Global Warming not caused by humans?

[HelixSix]

Finally! Since that issue has been resolved by a professor and his student the world can refocus it's efforts on fossil fuels.

[Future Raptor Ace]

Originally Posted by Toc De Mac

But the question is why it is raised to the fourth power; formulas are not Gods, they are based on observed data.

You mean (1/4) power and very good question actually
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/ra...fer-d_431.html
as you can see from equation (1) "Stefan-Boltzmann Law"
q = σ T⁴ A (which is the most basic radiation heat transfer formula and is a 100% correct!)
when you do a q(in) = q(out) and solve for T the T^(4) becomes a T^(1/4)
As for why equation (1) is raised to the forth .... I could derive it for you but it will take up a few pages and I really don't feel like doing that. Just expect that it is THE PREMIER FORMULA FOR RADIATION HEAT TRANSFER and I promise you it is not wrong lol ... trust me!
edit: actually there is a derivation on Wikipedia .... I hope you understand calculus lol!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stefan%...3Boltzmann_law

[Future Raptor Ace]

Originally Posted by HelixSix

Finally! Since that issue has been resolved by a professor and his student the world can refocus it's efforts on fossil fuels.

... thanks Helix


Oh wow Wiki has a simplified version of the formula we did in class though wiki's formula is a simplified version since it assumes the earth is a black body which it is not! However they do mention at the bottom that the effects of emissivity and absorptivity with greenhouse gases. This makes me even more confident that my professor and my previous posts are 100% correct! I guess I have nothing left to say because everything is all here. Temperature of the Earth

Similarly we can calculate the effective temperature of the Earth T_E by equating the energy received from the Sun and the energy radiated by the Earth, under the black-body approximation. The amount of energy, E_S, emitted by the Sun is given by:
<dl><dd></dd></dl> At Earth, this energy is passing through a sphere with a radius of a₀, the distance between the Earth and the Sun, and the energy passing through each square metre of the sphere is given by
<dl><dd></dd></dl> The Earth has a radius of r_E, and therefore has a cross-section of . The amount of solar energy absorbed by the Earth is thus given by:
<dl><dd></dd></dl> The amount of energy emitted must equal the amount of energy absorbed, and so:
<dl><dd></dd></dl> T_E can then be found:
<dl><dd></dd></dl> where T_S is the temperature of the Sun, r_S the radius of the Sun, and a₀ is the distance between the Earth and the Sun. This gives an effective temperature of 6°C on the surface of the Earth, assuming that it perfectly absorbs all emission falling on it and has no atmosphere.
The Earth has an albedo of 0.3, meaning that 30% of the solar radiation that hits the planet gets scattered back into space without absorption. The effect of albedo on temperature can be approximated by assuming that the energy absorbed is multiplied by 0.7, but that the planet still radiates as a black body (the latter by definition of effective temperature, which is what we are calculating). This approximation reduces the temperature by a factor of 0.7^1/4, giving 255 K (−18 °C).<sup id="cite_ref-IPCC4_ch01_2-0" class="reference">[3]</sup><sup id="cite_ref-3" class="reference">[4]</sup>
However, long-wave radiation from the surface of the earth is partially reflected (or absorbed and re-radiated back down) in the atmosphere, instead of being radiated away, by greenhouse gases, namely water vapor, carbon dioxide and methane.<sup id="cite_ref-4" class="reference">[5]</sup><sup id="cite_ref-Cole_5-0" class="reference">[6]</sup> Since the emissivity with greenhouse effect (weighted more in the longer wavelengths where the Earth radiates) is reduced more than the absorptivity (weighted more in the shorter wavelengths of the Sun's radiation) is reduced, the equilibrium temperature is higher than the simple black-body calculation estimates. As a result, the Earth's actual average surface temperature is about 288 K (14 °C), which is higher than the 255 K effective temperature, and even higher than the 279 K temperature that a black body would have.

[alizeefan]

Originally Posted by helixsix

finally! Since that issue has been resolved by a professor and his student the world can refocus it's efforts on fossil fuels.

^ win win !

Originally Posted by mzracing76

I dont believe in Global Warming, sorry. I am a Conservative Republican. I dont buy all that mumbo jumbo. Save it for the Liberals, lol.

I believe what you don't believe in is what you're being fed,
the biggest problem is we all agree just not what to do.

It's this whole us vs them nonsense when that is just as made up as what anyone believes .

Do you believe the ice caps are melted and sea levels are rising ?
Even if we didn't do it this is a problem as the majority of houses around the world are on the coasts . Also will have a drastic affect on food and the shipping of such infrastructure these things are immeasurable by math costly as half the things are not accounted for.

[mzracing76]

Its the natural cycle of the earth, cannot be tamed. Humans should learn from history and know where not build. The Egyptians did not rebuild their capital (Avaris) on the original location which was centered on the Nile Delta, they moved it south and created a new city and capitol.

Now, why did we rebild New Orleans when we know full well that it will again get hut, perhaps harder. I dont feel sorry for citizens of NOs the next time it occurs.

Same with California, why build homes, cities on a chain of fault lines knowing they will explode at any moment.

Global Warming/Cooling whatever it may be, cannot be stopped. We will again suffer thru another ice age, thats a fact, learn to adapt or move away from the coasts. Same with Quakes, Tornadoes, Snowstorms, etc.....

Still dont believe in humans cause G....

[Rev]

Originally Posted by Future Raptor Ace

Global Warming not caused by humans? There is global warming happening currently but it is not a result of anything humans have done according to what I have learned today.

Well today in my Heat Transfer class the Professor proposed the above idea as he stated that the Sun goes through natural hot and cold cycles. As for the temperature of the earth, since we are currently studying radiation effects, we derived a formula where one can see the temperature of the Earth depends mostly on the temperature of the Sun. Since the only form of heat energy that can travel through the vacuums of space is radiation; the temperature of the Earth depends mostly on the radiation formula below. Yes there is some conduction and convection effects due to the oceans and weather but the dominant form of heat transfer that the Earth feels is radiation from the Sun. I shall write out the temperature of the Earth formula due to radiation effects below as well as what each of the variables mean.

Temperature of earth TE
TE = [((αE*εs)/(εE))^(1/4)*(Ds/((4*dSE))^(1/2)]*Ts
αE = absorptivity of the earth. This directly means how much radiation (heat energy from the Sun) can the earth absorb. This variable will increase from an increase CO2 emissions from humans.

εs = emissivity of the Sun (how much radiation is emits)
εE = emissivity of the Earth (how much radiation the earth emits) ... which is how much radiation bounces off the earth from the sun. This variable will decrease from an increase in CO2 emissions from humans .... (green house effect)

Ds = diameter of the Sun
dSE = distance between the Sun and Earth

As you can see above; the only variables that is effected by humans (I highlighted in red) is raised to the 1/4th power which is a quad-root (4th root)! This will be a very small number which proves these variables have a negligible effect on the temperature of the Earth. Since Ts (temperature of the Sun) is the only variable not raised to a fractional power, it is the dominant variable by far in the equation.


So according to the math .... we humans contribute an insignificant amount to global warming; interesting huh?

How small a number?

[Future Raptor Ace]

Originally Posted by Rev

How small a number?

Its raised to a fractional power; you're an engineer so you of all people should be able to conceive about how small Rev
But basically the first part of the equation [((αE*εs)/(εE))^(1/4) comes out to be approximately 1 so it is negligible!

[alizeefan]

Originally Posted by mzracing76

Its the natural cycle of the earth, cannot be tamed. Humans should learn from history and know where not build. The Egyptians did not rebuild their capital (Avaris) on the original location which was centered on the Nile Delta, they moved it south and created a new city and capitol.

Now, why did we rebild New Orleans when we know full well that it will again get hut, perhaps harder. I dont feel sorry for citizens of NOs the next time it occurs.

Same with California, why build homes, cities on a chain of fault lines knowing they will explode at any moment.

Global Warming/Cooling whatever it may be, cannot be stopped. We will again suffer thru another ice age, thats a fact, learn to adapt or move away from the coasts. Same with Quakes, Tornadoes, Snowstorms, etc.....

Still dont believe in humans cause G....

While i pretty much agree on most of your points nature can be tamed , wether its a dog a kitten , us , the ocean the weather . We can do anything .

Here is something to question why would this happen if its all smoke and mirrors .

http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/28/opinio...cks/index.html

who do you believe, Christian nay-sayers and oil company lobbyists, or a dedicated legion of scientists that apply good methods and are stifled when they speak the inconvenient facts? Seriously, when history looks back at this period, what will the legacy be, a policy of willful ignorance or a willingness to make positive change?
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speaking of Egypt -

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Edit:

Originally Posted by Future Raptor Ace

What you are mentioning is represented in the formula, absorptivity and emissivity!
I said we have an impact but it is negligible. The formula does account for refraction; we accounted for it in our absorptivity (α)
we said everything that goes into the earth is equal to qin (heat in or energy in)
where qin = αE*εs*σ*As*(Ts^4)*FSE
So everything that hits the earth and stays is accounted for by α. If refraction occurs alpha will increase like I said in my first post! However it does not matter if alpha increases since it will eventually be raised to the (1/4)th power! Also there is a limit on how high alpha can be, it has to be less than 1 since the earth is not a black body (which means it absorbs everything) ...... so alpha is fairly negligible!
As for what leaves the earth, the only variable that humans can change is εE and it too will wind up under the (1/4)th power

Based on a limited, 25-year record, the effect of changes in the sun's intensity on radiative forcing is estimated to be relatively small, or a contribution of about +0.12 Watts per square meter, resulting in a relatively small warming effect.

Mathletics monkey wrench - http://www.epa.gov/climatechange/science/recentac.html

Sigh . . . Simply the time of the measurement alone will change the variables . Also you just tried to tell me with math that having a white ice cap which will be gone soon . . . Does not reflect more light than a black ocean when not a frozen solid chunk of whiteness . . . Yet your claim is the earth hasno black and white . . . Seriousilly ?

There is no need to continue this as your math proves without a shadow of a doubt that humans are negligible to any damage done to the planet its all the suns fault . . . Kinds reminds me of ancient man blaming the sun for earthquakes , lightning and volcanos . . . And you aren't going to convince me ever that it's all the suns fault and man had nothing to do with anything besides negligible .

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Physics is straight forward - more CO2 has a warming influence can't get around that -

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[mzracing76]

Our legacy will be our INTERSTATE and ROAD Systems....I love ancient history, and I have taken liking to the whole Atlantis myth. Now, Atlantis was a real place, but there was no city or continent named Atlantis. Pluto made up the name. But, the people existed. They were the Minoans of ancient Greece.

Did You Know - the Minoans built a very complex city and town structure. Multi Storied buildings like we have today, they had a very complex water and sewer system complete with hot and cold running water, and bathrooms in the each building. Now explain this - if they had bathrooms within their homes and businesses back then (1500 bc), then why did it take us more than 2000 years later after the fall of the Minoans to put bathrooms back in our homes? Amazing heh...

One more thing to think about when it comes to the story of Atlantis/Minoans. Their destruction occured around the same time as a major event in our Bible. A little known evend called the Exodus, which I believed occured around 1500bc with the eruption of the Volcano on Thera, the main island and the origins of the Atlantis myth. In my oppinon, the Exodus is also recorded in Egypt in the form of the HYKSOS EXPULSON. If this is true, the Israelites were not slaves, but a group of trqaveling nomads who settled and built the city of Avaris, former capital of Egypt. What happened? The egyptians grew weary of these Hyksos people (israelites, greeks, europeans) and rebelled against them forcing them to leave. And the 10 plagues mentioned in the bible? Nothing more than a chain of events carried out by Mother Nature herself created by the Volcanic Eruption of Thera (Atlantis).

Amazing story in itself.

[lefty12357]

Remember folks, forum rules don't allow discussions on politics and religion, but I see both creeping into this conversation. Let's avoid those subjects so this thread won't have to be closed.