Understanding the French music scene...

[CleverCowboy]

I am hoping some of our French members will chime in here.

Since Alizee decided to get back into singing and booking dates, first there was Warsaw, then Mexico, then... who knows what is next, if anything. The question that keeps returning to my mind is, why not Paris or any other destination on the mainland? Can she not get 500 people from the entire country of France to meet in one place and pay 50 Euros to see a singing engagement that was the country's darling 15 years ago? I think in the US you would still get many thousands to pay big bucks to see a washed up Britney Spears sing her old songs. It made me think of the music culture of France.

Since delving into Les Enfoires, I knew very little about French entertainers other than Alizee. Now, I am no expert or even close, but I am amazed at the talent the French singers bring and I have went a step further and researched many of my favorites from the shows. One thing that is evident is that many of the popular male singers, such as Pascal Obispo, stay consistent in record sales and popularity, or in his particular case, sell more as he goes on. The women singers, such as Alizee, Jenifer, Lorie, etc. tend to make a big initial impact then trend off pretty sharply... unless your name is Mylene, and if so you are the queen of France. But even Mylene's record sales have dropped over the years, but her concerts are a spectacle to the point where I would pay to see her in concert and I think that is her main draw.

So this brings me back to my original curiosity about the French music scene - what does it take to be a home-grown entertainer and make a lifetime income entertaining in France? Why do the men seem to outlast the women? I'm not trying to be sexist in that question, but in the US there is a lot of parity between the sexes in music - if you put out good music, people will buy it no matter who you are. When international acts play Paris, there is always a fantastic turnout. The home grown artists have a lot to compete against.

So this goes full circle back to Alizee. Since Alizee is no longer a "Parisian", does that work against her? Are people from the protectorate of Corsica looked at differently than those from the mainland? Even with Alizee seemingly reconciling with Mylene, there still does not seem to be any rush in signing Alizee to any engagements in France.

Thoughts?

[Thejudge94]

I am curious about the same questions and hope to hear some insite. It would be great if she started performing on a regular basis. I for one would travel to see her if I knew dates well in advance.

[Edsel Di Meo]

Hello ! i've met plenty of french people since i'm learning french and i remember one of them told me 'Alizée is not that important right now' when i told her that i was learning french due to Alizée's music and after reading this i decided to ask in a french group and a good friend of mine has a valid point in my opinion, i'll leave it here:

https://i.gyazo.com/b7306589ecad6ccc1ee6184103d588ed.png

'Mais tu sais, elles ne sont pas faites pour durer, les chanteuses comme Lorie sont des produits markéting destinés à un public de jeunes ados voire d'enfants, donc par définition, elles n'évoluent pas avec leur public, et dès qu'elles commencent à vieillir, elles ne sont plus faites pour ce rôle...'



I can not translate it because i feel i would forget some important point that is worth to maintain. (the one with the opinion is Siddre brut and specifically his second message the first one he was correcting my french lol and the other person is a french friend of mine that agreed with him)

[Rev]

But you know, they are not made to last, the singers like Lorie are marketing products intended for an audience of young teens or even children, so by definition, they do not evolve with their public, and as soon as they begin to age, they are no longer made for this role ... '

...from Google

A good thought. :)

[CleverCowboy]

But you know, they are not made to last, the singers like Lorie are marketing products intended for an audience of young teens or even children, so by definition, they do not evolve with their public, and as soon as they begin to age, they are no longer made for this role ... '

...from Google

A good thought. :)

It looks like Lorie wrote an autobiography this year and had a book signing last month. She did have two concerts in 2018 and one coming up in March 2019 at the Le Trianon in Paris. It looks to have a capacity of around 1000 people. While her career is not dead, it does seem to be limping along.

It would be great if Alizee wrote an autobiography, but since she doesn't write a lot, hire a ghost writer. I would buy the audio version if she would be the one reading it in English with that great accent of hers! :)

Edit:

I am curious about the same questions and hope to hear some insite. It would be great if she started performing on a regular basis. I for one would travel to see her if I knew dates well in advance.

How far would you travel? Mexico City?

[Mr Coucou]

So this brings me back to my original curiosity about the French music scene - what does it take to be a home-grown entertainer and make a lifetime income entertaining in France?

I think one factor here might be the French language itself.

Compared to English, French is a monotone; for instance, I once heard a French woman describe English as sounding "flowy." My suspicion is that the "flowy" vocal inflection pattern of English is better for creating melodies.

Why do the men seem to outlast the women? I'm not trying to be sexist in that question, but in the US there is a lot of parity between the sexes in music - if you put out good music, people will buy it no matter who you are.

My guess: French isn't as good for writing catchy melodies--- French is better for writing ballads. And the ideal singer for a ballad is a male "crooner."


When international acts play Paris, there is always a fantastic turnout. The home grown artists have a lot to compete against.

These "international acts" are English-language bands, aren't they? That's why there is a fantastic turnout: the tonal structure of the English language is better for writing songs.

[Mr Coucou]

Since Alizee decided to get back into singing and booking dates, first there was Warsaw, then Mexico, then... who knows what is next, if anything. The question that keeps returning to my mind is, why not Paris or any other destination on the mainland? Can she not get 500 people from the entire country of France to meet in one place and pay 50 Euros to see a singing engagement that was the country's darling 15 years ago?

If Alizee were to give larger performances in France, what would people be expecting??? Would they be okay with her singing along with a recording, or would people be expecting a live band??? Etc. It could involve much more commitment on her part.

Warsaw and Mexico City, on the other hand, are low-hassle. Alizee doesn't have to do anything except show up.

Edit:

I think the reason she doesn't do large performances is because she doesn't think its worth it.

[CleverCowboy]

I think the reason she doesn't do large performances is because she doesn't think its worth it.

This is what I keep thinking of, but it's also hard to not wish for more. But what if Alizee throws a party and nobody shows up? Just getting ready to put on a show, if it is not karaoke style, takes a lot of money and work. If she cancels shows, her team still has to be paid. I don't think she has the resources to do that.

I think if she worked with Mylene again, things would be different. Mylene is playing Paris in 2019 for nine or ten shows in two weeks. In a big arena, and probably every show will be sold out. I cannot wrap my head around the draw that Mylene has to pull this off. There is Mylene... then there is everybody else in a very distant second place. If Alizee opened for Mylene, or did a few songs with Mylene, it would make a huge difference in Alizee's career. If Mylene just opened her mouth and told the crowd to go see Alizee in concert, they would probably do it. French pop seems to start and end with Mylene, and she totally monopolizes it.

[Mr Coucou]

. Mylene is playing Paris in 2019 for nine or ten shows in two weeks. In a big arena, and probably every show will be sold out. I cannot wrap my head around the draw that Mylene has to pull this off. There is Mylene... then there is everybody else in a very distant second place. [...] French pop seems to start and end with Mylene, and she totally monopolizes it.

I have an idea.

How good is Alizee's voice compared to Mylene's voice? Could Alizee sing Mylene's songs about as good as Mylene does????

How about if we have Alizee do Mylene's concerts instead of Mylene???

Do you think it would work???

[CleverCowboy]

I have an idea.

How good is Alizee's voice compared to Mylene's voice? Could Alizee sing Mylene's songs about as good as Mylene does????

How about if we have Alizee do Mylene's concerts instead of Mylene???

Do you think it would work???

If you never seen a concert video of Mylene, here's one, and after watching it, I would wonder if you could answer your own question.

It might be a little on the long side, so you can forward to about the 5 minute mark and watch to the end. It's to the point where it's a bit creepy to me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puQJbvnbycE&list=RDpuQJbvnbycE&start_radio=1

[Scruffydog777]

I have an idea.

How good is Alizee's voice compared to Mylene's voice? Could Alizee sing Mylene's songs about as good as Mylene does????

How about if we have Alizee do Mylene's concerts instead of Mylene???

Do you think it would work???

Well I think there's two problems with that. As huge as it was to lose the music of LB and the great songs written by MF, the biggest thing she lost when she left was the management of those two. I think she has had a large hand in the management of all her albums since she left them and I think that's the main reason they've failed.

The other problem is her voice. Linda Ronstadt who had a beautiful voice once said she had to work on her voice all the time. I think Alizee hardly ever does and it showed in her last concert. She needs a voice coach and that falls under management.

If she had a voice coach and a good manager, I don't think she would need to sing anyone else's songs.

Here's an excerpt from one of Linda's interviews;

http://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/lifestyle/1982/11/11/ronstadt-on-to-operathe-pop-singers-new-vision-for-her-voice/230e8374-314d-44e8-89c3-ed12b0b50dff/?utm_term=.cf15e8a84ece

"......Her teacher is Marjorie Rivingston, who has worked with singers as disparate as Beverly Sills and Bette Midler. "She's articulate, with a teacher's gift for using either positive reinforcement or being brutally frank without being destructive. I see all this as a remake of '42nd Street,' where a girl comes to Broadway and desperately needs help, a teacher to show her what to do. I've learned how to do stuff in rock 'n' roll, how to hit notes without making a legit sound but using some tricks. I've learned techniques from within so that I have way more range than before without having to scream as hard. It's just so interesting. Every time I go in there, I learn how to improve a tiny bit."......."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0qm8nq8RcA

[Elise]

While I'm not technically French, the answer to CC's question is that her music was written for young teenagers or kids, and so her fans back then have grown up and grown out of her songs after 20 years apart from for nostalgia purposes. Young people today listen to Angèle, OrelSan and Stromae. Mylène fans are more of a "cult" like thing than mainstream.

I still can't understand why the idea that French can't support catchy melodies is repeated here when it is easily disproved in less than 4 minutes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiKj0Z_Xnjc

French music > English music

[24Shepherd24]

Well I think there's two problems with that. As huge as it was to lose the music of LB and the great songs written by MF, the biggest thing she lost when she left was the management of those two. I think she has had a large hand in the management of all her albums since she left them and I think that's the main reason they've failed.

The other problem is her voice. Linda Ronstadt who had a beautiful voice once said she had to work on her voice all the time. I think Alizee hardly ever does and it showed in her last concert. She needs a voice coach and that falls under management.

If she had a voice coach and a good manager, I don't think she would need to sing anyone else's songs.

Here's an excerpt from one of Linda's interviews;

http://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/lifestyle/1982/11/11/ronstadt-on-to-operathe-pop-singers-new-vision-for-her-voice/230e8374-314d-44e8-89c3-ed12b0b50dff/?utm_term=.cf15e8a84ece

"......Her teacher is Marjorie Rivingston, who has worked with singers as disparate as Beverly Sills and Bette Midler. "She's articulate, with a teacher's gift for using either positive reinforcement or being brutally frank without being destructive. I see all this as a remake of '42nd Street,' where a girl comes to Broadway and desperately needs help, a teacher to show her what to do. I've learned how to do stuff in rock 'n' roll, how to hit notes without making a legit sound but using some tricks. I've learned techniques from within so that I have way more range than before without having to scream as hard. It's just so interesting. Every time I go in there, I learn how to improve a tiny bit."......."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0qm8nq8RcA




I don't think Alize is heavily invested in her career, but that doesn't mean she needs to retire. With some work she could get her voice back on track and select tunes appropriate for her abilities. Alize doesn't have to sing original music written for her or even put out a new album. I doubt she will be a major star again, but she will always be popular. Alize could do fine with old tunes. They wouldn't put her in the top ten, but her fans would cut off an arm to see her do something different, and she will always be able to draw an audience. I'm thinking of a career similar to that of Zaz. Perhaps not the same music, but nightclubs, music videos, and an occasional TV show.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fz9wJUpCCn0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObeDLFcceJ0

[Mr Coucou]

I still can't understand why the idea that French can't support catchy melodies is repeated here when it is easily disproved in less than 4 minutes:

French music > English music


Thanks for the Stomae song. I’m not very impressed by it-- but maybe that’s because its not my genre.

This song is an example of my genre:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJL-lCzEXgI

Duran Duran was a British 80’s band--- they were very successful, and they had a string of hit songs. (One of which is “Hungry Like The Wolf”.)

Is there a French Duran Duran?

If the French language can support catchy melodies just as well as the English language, then a French equivalent of Duran Duran should, in theory, be possible. (Does that make sense?)

So, is there a French Duran Duran?

Please name the band. Please name a French band that you think is _closest_ to Duran Duran.

[Elise]

Stromae's work is genius, his name is literally "maestro" swapped around. Do you know what Papaoutai is about? I recommend reading a translation of songs you think you're not impressed by (so this one, and Alors on danse). There's Alizée, are you impressed by any of her songs? Or is it more her physical beauty? Genuine question.

As you say French is better for ballads, what are your favourite ballads and French male "crooners"? Because for a fact that is not at all a popular genre today.

[Mr Coucou]

Stromae's work is genius, his name is literally "maestro" swapped around. Do you know what Papaoutai is about? I recommend reading a translation of songs you think you're not impressed by (so this one, and Alors on danse). There's Alizée, are you impressed by any of her songs? Or is it more her physical beauty? Genuine question.

As you say French is better for ballads, what are your favourite ballads and French male "crooners"? Because for a fact that is not at all a popular genre today.


Stromae isn’t my genre. Ballads aren’t my genre either.

Boudennat is very good--- I like him, but his music is not the reason that I have watched En Concert over and over again.

You still haven’t answered my question.

I asked you if you could name a French band that was similar to Duran Duran.

How about another example.

Another band that has some great songs is the Moody Blues. Here is their song “The Voice”:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AblopvsYCpY

Please name a French band that you would regards as a French equivalent of the Moody Blues. Name a French band that you think is closest in musical style to the Moody Blues.

That is my challenge to you.

Is there a French Duran Duran? If the answer is yes, name the band.
Is there a French Moody Blues? If the answer is yes, name the band.

[Elise]

I have to express my surprise about Stromae, as he's as popular in America as he is in France. And after all you were asking about catchy melodies.

Boutonnat wrote very different music for Mylène Farmer than for Alizée...but I never mentioned him anyway, I asked about Alizée.

I didn't know we were using this as the criterion now, it got confusing. I'm happy to answer your question though I may need help from your side as to what Hungry Like the Wolf lyrics are about. French songs are often meaningful. What is the genre of that song called, or the band's work in general? So that I think on the right lines (there are way too many genres of French music to think through otherwise). Is it rock or something more specific?

I have a question of my own: are you impressed by Alizée's songs and are they your genre?

[Mr Coucou]

I have to express my surprise about Stromae, as he's as popular in America as he is in France. And after all you were asking about catchy melodies.

Boutonnat wrote very different music for Mylène Farmer than for Alizée...but I never mentioned him anyway, I asked about Alizée.

I didn't know we were using this as the criterion now, it got confusing. I'm happy to answer your question though I may need help from your side as to what Hungry Like the Wolf lyrics are about. French songs are often meaningful. What is the genre of that song called, or the band's work in general? So that I think on the right lines (there are way too many genres of French music to think through otherwise). Is it rock or something more specific?

I have a question of my own: are you impressed by Alizée's songs and are they your genre?

I’m American, and I’ve never heard of Stromae. I find it hard to believe that any non-English language artist would enjoy any kind of popularity in the United States.

As far as Duran Duran goes, just listen to them.

I’m not sure about their genre; maybe “medium rock” (something inbetween “soft rock” and “hard rock”.??)

I’ve never paid attention to the lyrics of “hungry like the wolf”--- but now that I look at the lyrics, it is technically--- like 95% of all songs--- a love song. Literally, it seems to be about a man stalking a woman. (But I think its more about a man being obsessed with a woman, rather than stalking her in a physical sense.)

So, is there a French equivalent to Duran Duran in terms of musical style?

Name a French band that you think is closest in musical style to Duran Duran.

I also mentioned the Moody Blues.
Name a French band that you think is closest in musical style to the Moody Blues.

P.S. I don’t see any real difference musically between Bodennat’s Mylene songs and Boudennat’s Alizee songs. (For instance, Moi Lolita was originally intended to be a Mylene song.)

[Alex Rien]

So, is there a French equivalent to Duran Duran in terms of musical style?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwrLOMn6srA&ab_channel=G%C3%A9n%C3%A9rationClubDo