France's music market is tough for French singers.

[Bamagirl]

Originally Posted by Scruffydog777

I always thought French was the most beautiful language and there fore would lend itself easily to poetry and song.

You are 100% right, Scruffy. It is and it does! Whatever the problem with the distribution of modern day French music, it has nothing to do with the language!

[Shepherd]

I know I have said this before and I'm sure it's getting tiresome, but here it is again: I am astounded at the size of Mylene Farmer's audiences and don't understand what her draw is. Nor do I understand why Alizee can't attract crowds like this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6c0sE3lniM

The video below is one of Robert Rhein's concoctions. It's a little old but I really like it. He holds off his signature flood of flying hearts until late in the video. I guess he just can't resist throwing them in.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GiOL...index=350&t=0s



The TRUTH Why Modern Music Is Awful

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVME_l4IwII

[imverynuts]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQkkmYIu95I

My guess for Mylene's appeal is that she simply is still making videos like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQkkmYIu95I

I'd bet she's just more driven than Alizee is to be famous. Like a French Madonna mayhaps. Alot of people seem to like Madonna too, for reasons I don't really know.

[Shepherd]

Originally Posted by imverynuts

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQkkmYIu95I

My guess for Mylene's appeal is that she simply is still making videos like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQkkmYIu95I

I'd bet she's just more driven than Alizee is to be famous. Like a French Madonna mayhaps. Alot of people seem to like Madonna too, for reasons I don't really know.

You are probably right. Mylene's life is her work whereas Alizee is dedicated to living more than working. I enjoy Madonna's music, but I suspect she is a difficult person to live with.

[Elise]

Mr Coucou have you ever listened to any French music apart from Alizée? I highly suspect not. Am I correct?

Has there ever been a world-class French rock band??? Can you name a single one??? Just one???

Noir Désir:





Téléphone:



Louise Attaque:



and plenty more. So what's your point.

And no, it doesn't have to be written by Boutonnat. I actually am baffled why he keeps getting mentioned on this forum. There are hundreds of French songwriters, thousands if we go into the past. They aren't all sitting around frustrated by their native language.

Quite apart from English being the third most widely spoken native language in the world, it also has some very handy features that make it a joy to use in writing music. When you listen to some of the Eurovision entries that are sung in, say, Spanish or the language of one of the eastern European countries, you can almost visualize the musical composer writing in lots of eighth and sixteenth (very short) notes just to keep up with the staccato words and uncomfortable grammar.

By comparison with many other languages, for songwriting English is a breeze. Lots of opportunities for rhyming lyrics, nice short words that mean a lot so you can relax the musical pace (or not) as you please, pronunciation that doesn’t require you to contort your mouth and tongue so your face looks like a tumble dryer at work, plus plenty of words ending in convenient vowel sounds that are easily “singable"...

I addressed this elsewhere: (and incidentally the most recent Eurovision was won by an Italian rock group) Rhyming is a device every language has. And you only think other languages are awkward to pronounce because they are not your native tongue, natives can speak it with no mouth contortion required. As for short words,



Just one example - each word in the chorus is one-syllable. So none of that really stands.

English is a far more widely spoken language than any other. Foreign music won't get the same reach because of Americans/Brits who never consume international media. Lots of French songs actually do quite well in Europe, they just don't reach the UK.

[Ben.Daly]

Originally Posted by Elise

And no, it doesn't have to be written by Boutonnat. I actually am baffled why he keeps getting mentioned on this forum. There are hundreds of French songwriters, thousands if we go into the past. They aren't all sitting around frustrated by their native language.

Given Laurent Boutonnat composed Alizee's first 2 albums it makes sense as to why he's bought up in conversation.

[Elise]

Originally Posted by Ben.Daly

Given Laurent Boutonnat composed Alizee's first 2 albums it makes sense as to why he's bought up in conversation.

I see that but everyone keeps repeating his name without actually saying anything about him.

[Mr Coucou]

Originally Posted by Elise

Mr Coucou have you ever listened to any French music apart from Alizée? I highly suspect not. Am I correct?

I've listened to singers such as Elsa and Francoise Hardy on youtube. Their songs are pleasant but they're rather bland.

You linked two songs by Noir Desir, and one by Louise Attaque: youtube won't let me watch the videos. (Do you have the titles of the songs? Maybe I could look them up on youtube.)

I watched 'hygiphone' by Telephone. I'm not impressed by it.

I watched "Bim Bam Toi" by Carla. I'm not impressed by it.

You wrote:

I addressed this elsewhere: (and incidentally the most recent Eurovision was won by an Italian rock group) Rhyming is a device every language has.

All languages can form rhymes. The point is that English is more versatile at forming rhymes than other languages.

And you only think other languages are awkward to pronounce because they are not your native tongue, natives can speak it with no mouth contortion required

I had quoted what someone else had written (about non-native languages being hard to pronounce.) You are right, you have a point there.

But the rest of that quote is 100% valid. I'll repeat the salient parts of that quote here:

By comparison with many other languages, for songwriting English is a breeze. Lots of opportunities for rhyming lyrics, nice short words that mean a lot so you can relax the musical pace (or not) as you please [...] plus plenty of words ending in convenient vowel sounds that are easily “singable" [...]

You said:

As for short words... Just one example [Carla Bim Bam Toi] - each word in the chorus is one-syllable. So none of that really stands.

All languages can form sentences out of one-syllable words. But here again, English is more versatile than other languages.

I see that [about Boudennat] but everyone keeps repeating his name without actually saying anything about him.

What do think ought to be said about Boudennat?

[Mr Coucou]

I still think (but can't prove) that English is better for songwriting than French.

Here is another difference between English and French:





I don't know if lexical stress affects songwriting. (Its interesting, anyways.)

[Elise]

Aha I see, well for the classic French songs of Elsa and Hardy, the quality is in the lyrics rather than the tune. So reading the lyrics and translation brings that out. The imagery is beautifully poetic.

But it’s fine because there are also lots of great catchy tunes like those of Stromae and Soprano where the lyrics are not as crucial to enjoyment!

Noir Désir - Comme Elle Vient and L’homme pressé. Indochine - L’aventurier. Louise Attaque - Ton invitation. It is in answer to your question:

Has there ever been a world-class French rock band??? Can you name a single one??? Just one???

So yes it’s rock, just in French.

Instead of trying to prove English has this property or that property, I found that when you start listening to foreign music you find there is amazing music in different languages.

What do think ought to be said about Boudennat?

It’s Boutonnat. I’m glad you asked, so what Boutonnat and Mylène did with Alizée reminds me of what Serge Gainsbourg did with France Gall. I’ve wanted to share my thoughts in a post about this.

Interesting Tom Scott video. English has Shakespeare and French has Molière. I think neither would work in the other language.