I don't see why you're saying it's "all' going in the wrong direction. You've done a lot of great work here with your translations for Alizee fans and I think you should continue that, but there's a very small part of something, I wanted no part of. I'm not sacrificing my values or is it views, not even for Alizee.

Joe, I don't think you've done anything wrong. Scruffy is being very prudish--- I think Scruffy is the only one here who is bothered by this thread.

Edit:

I have many questions.

Let me start with the "when I dream of wolves" lines:

When I dream of wolves
Its Lola who bleeds

You mentioned that you were reading discussions on the meanings of the lyrics. Do you have links for those discussions? I'm curious to read them.

I'm puzzled by your translation "When I consider my mistakes".

I thought "wolf" was a reference to the French story of a young girl losing her virginity. (I.e. "She met the wolf.") The "wolf" refers to a man (or boy) who takes away the girl's virginity.

So "When I dream of wolves" might be translated as:
"When I dream of losing my virginity."
"When I dream of my virginity being taken away."
"When I dream of sex."
"When I dream of men pursuing me."
"When I dream of men."
etc.

I'm really puzzled by the meaning of the second line, "Its Lola who bleeds." (But for now, let's focus on the "when I dream of wolves" line.)

I don't think I'm being prudish but that's subject to opinion. I just didn't want to be part of a conversation where certain words were being used to describe a character she portrayed, even if those words were very accurate.

As far as "When I dream of wolves, it's Lola who bleeds which I feel is a very accurate interpretation, I feel by wolves she is talking about older men and it doesn't have to be old, old men, just men who are older than someone who should be pursuing her.

and as far as it's Lola who bleeds, that is in reference to the fact that some females, when they have sex for the first time bleed.

There is a line after that, which because of an interpretation I saw I feel has more of a sexual meaning than most people think and fits MF's modus operandi that I won't discuss in here because it could be wrong, but I will discuss it in private.

Yes, that makes sense. I agree.

I think for "subtitle" purposes, "When I dream of wolves, it's Lola who bleeds" is good enough.

I'm still curious as to the exact meaning of this line. (See below.)

Edit:

That makes sense.

But in the case of "bleed", there are two other possible meanings:

(1) being harmed
(2) feeling sympathy on behalf of another person.

In the case of (1):

"Its Lola who bleeds" ==> "It's Lola who is harmed".

In the case of (2):

"It's Lola who bleeds" ==> "its Lola whose heart aches with sympathy."

(Also (2) can be sarcastic. Such as "my heart bleeds for you" which means "I have no sympathy for you.")

My question, is what is the purpose of the line "It's Lola who bleeds"?
In the wolf metaphor, it would be Lola (i.e. not the wolf) who bleeds--- so why does this need to be stated? Is it just for emphasis?

Edit:

Was this talked about previously on the forum? Do you have a link to the thread?

"My question, is what is the purpose of the line "It's Lola who bleeds"?"

Well I thought that was explained in my last post. When the wolves come around, it's Lola who bleeds. I'm sure that is in reference to the fact that when a wolf comes around, it's a lolita, a young lady who hasn't had sex before, bleeds.

In the song, of course the character could bleed only once, so it's in reference to other lolitas.

The line that I think is most questioned, most controversial is "Et quand je donne ma langue aux chats".

You don't want to be a part of something is more than okay.
I respect that and I understand.
What i don't understand is why you feel attacked (which is not at all) If I'm trying to separate Alizee from a real life and Lolita character.I think we both do the same thing, protect Alizee, so can we stop this ridiculus argue.

I think that is related to this part of Nabokov's novel:

It is as though this girl has multiple personalities, in the sense that she was a kind of masked hero: she is a normal girl but, when she wears those clothes and starts to act in a certain way, she becomes Lolita, a completely different person. And whatever she does wearing this "mask", it's always Lolita to do it.
So when she dreams of wolves, she's Lolita, not the ordinary girl. That's why you can call her Lolita, Lo, Lola...

Does it make any sense?

I'ma also puzzled with "When I consider my mistakes", unfortunately i don't have a link that explains it. I've noticed that some people translate it on that way, so I brought it here to discuss. Here is one of the links.

https://www.frenchlyricstranslations...lolita-alizee/

"When I dream of wolves"
"Its Lola who bleeds."
I think these two lines are closely related and have more than one meaning.

If you do some things-------------------------The consequences of that
(Or you make mistakes)---------------------(When you bleed, you pay the ultimate price)
"When I dream of wolves" ---------------------"Its Lola who bleeds."
For example:
If you play with a knife--------------------you will cut yourself and bleed
If you play with wolves--------------------they can bite you and you will bleed

It's all used as camouflage for the main thing, which is very obvious.
losing of virginity and bleeding as the consequences of that.
In the video that line did not cross anywhere to directly mention sexuality.
It is up to the listener to interpret how he wants.
so i don't think we should cross it either.
"When I dream of wolves" it works fine, but if we replace that line with "When I consider my mistakes" we lose background sexual context.
I think it should be
"When I dream of wolves" , or together only with different color

"When I dream of wolves"
("When I consider my mistakes")

Edit:

I'm curious, if you read that book, did you find anything related to methylene blue socks in Lolita outfit description?

No, I have never read it. I know something about it because of Alizée: it intrigues me to know what is the origin of the song, so I made some research. But, honestly, I don't think it's a book I would read.

Yes, that does make sense. That explains it very well; thanks!

If anyone is interested

Lolita by Vladimir Nabokov Summary

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7SrAMtT5lo

His life is an interesting story. From Wikipedia; "Nabokov was born on 22 April 1899 (10 April 1899 Old Style), in Saint Petersburg,[a] to a wealthy and prominent family of the Russian nobility that traced its roots to the 14th-century Tatar prince Nabok Murza, who entered into the service of the Tsars, and from whom the family name is derived.[8][9]:16[10] His father was the liberal lawyer, statesman, and journalist Vladimir Dmitrievich Nabokov (1870–1922) and his mother was the heiress Yelena Ivanovna née Rukavishnikova, the granddaughter of a millionaire gold-mine owner.....................After the October Revolution, the family was forced to flee the city for Crimea,"

So after fleeing one frying pan, he eventually wound up in another frying pan, Germany.

While in Berlin;'.............In March 1922, Nabokov's father was fatally shot in Berlin by the Russian monarchist Pyotr Shabelsky-Bork as he was trying to shield the real target, Pavel Milyukov, a leader of the Constitutional Democratic Party-in-exile. .....................In 1936, Véra lost her job because of the increasingly anti-Semitic environment; also in that year the assassin of Nabokov's father was appointed second-in-command of the Russian émigré group..................... In 1937, he left Germany for France........"

He was actually living in Oregon (USA) when he wrote Lolita, but apparently it was published in France. I'm guessing no publisher would touch it in this country at the time because of it's controversial nature.

He was an accomplished writer, a poet and a professor.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Nabokov

Wikipedia also gives a more detailed look at the book.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lolita

Attachment 3029

The book was published in France in 1955. So it was written before 1955.
I'm puzzled with this in the book:

"Humbert reports to his position at Beardsley College, and enrolls Lolita in high school"

Does anyone know anything about girls school uniforms from that time?
I'm looking for something about methylene blue socks. Something MF would be inspired by when writing her Lolita.

Okkkkk…

“Stockings of methylene blue”… :confused:

They used the dye “Methylene Blue” to actually dye “stockings”, back in the 18th century… ;)

Check out the historical references to “Bluestocking Circle”, and “The Bluestockings”...

Very basically, very early “activists”, for “female equality” and “female rights”… ;)

Hmm, were they implying or inferring to Lolita being a “feminist”, possibly, as in her “exhibiting female equality”, as in her right to express her “intellect”, and, “sensuality” as a woman, in a way that she saw fit, contrary to the “dictat” and “regard” of the rest of society, who would most likely “frown” upon her actions…

As in going to a Nightclub, “shaking her tail about”, (and, emmmm, the rest), and just generally “making an exhibition of herself”, as my “Granny” would have put it.. :)))

Case in point, the “assertions” and “reaction” of her mother, at the start of the video… ;)

You have to remember that MF (Little Miss “Liberated”, who just about “lets it all hang out”, at the “drop of a hat”) and LB (whom I can’t really help but associate the term “dysfunctional” with) are responsible for this “gem”…

Both of whom are “supremely” intelligent, sophisticated, talented, and, are “grandmasters” of the French “martial art” of the “double entendre”…

So, sometimes, as we are all aware, they are not, “saying what they mean”, or are “saying what they are saying”, or “we think they are saying”…

Or are they? :confused:

If you know what I mean… :))) ;)

No!? :D

That's a great bit of info RedRafe. Of course for the song, MF was looking for something that fit in well, that rhymed. But to be aware of blue methylene being used in stockings and to be aware of the 'Blue Stocking Circle' shows a a very good state of knowledge. She went to college with Laurant Boutanant which shows a good sense of education but more importantly, she is the most successful recording artist in France's history which shows an exceptional knowledge for what she does. It's no surprise that she should choose words that rhyme, but also reflect her knowledge of history.

LOLI GOT YOU?

Nothing in that song seems to be without reason, even the smallest little thing I just discovered.
This is a quote I just read:

"During the musical bridge, Alizée repeats "LO- LI-TA "in a loop, as if to symbolize the enchantment of the lolita on boys. We can also understand "Loli t'a ...": "I got you, now I'm obsessed with you".

I used Google translate for the word "Loli t'a" and the result is "Loli got you" :)

And that's how the legendary quote was born:
"What is Alizée? She is the pink apostrophe between the words Loli t'a".





Edit:

(actually I've just seen that the original quote doesn't work the same way in English. I don't know if what I wrote makes sense for you xD)

I'm getting a headache.
Instead of solving the mystery of methylene blue, now I have to solve the pink one too. :)
I'm kidding, and I'm glad you're actively helping here, because any help or just opinion is more than welcome.

I think you're right about the "TA" in Moi Lolita. I've heard that French speakers use "TA" as a contraction for "tu as" ("you have.")

I'm not sure of the specific meaning. I was thinking it meant: "Loli, you got it!"

But you're saying it means "Loli got you."

Hmm.... I'll have to think about it some more.

I have the impression that the lyrics to Moi Lolita is just the girl talking to herself. And so the "LO LI TA" line, is just the girl saying to herself "Loli, you got it!"

Edit:

I don't understand it. Could you explain?

Loli should be the subject and a is the third person of the present simple of the verb "to have". My doubts are about " t' ": if it works as in italian and it means you, what JoeBanana said may be correct.
It may be the same thing we see in "Je t'aime" (I love you). So it is possible that "Loli t'a" means "Loli has got you". I don't know if the English translation is correct but the phrase should mean that you are now "at the mercy of Loli": she controls you with her charm, you can't resist her.

So I tend to think that it is a kind of subliminal message. Lolita has full power on you and you don't even realize that.
But everything I wrote may be wrong because I don't know if that " t'" is what i think.

Edit:

It's just a (bad) joke I made that has nothing to do with Alizée and Moi... Lolita.
There is this famous quote from a play called Cyrano de Bergerac:
It is literally translated as: what is a kiss? It is a pink apostrophe between the words "I love you" (Je t'aime).
Obviously it doesn't work this way in English. I've found out that in English it is: What is a kiss? It is the pink exclamation mark that comes after "I love you!".

So that's why I said that you might not get it.

This is an analysis of Moi Lolita originally in French that I translated using Google.
Some parts may not make sense, but it's pretty readable. I'll leave the website link below.

My name is Lolita, Lo or Lola, similar to the same "
The" me "marks the navel side of adolescence. The way Lolita has to say her name is very childish. In addition, she marks a pause by pronouncing her first name (LO-LITA): "Be careful, I'm not only Lo the little girl, but Lolita and it's not the same"

Excerpt from Nabokov's book: "She was Lo in the morning, Lo very short , one meter forty eight in socks, standing on one foot. She was Lola in pants. She was Dolly at school. She was Dolores on the dotted lines of the forms. But in my arms, it was always Lolita "

The real first name is Dolores, but we attribute several diminutives to it: Lo, Lola, Dolly, Lolita, which each correspond to a part of her personality: Lo and Lola for the simple and innocent girl, Dolly for the classmates and Lolita for lovers. It seems that in this text, Mylene emphasizes the relationship of Dolores therefore d'Alizée with the men since the phrase "Me I am called Lolita" is often repeated: Here Dolores is Lolita. "My name is Lolita,
when I dream of wolves it's Lola who bleeds"
Translation: when I dream of men, part of me (the little girl) hurts, refuses. Lola is bleeding: the blood of human defloration (wolves). Lolita dreams of wolves, she has no lovers, many boys please her. For Lolita as much as for Lola, men are threatening (wolves), she does not know them well, for her there is no man in particular, it would rather be a "pack" of man. It is important to note that Lolita dreams of wolves, for now men are still in the realm of fantasy, it is a dream that she has not realized because men have a scary side for her.

"When I fork my tongue, I have a giggle as crazy as a phenomenon"
"fork my tongue": two-way: speaking (pronouncing one word in place of another) or kissing a boy. Take the second possibility, Lolita kisses the boys (a priori made mature) but when she does not succeed it makes her laugh: Lolita is light, this is all a game, she does not take it seriously (it's lola which is still in it). Lolita dares, does things, but when it crashes she becomes Lola again.

"My name is Lolita, Lo de vie Lo with Dilluvian loves"
Lolita is "Lo of life": in two senses: Lo the girl full of life or the water of life. Let us take the second possibility: Lolita is brandy, it intoxicates men and makes them happy as wine does. Worse, just like alcohol, Lolita can become a vice you can't live without. Lo has a lot of friends, it varies, a real little libertine but beware it's LO and not LOLITA so we deduce that the "Dilluvian loves" are practically platonic. Second verse:

"My name is Lolita, college girl with blue methylene stockings"
Here we have the famous fantasy of men: the little college girl who seems very wise in her uniform but in fact who is not at all .. .
"I'm called Lolita,
With Lolita, it has to move, but always as she wants because she is angry! We can also understand in "mid-wool" the first name Mylene: and yes Alizée (alias Lolita) is not the "mini mylene" as some have nicknamed but it is Alizée in short.

"Motus and mouth that does not tell mom that I am a phenomenon"
Motus and mouth sewn! Mom must not know that I am a phenomenon ". This sentence underlines the childish side of Lolita, on the one hand with the expression of the beginning then also by the fear of the mother." I am a phenomenon "=" I am a lolita, an enticing teenager, I play big "but mom must not be aware. Choru

" It's not my fault "
Self-defense phrase, it seems that Lolita feels the need to justify herself as if she had done something stupid! Lolita teases men and she knows it ("I'm a phenomenon") but apparently she doesn't do it on purpose. Beyond her control? Lolita knows what she is doing but it seems that she does not control everything so with this infantile prase, she hides behind Lola to remind her that she is not yet an adult. This sentence can be intended for men as well (she feels lost compared to what she caused in them) or for her mother.

"And when I give my tongue to the cats I see the others ready to pounce on me"
It is in my opinion the most daring prase that Mylene has written in her entire career. First interpretation: "when I no longer know what to do and that I have gone too far, the others realize that I was only playing and blame me". We can understand this only by listening because we can see that "cats" is in the plural. From there we can understand: "when I kiss men, other men would like me to do the same with them" or then "when I kiss men, I know that my mother / my parents will yell "or again and this interpretation only engages me" when I practice fellatio (and not always with the same boy) I know that others want me to do the same "."It's not my fault, if I hear everything around me LOLITA, Me Lolita"
"Hello Helli you're ahhhh!" : "hi lolita, you are super pretty" to say the least.
"Hello Helli you're mine Lolita": everyone would like lolita to belong to her, whether it's the boys where her mom (who doesn't want her to grow)

NB: during the musical bridge, Alizée repeats "LO- LI-TA "in a loop, as if to symbolize the enchantment of the lolita on boys. We can also understand "Loli t'a ...": "I got you, now I'm obsessed with you".

https://ventdecorse.skyrock.com/6782...oi-lolita.html