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#31
03-15-2013, 03:17 PM
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That means, a "deep" person (as per my definition) would always have something to back up what she/he does, says or thinks - and that something would not be just some past experiences and feelings. For example, consider a stereotypical terribly shallow teenage girl, or worse, Snooki (the one from MTV) saying "dream always and all ways" - even though she is saying something that can be considered "deep", I am almost 99% sure that there is nothing substantial behind her words. Be careful - being "deep" in my sense doesn't mean that one should have many real life experiences, it is more about analysis of experiences, about imagination and creativity. Actually, I would say that a "deep" person should try to learn from other people how to avoid unnecessary negative experiences and try to focus on experiences (either considered negative or positive) that will enable him/her to boost his/her "depth" even further. Further, I would say that a "deep" person in my sense is also a "smart" person. Therefore, "depth" in my sense is not so much about how you portray yourself, it is more about with what can you back-up that what you are portraying - ideas, convictions, ideology, experiences, desire to accomplish something, ... . Of course, that doesn't mean that you have to strictly show that your actions and words come from your past ideas, actions and philosophy, you just have to show that what you do or say means more to you than just satisfying your immediate needs. ------------------------------------ Btw. At first I wanted to strictly (that is, mathematically) describe my definition of "depth", but I decided against it because majority here would not know what I am talking about, and the point here is to discuss (as Corsaire said), not to develop strict theories. If you want, please share your definitions of "depth" too! 
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#32
03-15-2013, 03:35 PM
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There was nothing in that post that would point to her having any mental issues. Gee shy and quiet around strangers and out going with her friends makes her sound like a sociopath? Go find the video of the fan get together with some French fans when she released Psychédélices and watch her body language closely. As far as materialistic goes do you take pictures of every outfit you have on every single day then post it on the Internet? You personally have pointed out the cost of most of her clothing to the guys on the board. So is she trying to show everyone how much money she has invested in her outfits? Immaturity, Take a really good look at "what" she has Tattooed on her right arm? Funny in over six years on this board I've only had an issue with ONE woman, you. I love talking to Jenny, Karin, Karla and Azhiri they are really nice and then there is YOU. Euphoria you defiantly have men issues and hey if it makes you feel better to take it out on me fine, at least you're leaving everyone else on the board alone.  I know you far better than you could ever imagine and I know where this problem you're having with me is coming from.I'm just pointing out what I see with her posts on twitter and Instagram. She is 28 years of age and she is in someways reliving her childhood that she lost to her career. I have worked with a majority of women for over the last twenty five years, so I have a pretty good understanding of them. I've been accused more times than I can remember that I know way too much about the opposite sex. I see the games being played out every week and hear them talk about the mind games they've played on their boyfriends and husbands to get what they want constantly. My office is directly across the hall from my employees break room so I hear everything they talk about in there. You're reading more into what I post than what was actually there. First off maybe I should have said something a different way but when you work 65 plus hours a week and have to deal with the mind games employees play you do sometimes get tired and that usually comes with an attitude. If you feel I have a bad attitude towards women than you should talked to my four women managers because their attitudes towards women makes me look like a push over. All the managers in my company are women and they got the position because of their skill sets and plus they are some of the hardest working employees I have, not because of affirmative action. In twenty 24 years in business I've only had one male manager. If I'm such a woman hater then explain to me why after being in business 24 years the average woman employee has worked for me 16.75 years and my women managers have worked for me on average 19.25 years. You would be amazed at the number of women over the years who will not work for me because all my managers are all women. Gee, I wonder why certain women don't want to work under another woman? I guess women know all the games and they don't work as well like they do when you work for a man. I've never had a guy working for me ever having an issue working under a woman manager. There is one thing I'd like to point out about Alizée that makes me like her a lot, she seems to have as many girl friends as guy friends. Every woman I have ever known who was like this, was wonderful to be around. They were the kind of women that didn't stay single very long. FRA, You aren't paying attention to some of the things she does. The big one was when she moved Annily and herself back to Ajaccio. That was a smart move on her part. Most women probably 90% of more would have moved out and got a apartment in Paris and gone on the rebound and found another man PDQ. Alizée could have had her pick of a number of wealthy French men and she didn't do it. Someone pointed something a month or more ago here on the board that Jeremy said something like how he used Alizée for business reasons. No idea if that was true or not but if true Alizée will never let another man into her life that is going to use her for financial gain. Had she stayed in Paris she would have never found love only men that wanted to be with her for either personal or financial gain. Maybe in Ajaccio she feels she has a better opportunity to find someone that will truly love her instead of relationship that is nothing more than a business arrangement. The fact that she made the decision to move back to Ajaccio made me really appreciate the kind of woman I'm a fan of.  She isn't one of those women that needs a man in her life 24/7. She'll find someone, she is really a good person and there are a lot of men who would love to have someone like Alizée the person not the performer in their lives. I've been around a number of people who were involved in music and any that did OK for themselves maybe never made it big were usually brighter than most people ever gave them credit for. Maybe they were not book smart as in having a college education but they were not clueless or stupid in any way either. I've had the pleasure of knowing a small number of MENSA members in my life. In most cases they are very different and many people look at them as odd balls. I worked with a guy right of college that had an IQ over 160 and a member of Mensa. I found out by accident by running into someone that knew him socially. Every one at the company thought he was a nutcase and screwball. The problem was the guy was so far beyond his superiors that he tried to dumb down the conversation to their level and even still the information was going right over their heads. Once I realized what he was and not what everyone thought he was I hung on every word that man spoke. The other people in that room didn't realize what was sitting in front of them at meetings they looked at his input as a waste of time. He worked there until he retired. All the managers and supervisors he had under him back in the eighties all were forced out, fired or their jobs were eliminated over the next ten or so years. Like a girl I was out with once asked a guy that was putting down people he thought were below his intelligence level can you make a broom? She said if I give you a stick, twine, some steel wire and bundle of material for the broom part can you assemble a functional broom for me right now, he said probably not. She just looked at him and said well there are mentally retarded people at Goodwill who do it everyday, does that mean they're smarter than you?
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#34
03-15-2013, 05:46 PM
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Actually, I didn’t put much thought into how a word as vague as “deep” means something different for different people. I instinctively believed that it was understood as the opposite of shallow, or superficial. But then, how do you define shallow or superficial?? Obviously, when Jenny added her thoughts, I realized that for her, “deep” means something quite different than what it means for me. Thanks for bringing this up Matevz, clarifying terms and concepts is essential in a debate.
For me, deep would typically describe a person who will have numerous and diverse interests, will have a certain level of sophistication and culture, will understand and analyse situations in their proper context, will have a fairly developed sense of concepts like morality, justice, equality..., will prefer discussing topics that are challenging, more complex and require more thoughts and abstraction... Jenny says everyone has a deep side? Sure, there are all shades of grey in this area, but you can have pretty close to white and pretty close to black. I personally know people who are extremely shallow and find interest only in good looks, their career, money, clothes, cars, dancing in clubs, having fun, sex... I see nothing wrong with that, but if this is all one fills his life with, well, to me, that is being shallow, and I don’t find shallow people particularly interesting. Nothing wrong, just my personal preference. And let’s be clear on one point here, for me, this has little to do with gender, socioeconomic status, race, religion... Now, the main question I ask in the present thread is : is there any evidence that Alizée has any deeper side to her? So far, I would say that she is rather on the shallow side. Some want to blame the tools she uses to interact with her fans (Facebook and Twitter). Others believe that it would put her privacy in danger if she showed a deeper side. I have explained in earlier posts why I do not believe those are valid explanations. One fact remains, whatever reasons there are for Alizée only displaying superficiality, if she does have a deeper side, she makes great efforts to keep it repressed while she interacts with her fans.
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_______________ Last edited by Corsaire; 03-15-2013 at 10:45 PM..
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#35
03-15-2013, 06:32 PM
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Here is how I see it. I think Alizee and I have been going through something similar the past few years, and while I know little details about her life, I think we are sort of kindred spirits in this way.
Long story short, the past 7 years have been quite "heavy" for me. Heavy emotionally and spiritually. When you're going through hard times, I think it is normal to do some soul searching, and seek out things that have a deeper meaning. During these years, I listened to quite melancholy music, and I loved reading about history, philosophy, and psychology. I also delved into some things that a lot of people would consider silly, like astrology, card reading, psychics, and paranormal activity. All of these things contribute even further to that feeling of heaviness on your soul. It dredges up a lot of feelings that you have to deal with, and it can take a long time to get to the point of healing. Contrary to what people are saying, I think Alizee is not going through a period of soul searching, I think she is currently healing. I imagine the decision to get all those tattoos was actually quite difficult for her. It's never as simple as saying "I'm gonna do what I want, I don't give a fuck what people think." Maybe that's what she's saying now, but I'm sure she took a while to process all of the things that could happen as a result of getting them. I'm actually not trying to turn this discussion into her tattoos, it was just an example. Anyway, she is a woman. Most women, especially those with money, like to shop. It is therapeutic for us. We want to feel pretty and special and yes, a handbag can certainly do that for a lot of women. Trust me, women even get off on how pretty a designer BOX is that the handbag came in, we love that shit. I guess what I'm trying to say is that, I think Alizee is going through her period of healing right now where she's done with the heavy stuff, and wants to feel lighter. Let's not forget that she has said this new album is pretty personal, and I imagine it drudged up a lot of emotions and things from the past. If buying a new Chanel bag makes her feel better, why is that so bad? It's not like she's letting her child starve. Superficial things tend to make us feel lighter, and it's nice to not constantly think about all this shit that's in our head. I am going through it right now and it is SOOO nice to just not have to THINK all the time. I am loving just doing what I want and going to lunch, and shopping, and at the end of the day, having a glass of wine and chilling watching The Vampire Diaries.
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#37
03-15-2013, 07:06 PM
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"'Cause the stars in my eyes, well they twinkle when I see your face.
And the butterflies keep flying, flying all over the place. And the dark and grey, well it fades with the black and white. And all I see is life, life in a beautiful light."
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#38
03-15-2013, 07:51 PM
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I liked your post, Jenny. And I like Euphoria's last post as well.
I think I understand what motivates Corsaire in trying to get a handle on this subject because I've given some thought to it myself over the years. Hell, I even wrote a song about it once. I think a person would maybe have to get to know Alizée personally in order to know the answer. Maybe she's just keeping things light and superficial in public to avoid any controversy.
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http://www.youtube.com/user/lefty12357
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#39
03-15-2013, 09:17 PM
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However, is she "deep" or "shallow"? Well, she is both, depending on who judges her. Jenny mentioned how kind she is to people around her, to us, how kind she is to children, how she supports charity, how she is keeping her "deep" side to those close to her, Euphoria backed her up with claims connected to her own life, how she might be healing, relaxing and such... all fine and dandy. I've noticed these types of thinking in almost every female I've come accross in my life so this almost surely is true also for Alizée (btw, also ALS has some valid points in his last post). Yet, the reason why I (and perhaps Corsaire?) might not be satisfied by this (default female?) perception of "depth" is because my brains are wired differently. Yes, I do appreciate her positivity, kindness, support for charity, need for privacy, relaxation and having a good time... but at the same time, these things also overwhelm me, as my poor introvert brain struggles against all this positivity. People have already said to me that I am not happy, and they are right, because I don't want to be happy. I want to be balanced, so that I can focus on things that really satisfy my needs - thinking, imagination, relaxing. Emotions and specially happiness in large doses overwhelm me and if there wasn't a world worthy of discovering behing Alizées works and things to learn from her, I would have probably never considered her in the first place. I hope that you understand what I am trying to say... its 2:15 am here, I was writting this, half asleep, almost for an hour, but I am still not happy with what I have written... Edit: The bottom line is, for me, Alizée as a person is kind, but shallow - somewhat like Tinker Bell, who of course is shallow because she is a cartoon character, and it is up to us to apply the additional dimensions to our image of Alizée (i.e. Tinker Bell). Last edited by Marka; 03-15-2013 at 09:25 PM..
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#40
03-15-2013, 11:23 PM
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