Why isn't Alizée/French music successful in the US?

[Elise]

I saw many theories here and would like to contribute, maybe this will be something new or maybe not! Here are the reasons discussed in previous threads, I will include my comments on each.

1. Fewer people of French ancestry in the United States than people of other ancestries like German or Italian.

OK, demographics could be possibly a factor yes.

2. France's stand against the Iraq War that led to bad relations between the two countries and increased anti-French sentiment, “French bashing”

Even before or after that, French music is not well known in the US is it? It would be a shame if people still think of France in a negative way because of those difficulties. Though most people have positive reactions to finding out someone is from France. I mean, of course there are tired outdated stereotypes as well just like every country has them.

3. That French is somehow a bad language for writing music in.

I strongly disagree with posts like

http://alizeeamerica.com/forums/show...54&postcount=4

Why compare only to rock, a genre that originated in the US and UK? I can just as easily ask where are the American chansons à texte? French music isn’t worse compared to American music, just different (and by different, I mean better). Just because we may not be familiar with the music scene in other countries, doesn’t mean they can’t write amazing music in their own style and language. I doubt musicians in non-Anglophone countries are saying to themselves that their language just isn’t very good for music. Danish is a language often described as sounding “like you have a potato in your mouth”, but tell me that lyse nætter is not a beautiful song.



Anyway, to give my own answer, I found this documentary about the history of French music. I recommend it for a good insight (you can find a list of the songs played on the website). French songs of the 20th century are more like poems or stories set to music and acted out on stage. It does all sound quite intellectual and sophisticated. When I went and watched the full version of the songs, I saw lots of comments like “I’m 14 and love this song, my friends think I’m weird” with replies like “Hey, there is no age to have good taste, they don’t make music like this any more”, “shame people today don’t appreciate this music”. France has this concept of a French cultural exception (l’exception culturelle française) where their cultural products have to be protected from the invasion of English and American products. Not only in a negative or defensive way, rather to ensure that in a market where most global products are in English, the arts sector gets enough funding. This is partly where the 1994 French music quota comes from. Maybe just to meet the quotas, the same few songs get played and less good artists get promoted. There is a big debate around the (un)fairness of a quota system, in France but in Slovakia, Ireland and many other countries. So I would say it's tough in other European countries as well, because there is competition against English music everywhere.

The most popular answer in a survey of "What is the most beautiful language?" would probably be French, but it would be more of a struggle for people to name a French song. I am trying to change that!

Sorry for the very long rambling. Might add more, and if anyone has any thoughts I would be interested.

[Ben.Daly]

Originally Posted by Elise

Why isn't Alizée/French music successful in the US?

To be honest I don't think it is really all that complicated or surprising. Any foreign spoken artist will struggle in the US and other English speaking countries to enter the mainstream.

A foreign spoken artist might have 1 or 2 songs go viral on the internet for whatever reason, but in terms of sustained success, I'm not so sure.
And Alizee did get a little bit of that overseas virality with JEAM (more specifically the live performance rather than song itself), but it was initially at a time where you'd only find out about it through the internet and far less people were online, so it's kind of become a little easter egg I guess, a sort of "if you know you know" piece of internet phenomenon but never fully mainstream.

If JEAM or ML had happened today and it became a sensation, then sure it could've put Alizee's name out there in the US, but it likely would've just been a passing fad if I'm being honest.

There would be hundreds or even thousands of communities just like us who are each big fans of a certain artist, wondering why they weren't popular in the US.

[Elise]

Yes I took a lot more words to conclude basically that I suppose. It's just difficult for any foreign artist to make it to a huge level of popularity in the English speaking world without speaking English themselves and there's not really much anyone can do about it. Because you definitely have to go out of your way to search for non-English songs, or stumble on it somehow.

[Scruffydog777]

It's really too bad Mylene Farmer botched the effort of rewriting some of her French songs into English versions. Having a song that tells a good story is important; a story that's understandable and Youpidou, I'm fed up and I'm not twenty all failed to do that and I think that's what people who'd be willing to host a concert here wanted.

I've also mentioned in here before how the political climate between France and the USA wasn't that good. Early in 2003, Congress decided to rename in their cafeteria, French fries to freedom fries.

You add those two things together, the lack of a good English song and the political climate and there was too much going on for it to happen.

Her two bigger hits that she was hoping to capture the English market with were I'm fed up and I'm not twenty but I think the song that could have won the day for her would have been Amelie. If she could have just been able to hold one show in New York, even if she was singing only French songs, I think she would have been an overnight sensation.

[AlizéeSuperFanFIN]

It would be nice if there was an alternative universe and Simon Cowell, for example, was the first to discover Alizée!

I’m pretty sure if anyone, then he would have made Alizée big in the US and the English-speaking world as well, for example, 50% English-language songs and 50% French-language songs with a "playbook"! however, suitable songwriters can always be found.

And for Alizée, everything is crowned by her overwhelming sexyness, both in her looks and her singing voice. The legendary saying that many listen to Alizée, even if she just reads the phone book, is a clear fact!

The only downside in this scenario ... There wouldn’t have been these legendary songs we know like JEAM, ML, JPVA, Gourmandises L’alize, etc. And the music industry would enslave her more than she wants.

[Mr Coucou]

Originally Posted by Elise

Why compare only to rock, a genre that originated in the US and UK? I can just as easily ask where are the American chansons à texte? French music isn’t worse compared to American music, just different (and by different, I mean better). Just because we may not be familiar with the music scene in other countries, doesn’t mean they can’t write amazing music in their own style and language. I doubt musicians in non-Anglophone countries are saying to themselves that their language just isn’t very good for music. Danish is a language often described as sounding “like you have a potato in your mouth”, but tell me that lyse nætter is not a beautiful song.

I just listened to "lyse nætter" --- I've never heard it before. While its beautiful in a certain way, I'm not very impressed.

For the sake of argument, let's put "lyse nætter" head to head with an English-language song called 'cool kids':











Comparing the two songs:

Which song (do you think) has a 'catchier' melody?
Which song (do you think) would be better to dance to?
Which song (do you think) would have more potential in terms of record sales?

Etc.

My answer to those questions-- without reservation-- would be 'Cool Kids.'

But I'd like to hear your answers.

[Elise]

I thought you wanted French rock, now dance music (which both exist, you just have to find it). Well of course, lyse nætter is a folk song so not an equal comparison. We can agree to disagree if you think English is the only language in the world capable of writing catchy songs. While American music, media, culture and the English language is globally dominant, I don't see how that means it is intrinsically better. There's loads of great music of all genres in other languages, it can't be hard to find something you like just as much as American music. There is just the initial effect of being put out of your comfort zone and the unfamiliarity if you have not been exposed to it before. But by not giving foreign-language music a chance, we miss out on a lot of amazing music. You might find something you didn't know you would enjoy, just like the metalhead who found Alizée.

[Mr Coucou]

Originally Posted by Elise

I thought you wanted French rock, now dance music (which both exist, you just have to find it).

Let me address your original post:

Why compare only to rock, a genre that originated in the US and UK? I can just as easily ask where are the American chansons à texte? French music isn’t worse compared to American music, just different (and by different, I mean better).

Because rock is huge; rock is a billion-dollar industry.

Everybody loves rock--- to that end, the French public loves rock. But the French public listens to English-language rock, for the simple reason that French songwriters have produced hardly any rock.

(Also, let me clarify: my defition of 'rock' is broad--- it includes soft rock as well as hard rock, as well as much pop. I would consider 'cool kids' to be a form of rock. Given that defintion of rock, French songwriters have produced hardly any rock---and the question is why.)

France has this concept of a French cultural exception (l’exception culturelle française) where their cultural products have to be protected from the invasion of English and American products. Not only in a negative or defensive way, rather to ensure that in a market where most global products are in English, the arts sector gets enough funding. This is partly where the 1994 French music quota comes from.

But the quota proves my point!

If French-language music is just as good as English-language music, then why does it need a quota?

Think about that. French is the native language of the French--- so if anything, the French would have a natural preference for French-language music. (This would especially be true of the French, given how proud the French are of their language.) And yet evidently, the French have a preference for English-language music such that French music needs a quota.

I could delve into the linguistics of why English is better for songwriting, but I don't have to--- the quota proves my point!!

Maybe just to meet the quotas, the same few songs get played and less good artists get promoted.

If there are "good artists", then why the hell aren't they being played instead of "the same few songs"?

The French public have complained about the same few songs being played. So why don't they just play more of the "good artists"--- wouldn't that be a simple solution that would make everybody happy?

The quota proves my point!

If French-language music is just as good as English-language music, then it wouldn't need a quota, would it?!?!?

The quota proves my point!

The most popular answer in a survey of "What is the most beautiful language?" would probably be French, but it would be more of a struggle for people to name a French song.

Yes-- but you're talking about spoken French. French, when spoken, has a very beautiful sound. But just because French is beautiful when spoken doesn't necessarily mean that French is ideal for song lyrics.

There is something about English that makes it ideal for writing lyrics, despite the fact that English is not as beautiful as French when spoken.

Okay, let me address your most recent post:

While American music, media, culture and the English language is globally dominant, I don't see how that means it is intrinsically better.

French music needs a quota-- in France! In France! It needs a quota, because the French public prefers American music over French music. American music might-- or might not--- be intrinsically better, but the French public seem to think that it is.

The best explanation is that American music is--somehow-- intrinsically better than French music. The only other explanation would be that the French public have simply been conned into thinking that American music is better--- and that seems very unlikely.

[Elise]

If countries have rules designed to protect their language/culture in the face of American dominance, it doesn’t make it inferior.

Most people in Europe have at least some idea of American films, music, even politics, far more than what Americans know about what happens in individual European countries. It’s simply a product of America’s dominant status in the world that American music automatically becomes international. It doesn’t need to be a con. And so French music needs a quota because of that reality.

But if you think that American music is unquestionably “better” and have made your mind up about that, then that’s your opinion. Though I suspect you haven’t found something you like through lack of searching. There are catchy songs in languages other than English.

[Mr Coucou]

Originally Posted by Elise

If countries have rules designed to protect their language/culture in the face of American dominance, it doesn’t make it inferior.

Most people in Europe have at least some idea of American films, music, even politics, far more than what Americans know about what happens in individual European countries. It’s simply a product of America’s dominant status in the world that American music automatically becomes international. It doesn’t need to be a con. And so French music needs a quota because of that reality.

People in France complain about the quota. In other words, people in France are complaining that too much French music is being played.

If French music is so great, then why are people in France complaining about too much French music being played?

But if you think that American music is unquestionably “better” and have made your mind up about that, then that’s your opinion. Though I suspect you haven’t found something you like through lack of searching.

It doesn't matter what I think. The French themselves, by their behavior, are indicating that they think American music is better. They seem to have a preference for American music over French music.

There are catchy songs in languages other than English.

If French music is so catchy, then why are people in France complaining about it?