How Degrading...

[Deepwaters]

"And of a love without makeup."

In context:

Hey ! Amigo !
Elle veut du haut, elle veut ta peau
Et sur son dos, un tatouage.
Hey ! Amigo !
Mi amigo, elle veut du beau
Et d'un amour, sans maquillage.

Hey! Friend!
She wants on top, she wants your skin
And on her back, a tattoo.
Hey! Friend!
Mi friend, she wants beauty,
And a love without makeup.

[fsquared]

Here's a link to the Anthony analysis thread for Hey! Amigo! This line appears about halfway down.

http://moi-alizee.us/forums/showthread.php?t=1448
Edc, sorry if my first post sounded curt; I posted the first version kind of as a hunch before adding the confirmatory details.

[OGRE]

Originally Posted by Edcognito

/sigh

would some kind soul please translate this for me? I want to know if I should be offended, or complemented!


Ed

Ed you said:

".....where that just isn't a necessary part of my makeup".

And I replied (yes it's from Hey Amigo):

"Et d'un amour, sans maquillage" (A love without makeup). I was taking your words and weaving it into an Alizéeism. The sex part was not a part of your makeup (in the attribute sense), which was a similar concept in the song since it involved a prostitute and the desire for love without makeup (in the literal sense, but metaphorically meaning a desire for true love and not just sex).

I was tempted to throw another Alizéeism into the mix, from the same song, spun off your Navy career:

Et sur son dos, un tatouage.
And on his back, a tattoo. (I believe the context is feminine in the song)

Because we know all Navy men have tattoos.

As for the song itself, the En Concert version is amazing. Fantastic choreography. YouTube doesn't do it justice, but if you don't have DvD, it's better than nothing. If you can get DvD quality...watch it. Some of the best action closeups of Alizée's face you'll find anywhere.

[AmericanFan]

Apparently some clarification is in order. I think we can all agree that Alizee is extremely attractive. She has it all... She is smart, sexy, apparent sense of humor, great character, looks good with incredible talents too. There are no hidden meanings in the random order of qualities. Excuse me if I missed any.
So... any "normal" guy... (by normal I mean alive and heterosexual) would be attracted to her.
I believe that the attraction is the entire package, not one or two single qualities. I have definitely seen prettier girls, better bodies, and greater "apparent" intelligence etc. but rarely are these qualities within one person. Add that to her personality etc. and she is nothing less than incredible.
The term "nail" was used in a broad sense and a quote from a previous post. Obviously someone with her qualities should be given more consideration than a "one night-er". She is definitely a keeper.
Ironically in our feverish debate few have considered or elaborated on Alizee's interests. She could have nearly any guy she wanted in the world. The truth is that none of us were even on the list. We talk as if we had an option in the first place. In a pathetic way, it is funny.
I would be a liar if I claimed not to admire her or be attracted to her but even if by some miracle the opportunity presented itself, I wouldn't want it to go beyond that. I know that comes across like a contradiction but there are other circumstances to consider.
First and foremost, we both have commitments to others. Not just spouses but children. When we became parents we discarded the luxury of selfishness. That alone supercedes any possible mutual attraction.
Next is the age differential. My wife is MUCH younger than I am. While we have a great marriage (at least for me anyway) there are some issues that I failed to consider before we got together. Little things like our taste in music. Events that I not only witnessed, but participated in, she learned about in school. Either she wasn't born yet or was too young to comprehend world events.
Our visit to the Vietnam Memorial was a very emotional experience for me. Yet for my wife, it was like seeing Hoover Dam or some other national landmark. So with a little imagination you can see we are missing out on some important things that couples should be able to share.
Another is Alizee wants to perform. I want to relax and have fun. I'm done working 24/7. Living the celebrity lifestyle would really suck! I'm content with yelling at kids to get off my lawn!
I'm sure these were some of the same reasons for others. They simply didn't bother with the detailed explanation of why they wouldn't want to be on Alizee's list. Clearly it wasn't the alleged problems I joked about.
I hope that covers it.

[Rev]

Originally Posted by Deepwaters

The deeper beauty the world has to offer IS sexual. One finds parallels and analogues to sex in everything from particle physics to cosmology to mysticism to philosophy. The existence of the universe is lovemaking between Self and Other, and the biological sex act is a reflection of that cosmic reality.

The Dance of Divinity.

Radha, Radha, Radha, Govinda jai.

[fsquared]

Originally Posted by Rev

The Dance of Divinity.

Radha, Radha, Radha, Govinda jai.

Oooook, how multilingual do we have to be to participate in discussions on this forum, huh? Now it's Sanskrit too?

So this is a chant celebrating the Hindu god Govinda/Krishna dancing with his consort Radha, right?

When Radha is addressed with the vocative form "Hare" of her alternate name "Hara", I guess that's where "Hare Krishna" comes from....

[Deepwaters]

Originally Posted by fsquared

Oooook, how multilingual do we have to be to participate in discussions on this forum, huh? Now it's Sanskrit too?

We're a talented, erudite bunch around here.

AF, a lot of that is true for most people here. She's fantasy material for most, and most guys wouldn't want to be involved with her that way, if they really thought about it. I've discussed that before on other threads. One thing you didn't mention is that she'd be gone a lot of the time, off doing pop-star stuff, and would not be there for her lover or husband. A lot of people would find that hard to take.

However, that's not really the point anyway. The point is self-awareness and honesty about one's feelings, which (for I think the third time) are not the same thing as intent. And this meshes with the whole question of attitudes toward sex in general. It's one of my pet peeves.

I have a suspicion, actually, that part of the reason we get guys denying that Alizée arouses any sexual feelings in them, is simply because they respect her, and thanks to the lingering disease of puritanism those two sets of feelings are all too often incompatible.

[AmericanFan]

Originally Posted by Deepwaters

AF, a lot of that is true for most people here. She's fantasy material for most,...

Technically speaking, she is fantasy material for anyone except her husband.

and most guys wouldn't want to be involved with her that way, if they really thought about it. I've discussed that before on other threads. One thing you didn't mention is that she'd be gone a lot of the time, off doing pop-star stuff, and would not be there for her lover or husband. A lot of people would find that hard to take.

That point didn't cross my mind because if I did go that route I'd be with her anyway. In my mind family comes first. Other arrangements could be made to keep parents & kids together in almost any situation if the desire is strong enough. I seriously doubt that she is a part-time mother / wife in favor of her career either. If she was that would seriously damage my opinion of her.
One major point I failed to mention was the subject of sex. I admit that I really enjoy her performances and have a natural attraction towards her, I'm not the sex crazed manic I was at 17. Bottom line is that I'm not in love with her so the sexual part isn't that great of an attraction.

However, that's not really the point anyway. The point is self-awareness and honesty about one's feelings, which (for I think the third time) are not the same thing as intent. And this meshes with the whole question of attitudes toward sex in general. It's one of my pet peeves.

I have a suspicion, actually, that part of the reason we get guys denying that Alizée arouses any sexual feelings in them, is simply because they respect her, and thanks to the lingering disease of puritanism those two sets of feelings are all too often incompatible.

I'm pretty sure that I don't have any visible traces of puritanism in me and seriously doubt that I have any bizarre sexual hangups. Yet I too maintain a great deal of respect for her and her family. If she were to abuse the trust of her family for any reason, the admiration and attraction would instantly vanish.

I'm glad I finally grew up but life seemed a lot more fun before.

You have a unique style of writing. Besides the fact that I agree with 99% of your views, I enjoy your "black & white" style. You would never survive as a politician but you'd make a hell of an author! Thanks!

[Deepwaters]

Originally Posted by AmericanFan

Technically speaking, she is fantasy material for anyone except her husband.

Not necessarily. When I say "fantasy material" I mean someone who is fun to dream about but where there is no intent to act on the attraction. If I were to decide I actually wanted to act on it, the fact that she's married wouldn't stop me. The point I was making is that most people here wouldn't really be interested even if she were single.

That point didn't cross my mind because if I did go that route I'd be with her anyway. In my mind family comes first. Other arrangements could be made to keep parents & kids together in almost any situation if the desire is strong enough. I seriously doubt that she is a part-time mother / wife in favor of her career either. If she was that would seriously damage my opinion of her.

Well, that's a pretty unrealistic appraisal of the situation, I think. One cannot do two things at the same moment. If one has a full-time career, one is, ipso facto, a part-time spouse/parent. I believe in fact that that's a big part of why she dropped out of performing for several years. She had said before this happened that she wanted to have a child at age 20. And she was experienced enough by then to know that she couldn't be a mother to a newborn and do the things she was doing as a performer at the same time. There were also musical considerations I think, and a desire to move in a different direction, but that was surely a big part of it.

There is simply no way that she can have the same amount of time in a day for her family now that she did a year ago. Choices have to be made. She made one when she decided to drop out of music, get married, and have her daughter. She's made another one now in returning to music. There are consequences to both choices. That's reality.

Originally Posted by AmericanFan

I'm pretty sure that I don't have any visible traces of puritanism in me and seriously doubt that I have any bizarre sexual hangups. Yet I too maintain a great deal of respect for her

Well, sure. How can anyone who isn't a complete jerk not respect her? But what I meant was, lingering puritanism makes it impossible for some people to respect her and at the same time think of her in a sexual way. Since they do respect her, they remove the sexuality from their minds.

If she were to abuse the trust of her family for any reason, the admiration and attraction would instantly vanish.

Well, again, you have to look at the reality of the situation. It's not fair to make a blanket statement like that without considering the details. I divorced my wife, with whom I have two daughters, for an excellent reason: she was physically abusive and would try to beat me up on a regular basis. I have no remorse about doing that (my remorse lies in getting involved that deeply with her in the first place). There are other good reasons to end a relationship, too.

In my experience, it's impossible to break up a relationship from the outside unless it's already breaking up from within. Nobody's irresistible, not even me - and if a relationship is solid and happy, she'll say no. But be flattered even so. This is why I have no scruples about going after someone who's married, if the heart is willing.

You have a unique style of writing. Besides the fact that I agree with 99% of your views, I enjoy your "black & white" style. You would never survive as a politician but you'd make a hell of an author! Thanks!

Thank you sir! [Bow]

Since I am an aspiring author and the idea of going into politics makes me cringe, from your lips to the ears of the Gods!

[fsquared]

Originally Posted by Deepwaters

Well, that's a pretty unrealistic appraisal of the situation, I think. One cannot do two things at the same moment. If one has a full-time career, one is, ipso facto, a part-time spouse/parent.

Well, some entertainers try harder than others. Faith Hill and Tim McGraw have talked about going on tour with their three kids and how they do their best to be there as parents and etc....Not disagreeing with your point though.