep in touch in the years to come.

I understand why you're afraid to get too close to somene, because it is incredibly painful when you seperate from someone who's been so close to you, but if you don't take the risk, you'll never experience the happiness of a great relationship.

But like I said before, we haven't heard about J yet which could make what I suggested about P to be a moot point. So when will we hear the rest of the story?

[ALS]

Scruffy, A few years ago a friend of mine who's been married and divorced twice stopped by work and asked me is it better to be a miserable bastard and married or single. Easy answer "SINGLE". You just need to find someone as a good friend to hang with and stop looking for that perfect wife type.

Look at it as an Alizée and Pierre (Dancerman one) situation.

I've always said that somewhere around 70% of women are in a marriage for financial reasons. A few months ago there was national a survey and the numbers were 73% of all married women were not in love with their husbands and only with him for his paycheck. This is the main problem older guys run into with women, they're looking for money not love.

You need to look for a woman that is financially secure that isn't looking for a meal ticket in the man. Find a woman that is interested in your companionship not marriage. A friend with benefits situation.

I work with mostly women and the single and divorced ones 35-55 years old, tell the same stories. I met this really great guy over the weekend he's good looking and really nice but not my type. Then a few weeks later I met this guy, he has money, I hope he calls me. :13:

You need to learn to like yourself and quit mopping around because you don't have someone. I've had several married guys tell me over the last five years or so that the only reason they don't walk on their wives is because every woman they meet that is single is worse than what they are married to.

[Marka]

Post deleted*

[Scruffydog777]

I read your last post and I can relate to that too. As far as the bus, I know a lot of times people can sense a lack of confidence or shyness or what ever and tend to stay away from someone like that. That's why I say you should go out there and do something. Find something you enjoy doing. There are other things too that might or might not help you meeting someone else, but will make you feel much better about yourself such as doing volunteer work maybe with fatherless kids or abused animals. Maybe even sponsoring a kid in one of those third world countries. Look at those people who volunteer to help rescue and clean up wild life when there's an oil spill. Well maybe there are no oil spills in your neck of the woods, but I'm sure there are other types of disasters. Is there a red cross chapter in your area? Maybe someone comes up missing in your area and they might need people to help them search.

Things seem pretty unfair sometimes. I've always been shy and kept to myself and lacked self confidence around women. I remember one time I was in Chicago for some avionics training with two other aircraft mechanics from my home town. After class, we were at a bar having a few beers when somehow we had a nice looking young lady join us at our table. Well these two other guys were smooth talkers and were hitting on her and getting all her attention, until I pointed out the fact that they were both married, after which, I enjoyed a nice evening with this woman. But like I said, it's unfair, these guys already had a woman of there own, but yet they wanted to steal some more and they would have had a good evening with someone who was probably looking for a mate, until I pointed out the rest of the story.

It's easy for me to sit here and say for you to do something. It's much, much harder to actually do it. But like I said with the dance studio, that was an incredibly tough thing for me to do, yet I did it.

Take that first step to do something different. Maybe make it an easy step. If you can come in here and post, you can get on the internet and do all kinds of research. I know how tough it is. I've been through it. I'll discuss it some more in following posts if you care to.

[Fall]

One day when were sitting at a mall, I noticed that I never looked directly into her eyes while talking. I was shocked, because then I realized I never noticed her earlier at all.

...

After this came J, who has put me in more difficult situation.

I'm just the opposite, it's really awkward for me to talk someone and not look them in the eye. Maybe if I'm trying to avoid a longer conversation. I'll have to try that out more often. Anyway, it sounds like you two got along well, and if she called you after months like that, she still wants to be your friend. The only advice I can offer is that you shouldn't let a good friend go. Everybody knows they're hard to come by :)

And if you don't mind, tell us more about J?

[Marka]

Take that first step to do something different. Maybe make it an easy step. If you can come in here and post, you can get on the internet and do all kinds of research. I know how tough it is. I've been through it. I'll discuss it some more in following posts if you care to.

Thank you, I will follow your advice. Of course I would like to read more about what you have to say!

[VitaminAlizée333]

Loneliness is awesome if you can handle it, I been lonely for awhile the pain, stopped and I feel great.
" He who is unable to live in society, or who has no need because he is sufficient for himself, must be either a beast or a god.-Aristotle
Which brings to another thing, that humans are a political animal by nature.

[CleverCowboy]

Loneliness is awesome if you can handle it, I been lonely for awhile the pain, stopped and I feel great.
" He who is unable to live in society, or who has no need because he is sufficient for himself, must be either a beast or a god.-Aristotle
Which brings to another thing, that humans are a political animal by nature.

I am comfortable in my own skin and I don't need to be with somebody all the time. I have worked from home since 1997, and pretty much every work day I am alone, and I love it! I have always been a lone wolf personality anyways.

Being social is overrated. Meeting new people is definitely overrated, especially at parties. I just go to them for the food and beer. ;)

[VitaminAlizée333]

I am comfortable in my own skin and I don't need to be with somebody all the time. I have worked from home since 1997, and pretty much every work day I am alone, and I love it! I have always been a lone wolf personality anyways.

Being social is overrated. Meeting new people is definitely overrated, especially at parties. I just go to them for the food and beer. ;)

:snack::snack::snack::snack::beer::beer::beer: :lurk: :beer::beer::snack:

[Scruffydog777]

I'm a lone wolf too. That's just the way things developed since I was young. In my teenage years, we lived in a neighborhood of mostly retired people and only a few kids lived in my area. I knew two other teens my age who both I got along with in a great way, but they hated each other's guts so instead of trying to choose who to go to a movie with or a ball game with, I often went on my own.

The same thing happened when I was in the Army. There were two guys I got along great with but who hated each other, so I used to go off on my own for the same reason.

When I moved to where I am now about 19 years ago, my company hired several guys around the same time and I got along with some of these guys great but my company is open 7 days and we have to bid for what days off we get and the same is true for vacation. So though I got along good with some guys, we'd all have different days off and different weeks of vacation so those relationships never panned out.

So now I've been so used to being a loner, I prefer to be that way. When I go on vacation, if I'm driving, I can play what ever music I want to play (and you know what that is). I can set the temperature at what I want it to be. I can stop on a long road trip when ever I want or I can drive all night long.

Not too long ago, I spoke how I was going through physical rehab. I met two great guys who while I was there, I had some long conversations with and when I was nearing the end, I'm sure these guys wanted to stay in touch, but I really had no desire to, because forming a friendship like that calls for making some sacrifices and it's not that I wasn't willing to, it's just I was happy the way things were.

Now as far as female friends, that's a whole different thread.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTLhGvoI0dE

[CleverCowboy]

So now I've been so used to being a loner, I prefer to be that way. When I go on vacation, if I'm driving, I can play what ever music I want to play (and you know what that is). I can set the temperature at what I want it to be. I can stop on a long road trip when ever I want or I can drive all night long.

Not too long ago, I spoke how I was going through physical rehab. I met two great guys who while I was there, I had some long conversations with and when I was nearing the end, I'm sure these guys wanted to stay in touch, but I really had no desire to, because forming a friendship like that calls for making some sacrifices and it's not that I wasn't willing to, it's just I was happy the way things were.

Now as far as female friends, that's a whole different thread.


Building and maintaining close friendships take a lot of time - time that I do not have. Who has the time these days to maintain more than one or two good friends, if that? That is why I laugh at the people on FaceBook that have like 3000 so-called friends.

I am a natural introvert, so I don't even have the personality to make friends quickly. I do have my moments where I am very social, and normally it is in a situation where there is a gathering of people with a common interest. A good example is this site. I have a lot to say about Alizee and speak freely, and sometimes my posts are pretty long.

I like conversations, but small talk is pretty tough for me. Parties become harder and harder to attend. How are you? What do you do? How about that weather? Did you try the crab toast hors d'oeuvres? They are to die for! :D

I find myself getting along with women very well, probably because they are better conversationalists than men. When I was younger, I was intimidated being in the presence of a beautiful woman. Now, I don't care what they look like or how old they are, I just start chatting. They usually will engage in a conversation, even if they are much younger than I am. There was a thread here where they were discussing what they would say to Alizee if they had a chance to talk with her. Some guys were saying they wouldn't know what to say since they were from a different culture and would have nothing in common with Alizee. Are you kidding me? The differences would make perfect ice-breakers leading to great conversation. I would want to know all about her family and family history, Corsica, the kind of food she likes, etc.

All in all, I find myself avoiding getting too close. Just as you described your conversation with those two guys, when it comes time to parts ways, I don't expect anything more. I'm sure I come across as being stand-offish, but it's really nothing personal.