Separate forum category?

[Seapaddler]

How many have taken an interest in the French language since discovering Alizée?

People like her are powerfully influential and embassadorial for any culture or language.

Should we have a dedicated French learning forum category apart from translating vids and songs or would it be too far off topic?

I had a couple French speaking friends about 10 years ago, since then they have moved back to France and Lebanon. My pronunciation of French sounds is actually fairly good having listened to friends speak it. Aside from speaking it, which I don't have any opportunities now, I have no reading comprehension. I think that could be the focus here, so fans could eventually be able to read French sites, news and conversations in French regarding Alizée.

[Luc]

Sure I'm interested in learning French language. For that reason I also joined the French forum Alizée Alliance a few months ago. Reading about Alizée is a very nice way to learn French :)
But to learn the language correctly we will be strongly dependent on a small group of members who speak the language. So I think it depends on them (aFrenchie, garçoncanadien, ...... ) if they are willing to teach us.

[Seapaddler]

So true, however I'm motivated to write some basic understanding text and reference stickies to start a separate category if Brad is willing. If it doesn't become useful it can always be merged with this forum at a later date.

I take it that object and embed tags work in posts, for a tiny flash audio player?

[garçoncanadien]

hi, if you ask us about French, we will be glad to help you. I haven't seen any questions yet so that's why I haven't answered any yet :) other than translations :D

[HibyPrime]

Sure I'm interested in learning French language. For that reason I also joined the French forum Alizée Alliance a few months ago. Reading about Alizée is a very nice way to learn French :)
But to learn the language correctly we will be strongly dependent on a small group of members who speak the language. So I think it depends on them (aFrenchie, garçoncanadien, ...... ) if they are willing to teach us.

That's not true...

If one person has a question, and nobody can answer it, then obviously someone will look for the answer elsewhere. Not to mention people will be asking questions that others may not have thought of..

Besides, you know the saying, 2 heads are always better than one...

[lobowolf14]

I'm up for it. There's a few languages I'd want to try to learn before I get too ald to do so (if not too late already). It's just hard to find somewhere to learn them without going to a major college. I was also thinking that if we could get the grammar down, maybe eventually try to interact with Skype or something.

[neoteny]

i've ALWAYS been interested learning ze french language. only problem is my lack of motivation to get started. it ended in freshman year. damn that french teacher. ooo i hated her. "bonjour class, ca va?!" eh...com si com ca.

[atra201]

well i made a learn french thread but i'm also learning so what ever i have learnt i have post and that's it french ppl were supposed to add to it but ...

[atra201]

i've ALWAYS been interested learning ze french language. only problem is my lack of motivation to get started. it ended in freshman year. damn that french teacher. ooo i hated her. "bonjour class, ca va?!" eh...com si com ca.

what's com si com ca?

it sounds funny. lol

[garçoncanadien]

Alright I volunteer to start teaching. I will use my old textbook as a framework and also try to give you as much practice as possible, verbal, written, and listening (via that engine aFrenchie told us about). Speaking - well that is hard to teach on a forum. I don't know right at this moment how to help you all with that!

And of course, I will intersperse it with vocabulary so you all can build that as well.

PART 1: VERBS

Section 1: Personal Pronouns (les pronoms personnels)

French pronouns work very much the same way as in English, except for the word you and they. In English, you (plural) and you (singular) are exactly the same word. In French, they are not and in addition there is a formal "you" when you need to be respectful. Here goes:

Je = I
Tu = You (singular, informal, friendly)
Il = He
Elle = She
Nous = We
Vous = You (plural, or singular formal)
Ils = They
Elles = They

When you need to be respectful to somebody, you would call them "vous" instead of "tu". On the contrary, if he/she is your good friend "vous" would sound stiff or even mean - you would refer to your friends by "tu".

The other distinction between "tu" and "vous" is number. "Tu" is singular, but "vous" is plural. They both translate as "you" in English.

Ils and Elles represent another distinction that is not present in English. "They" in French is distinguished by gender. If it is a group of females only, "Elles" is the correct word to use for "They". If it is all males, or the group is mostly females and contains at least one male, "Ils" is the word to use for "They".

Now for your homework :):

Send me a private message with your answer to the following questions and don't look at my post while you do them :D:

1. Name all of the French "pronoms personnels".
2. Tell the difference between Ils and Elles.
3. If you are talking to the president, would you say "vous" or "tu".
4. If you are talking to your little brother, would you say "vous" or "tu".
5. If you are talking to your pet dog Topaze, would you say "vous" or "tu".
6. How would you say in French "you" singular, and how would you say "you" plural in French.
7. If you are talking to your friend, but she is in mourning, would you say "vous" or "tu".
8. Tell which of the following is not a correct match:
(A) Je = I
(B) Tu = She
(C) Il = He
(D) Nous = We
9. Tell which of the following is not a correct match:
(A) Ils = They
(B) Elles = They
(C) Il = She
(D) Je = I
10. Tell which of the following is not a correct match:
(A) Elles = They
(B) Il = He
(C) She = Elle
(D) Vous = you (singular)

Will check back later!

-garçoncanadien

[neoteny]

oi...to study or not to study...to beer

[neoteny]

je vous en prie

[neoteny]

what's com si com ca?

it sounds funny. lol

i think it means...ummm..."so-so"

beer....? no? more for me...

[HibyPrime]

10. Tell which of the following is not a correct match:
(A) Elles = They
(B) Il = He
(C) She = Elle
(D) Vous = you (singular)

I think you need to read that question over again

Thank you so much for the lessons!

Question:

Personal Pronouns (les pronoms personnels)

Is it necessary to always put the definite article before "pronoms personnels," or is it the choice of the person writing it? I've seen similar things translated but they are never consistent on wether or not the "the" word is there..

[rwd716]

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[HibyPrime]

Unless I'm looking at something crazy, I think you need to look at it again. :p

I'm not seeing the what's wrong :/

Someone is going to have to tell me what it is, cause I really don't see it...

I would PM garçoncanadien the answers, but I'm sure he has enough to read over from other people..

[atra201]

Alright I volunteer to start teaching. I

9. Tell which of the following is not a correct match:
(A) Ils = They
(B) Elles = They
(C) Il = She
(D) Je = I
10. Tell which of the following is not a correct match:
(A) Elles = They
(B) Il = He
(C) She = Elle
(D) Vous = you (singular)


-garçoncanadien

i think 9. C is not a correct match
and i suspect something lse not gonna say till i'm very sure of it

btw in Alizee in japan vid what did that woman in the background say to Alizee in the end that made her laugh.

what is very good?

[lobowolf14]

Pm!!.. Pm!!!
Lol

[lobowolf14]

Or at least raise your hand to answer the question.. :D

[Seapaddler]

To pull this off I think we'd need a separate forum section to organize it and have reference sticky topics like this.

Basic Rules:

Accented Characters

1. The cedilla (¸) is placed under the letter Ç to show that it is pronounced like the letter s and not the letter k.
François


2. There are three accents used over French vowels.

a. The acute accent (´) is placed over the letter e. This indicates it is pronounced like “ay” like say or day.
André


b. The grave accent (`) can be placed over a, e, u:
Père


c. The circumflex accent (ˆ) can be placed over a, e, i, o, u:
Jérôme



These accents usually indicate the pronunciation of the vowel but in some cases they distinguish the word itself:
<table width="200" border=0><tr align="center"><td>ou = or</td><td>où = Where</td></tr>
<tr align="center"><td>la = the</td>
<td>là = There</td></tr></table>

to be continued.......

[neoteny]

jesus...............

[maareek]

btw in Alizee in japan vid what did that woman in the background say to Alizee in the end that made her laugh.

Pretty sure she asked "What are your impressions?" or something to that effect.

In question 10, I don't see the one that doesn't belong, either. Two of them are situational, but right nonetheless. o_O?

[aFrenchie]

garçoncanadien, there's nothing wrong in question 10 indeed :confused:. Or was it a trap? :D

what's com si com ca?

it sounds funny. loli think it means...ummm..."so-so"
Yes, although it's "comme ci comme ça" ;)
(literally "like this like that")

btw in Alizee in japan vid what did that woman in the background say to Alizee in the end that made her laugh.Pretty sure she asked "What are your impressions?" or something to that effect
http://www.moi-alizee.us/forums/showthread.php?p=1983#post1983

[RMJ]

garçoncanadien, there's nothing wrong in question 10 indeed :confused:. Or was it a trap? :D

Yea, it's just silly... Because vous mean both, singular and plural "you". Tho, the singular is then the formal way to say it (against the informal "tu"). So yea, there's nothing wrong in 10. It was trick or the D option was not planned very well.

[garçoncanadien]

ahhh sorrrrry I will type more slowly :o in 10 all options are right!!

[nurvonic]

hey im up for it. ive already learned a thing or 2 from garconcanadien and aFrenchie:)

[lobowolf14]

yea, broadening my French music beyond Alizee, I'm going to have to learn some French or I'm going to have all of these phrases in my head that I don't understand.

[Twitch]

It seems we have these French lessons every couple of months when new members join and express interest, but then they go away for a while. I wonder if it would be more efficient like has been suggested to create a section and not post similar things every few months. But although I will help where I can (you can PM questions or for translation help, but remember French is my second language) I don't know if I can teach French to someone who doesn't yet have the basics(I started learning it in the first grade, and how many of you remember how you where taught stuff in elementary school).

[garçoncanadien]

I agree! Let us have a section for French lessons. That way, it can be more efficient like Twitch said and then everybody interested can visit that area. I am willing to teach French from Square 1 :)

[lobowolf14]

Yea, and maybe without so many user comments in between lessons. Maybe make a second thread to quote and comment on lessons.

[brad]

how would you say "Learn French" in French? .. lol

[HibyPrime]

how would you say "Learn French" in French? .. lol

apprendre français?

I think that actually means "to learn french," I just have no idea how to conjugate it since there is no personal pronoun..

[aFrenchie]

apprendre français?
"Apprendre le français". (French uses articles much more than English)
And Brad has to specify which tense. If it's infinitive, then the above. If it's imperative, then "Apprends le français".

[HibyPrime]

"Apprendre le français". (French uses articles much more than English)
And Brad has to specify which tense. If it's infinitive, then the above. If it's imperative, then "Apprends le français".

damn that little article, it will elude me for all eternity

[lobowolf14]

Sorry if this is a really retarded question, but it's the one thing I never picked up from Spanish class and none of my other classes went over it, even my native english classes, but I have no idea when to use imperative, infinitive, and the likes or what they even represent.
So if you could please explain. Thanks.

[garçoncanadien]

NO questions are retarded :) Never be ashamed to ask.

I would like to go over that with you all in a future lesson, but since you ask you shall receive :)

Imperatif = you are commanding somebody to do something
Infinitif = you can only have 1 conjugated verb in 1 sentence (in most French). All other verbs must be infinitive, except when you are using a compound conjugation (past tense, for example)
Passé Composé = past tense
Imparfait = something that happened in the past over a long time, and could be still happening now (or just 1st criteria)
Conditionnel = "would" + verb
Futur simple = stuff in the future
Futur antérieur = will have _____
Conditionnel passé = would have ______
Subjonctif = to say something is wished, possible, or doubtful.

These are the most important tenses for beginners. Other tenses are used in formal or literary work.

[lobowolf14]

thanks! :)

[aFrenchie]

I have no idea when to use imperative, infinitive, and the likes or what they even represent.
So if you could please explain. Thanks.
I imagine how strange that can be for you indeed, since English conjugation is sooo very easy compared to other languages. You don't have to wonder about all those tenses just because most of the time they always conjugate the same way. In French (and most languages), you'll find lots of different changes. See here for a (almost!) complete example:
http://moi-alizee.us/forums/showthread.php?p=12704#12704

What garçoncanadien said about infinitive and imperative.

I would like to go over that with you all in a future lesson, but since you ask you shall receive :)
garçoncanadien, you forgot a tense that is very important, in written mode at least. It's Passé Simple, that is past but only for something happening in a very short time. For example, "I took immediately that thing", as opposed to Imparfait (your definition was good), sort of: "I used to take that thing everyday"...

[garçoncanadien]

are you sure you want to ask beginners in French to learn Passé Simple? That is already a big list, and Passé Simple is like you said important mostly in formal writing.

[aFrenchie]

are you sure you want to ask beginners in French to learn Passé Simple? That is already a big list, and Passé Simple is like you said important mostly in formal writing.
Ok, talk about it later. Its conjugation by itself is quite difficult already ;)

[Sir Wood]

PART 1: VERBS

Section 1: Personal Pronouns (les pronoms personnels)

French pronouns work very much the same way as in English, except for the word you and they. In English, you (plural) and you (singular) are exactly the same word. In French, they are not and in addition there is a formal "you" when you need to be respectful. Here goes:

Je = I
Tu = You (singular, informal, friendly)
Il = He
Elle = She
Nous = We
Vous = You (plural, or singular formal)
Ils = They
Elles = They

When you need to be respectful to somebody, you would call them "vous" instead of "tu". On the contrary, if he/she is your good friend "vous" would sound stiff or even mean - you would refer to your friends by "tu".

The other distinction between "tu" and "vous" is number. "Tu" is singular, but "vous" is plural. They both translate as "you" in English.

Ils and Elles represent another distinction that is not present in English. "They" in French is distinguished by gender. If it is a group of females only, "Elles" is the correct word to use for "They". If it is all males, or the group is mostly females and contains at least one male, "Ils" is the word to use for "They".

Now for your homework :):

Send me a private message with your answer to the following questions and don't look at my post while you do them :D:

1. Name all of the French "pronoms personnels".
2. Tell the difference between Ils and Elles.
3. If you are talking to the president, would you say "vous" or "tu".
4. If you are talking to your little brother, would you say "vous" or "tu".
5. If you are talking to your pet dog Topaze, would you say "vous" or "tu".
6. How would you say in French "you" singular, and how would you say "you" plural in French.
7. If you are talking to your friend, but she is in mourning, would you say "vous" or "tu".
8. Tell which of the following is not a correct match:
(A) Je = I
(B) Tu = She
(C) Il = He
(D) Nous = We
9. Tell which of the following is not a correct match:
(A) Ils = They
(B) Elles = They
(C) Il = She
(D) Je = I
10. Tell which of the following is not a correct match:
(A) Elles = They
(B) Il = He
(C) She = Elle
(D) Vous = you (singular)

Will check back later!

-garçoncanadien
It's one thing to attempt to read and pronounce the words, it's another to actually hear and get the correct pronunciation.

Here's a good site for the audio: http://www.research.att.com/~ttsweb/tts/demo.php#top

You can thank Brad for the above link he provided in another post. :)

[garçoncanadien]

yes sir behold! a zip file with the pronounciations. Ils and Elles are pronouced the same way as Il and Elle respectively, except in cases of elision. Merci pour le lien aFrenchie!

[garçoncanadien]

This indicates it is pronounced like “ay” like say or day.

LIKE is very important. They are not exactly the same pronounciation.

[Seapaddler]

LIKE is very important. They are not exactly the same pronounciation.

No not exactly the same, but the best match when explaining without hearing it on a regular basis. Each sound is pronounced clearly and crisply, French sounds are not slurred the way they often are in English. "ay" but not drawled.

[aditya8617]

thanks for the French lessons, needed them badly.

[atra201]

I agree! Let us have a section for French lessons. That way, it can be more efficient like Twitch said and then everybody interested can visit that area. I am willing to teach French from Square 1 :)

use Learn French thread plz.

[aFrenchie]

You can thank aFrenchie for the above link he provided in another post. :)
Merci pour le lien aFrenchie!
That's Brad who provided the link here: http://moi-alizee.us/forums/showthread.php?t=366
I provided another one in the same link but it was a bit more limited, in characters length to use, languages, etc. I noticed they both used the same engine though.

[garçoncanadien]

would anybody like to continue?

[Twitch]

Comme je disais, tout le monde disent qu'ils veulent apprendre le français, mais des fois ça semble que personne veut vraiment faire le travail pour le faire. Ou ils demande pas pour des nouvelles leçons pour être poli. Mois personnellement soit intéressé, parce que j'ai oublié beaucoup de ma grammaire française (sans programme de traitement du texte je suis presque complètement perdue), et ça fait pour du bon travail de faire de la revue.

Hopefully by now some of those who were paying attention should at least understand some of that.

[Seapaddler]

Moi, ma and mon are a bit confusing.

How do you say "It's mine" As in it belongs to me.

[garçoncanadien]

Those choices are all incorrect

It's mine is either

C'est la mienne

or

C'est le mien

depending on gender of the noun you are referring to

[Twitch]

Moi = me
ma = my, when the following noun is feminin
mon = my, when the following noun is masculin

It's mine might be Ça appartient a moi (It belongs to me) but there are probably less formal and better ways of saying It's mine.

EDIT: What he said ^^ :)

[garçoncanadien]

a note about son and sa. You might find in the dictionary that son = his and sa = hers. However, the word you pick depends on the gender of the thing that it is referring to, not the person. Let me say that again : the word you pick depends on the gender of the thing that it is referring to, not the person.

C'est son pomme = faux

C'est sa pomme = vrai

even though you might be referring to a male. You would still say It's her apple in French.

[HibyPrime]

Comme je disais, tout le monde disent qu'ils veulent apprendre le français, mais des fois ça semble que personne veut vraiment faire le travail pour le faire. Ou ils demande pas pour des nouvelles leçons pour être poli. Mois personnellement soit intéressé, parce que j'ai oublié beaucoup de ma grammaire française (sans programme de traitement du texte je suis presque complètement perdue), et ça fait pour du bon travail de faire de la revue.

Hopefully by now some of those who were paying attention should at least understand some of that.

I did understand some of that, but I wouldn't have figured it out without the help of a dictionary..

I don't mind if there are lessons posted here or not, because there are literally hundreds over on other sites.. It's not a big deal where I learn from..

Besides, most of my learning (other than grammar), comes from listening to french music and translating the lyrics to figure out what it means (transcribed lyrics - I haven't gotted quite far enough to beable to pick out all or even most words when it's spoken/written).. I don't know anyone that speaks french so working on conversational skills is a bit impossible

french.about.com est une très bonne ressource..

^ right?

[Seapaddler]

a note about son and sa. You might find in the dictionary that son = his and sa = hers. However, the word you pick depends on the gender of the thing that it is referring to, not the person. Let me say that again : the word you pick depends on the gender of the thing that it is referring to, not the person.

C'est son pomme = faux

C'est sa pomme = vrai

even though you might be referring to a male. You would still say It's her apple in French.

That's helpful.

[garçoncanadien]

french.about.com est une très bonne ressource..

ça c'est tout à fait juste HibyPrime :D

[SupaKrupa]

Twitch's post: Translated to something along the lines of people saying they want to learn but aren't taking initiative? (I hope so anyways, otherwise I'd look like a complete ass!)

I think it's simply because of the attitude "It's too difficult, I don't want to anymore." Personally, I've studied french a while ago and I loved it but haven't touched it since (4 years now - was compulsory to study language for a year) and would love to restart from the very basics. However, I do admit that I get discouraged at times as well, especially after seeing all these things about conjugate verbs, tenses, gender and accents.


french.about.com est une très bonne ressource..


Hehe, I understand that!

Edit: Btw, since this is under translations, Alizée's interview with Fun TV part 2 at about 19:50 the subtitles say 2000 Euro, but to me, it sounds awfully like "douze mille". Can someone verify what it is please? Cause "Douze mille" euro is a **** load of money.

[Seapaddler]

A couple of important points that I learned along the way.

All the contractions in French can look like secret code. For English, words are contracted simply for convenience and quicker flow of speech. But in French contractions are not the same. "C'est" means ce est. But ce est is never written in French. Two words together ending and starting with vowels "ce est" will always be contracted. In English "the orange" is written this way but when spoken it actually sounds more like "Thee orange" and not "thuh orange". "Thuh Orange" doesn't roll off of the tongue very well. Written English doesn't indicate the altered speech but French does. In French one doesn't say la orange. It's l'orange. The "ah" syllable of La is removed.

The other point is consonants at the end of words are rarely pronounced except when in front of a word that starts with a vowel. It's cumbersome to speak two words that end and begin with vowels or vowel sounds so to compensate for it the first word's last consonant is pronounced when it otherwise would not be. "I am here" in French is Je suis ici. Suis is pronounced "swee". It ends with a vowel sound so when the following word also has a vowel like "eesee" the S in suis is pronounced. The phonetic would then be Je sweez eesee in lieu of Je swee eesee.

[Seapaddler]

I think it's simply because of the attitude "It's too difficult, I don't want to anymore." Personally, I've studied french a while ago and I loved it but haven't touched it since (4 years now - was compulsory to study language for a year) and would love to restart from the very basics. However, I do admit that I get discouraged at times as well, especially after seeing all these things about conjugate verbs, tenses, gender and accents.

It would be best to have a dedicated forum category for learning french so we could have reference stickies and links and such but it may be beyond the scope of a fan website. After all for here the most recent post subjects appear on the home page, filling it up on a regular basis with topics on learning the language sort of takes away from what the site is about.

[SupaKrupa]

A couple of important points that I learned along the way.

All the contractions in French can look like secret code. For English, words are contracted simply for convenience and quicker flow of speech. But in French contractions are not the same. "C'est" means ce est. But ce est is never written in French. Two words together ending and starting with vowels "ce est" will always be contracted. In English "the orange" is written this way but when spoken it actually sounds more like "Thee orange" and not "thuh orange". "Thuh Orange" doesn't roll off of the tongue very well. Written English doesn't indicate the altered speech but French does. In French one doesn't say la orange. It's l'orange. The "ah" syllable of La is removed.

The other point is consonants at the end of words are rarely pronounced except when in front of a word that starts with a vowel. It's cumbersome to speak two words that end and begin with vowels or vowel sounds so to compensate for it the first word's last consonant is pronounced when it otherwise would not be. "I am here" in French is Je suis ici. Suis is pronounced "swee". It ends with a vowel sound so when the following word also has a vowel like "eesee" the S in suis is pronounced. The phonetic would then be Je sweez eesee in lieu of Je swee eesee.

Sweet! Learnt something! Thanks for that.

[garçoncanadien]

you are partially right SupaKrupa :D he said douze mille francs - I guess the translator exchanged it into euros.

All the contractions in French can look like secret code. For English, words are contracted simply for convenience and quicker flow of speech. But in French contractions are not the same. "C'est" means ce est. But ce est is never written in French. Two words together ending and starting with vowels "ce est" will always be contracted. In English "the orange" is written this way but when spoken it actually sounds more like "Thee orange" and not "thuh orange". "Thuh Orange" doesn't roll off of the tongue very well. Written English doesn't indicate the altered speech but French does. In French one doesn't say la orange. It's l'orange. The "ah" syllable of La is removed.

Alright, the élision occurs for these reasons:

When you would have a hard vowel-vowel break, you make an élision
When le/la comes before a word that starts with a vowel, le/la becomes l'
de + le = du, de + les = des, à + le = au, à + les = aux

The other point is consonants at the end of words are rarely pronounced except when in front of a word that starts with a vowel. It's cumbersome to speak two words that end and begin with vowels or vowel sounds so to compensate for it the first word's last consonant is pronounced when it otherwise would not be. "I am here" in French is Je suis ici. Suis is pronounced "swee". It ends with a vowel sound so when the following word also has a vowel like "eesee" the S in suis is pronounced. The phonetic would then be Je sweez eesee in lieu of Je swee eesee.

7 rules for you:

1. Most of the time don't pronounce the final e; pronounce instead the final letter before it. Singers may do it for musical reasons, don't do it in normal speech.
2. The -es ending on certain verbs and nouns is not pronounced.
3. The -ent verb ending is silent; however in nouns, adjectives, adverbs, it is pronounced like the word en.
4. You must learn the difference in pronounciation between es, è, é, er, and ê.
5. Most final consonants are not said except for C,R,F,L.
6. Words are usually link pronounced to the next vowel sound (there is a liaison), unless it is et. For example, aux amis is pronounced auzami. Aux hiboux is pronounced auzhibou.
7. Beginning H is never said.

[aFrenchie]

It's mine might be Ça appartient a moi (It belongs to me) but there are probably less formal and better ways of saying It's mine.
The correct phrase is "ça m'appartient". Even less formal: "c'est à moi"
Aux hiboux is pronounced auzhibou.wrong. the "h" in hibou isn't mute, so no "z" for the liaison
7. Beginning H is never said.
right and wrong. Some of them (see above) are considered not mute, although they are! You actually have to take in account that it's there but it's still not pronounced. Quite hard to explain... :D
For example you don't say "l'hache" but "la hache", although you only pronounced "la ache" (no "aspiration" for any "h" in French)

[SupaKrupa]

So difficult... lol

[garçoncanadien]

merci de l'information aFrenchie! and sorry for my mistakes.

[SupaKrupa]

Hmm... I know that "merci de l'information" means "Thank you for the information but does "de" mean "for"? When i stick it into some translator it says it means "of". Why's that? (Hope the answer isn't a bad translator lol)

[garçoncanadien]

sorry, I no longer know the reason why :( If I had to invent the reason probably I would say it's an idiomatic expression you have to remember. I was told to say that in primary school.

[HibyPrime]

"thanks of the information" makes some sence in english, it just is not gramatically correct..

it might have been truncated over the years from "J'ai merci de l'information" - "I have thanks of the information" which, atleast in english, sounds like the kind of thing shakespeare would say..

[Twitch]

I would have said in my bad French 'Merci pour l'information', but that is probably not how a native French speaker would have said it (pour = for). That why I like these lessons, helps me learn the most natural way of saying things in French. And in turn understand them when they are said to me.

[CFHollister]

This problem with prepositions like in this situation (for/of, etc) arise in languages that lack an effective and comprehensive case-marking system such as Latin has (why the French dropped it we may never know). As a result many oblique case roles (and some non-oblique ones) have to be associated to the verb argument through the idiomatic use of propositinal phrases in which the exact preposition to be used simply has to be learned on a case-by-case basis lather than being logically deducable. English is pretty bad, but it is also my understanding that French is particularly problematic in this respect. The prepostions "of" and "for" (and their equivilents on other languages) are especially bad offenders having many diverse and unrelated meanings. One of those things I'm trying to design out of (as much as I can) the artificial language I am in the process of creating ;) .

[aFrenchie]

I would have said in my bad French 'Merci pour l'information'
Your bad French is not that bad ;)
Sorry not to have corrected this myself earlier: garçoncanadien should have used "pour" ("for") indeed, just like in English :). "de" is wrong in that sentence.

[Cooney]

Speaking of silent-but-not-silent H's, I hate the word "haut" (meaning high). I'm corrupted by years of American pronunciation (haut cuisine, haut couture, etc...) where we pronounce all the letters. Most of the time I hear it spoken in French, I can't hear an H on it, or even a T on it in many cases!

[SupaKrupa]

Your bad French is not that bad ;)
Sorry not to have corrected this myself earlier: garçoncanadien should have used "pour" ("for") indeed, just like in English :). "de" is wrong in that sentence.

Ok... I suppose that's good to know. Is it common or uncommon in French that you can translate it exactly word for word? and a couple examples of each would help immensely :D

This problem with prepositions like in this situation (for/of, etc) arise in languages that lack an effective and comprehensive case-marking system such as Latin has (why the French dropped it we may never know). As a result many oblique case roles (and some non-oblique ones) have to be associated to the verb argument through the idiomatic use of propositinal phrases in which the exact preposition to be used simply has to be learned on a case-by-case basis lather than being logically deducable. English is pretty bad, but it is also my understanding that French is particularly problematic in this respect. The prepostions "of" and "for" (and their equivilents on other languages) are especially bad offenders having many diverse and unrelated meanings. One of those things I'm trying to design out of (as much as I can) the artificial language I am in the process of creating ;) .

:confused:

So you're basically saying... when it comes to these prepositions ("of" and "for"), it's situational?

[aFrenchie]

I'm corrupted by years of American pronunciation (haut cuisine, haut couture, etc...) where we pronounce all the letters. Most of the time I hear it spoken in French, I can't hear an H on it, or even a T on it in many cases!
It must be haute cuisine and haute couture, even in English? (both noun are feminine)
In French, "haute couture" is good but I don't remember having heard "haute cuisine". Rather "grande cuisine"...

Is it common or uncommon in French that you can translate it exactly word for word?
Don't worry, it happens more often that you'd expect it.

[brad]

i just made a seperate forum category for this .. seems like everyone wants it. I just don't want to put to much work on our French speaking members, if they don't have time ... :)

[garçoncanadien]

PART 1: VERBS

Section 2: The Verb Classes and their Present Tense Conjugations

There are three main groups of verbs in French, and they are classified as follows:

Première Groupe (1st group) - les verbes ER
Deuxième Groupe (2nd group) - les verbes IR
Troisième Groupe (3rd group) - les verbes RE

Each group of verbs has a different present tense conjugation, depending on which pronoun is used:

Première (1e) Groupe (1st group) - les verbes ER

Je __________e
Tu __________es
Il __________e
Elle ________e
Nous ________ons
Vous ________ez
Ils ________ent
Elles _______ent

For all regular ER verbs, they are conjugated by replacing the -ER ending with the listed conjugation.

Take, for example, the verb parler, or to speak.

Je parle
Tu parles
Il parle
Elle parle
Nous parlons
Vous parlez
Ils parlent
Elles parlent

Deuxième (2e) Groupe (2nd group) - les verbes IR Type I

Je __________is
Tu __________is
Il __________it
Elle ________it
Nous ________issons
Vous ________issez
Ils ________issent
Elles _______issent

For all regular IR verbs, they are conjugated by replacing the -IR ending with the listed conjugation.

Take, for example, the verb finir, or to finish.

Je finis
Tu finis
Il finit
Elle finit
Nous finissons
Vous finissez
Ils finissent
Elles finissent

There is another type of IR verb that is conjugated in a similar but not exactly the same way; Let's call them "les verbes IR

Type II". They are conjugated as follows:

Je __________s
Tu __________s
Il __________t
Elle ________t
Nous ________ons
Vous ________ez
Ils ________ent
Elles _______ent

Take, for example, the verb sortir, or to leave.

Je sors
Tu sors
Il sort
Elle sort
Nous sortons
Vous sortez
Ils sortent
Elles sortent


Troisième (3e) Groupe (3rd group) - les verbes RE

Je __________s
Tu __________s
Il __________(none)
Elle ________(none)
Nous ________ons
Vous ________ez
Ils ________ent
Elles _______ent

For all regular RE verbs, they are conjugated by replacing the -RE ending with the listed conjugation. However, RE verbs

have a variety of irregular conjugations. Here is your first introduction to irregular verbs in French :D

Take, for example, the verb mettre, or to put. Note the double t in the plural; this is done also in many other verbs ending

in -TRE.

Je mets
Tu mets
Il met
Elle met
Nous mettons
Vous mettez
Ils mettent
Elles mettent

In English, there are several present tenses. For example, you can say I do go, I go, or I am going. French does not make

this distinction. There is only one present tense in French.

Now for your homework :D Please PM me the answers to the following questions.

1. Conjugate the verb dormir (to sleep), being careful to use the conjugations for IR verb Type II.
2. Conjugate the verb écrire (to write), being careful of the following:
The conjugations in plural require an extra v on the left end. i.e. -vons instead of -ons (yes, another

irregularity)
There is élision between Je and the conjugated form of the verb, i.e. j'e_____ not je e_________.
The
3. Conjugate the verb battre (to beat), being careful to use a double t in the plural.
4. Conjugate the verb chanter (to sing).
5. Conjugate the verb polir (to polish), using IR verbs type I.
6. Conjugate the verb grossir (to gain weight), using IR verbs type I.
7. Conjugate the verb entendre (to hear).
8. Conjugate the verb donner (to give).
9. Conjugate the verb continuer (to continue).
10. Conjugate the verb dire (to say), being careful of:
After removing -RE, put an s in its place for all plural conjugations.
The vous conjugation is vous dites (sorry, must memorize this)

If there are no comments, use the regular conjugation.

A très bientôt!

-garçoncanadien

[aFrenchie]

I just don't want to put to much work on our French speaking members, if they don't have time ... :)
Not a problem, we'll do just what we can anyway...
Maybe "apprends" (learn) is a bit ambitious though. You should have used something like "(Some) help for your French" for example :)

[Seapaddler]

Thanks for adding the category Brad, I think a lot of people will benefit from it. Certainly it shouldn't be viewed as a place where French speakers carry and teach the non French speakers, instead it's a forum for resources, help and direction.

We want to learn French in honor of Alizée which is the main motivation for most here.

[Cooney]

It must be haute cuisine and haute couture, even in English? (both noun are feminine)
In French, "haute couture" is good but I don't remember having heard "haute cuisine". Rather "grande cuisine"...


Err, yes, usually it does have that e on the end (properly done). There are many cases where Americans drop the e, but properly you are right, we are supposed to use it.

"Haute cuisine" is a term we use to mean gourmet food, or artful cooking.

The range of pronunciation within American usage is pretty major. Among "fashionable" circles, it usually is pronounced like an aspirated version of the word "oat," and would be preceded by "an" where necessary. On the other end of the scale are people and businesses that pronounce it as "hot," and use "a" before it. One can find almost anything in between if one looks hard enough, but it always has a hard T on the end of it (unlike what I've heard in French).

[brad]

Not a problem, we'll do just what we can anyway...
Maybe "apprends" (learn) is a bit ambitious though. You should have used something like "(Some) help for your French" for example :)

whatever you suggest we will go with :)

if you have something better in French let me know .. I kind of think 'Learn French' is fine, I think most people won't even know what Apprends le français means anyway :)

it is like their first lesson is understanding what the forum heading says .. lol

[aFrenchie]

One can find almost anything in between if one looks hard enough, but it always has a hard T on the end of it (unlike what I've heard in French).
The hard T is ok since it's "haute" in French :) (the T isn't pronounced only in "haut")
if you have something better in French let me know .. I kind of think 'Learn French' is fine, I think most people won't even know what Apprends le français means anyway
Yes, leave it as it is :). If you really want to improve it, I think that infinitive (Apprendre) would be better than imperative. If you still prefer imperative, it would be better in the plural form (Apprenez), that can also sound like formal, which is the same. In a title it's best to speak to everyone instead of one person (although both are correct of course). I know you're not used to that since in English you have "you" for both singular and plural and only one imperative form (covering singular and plural).

[marik]

ofcourse y not?
its a good thing to have another language to your self!
and i vote for yes lol!

[marik]

Apprende le Francais! the forum in this site where you can learn French!

[Drake498]

yep pretty much, its been there since b4 i joined, so y resurrect this thread?