Bullying.

[Azhiri]

Okay guys, I tried to think of ways that this thread could go horribly wrong, and I concluded that if we can all focus on the topic at hand and exercise restraint and maturity (we are indeed all adults here), this can be a good discussion - if people are interested, that is.

Bullying has always been a really close topic for me. Lately I've been thinking about it more because of the whole Amanda Todd fiasco (I can give my opinion on that, but some of you won't like it) and the questions it brings up - namely:

1. Bullying will always be a part of life, that's inevitable - but when does it become excessive? Where does the "normal" urge to hurt others (kids will be kids, it was just a joke, etc) end and personal, moral responsibility begin? How much bullying should one put up with before it can be considered a legitimate problem?

2. What makes people like Amanda Todd more important than the many, many other suicides related to bullying?

3. What are some practical ways to help prevent bullying in a school setting?

In this thread, I want to hear your stories, your opinions on bullying, thoughts in general.. anything and everything you have to say on this subject. Again, keep it civil, this thread should be a place to say whatever you need to say without being judged or picked on.

[Future Raptor Ace]

Originally Posted by Azhiri

Okay guys, I tried to think of ways that this thread could go horribly wrong, and I concluded that if we can all focus on the topic at hand and exercise restraint and maturity (we are indeed all adults here), this can be a good discussion - if people are interested, that is.

Bullying has always been a really close topic for me. Lately I've been thinking about it more because of the whole Amanda Todd fiasco (I can give my opinion on that, but some of you won't like it) and the questions it brings up - namely:

1. Bullying will always be a part of life, that's inevitable - but when does it become excessive? Where does the "normal" urge to hurt others (kids will be kids, it was just a joke, etc) end and personal, moral responsibility begin? How much bullying should one put up with before it can be considered a legitimate problem?

2. What makes people like Amanda Todd more important than the many, many other suicides related to bullying?

3. What are some practical ways to help prevent bullying in a school setting?

In this thread, I want to hear your stories, your opinions on bullying, thoughts in general.. anything and everything you have to say on this subject. Again, keep it civil, this thread should be a place to say whatever you need to say without being judged or picked on.

I dont know how to answer numbers 1 and 2 however ill give my best shot at 3.
I think the problem with bullying is the bully is in a win win scenario. They look kool and strong in front of their friends by weakening someone else. If they get caught and punished, they still look kool and tough. The problem is people admire and fear these bullies at the same time, they want the power and they dont want to be the victim so they go along with the bully or turn the other cheek. This is why I feel forcing other kids to stand up to bullies is the wrong approach when really turning the other cheek is the better road to take. It is not the kids where the problem lies but it is with the adults. The punishment for bullying is not effective these days. Most of the time the bully is extremely defiant and does not really mind the punishment and like said before has their image untarnished. However if you change that then the bullies will be afraid to get caught because it will effect their image. The easiest way I can think of to accomplish this is public shaming/humiliation. Now the bully appears weak in front of the audience they are trying to impress and it ruins the hierarchy of their dominance. Now obviously their should be a line drawn somewhere on to what magnitude justifies this punishment but I shall leave that to the law makers ... but I feel what I have come up with is a definitely solution as for I have been thinking about it for years. I went to a really bad NYC high school in which 70% of the school consisted of drug dealers and bullies. Then the other 20% was the people who where "whanna-bes" and admires and the remaining 10% were the victims. LOL I remember I had this big guy have my back every time I let him cheat off me in math ... but on days where he didnt I did not have a good day (I can laugh about it now since it was 5 years ago but it was hell then)

[Merci Alizée]

I was bullied during school days, but the video of Amanda Todd makes that feel like nothing.

[mzracing76]

I have led several discussions on this topic on Facebook over the past few years...

1) giving a person to much **** to where they start to suffer in ways of Depression, Self Esteem Issues, and start believing that the talk is true is when people go to far. That is bullyin in my book.

2) no one has said that the Amanda Todd case is the worst, the most important, or the most bizaare of all stories; but each case presents a new challenge in the world of bullying. If anyone knowd about the Phoebe Prince case, knows that the 8 kids and the school were hel accountable. The school recieved several sanctions against them, while 4 of the Bullies have since been serving prison time, as well will have to do community service for their actions against Phoebe.

We need to make Bullies accountable for their actions, preach values in human nature, and encourage kids to be mature. I have always been against bullies.

3) what we can do is this - hold our Schools, Teachers, and Parents accountable for their actions. Fine them, penilize them, and suspend all included, including teachers, kids, and principles. Another thing we can do, and I have played my role, is to sponsor Legislation in Governments to make it a Federal and Local crime to commit an act of bullying. I support any law that makes it a crime, and sets up a 3 step violation process. First offense would be 90 day suspension, Second offense would be 1 year suspension without pay for teachers, $500 fine levied on the parents, or One Year suspension for students, and sanctions levied on the school or system. And finally, Third Offense would be Prison/Jail time for Students, Career ending punishment for teachers or school administrators, and $2500 fine on parents.

[ALS]

MZRacing76 good luck getting that one through the teachers union.

I'm not making light of your comments, just noting the reality of the situation.

[Merci Alizée]

Originally Posted by mzracing76

3) what we can do is this - hold our Schools, Teachers, and Parents accountable for their actions. Fine them, penilize them, and suspend all included, including teachers, kids, and principles. Another thing we can do, and I have played my role, is to sponsor Legislation in Governments to make it a Federal and Local crime to commit an act of bullying. I support any law that makes it a crime, and sets up a 3 step violation process. First offense would be 90 day suspension, Second offense would be 1 year suspension without pay for teachers, $500 fine levied on the parents, or One Year suspension for students, and sanctions levied on the school or system. And finally, Third Offense would be Prison/Jail time for Students, Career ending punishment for teachers or school administrators, and $2500 fine on parents.

Are you suggesting that everyone should be bullied to stop others from bullying?

[Azhiri]

FRA, I agree that bullying is difficult to deal with because the bully accomplishes his goal pretty much in all scenarios. I would say that in terms of the aftermath of a bully, a lot of it is on the victim to handle - to an extent. I think the most effective way to keep from getting hurt by bullies emotionally is to be at peace with what makes you stand out and to know yourself well enough to be comfortable with being called out... you can't insult someone who has already come to terms with what makes them vulnerable to be insulted. I think this value should be emphasized more in our daily lives. This should probably even be a priority over the bullying itself - that would at least do something to ease the pain and buy time for kids who feel hopeless and that there is no way out. I think people should be encouraged to go to therapy to help them get closer to inner peace. There is a bit of a stigma that comes with getting therapy, this should be changed somehow - the idea that therapy can be for everyone, not just crazy or "broken" people, should be introduced and accepted in our society.

Originally Posted by Merci Alizée

I was bullied during school days, but the video of Amanda Todd makes that feel like nothing.

Well, that case is a little different because I don't believe her suicide was a direct result of bullying, though I'm sure she was bullied quite a bit. In her version of events she is a victim, but if you do some digging that is not actually the case - her death is tragic either way, but the nature of that entire situation is not what it would seem at first glance. I don't like the fact that she's become a martyr or that she has gotten such a huge reaction over hundreds of other, more serious cases, but if it does end up becoming a turning point then I would be grateful for the attention she generated.

Originally Posted by mzracing76

I have led several discussions on this topic on Facebook over the past few years...

1) giving a person to much **** to where they start to suffer in ways of Depression, Self Esteem Issues, and start believing that the talk is true is when people go to far. That is bullyin in my book.

2) no one has said that the Amanda Todd case is the worst, the most important, or the most bizaare of all stories; but each case presents a new challenge in the world of bullying. If anyone knowd about the Phoebe Prince case, knows that the 8 kids and the school were hel accountable. The school recieved several sanctions against them, while 4 of the Bullies have since been serving prison time, as well will have to do community service for their actions against Phoebe.

We need to make Bullies accountable for their actions, preach values in human nature, and encourage kids to be mature. I have always been against bullies.

3) what we can do is this - hold our Schools, Teachers, and Parents accountable for their actions. Fine them, penilize them, and suspend all included, including teachers, kids, and principles. Another thing we can do, and I have played my role, is to sponsor Legislation in Governments to make it a Federal and Local crime to commit an act of bullying. I support any law that makes it a crime, and sets up a 3 step violation process. First offense would be 90 day suspension, Second offense would be 1 year suspension without pay for teachers, $500 fine levied on the parents, or One Year suspension for students, and sanctions levied on the school or system. And finally, Third Offense would be Prison/Jail time for Students, Career ending punishment for teachers or school administrators, and $2500 fine on parents.

I agree with your first point wholeheartedly.

With number 2, I wasn't trying to imply that Amanda Todd IS more important than other cases - I was observing that she has been elevated to the status of some sort of martyr, an "angel", and a role model - by millions of girls. Her death has gone viral, people are flocking to support her and her family. I don't like any of it. I don't like the fact that despite her case being somewhat unremarkable in the context of other bullying-related suicides, she has received more attention and support than the people who took their lives under much worse circumstances - or even MORE importantly, those who are still living the torment and are running out of time. Where is their support? What makes Amanda Todd more special? We can't help her, her story is over. What we NEED to do is learn to heal others who are going down the same path and prevent the same thing from happening again.

As far as your solution - I don't think holding specific people accountable (other than the bullies themselves) with fines or suspensions would be a good solution because the issue of bullying would not be black-and-white enough to justify it. There would have to be very specific guidelines for what would constitute a simple fine over, say, suspension. Each situation is unique. I feel like we would end up fining people for misunderstandings and unfair situations, people would end up afraid to interact with each other because no one wants to get fined or suspended.

Personally I think a good place to start would be to make classrooms smaller - that is, less children in one class. In my school, there are sometimes 30 kids to one classroom at certain times, and I've heard that it's not much better across the country. That environment is very hard to control, and it would be virtually impossible to know what is going on between kids in a class that large - people could be viciously bullied right under your nose and you might not even catch it. If classes were smaller, perhaps twenty to one class, it would be much easier to keep up with who is doing what and put a stop to any bullying that could be going on. This would also improve education in general, I believe.

I also think measures should be taken to better equip teachers to deal with bullying when they do see it. A slap on the wrist is not going to do anything. Teachers should be trained with specific techniques to get the message across to kids that what they are doing is NOT okay or acceptable, and perhaps even go over it during teacher workshops over the year.

I don't know if anyone else has noticed this or if it will make sense, but there seems to be a lack of identity in my generation. An emptiness. I think it may have to do with how sheltered we are. I see it as one of the big causes of bullying itself.

[Merci Alizée]

Originally Posted by Azhiri

Well, that case is a little different because I don't believe her suicide was a direct result of bullying, though I'm sure she was bullied quite a bit. In her version of events she is a victim, but if you do some digging that is not actually the case - her death is tragic either way, but the nature of that entire situation is not what it would seem at first glance. I don't like the fact that she's become a martyr or that she has gotten such a huge reaction over hundreds of other, more serious cases, but if it does end up becoming a turning point then I would be grateful for the attention she generated.

For me most shocking part in her case is that how according to her almost everyone who was bullying her. How difficult has it become to have at least one good friend to share your problems? Teenagers won't tell everything to parents and teachers, but not having anyone to share problems doesn't help either.

Victims often aren't in good position to decide what they should about bullying.

[Azhiri]

Originally Posted by Merci Alizée

For me most shocking part in her case is that how according to her almost everyone who was bullying her. How difficult has it become to have at least one good friend to share your problems? Teenagers won't tell everything to parents and teachers, but not having anyone to share problems doesn't help either.

Victims often aren't in good position to decide what they should about bullying.

I have talked with someone who went to school with her (the one she eventually transferred out of) and they said that she was bullied a little, as in people tended to avoid her and did talk about her behind her back, but that they only did so because she was unkind to other people - and that was BEFORE she distributed nude pictures of herself. She said in the video that she made that she was "tricked" into taking said photos, but there are actually several online that she took willingly, some even with friends in the same room. She also held a few inappropriate live, public video sessions with several people. The person I talked to said that she embellished her story quite a bit.

Basically, I believe that while it's tragic that anyone would be driven to commit suicide, she brought the contributing factors on herself by making bad choices and pushing other people away from her by having a nasty attitude.

The fact that so many people have expressed sympathy for her and reached out to support her family doesn't bother me, but I have seen people call her a "hero" and an "inspiration". Given what I know of her story, this bothers me a lot. I hope that people don't follow her example and choose to see suicide as a good way to deal with their problems.

----------------------

I mentioned that in our generation there seems to be a lack of identity/emptiness. A good way to fill that emptiness, is with kindness - so I think another important way to deal with bullying is to just be more open to loving other people and accepting love from other people. When one reaches out to another person who is suffering, it can make a huge positive impact for both the victim and the person reaching out.

In our society, I feel that if there were more emphasis on that kind of stuff, everyone would be happier. I think that instead of being reserved and closed-off to strangers, we should look for beauty and good things in everyone we meet - fall in love with them, just a little bit. Enjoy the spirit in others. Having that appreciation for other people not only brings happiness to you, but I think it just makes you project good, happy energy, for lack of a better, less-hippyish way of saying it, and others will enjoy your presence.

If more people lived by that principle, maybe bullying and cruelty could be less common in our society. Never gone, that would be asking too much - just less common.

[Future Raptor Ace]

Originally Posted by mzracing76

3) what we can do is this - hold our Schools, Teachers, and Parents accountable for their actions. Fine them, penilize them, and suspend all included, including teachers, kids, and principles. Another thing we can do, and I have played my role, is to sponsor Legislation in Governments to make it a Federal and Local crime to commit an act of bullying. I support any law that makes it a crime, and sets up a 3 step violation process. First offense would be 90 day suspension, Second offense would be 1 year suspension without pay for teachers, $500 fine levied on the parents, or One Year suspension for students, and sanctions levied on the school or system. And finally, Third Offense would be Prison/Jail time for Students, Career ending punishment for teachers or school administrators, and $2500 fine on parents.

Im sorry mzracing76 but I think that is a terrible idea especially since my parents are both teachers and I cant begin to tell you the bullshit they are already held accountable for. Second you are telling me if a kid calls a another kid a name, which is normal, that if the teacher decides maybe its best to let the kids work it out themselves that the teacher should receive 90 days suspension? Are you kidding me ... think about your solution a little bit more. Also know radical solutions have radical consequences. For example yours will result in teachers issuing undeserved punishments since their ass is on the line since you are willing to suspend them for a year without pay. Next im not sure making bullying a crime to be a good idea either since our prisons are already over populated and wasting tons of tax payers dollars, sending people there that do not belong will be a huge problem. Next you will have a Salem witch trial like scenario where everyone will be accusing others of "bullying." Furthermore you want to put children in jail for just being children .......? Yes bullying is bad and needs to be minimized but throwing kids in jail for it is just plain wrong man and I cant even begin to scratch the surface on why that is.
Like I said before, if your ideas are ever put in place we will be reliving the Salem Witch Trials.

Edit:

Originally Posted by Azhiri

FRA, I agree that bullying is difficult to deal with because the bully accomplishes his goal pretty much in all scenarios. I would say that in terms of the aftermath of a bully, a lot of it is on the victim to handle - to an extent. I think the most effective way to keep from getting hurt by bullies emotionally is to be at peace with what makes you stand out and to know yourself well enough to be comfortable with being called out... you can't insult someone who has already come to terms with what makes them vulnerable to be insulted. I think this value should be emphasized more in our daily lives. This should probably even be a priority over the bullying itself - that would at least do something to ease the pain and buy time for kids who feel hopeless and that there is no way out. I think people should be encouraged to go to therapy to help them get closer to inner peace. There is a bit of a stigma that comes with getting therapy, this should be changed somehow - the idea that therapy can be for everyone, not just crazy or "broken" people, should be introduced and accepted in our society.

You are right Azhiri and I think if implemented correctly your method could work, we live in a very insecure society where we are judged by petty things such as appearance. But however what you said only works with one type of bully ... the verbal bully. With the physical bully you can be as secure with yourself as you want and it wont help you.
BTW this is the not a sexist comment but I have read somewhere that the female bully is the worst of the verbal bully as for they know how to sting where it hurts ... as a girl Azhiri how do you feel about that and do you agree or disagree with it? I was never bullied by a girl (maybe when I was really really young in like 1st grade lol) so I cannot say.