A word of caution to the sharing.
 

Seapaddler steps onto the soapbox

As I browse around the net collecting videos, trying at least (oxyshare you suck) and then reading the post about her entire En Concert DVD uploaded to google video I got to thinking and got a bit concerned....

If it wasn't for people in France recording her television appearances and uploading them onto websites I would have never heard of her so I'm grateful for that, however other people uploading her commercial products like the DVD and mp3's will only damage her sales no matter the quality of the upload.

We are so used to sharing her content as it is due to the absence of new material that I can imagine people will automatically start sharing her new stuff when it comes out. I hope not. Only 300,000 sold in France for MCE may or may not be the main reason the MF and LB team moved on but if it is, uploading her commercial stuff new or old will certainly hurt her future.

If you think about it the ipod popularity really took off and was booming when her second album came out. The first ipod was late 2001 and MCE was released early 2003, by then probably a lot of people shared the singles with their friends and subsequently shared the album. This could happen to her 3rd album. Of course it’s impossible to know for sure if mp3’s hurt her sales it’s only speculation on my part.


When her next single/album does reach the World for her sake we should all adopt a zero tolerance for pirating her music or bought content. Never upload or share her purchased music to anyone even your best buddy. Tell people to pay for it and support her. Her commercial success in 2007 could make or break her career. If you want to enjoy her music in the future don't pirate her stuff in the present.

Seapaddler steps down from the soapbox

Addendum:

RMJ puts it succinctly, CD sales are stats and the all important indicators to a record company regarding how they proceed with the artist in the near future or distant future, it's common sense business. Whether you think she gets 1% or 50% in profit isn't the support I'm referring to. Sales numbers imply a fan base and without the numbers, the corporate suits assume there isn't a fan base to backup their investment.

All I wanted to say is the community as a whole is in a Download and Share mentality at the moment, I wanted to point out we need to make sure we snap out of it when she comes back and get into a buying mode and extend that mindset to the people we introduce her to.

You know she (and most other artists signed by big record companies) only gets about a dollar (USD) per album sold, right?

If you want to support her, goto her next concert, where she will get a good chunk of the money off the ticket..

I personally believe you should buy the album because you want the physical CD, all the inserts, and the higher quality music.. If you are buying the CD to support the artist you are wasting your time...

Of the ~500 people who will probably read your post, it might persuade one or two people to buy her CD, if that.. Congrats, Alizée just got $2 more dollars.. As if she needed it anyway..

Buy the new CD because you want it, not because it's going to make any difference in her career

Good points, but lack of CD sales relates to whether there is a Tour or not. It's all relative.

True, but it's ultimatley up to the media wether or not there are a lot of CD sales or not.. According to them, whatever they play is what we like..

i agree with mr hibby
and just share with us.
sorry Alizee but this is the only way i can see you since you're not answering my calls.

I totally agree with this.
Even if I was given the chance to copy Alizée's work, I would not do it simply because I want Alizée to succeed and continue in her chosen work and please her fans.

The only exception to this that I can think of is if a given piece of work of Alizée's was no longer available anywhere and I wanted it, such as a discontinued song, etc.

As far as attending one of her concerts and buying stuff while at it, since I am not within a reasonable distance of her possible concert venues, I would still hope that Alizée might have a web site up to purchase goodies from where the sales will go to her and not the record company.

AND, as far as how much Alizée would receive for her CD sales, since some of the songs were written by Jeremy and hopefully, Alizée, they would get a percentage of the publishing royalites and record sales. Every little bit counts, no matter how small an individual figure it may be. Think about every dollar from world-wide sales of her CD and that could mean a lot of money. We should never just think that it is ONLY a dollar here, or a dollar there. It all counts, and Alizée deserves to get it all.
Stephen

I'm not suggesting you go share Alizée's music...

Who the fuck cares how much she gets from them as long as she gets even one cent ?

It's not just about money (except to record companies), try to understand that. Every CD that has been sold will show up in stats. And those stats means helluva lotta to record companies. And if they ain't happy it's end of Alizée. If you ask me those companies go can fuck themselves but that's how it just is. We can't live without them.

True but there won't be the concert with your methods.

Yeah, I waste my time everyday when paying for my food, too. Hell why not leave the restaurant after the food. Much faster and cheaper. Who the fuck cares if the chef loses it's job because I don't pay my meals. As long as I have tummy full of good food...


And if you those 500 people would pay for the music it would be helluva lotta money and much more sales. And you don't even buy the whole album if you don't want to, you can get single tracks nowadays.

No, buy the album if you are going to listen to it. If you are not going to listen to it ever, then don't buy it (unless you want to have it for some other reason). Easy as that.

ok RMJ, on what side of whos bed did you wake up on? you should keep your pissy mood to yourself, and not on this forum

I'm not going to respond to all of this (because you seem to be in a bad mood), but I will respond to the above statement:

I'm not suggesting you don't buy her CDs, I'm saying don't buy them thinking that you are making a difference in her career, that isn't what music is about and that should not be a driving factor to you spending $25+ (shipping from europe) on a CD.

Merry christmas to you as well!

yeah..lol

i think RMJ needs to take some prozak or something..or better yet get laid

And some are wondering why Alizée is having some pain to get a new record label now.... :rolleyes:

There's no proof that she is having a hard time finding a label, just about everything is just rumors right now...

Noone other than atra201 was suggesting pirating her music anyway..

Don't be so sure. I can't see another reason why the 3rd album isn't there yet...

There are a thousand reasons!

she may have taken longer than anticipated to record the album (theres a thousand reasons why she may have taken longer aswell)

the record company wanted to wait until the new year (better chance at getting awards)

stupid issues like them not being able to decide on a single

contract issues (kinda the same thing as not being able to get a label though..)

the record company does not like the album, and wants Alizée to redo it. normally they would just dismiss an album if they don't like it, but I doubt they are stupid enough to not give Alizée a second chance..

And of course: she is having troubles finding a record label..

I for one will buy her next CD even if I do download her MP3s. I only wish that there were some kind of personal bank account for her so I could send her money directly. I would send her at least $100 for her 2 CDs and videos that I've already downloaded but probably much more because I would like to support her career as much as possible. I already am purchasing her concert DVD from Amazon.fr, although I've already found it in posted .AVI format.

RMJ puts it succinctly, CD sales are stats and the all important indicators to a record company regarding how they proceed with the artist in the near future or distant future, it's common sense business. Whether you think she gets 1% or 50% in profit isn't the support I'm referring to. Sales numbers imply a fan base and without the numbers, the corporate suits assume there isn't a fan base to backup their investment.

All I wanted to say is the community as a whole is in a Download and Share mentality at the moment, I wanted to point out we need to make sure we snap out of it when she comes back and get into a buying mode and extend that mindset to the people we introduce her to.

Interestingly, if you combine Dotty Old Man's and Seapaddler/RMJ's views you get my take on the whole downloading debate. DOM's right -- you absolutely cannot stop it, and all the people in the recording industry who are trying to are barking up the wrong tree. What needs to be done is embrace it, because this is how people discover new music.

However, then we run into a problem if too many people share Hiby's attitude. Yeah, the higher quality and physical product are nice, but lots of people aren't so picky, and sooner or later digital downloads are gonna be able to match anything you can buy in a store. So what needs to be done is a mass re-education as to how people think about this.

It's the same issue as with voting. These days everyone tends to feel lost in the crowd. We've got to break that and make everyone feel like they're important again. Because it doesn't matter if an artist makes a single cent off a sale or not, each and every one counts. Think of your purchase as your vote of support.

Of course one can't stop it all together ! But that's not even the point !

The point is the we, THE FANS, should not hurt her ! I know that million people will download them no matter what but I don't want to see them here promoting such bullshit !

If you don't care her and just want to steal her music then find some other board to do that. Place where no-one cares about anyone or anything. Should not be hard to find.

You miss my point..

Even if the artist did get 100% of the CD's cover price, I still think it is stupid to buy a CD just to support the artist. I was mearly pointing out how little buying the disc helps. Again: I'm not saying don't buy the CD, I'm saying don't buy the CD to support the artist.

Let me say that in another way just incase the point wasn't clear: Buy the CDs. Buy them because the songs are good and you like them. Don't buy them to support the artist. Don't steal music. Obviously don't buy CDs with music you don't like..

Would you every buy windows just to support microsoft? Hell Fucking No. They do not need more money, and infact, the EU had the right mind when they fined MS for no real reason at all.. Most artists really don't need any more money, and the ones that do, will tell you that you should buy their CD because you like their music (assuming you do like their music), not because they want the money from you.

I would atleast have a lot more respect for the record industry if they would make their music readily downloadable, at a decent bitrate (192kbps mp3's or more), for a reasonable price.. They wont adapt to the changing market, they sue average people for thousands of dollars per song downloaded, and get away with it. It will be a cold day in hell when I buy a cd for any other reason that because I want to listen to it.

Sure, the artists deserve their money, the record companies do deserve their money, but why oh why do they really need that much of it? No, thats not a rhetorical question, give me one good reason why they need that much money. If they even spent the money on air that would atleast be better than the money sitting in their bank, going nowhere, being taken from people who will put the money to good use.

Of course, I must add a cliché: 99% of the world's money is owned by 1% of the population.

I know I'll be flamed from atleast a few people for this, but oh well...

Edit:
What is this hurting her you have been speaking of lately? Not giving her money causes her pain? Where the hell did that come from?

Any artist will tell you that they are happy people are enjoying their work, else they are a shitty artist.

Currently downloading is stealing, but only because of the way we use it. Imo, the entire system needs to be re-contextualized. If what I said were true, i.e. if everyone's philosophy about music was what it should be, then it wouldn't matter if her material was posted here or anywhere, because it wouldn't change a single sale. Yes, I know this is not how things are now or will be in the near future, but that's my ideology. I believe in the long term it's the only "solution": people able to download openly and freely, yet without fear that it will effect sales or artist support.

Again, it's not about money. "Support" comes in many forms. I happen to like Microsoft overall (sure, they screw a lot up, but they're better than most companies their size would be), so I do consider my purchase of their products in part as a vote of confidence. I could very easily have downloaded them all illegally, but I choose not to.

Buying a CD isn't about putting money in the artist's pocket. It's about making a statement as to what you like and support, so that more of such things get made in the future. This is especially important in Alizée's case, because like it or not her career is on very unstable ground at the moment...

I'll say it once and I'll say it again: see she 100% or 0% of the profit, have she nothing or all the money in the world, each and every sale of her third CD will count and shape the path of her future career. Let's make it a good one... not just for her, but for us!

EDIT: I just though of an example to show you what I mean. Jérémy's new album tanked. Now, I don't think he's a shitty artist, and I also doubt he needs the money. But because so few copies were sold, his career is more or less finished for the time being. Plans for a tour have vanished, and there will be no more promotion for the disc. Why should the record company do anymore if they don't think there's a profit to be made? In interviews he's said that he's trying not to worry too much about it, and that he'll survive, but think how much it must suck for his fans: all the goodies they were looking forward to taken away! How would we feel if the same thing happened to Alizée and us?!

The entertainment world of today is structured in such a way that a collison of artist and consumer is unavoidable.

The old days where an artist created something and asked for nothing and only basked in the knowledge that the consumer was enjoing thier hard work have long since vanished.

I don't know the history of entertainment and when money started exchanging hands but in the digital world of today I see no hope of artist and consumer ever coming to terms when greed is the bottom line.

The digital genie is out of the bag so to speak and anything that can be digitized is up for grabs on the Internet.

What a mess, lol :eek:

I think it all comes down to the artist, the creator. They start the ball rolling, not the consumer. The artist has to give in first.

The internet is a double edged sword, it can provide an immense reservoir of interest for your product and it can also provide an opportunity for those to gain access to your product and manipulate it.

Instant news, instant media, instant transferring of information worldwide! I see no hope for this issue of ever getting resolved.

Yes, it's currently that way and may be that way long time.

Of course I hope it wasn't this way and that music would be available for those who cares about it and artist could share it to them. And they could interact with each other. Music is after all made to be enjoyed. But it's utopia. And we don't live there. Only way to show her and her record companies that we want her is to make it show up in stats.


Excatly. If her albums won't sell, it's bye bye to Alizée. Forever.

(No, I don't believe that she would stop making music even if the next album wouldn't sell. But I just mean that it makes so much harder for us to be able to see the future projects and it will be so much harder for her to reach us.)



What makes it naive ? Because I care for her ? Because I don't want her to stop her career ? Because I want to support her as much as I possible can ? Because I want her to keep making the one thing that I love ?

And like I said, only one thing makes this world rolling, money. If you don't believe in money, you are the one who is naive. Only money matters in current world. It's unfortunate but that's how it is.



CD, download, whatever the media is, if you don't pay it you steal it. Because Alizée currently does not share free music. If she would, it would be clearly stated on the site of her or where ever she would give it to us for free.

And music is property. Everything in them is copyrighted material. And the owner of Alizée's music is currently Polydor, for which Alizée works(/worked). You cannot recreate the music without direct permission from Polydor.


Well, what's the point staying here if you aren't fan of her ? That's the point. If you don't care about her then why to stay here when you can steal her music elsewhere much easier, without someone going mad at you.

That still exists on the internet, see the open-source movement.. I see what you mean that the internet is a double edged sword, but all the internet is is free information. The same informations you can get anywhere else, just a hell of a lot more of it (including boot-leg music).. If the internet is a double-edged sword, then that is just our society being magnified.

The balance of right and wrong, left and right, and everything in between has gotten me thinking over the last few weeks.. I've come to realize from the point of view of the universe, there really is no positive or negative, it's all just neutral. No good, no bad, even the "worst" of crimes (ie. rape) end up doing something good (ie. bringing families and communities together to console the victim). The double edged sword that you speak of does not exist, it's simply a sword with no sides..

RMJ: What happened to you today?

Yes, it is not your job to stop them. But not also to help them or to support them doing it. You should discourage them doing it because you know it's wrong. It's plain wrong. And it's even worse when these some people doing it calls themselves fans. It's disgusting !

Bullshit or not, it's the REALITY. We don't live in utopia like said. We live in capitalistic world. If you prefer utopia then go to China or something, at least they have communism there so it's bit closer to utopia. Even tho it doesn't work...


So you are now also making fun of me ? It's not enough that you hurt me by supporting on her fan board stealing her music ? Thanks a lot. I feel so good now. It's great to be here with fellow fans.

Yes, it's their business and that business does not belong to her fan board ! Like said there's million other boards to do that business. Forums where no-one gives a shit of your lack of respect.

All I got is...Go RMJ! I agree with you!

Oh, and, lay off him nurvonic. "Go take some prozak.. or get laid" Sheesh.

yes please! :p

So far everything that I download from artists that I am not familiar with I buy the album if its good. I still like the actual CD with the cover, artwork, and lyrics.

A certain amount of piracy is actually good. Without at least a little bit piracy hardly any of us would have ever heard of Alizee in the first place. Her songs, her picturers, and her TV video appearances are all copyrighted material, I'm sure. Also, without piracy the world would have never heard of William Shakesphere. You see, he never did publish his own work. According to the "History Channel" it was the software pirates of his day that copied and then published his work. And volia.. the rest is history!

When it comes to people or companies that I like (and would have probably bought their product anyway) I will purchase their products, even if I already have a copy. I'm buying Alizee's concert from Amazon.fr although I already have the super sharp video and I'm going to buy her 2 CDs. I just wish I could help support directly somehow, so she would get the money, not the music companies. Anyway.. that's my take on the matter.

not that i feel like butting in between an RMJ and Dotty political debate about what should and shouldnt be done, i'll add my two cents worth to matter anyway. i'll make it brief. downloading music is technically stealing whether it be a movie, a song, or what have you, but i download it for one thing and one thing only - i love music. plain and simple. this includes Alizee's music! bring it on RMJ, bring it on! i dont download her music to send her career down the spiral. THAT WAS NEVER MY INTENTION! who'd ever wanna do something so sinister like that anyway? i think its pretty obvious to me or anyone who sees from my point of view that i download her music mainly because i enjoy listening to it, being that i am... I AM a fan (big or small)! I downloaded her music, and i paid for burning each and every song i placed in a CD-R. jus so i can listen to it elsewhere. i dont know where that money goes to, but at least i dont have a guilty conscience of "stealing" it when it gets burned. And guess what? i bought her CD and Concert DVD! even after downloading! not everybody buys a CD after ripping it, but im one of many MANY people who do.

Im a fan of music. I have a broad horizon of what i like in terms of music genre, and i speak for anyone who agrees with me when i say i love Alizee, and i'll forever enjoy listening to her...(and watching her)...no matter what.

FIN

Dotty, you kick ass...

play nice

who are you, his right hand man? like he cant speak for himself

oh shit you can feel the love. im with dotty old man. im sorry RMJ but you come off sounding like a whining baby

not pirating guys just sharing ,just sharing.

Yes, we already concluded that those who does nothing about this don't care. That's the problem.

So brad is your god and you do only like he says ? And not listen to your heart ? Not use your own common sense ? Have no sense of moral ?

And you support them every time when you do nothing to them.

I have done it many times already. And most of the offending content has been removed very rapidly, you most likely never even noticed them. Few videos are left that breaks her copyrights but they were left here in agreement. I still don't like to see them here but they are left to make good for her so I can live with it. He would never want to hurt her.


So, you DID buy her music ! So this conversation concerns you. It was about those who just steals her music. People who don't care about her and comes here to promote their ideas. To the one place that should be sacred, her fan board. The place where the fans wants to support her all the possible ways. They don't understand that it physically hurts some of us when they hurts her.

We can't change them and we can't change people outside here but we should not also tolerate those here. If they wants to get the music free they can do it else where. Behind our backs. Behind Alizée's back.

lol wtf are u talking about? i dont do anything about it, so i support them too?

i do believe that Alizee-Forum has oxyshare links to download the whole dvd. you should go there to bitch and moan

No it does not have and never will.

RMJ,

Have you ever wondered why all major record labels these days are putting their music videos on sites like Myspace and youtube? It's because it promotes the artist and increases the number of people who are interested in buying the artist's music and going to concerts.

I first discovered Alizée because one of my friends gave me some pirated mp3s. Because of that copyright infringement I have since bought all her albums and her DVD, also I've written the WIkipedia article about her (Soumyasch and me together that is). The videos on this site are similar: they introduce new people to Alizée and so when her new album comes out hopefully they will buy it. Of course nobody on this forum wants to hurt Alizée, and I think that by promoting her to America and other markets we are helping her.

I don't think anyone would argue that downloading a little bit to see what something's like is wrong (except a few nuts in the Recording Industry). This is how practically all of us discovered Alizée. It's only bad if you like it and then don't buy anything afterward.

I agree with Dotty that it's not our place to go around policing such things, but I also agree with RMJ that it doesn't belong on this board. And as members of this community, we have a perfect right to say so.

sure it does. you should find it and delete it, since you are also a mod on that site

I can confirm that it does NOT. You may be thinking of the Une Fee Nomme DVD, which is a fan-made collection of TV clips.

People have tried to post links to the DVD on AF before, and we've deleted them immediately.

oh........lol