Is it possible to lose the fluency and accent of your native language.

[Tye]

Yeah, I am waiting for me to say something accidentally in french or something in english with a strong french sound in front of my parents. The look on their faces will be priceless, because they don't now I am studying french.

Deepwaters, I know what you mean about "merci". That is one that I constantly have to stop myself from saying along with quoi.

[Sir Wood]

I think it's just the person adapting to their situation and environment. If you were to move to a southern state for a couple of months or so, you'll probably start talking a little like the natives just so you'd blend in. Move back to your home town and you'll gain your "accent" again.

Same with learning another foreign language. It's the whole immersion process. Since you're motivated to learning the French language, you're subconsciously inserting French into your English.

Besides, sometimes saying a word in another language is easier than saying it in your own native tongue. Also, if you're not used to saying "thank-you" to people, then it's probably mentally easier for you to say "merci" or "gracias." All y'all know what I mean?

[SupaKrupa]

Originally Posted by brad

i always wondered something .. if you are bi-lingual, do you always "think" in your native language?

For example, if you are native French, and also fluent in English, when talking with someone in English .. do you still think in French?

I don't know if that makes sense. Like me, I am semi decent with Spanish (no where near fluent), but when I listen to someone in Spanish, I am always slowly translating what they are say into English in my head.

I've been wondering the same thing ever since I began learning another language. GC can tell you this is all I bug him about . To me, I find it completely ridiculous to be thinking in any language other than english and I think to myself... "In 10 years time when I become fluent in my 2nd language, will I be thinking this in that language? Hell, will what I am thinking right now be in that language in 10 years time?" and conclude: No. I can't help but think what those who speak 4-5 languages go through. Hoping to find out eventually

One of my uni lecturers speaks 5 languages and you can tell she gets words muddled. Her english accent has a lot of italian in it. Another is british and has lived here for 2 years now. He doesn't sound as british as Jamie Oliver.

In the end, I too sometimes pronounce english words frenchie. And to answer your question, I believe accents can change dramatically, but the fluency will only drop very slightly, if at all mostly because of what I just mentioned above: While learning that 2nd language, most of the time you'll still be referring it back to your native tongue. If you don't, you're weird (in a good way).

[marik]

lol maybe i lost my native language accents if i study hard on French!


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[fsquared]

Originally Posted by CFHollister

I do that whenever I'm studying another language. It happened with Spanish, German, and now French. It's like my brain goes into "foreign language mode" and there's only room one languge there at a time. It sure made my one year of German difficult after having had 2 years of Spanish.

Yeah but now, since I've been looking at and listening to a lot of French, I've noticed that I've started reading words (particularly signs) and they're being pronounced as they would be in French in my head without thinking about it. It's kinda fun actually

Yeah, I took Spanish in high school, and then one time I had just come back from Hungary via Paris (so I had tried to learn some French) and then tried to have a conversation in Spanish with someone, and every time I tried to say "Si", it first started to come out in Hungarian, then in French, and THEN in Spanish.

I've met people who have definitely acquired accents in their native languages from speaking another language extensively. Also, I've met native English speakers who have picked up, say, "misuses" of English from other non-native speakers.

Thinking in a foreign language is one of those lofty language learner goals. It can be done, though I don't think I've ever quite done it. One joke is that there are several levels of foreign language fluency. I can't remember the other levels, but the highest level is "can do mental arithmetic". Dreaming in a foreign language is an ambition too. I recall dreaming at the same level of fluency that I actually had (i.e., really broken ).

Another funny thing is that I don't know a lot of French, so when I listen to songs in French, sometimes the filters for other languages will turn on and I'll think I'm hearing some other word in some other language somewhere in the middle.

[Cooney]

fsquared put it quite well to call thinking in a foreign language a "lotfy language learner goal." It certainly is! For me personally, that's a major part of what I consider fluency. You're not just translating the language, you're thinking, hearing, and comprehending in it.

I've been delighted recently to find that, at some points, I'm getting there. There are certain phrases, certain sentance structures, and certain words where I can't translate them, but I know exactly what they mean. I hear them, and I don't have to think - they're just there. Once or twice I've found myself messing up my English sentance construction because I unwittingly try to phrase it in French, which is always good for a laugh :-P I've got a looooong way to go, especially just in terms of vocabulary, but I'm pretty pleased with my progress on the construction itself.

With writing, I'm in a funny spot. I can read things much more easily than I can translate them. Over on the Alizée Beauty Secrets thread I just did a translation for, I could read that article at near the full speed I can read English, but it took me about half-an-hour to write a translation of it. I only had to look up like 10 words (mostly terminology for certain make-up items), but rephrasing the structure to look good in English was a bit wierd :-P Same with the Jessica "Ma Rencontre" thread and Concert Summary thread from a while back. It would take me maybe 20-30 minutes to read them, but 4-6 hours to write translations :-P

[OGRE]

Originally Posted by brad

i always wondered something .. if you are bi-lingual, do you always "think" in your native language?

No. This is the major transition between simply "knowing" a language and becoming truly fluent in a language. When one is fluent, they converse in sentences not words. We can internally translate words, but it doesn't work with sentences. It can still affect choice of words, but that is more of a vocabulary issue as opposed to a translation issue.

[garçoncanadien]

when you know the language well, you recognize words by the shapes of the words, you no longer have to read each word anymore letter by letter (or word by word in asiatic languages).

[OGRE]

Originally Posted by garçoncanadien

you recognize words by the shapes of the words,

Take "Alizée", for instance.
Note the perfect shape.

[espire]

Originally Posted by OGRE

Take "Alizée", for instance.
Note the perfect shape.

That's no joke. Look at how the diagonal line on the Z continues upwards to form the accent égue (spelled that wrong for sure) above the first E. It all flows, even moreso when you use her logo. Then you get a whole bunch of symmetry.