POLL - Artistic Grant to Alizée

[sumi1]

Originally Posted by docdtv

I noted in <a href="http://alizeeamerica.com/forums/showpost.php?p=156263&postcount=254"><i>After the ball</i></a> that the Florence Gould Hall Theater at the French Institute Alliance Française in Manhattan provides 400 seats which are filled for $50 each these days. That's $20,000 for a full house. If we could raise, say, $4,000, we could pay for 20% of the seats, which could be offered gratis to notables on Broadway and Madison Avenue which Alizée might like to meet, or failing the logistical ability to invite such persons, to French language students in the city. It seems to me it would be easier to get the place to invite and pay Alizée if we could make such a sponsorship investment up front.

I think that is a great idea, complexity aside. I will be ready to contribute to the best of my ability to make it work.

Let's see what happens when more people vote in the poll I set and talk again. As I write this, some € 275+ has been pledged from among only 19 voters so far (far less than the 1000+ AAm membership). That's 27.5% of the minium of € 1000 I set to make the amount dignified.

You might want to change the poll title given that most members are not in favor of the artistic grant. Initially I did not vote because I was against the idea of artistic grant, however, will be more than happy to contribute if it is required for something like what you suggested now.

[Bigdan]

Originally Posted by docdtv

@BigDan - wouldn't it be a useful PR stunt which shocks the French public if Americans created a "reparations" fund for all the Alizée music they feel guilty about people stealing?

I'm not sure I get the point here... My first reaction ( as french guy, i think) was to be shocked by your proposal. So , I think i can imagine what a french media could do with this : " Alizée new album is such a flop that US fans decided to send her money to help her..."

"Reparations" suggest that the reason why she don't get the money she deserve, is the piracy of her albums... It's suggest that she could sell millions of albums if piracy could be eliminated... which no-one in France will believe...


Let me add that French people are rather proud , and could really easely be insulted by this kind of action, especially when it comes from a richer nation...

And, above that, remember Alizée is Corsican. My oncle was corsican.
Very touchy people, believe me ....

(I suppose when you want to please your girlfriend you spend your money in a very beautifull bunch of flower... you're not give her just the money... )


.

[sumi1]

Very well said Bigdan.

[VVVACCPLPNLY]

+1 To bigdan and sumi1. Like I said, a gift is better than money. That grant says to me 'Hey Alizée, you are an internationally famous artist, but you aren't making enough from your albums. So, we Americans feel it is our responsibilty to pay you for nothing. We love you, so here is cash!' If fall is reading this, he might remember a certain episode of Fresh Prince where Will took money from a country club. Similar situation. The club started handing the family money, because they thought the family was falling on hard times. We send Alizée money, she would definitely be offended. No doubt. I say we np ths idea in the bud. No sending her money. Because if just a few members do (say 15) send her money (say, €250) and she takes it offensively, then she will look at the site as a whole. Not just those who sent money. I am one of the fortunate fifty, doc, and I want to thank her. But not by handing her cash.

[Bigdan]

[Deepwaters]

Docdtv:

No matter how much verbiage you present in its support, or how eloquent you become, it's still a dumb idea. Please let it be diverted into something that might not be such a dumb idea.

Thanks.

[Roman]

I didn't read through all of this thread, but I have been inspired in the past (and had the money at the time) to want spend a lot on something dedicated to Alizée. That never really happened. I dedicated the right side of my back and that's as far as I got. I've cooled off a lot on such desires since then (not to mention that I have nowhere near the funding anymore), but this does not sound like a bad idea to me.

If one was to do such a thing as this, I think it would be best to do something with strings. Obviously from certain things I've read, Alizée has money, though I agree that she may not be making back what she's spent on all of this. I think what has hurt her career the most though is just doing nothing for long periods of time, or nothing that the public can see anyway. To help people appreciate Alizée more, the best thing would be to continue to create new "content" as they say.

Most of the world's most celebrated classical artists were funded by the commissioning of artistic works. If it was presented that way, I don't see how she could be offended, though I do understand that it's more glamorous to think of her as a superstar way beyond us, almost untouchable and not needing anyone's help. But, it is a lot more engaging and satisfying to be directly involved with something. And frankly, I think Alizée has been having difficulty coming up with something to do in the past few years; though, she has recently talked about making a longer, like 7 or 8 minute, video for one of her songs. I think funding that idea or helping to fund it might be one of the best things to do.

I had this idea inspired by the song Factory Girl: Alizée in a large building, a kind of worn out factory perhaps, up on a stage singing Factory Girl with maybe some backup or a chorus and in any case, with an orchestra playing a part of the music - something grand to put emphasis on the great aspirations of the song, of the music. Alizée in a sparkling red dress, maybe similar to the black one she wore at her mini-concert a while back?

Imagine if a bunch of fans made that happen. I think that would generate some interest and it might take such things in order to keep Alizée going. The thing is, I've heard of people spending a half million on music videos (or more). There's apparently no limit on how much one can spend. So, I really have no idea how much it would cost for any given music video or alternately a concert. While a concert would also be really cool, a video is something that could be enjoyed by everyone forever (and might even cost less for all I know).

Honestly, I don't know how I'm going to continue to fund anything in my life, but I would still kick in 120+ € for a project presented as a commission for Alizée to perform/create something. I guess that could also entitle those who participate to a high def version of the final at least. Depending on how much of a percert one could raise, one could negociate various things, but yeah, I tend to think that indeed Alizée has turned down so many offers that one really must be resigned to the idea that she will only agree to that which she wants and must never be made to feel uncomfortable with the situation. I think her fans have provided more than adequate support to prove themselves, but that's not the point. If one truely wants more from Alizée, the best thing to do would be to establish a way to get real donations (or I should say contributions) and to get her to actually apply them. But you also have to realize that whether it's great or it totally sucks, you get what you get. This is the hard part. If paying for something "before" it's created, there will always be the temptation for people to complain that they didn't get what they wanted. That's the other reason to think of it more like a donation of appreciation, but apply it like a commission for hire.

Sorry, if I've blabbed on too long for someone who in fact is not in a great position to do much (like many of you). I just think that it is a nice idea and if it happened fairly soon, I'd definitely want to be involved.

[rj.bagby]

My suggestion is to read what BigDan wrote and then come up with something other than giving cash.

[FanDeAliFee]

Bigdan,

I think you make an invaluable contribution because you are French - and even close to the Corsicans - as well as a long-time resident of Paris. I will listen closely to what you say and think about it. And it would be even better if you might get other French people to add their opinions as well. This is true even assuming we abandon my original idea for another unusual one.

It has been a long time since I helped with international humanitarian aid, but one interesting thing I learned is this. Even in FAMINE conditions, you must provide food similar enough to what the local people find customary to eat or SOME of then will STARVE TO DEATH! I found this surprising, but never forgot it.

Let me mention something else. As Scruffy was preparing for his trip, I offered some advice concerning matters to him and Ben. I said that while I had fancifully christened Scruffy our "ambassador," I was very aware his command of French was limited, as was his deep understanding of life there, despite his several trips to Europe. I said that if any enduring contact emerged between Alizee America and the Alizee entourage, we needed a FRENCH member of Alizee America to act as what in diplomatic circles is called the "Honorary Counsel" - a native national, whom the foreign entity trusts to intermediate. In fact, I nominated a certain Parisian you know very well.

Originally Posted by Bigdan

I'm not sure I get the point here... My first reaction ( as french guy, i think) was to be shocked by your proposal. So , I think i can imagine what a french media could do with this : " Alizée new album is such a flop that US fans decided to send her money to help her..."

France and the United States are not so different that I did not harbor a similar anxiety. As I wrote at <a href="http://alizeeamerica.com/forums/showpost.php?p=152308&postcount=93"><i>Paying to keep the MAGIC alive: La Possibilité Du Siècle</i></a>
<blockquote><i>It is not hard to reliably transfer a million dollars, because transaction costs are a microscopic fraction of that million. But please note that it is very hard to cut a modest check to "Alizée Jacotey" and get it delivered and cashed! [P.S. All of Alizée America working together had to send five? copies of their Open Letter before they felt certain it did not get "lost" along the way!] <b>Done the wrong way, it might even be PERCEIVED as vulgar or insulting to send a €100 check, rather than buy a €10 CD which provides a small fraction of €10 to S.A. ["Société Alizée"].</b> What does the sender expect in return? If a foundation existed, the answer would be clear: nothing but the knowledge that the donation helps the cause... That is not to say a €100 donation might not bring a signed thank-you note or a €1000 donation a short (e.g. 30 second) personalized thank-you video...

<b>Still, this might have been taken the wrong way and refused. Who needs a publicity item reading Once-great entertainer X now reduced to accepting penny-ante donations like a street busker?</b> The people who work for operas, concert orchestras, museums, libraries, historical societies and other cultural organizations escape opprobrium because of the <b>dignity of intermediation by a foundation. Why can't individual entertainers use a similar method?</b></i></blockquote>

Originally Posted by Bigdan

"Reparations" suggest that the reason why she don't get the money she deserve, is the piracy of her albums... It's suggest that she could sell millions of albums if piracy could be eliminated... which no-one in France will believe...

Please don't use what we call a "strawman" in English rhetoric to argue your point. I mean this: Just because my daughter is not the most beautiful girl in France, does not imply she cannot be the most beautiful in our département.

No one knows exactly how much larger art media sales would be in the absence of easy illicit copying. I discussed this a bit at <a href="http://alizeeamerica.com/forums/showpost.php?p=150092&postcount=35"><i>Recording industry number analyses</i></a>. The music industry claims about 95% of downloaded music is pirated. If there was no elasticity of demand, this implies media file sales would be 20 times what they are now, absent piracy. But surely elasticity is non-zero, so the factor is somewhere between 1 and 20. I think it is MUCH closer to 1 than 20. Could it be 2?

But I do not have data to compute the factor. Perhaps no one has. (I admire great French thinkers like Pascal, Descartes, Lagrange, Fourier et alia and aspire to do honor to their example. )

Originally Posted by Bigdan

Let me add that French people are rather proud , and could really easely be insulted by this kind of action...

Let me make a joke: Could they be insulted enough they buy many extra <i>UEdS</i> CDs to to show the arrogant Anglo-Saxons that France can pay its great artists alone? (I study history and know that if you are too poor to pay for a war you want, it is much cheaper to start one with the money you have, which others will then pay for.)

Originally Posted by Bigdan

...especially when it comes from a richer nation...

With similar conditions in both France and the United States, since the latter has 5 times as many people, it will be 5 times as rich in total - but not per capita. I do not know for sure how knowledgeable either average French or American people are. But is it possible French think Americans are richer and Americans think French are richer? Few people in either country visit the other and play Alexis de Tocqueville. If most of their impressions come from television and films, perhaps my guess is correct. For every time one sees <i>Les Misérables</i>, one sees ten films like <i>Marie Antoinette</i>. Why? Many more poor people like to watch rich people, to pretend they live in their world, than the other way around! (By the way, when I wanted to treat my late mother especially well on one of her birthdays in New York City, I did not take her to eat at an "American" restaurant. I took her to <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lut%C3%A8ce_(restaurant)">Lutèce</a>, on my only visit to this former famed establishment.)

What is the objective truth, either in international trade values or PPP? The last time I looked, labor productivity in both countries was very similar - France was a little higher. But France has more legal restrictions on business and higher taxes on everyone. (All economists know this, left and right.) The result is that French people work fewer hours and fewer years than do Americans, so that an American creates more marketable goods and services during his life than does a Frenchman. I will let each decide for himself which type of life is better!

Originally Posted by Bigdan

And, above that, remember Alizée is Corsican. My oncle was corsican.
Very touchy people, believe me ....

At <a href="http://alizeeamerica.com/forums/showpost.php?p=153040&postcount=21"><i>Making art pay</i></a>, I had written:<blockquote><i>People who know history suspect that L’Île de Beauté was previously called L’Île de Batterie, LOL!</i></blockquote>Another joke: Perhaps you know a president in the fan club of the late Tejano singer <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selena"><i>Selena</i></a> was taking money from the fan club and killed Selena when confronted about this. This seems very unfair to me. Perhaps, in revenge, we should try to get a singer to kill a fan club president for trying to give the singer money!

Originally Posted by Bigdan

(I suppose when you want to please your girlfriend you spend your money in a very beautifull bunch of flower... you're not give her just the money... )

Unlike some people here, I have neither had the illusion that Alizée was my girlfriend nor that Jean-René Etienne was my boyfriend. This brings up an alternative.

If the Arts Grant were payable to Institubes, rather than some singer, it might accomplish the same thing without as much anxiety. Since it came from a group named Alizée America, the reason for the gift would be clear and Alizée would know about it from online sources, even if her professional partners were less than worthy of trust, something I will not suggest. If and when Institubes and Alizée parted ways, the former might be foolish to expect a similar grant from the same source again. Alizée has called Monsieur Etienne her "Artistic Director." She has made explicitly clear she is neither a lyricist, nor a composer, and her performance and interpretation relies upon professional partnerships which supply what she does not.

But Alizée is a visual artist, besides a vocal one. If we harbored hope that our grant might help finance another free <i>UEdS</i> music video which is released to <i>YouTube</i>, is a check to Institubes, a pure audio art shop, the least complicated way to finance this?

I'll ask one last question. If it is not INSULTING to offer the unspecified "services" and "advice" of a small group of US fan club showbiz amateurs of unknown competence (who don't even know how to simply and reliably send her a letter via her agent, using ONE copy.), why is it insulting to offer an large Arts Grant, which is completely fungible and unencumbered by conditions?

P.S. As I write this, a total of € 645 has been pledged by 28 voters, only 13 of whom pledge nothing, This is most of the way to the dignified minimum of € 1000. We have yet to hear from all of the Fortunate Fifty, much less most of the 1000+ members of Alizée America.

[VVVACCPLPNLY]

Well, in response to your final question, offering her assistance is perfectly fine. Well, imho. We are not giving her charity, we are basically doing something we were anyways, except this way it would be officially on her behalf. But handing her straight up cash, that makes it look like we think she is not making enough money. Like I said before, the huge levels she reached with Gourmandises/MCÉ were more because of her colaboration with MF. But on her own, maybe she is content with the small, devoted fanbase she has. She didn't plan on being a famous singer, it just happened. She has said she is sometimes surprised by fans' devotion. She is unbelieveably humble, so maybe the current situation she has is exactly what she wants. Which is something I appreciate about her. Maybe she doesn't want to come to America, for fear of becoming manstream, and turning into a fad. Just suggesting. But us helping her get here (if she wants to!) is not charity. Humans are wierd: we accept help, but not in practical ways.