Gourmandises: Mylène Farmer and the Truth of the Song
 

There is speculation that Gourmandises written by Mylène Farmer is very controversial. It is said the song is based on the Little Red Riding Hood story, whose true meaning is more well known in France where the tale originated. There are claims the end of the Gourmandises video holds clues.

Below are some quotes about the strange mind of Mylène Farmer and a quote from a University of Virginia professor about the French story Little Red Riding Hood (Le Petit Chaperon Rouge). The description of Le Petit Chaperon Rouge by the professor sounds a lot like the song.

Is there any truth in the web speculation, or is it just silly nonsense that people read into a simple song?

It's very well known that Gourmandises is a sexual story about a girl going on a trip to meet a stranger. I should and still be known as the biggest Gourmandises-fan ever lived or is still living. So this looks quite appealing to read and so I did.

It could be very well influenced by little red riding hood, seeing as both stories are revolving around a stranger ( sheep in wolfclothes ) to lure the prey and take her virginity.

This is a nice find, where did you get this from so suddenly?

We had a member in here years ago who was from Montreal. A member who seemed to be very intelligent and well learned in both the English and French languages. If memory serves me correctly, he was of the opinion that every song written for Alizée had some sexual connotation and of course we are talking about the two highly successful albums MF and LB wrote for Alizée.

Now except for the song Tempete which was a song about Napoleon, It would be no shock to me if that was true, because it was said of MF that she designed a sex toy, then wrote a song about it. Now I'm no expert on Mylene, but from what I've seen of her and heard about her, I think her and Laurant are incredibly talented; they went to college together and studied the arts together and are incredibly gifted, but there is no doubt they used sex to sell.

Now I think there is no doubt that these songs may have had a very nice side to them and then a very sexual side. That's an ability in song writing Mylene had. I think in some cases Alizée knew there was a risqué side to them and had no problem singing them, until she grew up and realized that there was a very controversial side to what she was doing, (something she never would have had a part in) until Jeremy came along and gave her the rest of the story.

So we can look at these songs in the very controversial way MF intended, or we can look at these songs in the way that Alizée saw them and that's what I think we should do as a forum. We should be able to realize they were something "beyond" what Alizée knew and we should look upon them in the beautiful way and sometimes sexy way, that Alizée interpreted them.

I just did a web search on the translation.

Great find, Zingy

I have always wondered if Alizee split with MF because MF's life style and values were more than Alizee could handle. When they split, I'm sure they both signed a nondisclosure contract, so we will never know the details of their breakup.

From what I've heard and I have no idea if this is right, Jeremy not only told Alizée of the deeper sexuality of her songs, but also mentioned that Alizée should have been making much more money than she had been making. I don't profess in any way to know what the true story is, but I have to believe the way Alizée ended her career in early 2004, that there has to be, some credibility, to this story

It's very clear that Mylene and Alizée disbanded because of the sexual double-sided lyrics that she has been singing for the past 5 years, beeing to young to know what she was actually singing about. Also the fact that Alizée was just a product of a producer and a composer, she wanted to step out of the shadows and not be attached to Mylene her success and prove she could do it without them.

And she did very well until she colaborated with people I never heard of and I haven't heard of before. The song Gourmandises is about losing virginity and going on that dangerous trip that you are to young for.

This is a controversial subject and I'd like to make a "suggestion" that we hold off discussing it until the day after Christmas. Even if you don't believe in this holiday, it's a time of year that many people enjoy, including Alizée, so for these few days, let's have no controversy and no fighting. The day after, the store's open for business.

Relax scruffy. In my Kingdom where I rule there will be no fighting on Gourmandisesday

I have a feeling in your Kingdom, everyday is Gourmandisesday.

You mean on Boxing Day. :D

I've got some free time this morning, so here I am. Bon natale Alizée !

Personally I love the song because Alizée sings it. I love every song she sings. It's easy to believe the childlike innocence myth that Mylene created around Alizée but 15 years later we've learned more about Alizée and can see through that. She said in an interview waaay back that her songs had a side for the 'little ones' and one for adults. Her parents knew it, she's a smart girl, she knew it too. She also said eventually that the genre of music she was making was not the kind she listened to, so I think she left after the 2003-4 tour to move away from that. She never returned to anything even slightly 'popish' until it was too late.

For all I know, Mylène and Laurent encouraged Alizée to read "Lolita" so that the latter would know what the song was about. If Mylène made no bones about it, then I see no reason why she should intentionally keep Alizée in the dark of the "adult" meaning behind her lyrics, nor can I even begin to imagine Alizée being blind to the sexual allure her entire stage persona was imbued with. But well, no actual interviews that could shed light on the issue come into my mind :( . I mean, interviews that mention the manyfold meanings of her Gourmandises/MCE lyrics (besides the fact that Alizée would describe to Mylène her personality, things she's fond of etc. and Mylène would write lyrics based on that material). However, it doesn't necessarily mean she didn't know; maybe analysing lyrics wasn't something fun to do, maybe she just didn't find it important, maybe it was Mylène who aimed to create that "childlike innocence myth" (that IMHO wasn't really plausible, it was not 1966). I can only vaguely remember an interview from the 5 era in which Lilly said she preferred easily understandable lyrics to double entendres. (I'll try to retrieve it if I have the time to do it.) I'd be also really keen to read the interview Ray4AJ is talking about, unless it's the same one.

Well Jazzmin, it took me an hour to find this. I think there was an older one that mentioned the 'little ones' but it's mentioned here in this Psyche era interview, among other things. The last Q&A that I quoted below seems to show that she likes that MCE had fewer of the double meanings than Gourmandises.

http://alizeeamerica.com/forums/show...93&postcount=4

I still think there was an early interview where she acknowledged the double meanings in her albums, but I'm not going to search for it right now.

EDIT_

Okay, I did find the earlier reference I was thinking about. See these screenshots from Alizee - 2003-06-03 - Interview - Une Heure Avec Alizee.

Interviewer Question
http://i.imgur.com/YmtPTTNm.png

Alizée
http://i.imgur.com/Wp8GA7rm.pnghttp://i.imgur.com/dmELUzKm.pnghttp://i.imgur.com/afrb3QYm.pnghttp://i.imgur.com/N4exMJum.pnghttp://i.imgur.com/qcPcZ7pm.png

Below is an example of one of Mylene Farmer's songs with weird double meanings.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CBdFgbmBaA

I watched this video and I have a "feeling" that it's typical of a lot of her songs, that many people feel have a sexual meaning to them, but I think in a court of law, you'd have a tough time proving your case, but I'm guessing in some of her other songs, it would be a quick guilty as charged.

I've written before that it was said, she designed her own sex toy, then wrote a song about it (Sextonik). She even sold vibrators at one of her concerts.There's no doubt she uses sex to sell.

Now garconcanadien who was mentioned earlier if memory serves me correctly obviously was from Canada and I believe he was a medical student and I believe he was fluent in French though I'm far from certain on that. He at the time, made a post that had "interpretations" of many of Alizee's early songs made by Anthony. I don't remember much about Anthony so I don't know how qualified he was to do interpretations, but I think if garcon.... was posting his interpretations, they may have been credible.

Now in this post that had several interpretations, the song J'en ai marre was listed, but it was mentioned that this was R rated and it was not by Anthony. It didn't say if it was garcon's interpretation or someone else's.

It's a very controversial interpretation. I wont even post a link to it because even with my limited French, I feel that it could be way off base. I think members if they so choose should look for it and realize it is the view of some people, but I think this "forum" does not want it reposted.

I've seen different interpretations of this song and all I'm going to say at this point is I'm fairly certain there was no gold fish in the tub with her.

Now depending upon what version of Alizée 101 you've read, Alizée knew of the general sexual meaning of some of these song, but it's been said Jeremy came along and explained to her the deeper meanings of a song such as this interpretation of jam and this was "one" thing that led to her decision to leave MF. I have no idea if that's true, but it would kind of explain what seemed to be a sudden decision to leave MF when it was rumored Amelie would be the next single.

As I mentioned in another thread, I've spoken in person with RMJ when I met him a couple times in Europe. I have issues with him but he is very knowledgeable about Alizée. He was of the opinion that she was upset with MF and one of the reasons for the long absence after the concerts, was that she was actually under contract to do 3 albums with MF and the only way to get out of it was to wait so many years.

Moi Lolita is another controversial song and not so much for the original story which Alizée and her family knew was of a sexual nature, but for some of the lyrics which seemed to have been cleansed by so many translations of the lyrics into English and I'd like to bring attention to the lines...
Et quand je donne ma longue aux chats
A line which I've read can have a very innocent meaning, but remember this was MF writing the lyrics and the controversy was in what you interpreted "chats" to mean.
Quand je reve aux loups, c'est Lola qui saigne.
That's something that I think is relatively easy to interpret, but it seems so many sites that offer you English lyrics of the song, get it wrong.

There was also a member in here who was from Montreal. He was fluent in French. It seemed his main goal in here is he wanted to discuss the sexual meaning he thought was present in just about all her songs. We talked many times via pm. I discussed in the moderators forum that he wanted to be able to discuss this in the forum, but it was the view of the mods, that we had a lot of younger members and for that reason it was decided not to have a thread about that topic. It was discussed also if maybe there might be a way for members to discuss this in a private way, but that didn't seem doable, so it was dropped.

Now I'm assuming this is still a policy of this forum. We have to be careful what we discuss. I encourage members, at least adult members to do research, to know what's out there, but I'm sure "we" will still limit what is said in here, especially where so much of this is subject to interpretation.

The Sextonik was sold in a coffin. Perhaps the meaning of this is that although the French are obsessed with sex, they do not produce children. So what is in the box cannot bring reproduction. Use would be the end of the line of ancestry. It would be an analogy of the French people that are going extinct.

http://static.fnac-static.com/multim...753/1507-1.jpg

Those are some interesting thoughts. I'm certainly no expert on MF. I've listened to many of her songs in the hope they might do for me what her Alizée songs did for me, but that never happened. I've read different stories on her here and there, but there is a hell of a lot more I don't know, than I do know, but one thing I'm sure of is she used sex to sell.

I'm also sure there might be a lot more double meanings in songs from Alizee's first two albums. I'm aware of the more obvious ones, but I don't really want to look into the ones that may have been better hidden. I'm very happy with the way I think Alizée interpreted them. That's just my opinion but if others in here want to keep discussing them, as long as it falls within the guide lines of the forum, go right ahead.

We don't know what pushed her over the edge with regards to leaving Mylene, however, she has stated that she did not know "all" the double meanings at the time, and that Jeremy did give her a more complete perspective.


This is my understanding as well that she may have had to wait for this reason. However, I believe it was the record company, not Mylene, who's contract required the wait. :)

Hey Rev,
I "think" you made a small typo. In your first statement you said "she stated that she did now know.......". I think you meant "did not know". Is that the case?

Going back to Alizée 101. Mylene sold the right back to her of using her own name for a ceremonial $1. I can't remember in what year that was. Was that also the time that what ever contract she was under expired?

I don't believe there was some contract.

If she wanted to leave Mylene, I think it would be weird to have already a contract for new album. It was just half year after her tour, the dvd was still not released, and there was planned a promo for the dvd (Amelie M'a Dit), but it ended only with clip from concert and promo cd.

If the possible contract was made in the second half of 2004, there was already one thing sure - Annily. She was born on April 2005, so +- in August 2004 Alizée knew she is waiting a baby. Why she would make a contract, when she is waiting a baby, and she knows she will be not able to work on new album? And then the risk of possible penalties. Hard to imagine Mylene or Universal to make something against Alizée, but nobody knows.

I think simply there was planned promo for the dvd, maybe some singing of the Amelie Ma Dit, but cause Alizée's pregnancy everything was stopped, and later both sides decided for end. Alizée had time for her baby, and later when she decided to come back to music, she started to solve the thing with her stage name. If there would be really some problem between her and Mylene, I dont think Mylene would give her stage name just for 1€. And then, we cant forget that the first copy of Psychedelices was sent to Mylene.

Alizée talked about Mylene always in the best way, plus the last interview with Pascal Negro (boss of Universal Music) where he stated "If at any point there is no trust between the record company and the artist, it is better to stop it. At that time, it gets complicated and it is useless" or "Alizee was 16, then she turned 18 ... and at some point, there may have been an adolescent crisis, perhaps a desire to exist ... It is perhaps a bit too stuffy to be in the shadow of Mylène Farmer. There may be lots of things. It does not shock me!"

I think he was right... Alizée was in the shadow, she and her songs were product of Mylene, and I think that was the main problem.

Just updated my earlier post...

>>>http://alizeeamerica.com/forums/show...8&postcount=14

http://i.imgur.com/qcPcZ7pm.png

I can't believe Alizée would put her career at hazard simply because she was in the shadow of Mylene. I question whether Alizee even felt she was in Mylene's shadow. Nothing in her character suggests an ego so grand that she could not tolerate Mylene getting credit for the role she played in Alizee's success. On the other hand if Alizée felt she was being cheated financially and/or if she came to a point where she simply could not stand being around Mylene for personal reasons, it's not difficult for me to see her wanting to end the relationship at any cost. The reason that Alizée has given for the breakup (that she wanted to try the music of other artists) might have played a role, but doesn't ring true to me as THE reason for their divorce. I think there is much more to it.

What distresses me most right now is that Alizee--for whatever reason--has all but disappeared from public view. It also mystifies me as to why I care so much. I've been a fan of many pop stars, but never so involved with them as Alizee. Artists come and go, and I rarely notice their absence.

Well I think there absolutely had to be a contract. It's just good business sense. Mylene started working with Alizée when she was 15. What if they were 1/2 way through the first album and Alizée said I'm tired of this and want to go back to my home and my friends or if with that first album, she became an overnight success which she did, she could have easily gone to some other record company offering her more money. Or what if half way through that first album, MF said this isn't working, go back to Corsica and hopefully your dropping out of school wont damage your chances for a good education.

Both parties need protection. I'm sure there was a contract and I'm no expert on contracts, but I think RMJ was probably right in that it was for 3 albums. That seems to give each party an adequate amount of protection.

With the pictures and the captions Ray posted, as opposed to Moi Lolita which MF apparently got the approval of her parents to sing it and knew well what the story was about, with the other songs, it looks like the meaning of each song wasn't explained very well to her and she only started to understand the other meanings of the other songs, the more and more she sang them, but I'm sure she still didn't understand the fuller "alleged" meanings of these songs.

As far as disappearing from public view. I think after her separation from Jeremy, her fans were an important part of her life. There was a big void there and her fans helped to fill it. Now that void has hopefully been permanently refilled and as a direct result, there's not as much communication with us. It's only natural. She has a full life now, hopefully she wont forget about her fans the way she did back in 2004.

In the same interview I was 'quoting' last night, she also talks about the song Moi... Lolita and the book Lolita. I didn't pay much attention to it last night since it wasn't the part I was looking for but I went back it tonight to see what she said. Something about what she said had me wondering how well she was seeing the big picture at the time. Rather than post screen caps, I cut and pasted the subtitles from the part in question.

http://i.imgur.com/5utLU2Mm.png

You are correct. Thanks for spotting the error Scruffy. :)


Close to the same time. She probably mentioned it several months after the supposed time when the contract expired. She said that Mylene had protected her stage name. Fans had debated about how much Mylene had charged, but Alizée eventually cleared the air and said she sold it to her for one euro.

This would not have been a ceremonial amount. In doing business, Mylene received value in the exchange, thus making it a valid contract.

That Mylene sold Alizee's stage name back to her for one euro doesn't sound hostile. She could have demanded a huge sum.

Seeing how we are discussing the MF/Alizée partnership for lack of a better word, for those who are relatively new to Alizée 101, there was a rumor after Psych came out that there was a line on one of the songs that was sort of a snub directed at MF. I have no idea there's any truth to it or what song they are talking about. I never really cared to look into it. But as close as these 2 were for over 3 years, I don't know if they've ever gotten together even in a social manner since. If they have, it's been few and far between.

EDIT:

For those who haven't heard of this rumor before, this is from Alizee forum where apparently Orion did a translation of a magazine article and this is part of what it said.
"......We will first be able to state that Alizee has really integrated the marketing concepts that her ex-spiritual mother inculcated in her, because the secret about the new album was almost completely sealed for three years, with just what was needed to calm down the breeze to create a buzz at the end of the ride: rumours of there being difficulties for the Alizee-Chatelain couple to sign on to a record company, conjecture about

a false rivalry between Mylene and Alizee and about a hypothetical song insulting Farmer Idealiser, some lines being available on the Internet but quickly banned under penalty of arrest, an official denial on the little one........"

Now I'd like to point out it says 'false' rivalry and and a 'hypothetical' song insulting Farmer which means in their eyes they were just rumors, but I'm just trying to prove my point that those rumors were out there.

http://www.alizee-forum.com/content....7-12&langid=16

I would at least like Alizée to speak about these things from her days with Mylene, possibly after Mylene passes on, so as not to bring up things causing either side more possible trouble that they don't need or want.

With all the speculation and mystery surrounding the earlier days of Alizée's success, I think it would make interesting reading, at least for those of us who lived through these times.

Heyo, every Alizée's song in the first two albums has an sexual connotation?

We used to have a member here who was from Quebec and knew the French language very well. He said pretty much the same thing that every song on those first two albums had a sexual connotation and considering the songs were written by Mylene Farmer, that wouldn't surprise me in the least.

I'm sure Alizée was aware of some of it, but I think there is a lot she wasn't aware of. Rumors back then and I stress 'rumors' were Alizee's deciding to leave MF/LB was partly because she found out what those other meanings were.

But we will only go so far in what we'll allow to be discussed in here. If you want to discuss it in pm, be my guest.

Sure! I'm not english native but today or tomorrow i'll pm you for sure! <3:bye:

Hi Edsel, welcome to the forum!

I think Scruffy fielded your question nicely. I think people tend to hear what they want to hear out of any lyrics. Alizee even said there was a meaning for children and a meaning for adults. I've read translations for many of the songs. Hey! Amigo! does not strike me as a sexually charged song, but you know there are people who would interpret every line that way. I just choose not to overanalyze it to that point and just enjoy the music.

No worries about the language, we've had many members over the years from many different countries and if you're not sure how to word something in a post, you can pm us beforehand for help.

and as CleverCowboy said......Welcome to the forum.

Welcome to the forum!:) Don't worry; my English is not too good either.:D

Probably i don't overthink any song because i'm a beginner in french hahah

Anyways, my favorite song is J'en ai marre even though lately i'm listening to Toc de mac a loot cause it's a good song tho (i said this cause we're talking about lyrics and stuff haha)

Well, if you know more than 20 French words, you are further along than I am! :)

You will notice that we abbreviate song names a lot also. J'en ai marre is often referred to as just JEM.

Totally optional, but there is a thread entitled "How did you discover Alizee?" that a lot of new members post their story. It's a good way that new members can give some background information. If the mood strikes you, you can find the thread here:

http://alizeeamerica.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4611

this thread is awesome, i really like it

i'm starting to think on the sexual connotation of toc de mac hahaha even though it's pretty obvious at least talking about toc de mac

I don't know, maybe a little double-barreled thing... :13::13:

I focus and in general I have had time to focus on Alizée’s amazing sexiness, which she exudes in her performances!! :p:p:p:pAnd fortunately those moments are many!!:wub::scrunch::wub::scrunch:

But that even the lyrics of the song offer it... :confused::) Well that's (pretty) obvious, even if you don't always know about those French!? :w:

I think it’s actually a pretty good thing, :yay: everyone can decide how they want to interpret the songs... :) Doesn’t that just prove that they are good songs! :clap: ;):cool: :clap: