Other sites...

[wildfire]

I found this one, a Farmer site with a forum on Lilly..

http://www.mf-international.com/viewforum.php?f=1

I havent seen this vid:

http://www.mf-international.com/viewtopic.php?t=4241

link to vid:
http://rapidshare.com/files/97006545....2008.MPG.html

this one also had dls of her vids...

http://forums.superiorpics.com/ubbth...rmances_240_Ca

hey can anyone translate this video?

[Chuck]

Originally Posted by wildfire

hey can anyone translate this video?

This is what you want translated? Who sent you???!!

Basically, the vid in question was posted by someone who loves Mylene and doesn't care at all for Alizee. Apparently, a lot of Mylene fans feel that way, even some that had been Alizee fans once, too.

I'm skipping the first 60 seconds, it's all intro saying "tonight on '100% Mag' we're looking at - famous pygmalions!"

(By pygmalions, they mean stars created by other stars. That's what it says on the bottom of the screen before you hit 'play': "People: Stars who make Stars".)

_________

Announcer: "...and it was on the 'Graines de Stars' that Mylene discovered her little girl. She saw her 'future star' before the world."

Laurent Boyer, presenter: "Never could one have imagined [such talent], but she was already just about ready. (...) She just needed work. The work came from Mylene Farmer"

(Lolita clip plays)

Announcer: "There's Alizee, in front of friends and acquaintances. And then look - the spectacular transformation (still showing the lolita clip btw), followed by success! She sells millions of records and the rest, all made by Mylene Farmer."

Fat Guy: "Mylene wanted to have Alizee become, a little bit, her thing... uhh... [She said] if there's anything I can do, she will do it in my place."

Announcer: "One day, she decided to pick up her things, and told her mentors that their contract with their pygmalion was over."

(50/60 clip plays)

Announcer: "She waited 4 years to return, but now it wasn't easy. Success did not come to meet her. Deprived of the Farmer machine, her reign goes no more."

Fat Guy: "In the reality of the moment for Alizee, it's difficult to still try and continue, hanging on a thread with her people, and without the support of Mylene Farmer it is difficult."

Announcer: "4 million discs sold with Farmer, only 50,000 alone, the artist (Alizee) further jeopardized herself when she put several shows on the fire in France."


(fin.)
_________


It's kinda sick, and not in a good way. It's just a piece of "puff journalism" to fill some airtime, so they took a couple quotes from another announcer and the nameless Fat Guy, then they tried to prove that Alizee screwed up by striking out on her own. Unfortunately, a lot of French folks do seem to see it that way. Helped by this kind of garbage. Two people of the same mindset rated this clip, both gave 5 stars.

And this was just aired in June! Sad. Go away now, wildfire, you've ruined my evening. Wait! Bring me beer.

[wildfire]

I thought it was something to that extent...

Thank you for the translation.. well. as you know, they must be right because the press is never wrong...

To make up for it, I found this little gem on the internet... its a video shot rom the front of the stage in mexico I believe... quality not so good, but she still sparkles!


http://rapidshare.com/files/12638856...rre_by-RMJ.rar

[Chuck]

You're very welcome, wildfire. Actually, it didn't really ruin my eve, it was good practice. And I'm only claiming about 94% accuracy, the two "talking heads" were kinda mushmouthed in parts.

But I'm still waiting for that beer! loq.

[wildfire]

I hope its not too much a case of hubris on Alizee's part: much of what made her successful was the polish and guidance that Mylene gave her. However I think it was foolish for Mylene to think that she would stay with her forever. We all know how business like this work and there will be people who want Alizee to fail.. thats too bad.. because its one less unique artist out there. I like her new rock stuff, I do miss the syrupy syth stuff from before. I also miss the quieter stuff which featured her voice more like "Cœur déjà pris","Lui ou Toi", "À quoi rêve une jeune fille", "Tempête"... I think the softer stuff works with her breathy voice (which french was OBVIOUSLY designed for ).. the hard rock stuff strains her a bit...

Originally Posted by Chuck

You're very welcome, wildfire. Actually, it didn't really ruin my eve, it was good practice. And I'm only claiming about 94% accuracy, the two "talking heads" were kinda mushmouthed in parts.

But I'm still waiting for that beer! loq.

How about "Beer you an Hear with your Ear!"

[Chuck]

Dam#, wildfire, yes, this is awesome. Awesome bière, bien sûr! Gracias!!

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/-FlV6H8kxNA&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/-FlV6H8kxNA&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
.
.
.
.
True, Mylène gave Alizée "polish and guidance" as you say. But what if Mylène was a bit of a "jealous stepmother", who didn't expect to be so upstaged by Lilly's first hits. So from then on she helped Alizée succeed, but only to a certain point, and then proceeded to make her protégée look more and more foolish for the next few years?....

Just a theory, s'all.

btw, the first "head" in the top clip, Laurent Boyer, was indeed the host on Graines de Star in 2000. I'd thought so, wasn't sure, checked, and now it doesn't even seem all that helpful. Never mind.

[Chuck]

Okay, I'm sorry. A few days ago, I threw a stinkbomb in the middle of the ballroom floor here.

Originally Posted by Chuck

True, Mylène gave Alizée "polish and guidance" as you say. But what if Mylène was a bit of a "jealous stepmother", who didn't expect to be so upstaged by Lilly's first hits. So from then on she helped Alizée succeed, but only to a certain point, and then proceeded to make her protégée look more and more foolish for the next few years?....

Just a theory, s'all.

And then I ran off, and nobody else said much for a couple days. (Out of politeness?) Then Wildfire remarked that "the student had left the teacher", and next thing y'know, Jess and Deep and Lefty are all hot and bothered! And Wildfire's just trying to keep the peace...

So what's the issue? I hinted that perhaps Mylene had limited and/or controlled Alizee's career. That perhaps she was not the ideal, selfless mentor we hear about.

Do I believe this notion? No! It's a theory! A "conspiracy theory", true, but it's not like it's a "9/11-" or "Area-51-scale" conspiracy. No corpses, sorry. Small potatoes? Or a prurient tale about the seamy underbelly of the music business in France? Maybe you should decide for yourselves, dear readers!


So I tossed out that theory, and it led to a heated discussion of whether Alizee left Mylene prematurely. Most of us seem to agree that she was right to go, it was the right time for her to move on. And we all assume that she somehow convinced Mylene to gracefully let her out of her contract, right? Or maybe some of us suspect that Alizee broke their contract by refusing to work for Mylene anymore?

I MEAN, THINK ABOUT IT: WHAT WAS ON THAT CONTRACT?

Seriously. It was a contract for how long? 5, 6, 7 years? During which Alizee could only perform or record songs written by Mylene & Laurent (or expressly approved by them). She had to wear what Mylene told her to wear, go where Mylene told her to go.... All right, I'm overspeculating here, but you all know what we're looking at here--your ordinary, run-of-the-mill CONTRACT WITH THE DEVIL!!!!!

So do we suppose that Mylene would have politely let Alizee out of such a deal? Okay, maybe. Or maybe not.



LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, LET'S CONSIDER, FOR A MOMENT, THE SOURCE OF ALL THIS CONJECTURE. I CALL TO THE WITNESS STAND, ALIZEE!

Okay, I'm grandstanding and dreaming at the same time, she's not really here. But if she was, she would nimbly prove to all assembled that she is a person of character, of integrity, of great talent, and great depth of soul. A young woman with a lot of spirit and a lot of class. She again denies ever having spoken ill of Mylene or of their arrangement. Thank you, Miss Alizee, you may step down.


FOR EXHIBIT "A", I'd like to point out that in her earliest recorded performances, before signing with Mylene, Miss Jacotey appears rather boyish, even tomboyish. In all her songs on TV, she wears pants.


FOR EXHIBIT "B", let me again mention that "some people" had spread chatter about Alizee seeming ungrateful. I'm not trying to say this gossip is evidence, rather, it's the fact that this gossip exists. People have been saying derogatory stuff about Lilly. I'm curious why? Since when? And who starts these kinds of rumors?


FOR EXHIBIT "C": Under "misc..", Wildfire had recently posted an online chat with Alizee from 12/07. In it, people asked about her split from Mylene. "Alizée: These are just rumors, we parted on very good terms. Mylène is someone I like very much, I also respect and above all it was she who taught me everything and I'm not here today if we had not met."

So where did the "ungrateful" stuff come from?


Ladies and Gents, direct your attention to EXHIBIT "D" -- PSYCHEDÉLICES. The album.

It's a great work, and very ambitious. Maybe over-ambitious. A lot of variety, a lot of fun songs. But then there's a couple real downers, right in the middle! (like somebody tossing a stinkbomb, almost). What I'm referring to is these two: "Jamais Plus" and "Psychedélices" (the title song). Admit it, upon first hearing those, we were all surprised Alizee could go to such dark places....

I'm saying that those two songs could be interpreted as not-so-polite "goodby" songs* from Alizee directed at Mylene. I don't say that was Alizee's intention (let's say it may or may not have been) . I'm merely pointing out that those two songs could be taken as such, and that's what might have made radio stations "boycott" the album.

In "JAMAIS PLUS", she sings of someone she'd just broken up with. Then they died. And she's never going to see them again, and she doesn't even seem to care, except in one way-- at the end, the words suddenly change to "tu m'as foutu", you left me f*d up.

Then comes "PSYCHEDÉLICES", a contender for the bluest blues ever written. A scathing indictment of some person with a very dark outlook. Someone who's wrapped in pain, and using drugs, someone who's dying from his/her self-pity. And in this song, the only sympathy the singer offers comes in this verse: "Gifted with flight, the bird excites your jealousy, Close the shutters, you could kill yourself for it..."

NOW I KNOW ALIZEE DIDN'T WRITE THOSE WORDS. I'm not even suggesting that she was aware of this possible interpretation. I'm merely pointing out that those songs could be construed as being nasty kissoffs. Toward somebody. (who knows, maybe they were even meant to be tributes to Mylene, but they backfired!) But if you're looking at it in the conspiratorial light, even the cover photo (having her cake and eating it) could be construed as Alizee thumbing her nose at Mylene.....

CONJECTURE, CONJECTURE... remember, this is all for amusement purposes only.

But didn't fans expect at least one or two songs on Psych would've come from Mylene? Perhaps even Mylene herself had expected to be asked, à la Shatner. If so, then this negligence may have also been seen as an offense.

SO WHAT HAVE WE PROVED? Nothing. Except that when Psych came out, it added a lot of fuel to the rumor fires. It gave people a lot of reasons to start saying things. I think that those rumors, combined with radio programmers fears of controversy, are what prevented this wonderful music from attaining commercial success.


WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? Simply: THIS TIME, THOSE RUMORS SHOULD ALL BE IN THE PAST! i think that means that if Alizee's new album is even halfway decent, better airplay and better sales will be almost assured.



So the question remaining is the nagging one, the same one I hinted at first. Was Alizee's welfare and future career perhaps not Mylene's top concern? Did Alizee have reason to be ungrateful? And is it possible that she maybe even let a little bitterness escape? In a couple "sly" ways? Well, even if that were the case, that will all be behind her now, too--see WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?, above.



* - "GOODBYE" SONGS: historical examples include some real putdowns. Lennon's "How Do You Sleep" (for McCartney), the Stones "Had It With You" (for Bill Wyman), Neil Young's "Walk On" (to Skynyrd)...

[Ben]

Originally Posted by Chuck

But didn't fans expect at least one or two songs on Psych would've come from Mylene? Perhaps even Mylene herself had expected to be asked, à la Shatner. If so, then this negligence may have also been seen as an offense.

The idea might have been tossed around, but I don't think anyone was really expecting that. As with their other collaborations (Nathalie Cardone, Lisa, etc.), it seems to be all or nothing with Mylene and Laurent, and they're more likely to act as producers than writers for hire. It probably wouldn't have been the best choice for Alizée either, artistically (if she wanted to make a clean break) or "politically" (media focus on those few songs to the detriment of others).

I don't think Alizée will ever really be out of Mylene's shadow in France until Mylene herself stops making headlines. She just played two huge sold-out stadium shows in Paris, for example, and that's too big an audience for the media to ignore. On the positive side, this could make foreign markets like the US all the more appealing to Alizée.

[wildfire]

Originally Posted by Chuck

FOR EXHIBIT "A", I'd like to point out that in her earliest recorded performances, before signing with Mylene, Miss Jacotey appears rather boyish, even tomboyish. In all her songs on TV, she wears pants.

Don't forget "sings nasally"... oh she was so adorable in her rawness. Alizee was quoted somewhere as saying that she usually preferred pants over dresses, too. She also said that she was "dressing the part".. yeah Mylene cleaned her up and boy, does Alizee "clean up" so nicely. I thought her Tomboyish aspect was more a manifestation of an inner strength that wasn't too apparent in her shyness.

Originally Posted by Chuck

FOR EXHIBIT "B", let me again mention that "some people" had spread chatter about Alizee seeming ungrateful. I'm not trying to say this gossip is evidence, rather, it's the fact that this gossip exists. People have been saying derogatory stuff about Lilly. I'm curious why? Since when? And who starts these kinds of rumors?

You can see that she was going through her rebellious stage in 2003 both in her music and her personal clothes.... and this may simply be in the form of self expressing rather than any sort of actual behavior. I doubt theres anything Mylene couldn't handle, being the vet that she was. It is a shame that Alizee and Mylene don't really speak now.

Originally Posted by Chuck

FOR EXHIBIT "C": Under "misc..", Wildfire had recently posted an online chat with Alizee from 12/07. In it, people asked about her split from Mylene. "Alizée: These are just rumors, we parted on very good terms. Mylène is someone I like very much, I also respect and above all it was she who taught me everything and I'm not here today if we had not met."

So where did the "ungrateful" stuff come from?

I mean the girl cried at her first award show and at Stars à Domicile 1 (I still cry when I see that!), hardly a sense of entitlement for this kid, let alone ungrateful. She wasn't a kid that sat around, watching TV, waiting for her fame to come. She was dancing most of her life, even heading choreography for some of her school shows, did some of hr own costumes, she would sometimes have surprise acts or moves at her school shows.. and had said that she wanted to be a dance instructor for kids when she grew up. She was also quoted as someone who really didn't ned to be prompted to do her schoolwork. Aside from any usualy behavior that comes from the chemistry set that is a kid's hormone at that age, I don't see any signs of an ungrateful person.

Originally Posted by Chuck

Ladies and Gents, direct your attention to EXHIBIT "D" -- PSYCHEDÉLICES. The album.

It's a great work, and very ambitious. Maybe over-ambitious. A lot of variety, a lot of fun songs. But then there's a couple real downers, right in the middle! (like somebody tossing a stinkbomb, almost). What I'm referring to is these two: "Jamais Plus" and "Psychedélices" (the title song). Admit it, upon first hearing those, we were all surprised Alizee could go to such dark places....

I'm saying that those two songs could be interpreted as not-so-polite "goodby" songs* from Alizee directed at Mylene. I don't say that was Alizee's intention (let's say it may or may not have been) . I'm merely pointing out that those two songs could be taken as such, and that's what might have made radio stations "boycott" the album.

In "JAMAIS PLUS", she sings of someone she'd just broken up with. Then they died. And she's never going to see them again, and she doesn't even seem to care, except in one way-- at the end, the words suddenly change to "tu m'as foutu", you left me f*d up.

Then comes "PSYCHEDÉLICES", a contender for the bluest blues ever written. A scathing indictment of some person with a very dark outlook. Someone who's wrapped in pain, and using drugs, someone who's dying from his/her self-pity. And in this song, the only sympathy the singer offers comes in this verse: "Gifted with flight, the bird excites your jealousy, Close the shutters, you could kill yourself for it..."

NOW I KNOW ALIZEE DIDN'T WRITE THOSE WORDS. I'm not even suggesting that she was aware of this possible interpretation. I'm merely pointing out that those songs could be construed as being nasty kissoffs. Toward somebody. (who knows, maybe they were even meant to be tributes to Mylene, but they backfired!) But if you're looking at it in the conspiratorial light, even the cover photo (having her cake and eating it) could be construed as Alizee thumbing her nose at Mylene.....

CONJECTURE, CONJECTURE... remember, this is all for amusement purposes only.

But didn't fans expect at least one or two songs on Psych would've come from Mylene? Perhaps even Mylene herself had expected to be asked, à la Shatner. If so, then this negligence may have also been seen as an offense.

SO WHAT HAVE WE PROVED? Nothing. Except that when Psych came out, it added a lot of fuel to the rumor fires. It gave people a lot of reasons to start saying things. I think that those rumors, combined with radio programmers fears of controversy, are what prevented this wonderful music from attaining commercial success.


WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? Simply: THIS TIME, THOSE RUMORS SHOULD ALL BE IN THE PAST! i think that means that if Alizee's new album is even halfway decent, better airplay and better sales will be almost assured.



So the question remaining is the nagging one, the same one I hinted at first. Was Alizee's welfare and future career perhaps not Mylene's top concern? Did Alizee have reason to be ungrateful? And is it possible that she maybe even let a little bitterness escape? In a couple "sly" ways? Well, even if that were the case, that will all be behind her now, too--see WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?, above.



* - "GOODBYE" SONGS: historical examples include some real putdowns. Lennon's "How Do You Sleep" (for McCartney), the Stones "Had It With You" (for Bill Wyman), Neil Young's "Walk On" (to Skynyrd)...

Some great insights inter her songs, chuck... I've seen threads on translations, but not to many on meaning.. I'd luv to see more of those. I kid you not: sometimes I get little panic attacks when I hear her songs because I feel claustrophobic for not being able to understand the lyrics.

I think the speculation about songs being about mylene is pretty far fetched. I think Alizee was at the age of transitioning to adult hood when those songs were made. She got married, moved to a permanent res away from ajaccio, had a kid... I think there are aspects of shedding the teenage years in her song. She has mentioned that she doesn't like clubs, she doesn't booze or do drugs, and that the songs were concept songs.. Plus another aspect of her personality is that as a youngster she perceived as 20 being old and having a family and so on by then...

anyway... way too much speculation. What we can say that is mylene has a HUGE fan base... I'm sure quite a bit of them are gay (as you can see here)...

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/AGR2DEEbSuM&hl=en&fs=1&color1=0xcc2550&color2=0xe8 7a9f"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/AGR2DEEbSuM&hl=en&fs=1&color1=0xcc2550&color2=0xe8 7a9f" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

...with accessible income...and Mylene must have a lot of pull in many circles. Much of that was stripped when Alizée went on her own, plus a crappy economy doesn't help nor does the label juggling.

I think its more about the future.. hoping that she will continue to make her music and have that amazing stage presence that we fell in luv with.

[Chuck]

BEN - Wow, HI! { Are you still in France? Any hints, or even hints about hints? ? }

Lefty, I know you don't get angry. That's what makes me so mad! That's also why I'm going to pick on you extra, in a minute. Can I leave one small apology to you, right now, then I'll still owe you one later, but the bill won't be so bad?

Lefty, Jess, Wildfire, Ben, everyone, lots of love and respect to all of you. Yes, I was joking when I said people were "hot and bothered". I'm sorry for causing anyone any further bothers. Or botherednesses.

Everyone, you've all checked out Jess' website, right? If not, do it now, and thank him by next thursday:::

http://www.international-music-video...69%3Be&x=0&y=0
http://www.international-music-video...foires&x=0&y=0


ANYHOO, yes, I was writing all that provocative speculation just for fun. Just for amusement. And just to get it out there. If, as some of you say, this has all been discussed before, then someone please clue me where to look-- I sincerely would love to see what else has been said. (And I should get all my facts straight, too, before publishing this sordid, made-up tale in "The Tattler").


LEFTY, you're right again, at least on the overall picture. You said:
"As for the Alizée/Mylene thing, I assume Alizée had the industry standard recording contract and no more taken advantage of than any other artist. I assume the breakup was a natural progression of life, and therefore, no harm, no foul. In my opinion, whatever possible friction that may or may not have existed between Alizée and Mylene is of no real consequence."

My Good Monsieur Lefty: I totally agree with that last sentence. At this point, this is all pointless conjecture. (Please, can somebody lead me back to the pointed conjecture floor?)

But Lefty, I very strongly disagree with your assessment: "the industry standard recording contract". I'm no doctor, but I know that "the industry standard recording contract" would normally be made with a record company. The "industry standard" entertainment contract would normally be made with an agent or manager who gets 10- 15%. So I don't think the word "standard" applies. This was a very specific, very specialized, very unique contract, and I can't think of anything comparable, before or since.

...Okay, then i thought of 2-3 contracts I would call comparable to Alizee's contract with Mylene:
- Disney's festering pools of fostering young talent...
- Colonel Tom Parker's deal with Elvis,
-or a medieval indentured-servitude contract?

Discussable? Anybody got any better comparisons? Like Robert Johnson's deal with the Devil?

Quoting Lefty again:
" I assume the breakup was a natural progression of life, and therefore, no harm, no foul."
Lefty. Dude. Just supposin' - - - what if those assumptions were wrong?

(Once Again, Lefty, Apologies. Next time I'll quote Wasabi or someone else.)

Ultimately, It's been fun writing this crazy stuff. If someone wants to believe Alizee and Mylene parted ways by shaking hands and smiling, fine. If someone else want to imagine they had a big clawing, biting, hair-pulling, name-calling, look-out-for-that-jello, all-out catfight when they split, uhh



Where was I?

Oh I remember, I was about to quote wildfire:

Originally Posted by wildfire

I think its more about the future.. hoping that she will continue to make her music and have that amazing stage presence that we fell in luv with.