Two wonderful positive posts by a couple of the most musically talented people we have here. Thanks so much, both of you.

I hope I get to hear some of the wonderful music you make in the future... that has been inspired by your listening experiences. :cool:

That may be true of todays scene, The Who were considered progressive back then, Pink Floyd, the same, Alice? well ok mabey not. It is a matter of taste. I still like that rock opera stuff I burned some of it. But others that r into metal I tried to show did not care for it as much. as like Motorhead lets say or Metallica mabey. Metallica tried the whole symphony rock thing I think, they could not make it work for them.

It's true of any time it's about the material, not about what type of album it is.

Regards,

Jung

Uh, that's not a FACT, that's an OPINION. Many of us love UEDS, and some think it's her best work ever.

I totally grasp that concept. Stating that UEDS "wasn't very good" is not constructive. Saying something like, "I believe Alizée is not suited to electro, and her voice and image work best in a pop/dance mix" would be constructive.

Obvious in hindsight. To me and others its pretty "obvious" that much of the French public thinks of her as the "Lolita" or a Mylene puppet and won't accept her as anything else, no matter how good her work is. I'd love to be proven wrong. Oh, and the sales of Psych were pathetic in France compared to Mexico. They did abandon her.

Edit:

Sometimes, your posts are hard to read, but I'm glad I did.... this made me laugh pretty damn hard. Way to bring some sense to that screwed up video.... "let's take a sweet pop princess and put her in some dark hell" ... WTF?

Many is a very relative term. You say many of us, I assume you mean members of AAm and maybe AF. How many "active" members do these two forums have and of those active members, how many think UEDS was her best work. I don't think it's a very impressive number, and after all the French media labled this album a flop. Do you think that's something they do lightly? There was no tour, no concerts. There are many awards presented by the music industry for all different types of music, not just main stream music. They often recognize artistic merit by non-mainstream artists. Did UEDS win anything? Are you trying to say the French media doesn't know what they are doing? Are you trying to say the French music establishment is too stupid to recognize artistic merit? Could it be that the album just wasn't that good?

I realize you'r just saying " I believe Alizee is not suited to electro.........." to use as an example here and you probably don't believe that or maybe you do. But I just want to state that I don't think electro was necessarily a bad direction for her to go in. I think it was mainly a very poor choice of bands (CM) for her to hook up with and a concept album based on the life of Edie Sedgwick was also a wrong choice. She should have looked for more of a variety of electro music.


I totally disagree with this. I think the past two albums just haven't been that good and her image during the Psych era didn't help things out. Her image during the UEDS era looked like it was going to be a lot better, but the album never got out of the starting blocks for her to find out.

In essence what you are saying here is millions of people in France are ignorant. You're saying that these people have been imprinted by the Lolita and now they can't recognize a good song when they hear one.

Pattern: Someone points out that whether UEDS is "good" or "not good" is a subjective opinion. You come back with in effect a survey, or implied survey, of how popular or unpopular it is, as if this were the same thing as good or not good. It's not. There's no getting around it: judgments of quality are subjective and there is no way to turn them into an objective, provable question. You're just going to have to live with that reality. :p

Now, you want to say that it didn't sell well, that it wasn't a very popular album, that it wasn't a commercial success -- that's objective and provable (and true). But to say this means it wasn't good is false reasoning.

Pick any country in the world and the majority of its people are indeed quite ignorant. I'm sure the French are not immune to this universal human condition.

No it couldn't be, because "good" is subjective. What you're doing is belittling the taste and opinions of anyone who doesn't agree with you, and trying to justify your opinions with data.


It doesn't matter how many statistics you can pull about album sales or the number of people who like it versus the number who don't, it won't turn your opinion into a fact. You can dislike Psychédélices and Une enfant du siècle all day long, but when you try to tell people who like them that they aren't good, you're just being ignorant.

Looking at popular music, it should be glaringly obvious that how well something sells can not be an accurate measure of how good it is (if for no other reason than because "good" is subjective). So you can lay your "UEDS didn't sell well because it isn't good" theory to rest, because it's flawed on every level.

<hr>
Then why did Une enfant du siècle sell so poorly?

a) poor marketing; not enough people knew about the album
b) Alizée's past image; the French public think she is a joke / don't want to like her / are not willing to give her new music a chance
c) niche appeal; the music appeals to a group too small to sell huge numbers
d) any combination of the above

Whatever the reason, it wasn't because the album isn't good.

This is a very clever way of tap dancing around the subject. You aren't willing to come out and say that most of the people in France who heard her album are too ignorant to realize it might be good, but you're readily willing to imply it. So are you or are you not saying these people in France are ignorant, or will you do some more tap dancing?

Bottom line is except for the limited amount of people in these forums, I haven't heard any one of significance say that this a good album in any kind of way.


EDIT:

Well isn't this comment belittling "To me and others its pretty "obvious" that much of the French public thinks of her as the "Lolita" or a Mylene puppet and won't accept her as anything else, no matter how good her work is."
and didn't Deepwaters belittle the people of France by "implying" they might be ignorant.
Oh but in these cases, it's okay becuase it's in support of what you believe.

Another opinion. Could be wrong. Could be right, but like I said, all it is, is an opinion.

Didn't you just say something about "tap dancing around the subject"? And now you're doing it.

I'm not talking on behalf of severianb or Deepwaters. I'm talking about you constantly saying Alizée's past two albums "aren't good" as if it's an objective truth—and trying to prove it based on sales and popularity. It's not—and you can't.

Whether or not the music is good is solely a matter of taste.

<hr>
You're not getting it, so let me rephrase this: "It's not good" is not a reason for it selling poorly because "it's not good" is not an inherent quality. It is subjective.

"Most people did not find it to be good" would be an acceptable reason (which I covered under "niche appeal.")

Still, "most people" do not get to dictate their taste as objective truth.
<br>

I wish I could point out the articles I've read, but I can't because I don't remember where I saw them. But regardless, UEDS has received some good critical reviews as far as its musical and artistic qualities are concerned.

What “sells” has nothing to do with good and bad. A perfect example of this is Rebecca Black’s recent success with “Friday”. Personally, I think one would have a difficult time arguing that “Friday” has a high degree of artistic and musical quality, but it definitely is selling. I would be disappointed if Alizée did an album of "Friday" type songs just to sell.

Think about your own career, whatever it may be. You gain a lot of specialized knowledge. You also become aware that the general public knows actually very little about what you do and what constitutes quality work on your part. Music is no different. The general public actually knows very little about music, but that doesn't mean they are ignorant. However they know what they like and what they don't like, and that's what determines where they will spend their money. We shouldn't confuse quality with quantity.

At least I'm willing to say I could be wrong. I really don't believe I'm wrong, but I'm only human and know there's a chance I could be mistaken. Are you willing to say you may be mistaken?

This is a grand example of your flawed way of thinking. Are you really telling me that if "anyone of significance say[s] that this is a good album" then your opinion can be swayed? You must have no concept of fact versus opinion, or subjective versus objective.

If all you need is someone of signficance to tell you that Une enfant du siècle is good, then consider yourself Trumped. ;)

It wont change the fact that I don't really care for the album. If "many" people said it was good, if it sold well, or if it won some type of prize for let's say it's artistic merit, then I would deduce that it is a good album, albeit one not to my liking.

.....and as far as tap dancing, you never did answer my question.

also I found your first sentence belittling, but that's okay for anyone on your side of the fence to do it.

and take for example your using Donald Trump. He is a person of significance. Why? Because to get where he is today probably required him to be a shrewd judge of character and material not to mention numerous other things. So if just this one man said the album was good, it would make me far more likey to believe it is a good album, but once again, one still not to my liking.

EDIT:

Please feel free to talk about the dress. I'm curious to get a woman's opinion about the dress if you haven't already expressed it. Is this the type of dress that a teenage girl might normally wear any day or did it look more like a maternity dress to you?

What makes an album "good" other than being to your liking? I don't see how you could judge it in any way that isn't opinion based.

Most French people, like most people everywhere, are ignorant. That however has nothing to do with why UEDS wasn't popular. Ignorance is a state of not knowing facts. That UEDS is a good album (or a bad one) is not a fact. One cannot be "ignorant" of that in either direction.

In any case, I am under no obligation to like or dislike something on the basis of popular vote. Art is not a democracy, it's anarchy, and I, like everyone else, am a law unto myself.

"Significance" is also a subjective judgment on your part. And again, any such assertion by anyone, significant or otherwise, is irrelevant. The quality of an album (or any other work of art) is a subjective judgment, not a fact. Assertions about it are neither true nor false. No evidence can exist in support of them, and any evidence offered in support of them is always false. Every assertion you have ever made trying to prove that UEDS is bad is false. Every assertion you or anyone else will ever make trying to prove that UEDS is bad (or good) is false. Every assertion ever made by anyone throughout all time trying to prove that any work of art ever created is good or bad is false.

Clear now?

When we're talking about works of art, "could be right, could be wrong" is also false. Such assertions are neither right nor wrong, always.l

They didn't "label" it a flop, it WAS a flop. That is a fact. ( Unless you compare it to most electo albums, then it was a success, but I digress)

As someone else in this thread already pointed out, I remember reading more than one UEDS review that praised it. As for "artistic merit"... I could give a rats ass. What matters to me is what I like. And I like UEDS. I also thought Beavis and Butthead was sheer genius. I think my opinion is awesome.

There can be very little argument, *sales-wise* that it was a poor decision. As others have pointed out, that means *nothing* artistically.

YES! YES! YES! You get me.. You really get me! Most people are ignorant morons about most things. Music is no exception. I, myself am a ignorant moron about many things. This is all my opinon of course. ;)

Yeah, it probably is belittling. Whatever. It's my OPINION, and I stated such. I never said it was FACT.

It is also my OPINION that Gourmandises and MCE music and the image associated with it is KIDS stuff, and Lilly shouldn't go back to it. She is worthy of so much more. Let talentless dolls like Britney Spears rehash former glory.... that's beneath Alizee.

I don't think anyone is trying to say she should go back to her former style, but that she should create her own style that really suits her. In all honestly, I don't see this ever happening. Alizee seems very influenced and whoever/whatever she admires at the time, is the style she goes for. When she met Jeremy, she did the whole punk rocker thing. Psychedelices reminds me of that Madonna album (the name escapes me) where she does a bunch of different styles. Then I guess she really admired CM and their style and wanted to go for that.


I liked a few songs on the album, but overall, I found it very boring. Even when I'm wanting to relax, I can barely listen to it, it's too simple. I guess thats the sound they were going for though; electronic, but sort of 1984 electronic with one synth and some percussion. Not really my cup of tea. I like more intricate compositions. :)

Implicit critical praise for UEdS!
 

...just because some show said it was a flop and the album didn't sell many copies doesn't mean it is FACT that the album IS/WAS/ALWAYS WILL BE a flop. Saying something is a flop is all opinion. It's just like me saying the album was a huge success, it's all opinion.

So it is not fact that the album is a flop. But I agree that a good amount of people in France and abroad believe the album was a flop, but again, them thinking it was a flop is their opinion.

QUESTION: Does anyone know how many UEDS albums were made/manufactured?

The only complaint I had with UEDS is the minimalist approach to the electro arrangements. The reason the album still works for me is that I like the songs themselves and I like the melodies. I personally am a big fan of progressive music, which typically has complexity in composition as well as arrangements that require the musicians to really put forth noteworthy performances. Of course by its very nature, pop music usually does not get too complicated, as it would probably not appeal to the masses. It’s meant to be more fun, and so therefore less challenging and thoughtful.

But if Alizée puts out another album, regardless of genre, I’d like to see the musicians and writers really step it up. There are ways to compose and produce music that can appeal to the masses, and yet contain some complexity in the compositions and performances to be of interest to the rest of us.

Favorable reviews quoted by iTunes
 

Here are some quick and dirty English translations of the "critical" remarks at the iTunes page which sells UEdS:

A return winner! (5 stars)
by Thierry VERAN

An excellent electro-pop album. If you liked Alizée's Mylene period, you will find her voice acidic. If you like quality electro (high output), if you love the 80's ... this album is for you. Bravo!

GREAT = O (5 stars)
by jordan fernandez

A very good return, she takes risks and I rather like her, my big favorites are Factory Girl, Limelight, & les Collines, even if you love the titles more but hey x)

My heart is light... (5 stars)
by Christian K

A "escaped note" from the land of Mylène in recent years, Alizée offers and gives us a flawless album, well written and produced. Thank you, Institubes! She deserves to be deemed the muse of quality mainstream electro? A Glass Candy to the French? We sincerely hope so! Design, styling, hair fringe, lyrics and artwork seriously rock, and that is rare in France today. Bravo!

P.S. Alizée's home page at http://www.alizee-officiel.com/ has lost its "Virginity": the link to the sales page for UEdS at Virgin is dead (404).

Of course there are going to be people who like the album and give it good reviews. Unfortunately, the majority disliked the album and it did not sell well. Facts are facts.

It's a good album, it's just not a popular album. Today, the masses enjoy fast-paced or heavy-rhythm music with a good beat that makes them feel excited; Les Collines and maybe Limelight could fit the bill with some work but it's too late for that, of course. :rolleyes:

I really can't say anything else that hasn't already been said upwards of 10,000 times, but there you go.

Only 20 000 of Alizée's fourth album has sold in France, it was not a big success there, but I like this Album.

I literally cannot answer this question with a simple "yes" or "no".

Do I like it just for the songs? HELLZ NO.
Do I absolutely hate the music? Not really.
But as a patriotic citizen of Lilly Town, I do love anything produced by Alizée; therefore I love UEDS.

Some people say they like it because the songs flow together and really compliment each other, which I find ironic, because in comparison to her previous albums, I find UEDS severely lacking in variety. Even if we do exclude MCE and Gourmandises for the MF influence, Psychedelices had a nice mixture of songs, some pop(MJ, Fifty Sixty, Lilly Town), a bit of "rap"(Decollage), nice slower vocals(L'effet, Lonely List) and others such as PLP.

I'm glad to hear that the new album coming out is more like Psychedelices-esque pop. It's just my kind of music, and I think it just appeals most to the mainstream audience.

AGREE AGREE AGREE....yeah

It's the best stoner music. The techno sounds and all, along with her voice, puts you in a psychedelic trance. And me, I could care less what's mainstream or not. I like this album a lot.

I've never been stoned before, but I have heard that listening to music while stoned is quite the experience. As for it being mainstream, it appeals to much larger crowd, and brings in more economic success than appealing to a smaller select group. Which is why I'm glad that her next album will be of that sort.

Yeah, that, and you mentioned her earlier albums being more of your style. I was just throwing that out there that I didn't care that it wasn't mainstream. Haha, wasn't really referring to what you said. But, yeah, the more mainstream, the more successful it'll be. Which is good. I like any material she puts out there, anyways. Pop, techno pop... whatever she wants to call it, lol. And, yes... it is a great experience. :D

Hahaa, okay, I kind of misunderstood you there. :o

But hey, I'm in the same boat. She could release a screamo, heavy metal, or a capella album, and I'd still go out and buy it. :p

Heavy metal Alizee. Dude, that would kill! On a more realistic note, this album has grown tremendously on me in recent months. 14 Decembre, Grand Central, Factory Girl... the composer, forget his name, is pretty good.

Just discovered that each of those songs I listed have different composers. Interesting.

If Alizée did the vocals on a dubstep track I would have to buy it. She can sing on electronic music tracks and it would be great to hear her voice in stuff like this track for instance:

<iframe width="420" height="345" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/FDYIdBZUl2Y" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

or maybe even on dirtier dubstep, but i'm not sure her voice would really suit this sort of style:

<iframe width="560" height="345" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/VZMfhtKa-wo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Yup! I'm fans of both Skrillex and Mt Eden. I think her voice goes along very good with it, but yeah, Skrillex is HEAVY dubstep, so I don't know about that, haha. If the rumors are true, it seems she's "going back to her roots." I really would like to see her do more in this genre, but that's probably just me and a few select others. Avid/original fans I'm sure enjoyed the album, but it's not their style. It's a shame for me :/

So, I used to lurk these forums but hadn't checked them since shortly after Psych (which I loved); hadn't even realized a new album has come and apparently gone quietly while I was away. Oh well, guess you can't expect U.S. marketing for Alizee sadly.

Checking iTunes US version I see Factory Girl album available; nothing called UEDS is there. I'm assuming it's just an English album name, but before I purchase could anyone verify for me that the songs are the same as the French version? If not I'll just have to get a proper CD mailed out again.

I don't want to end up with something like the (imo) terrible English songs I got on my version of MCE. At least both the French and English were on there, but even though they were "bonus" tracks just having to skip the English all the time annoyed me.

Thanks in advance!

Welcome, Pauly. :hatsoff:

There was a thread about the Factory Girl album iTunes. (cliquez)

We never got to the bottom of anything, but it seems like it might be an illegal distribution of the album. And as Azhiri pointed out, the preview for the song Grand Central is actually Limelight (and they're listed as having the same total runtime); so if you purchase the album from iTunes you may very well end up with two copies of Limelight and no Grand Central.

You should definitely buy the actual CD, IMO.