Alizée's Tattoos

[Rev]

Originally Posted by Rictor

... Tattoos cover up her best features, and they just look like graffiti on human skin to me....

Yes. That is about the best phrasing for most of hers that I have heard (there are a couple that I like).

(At the same time, I do understand why she gets at least some of them).

Originally Posted by Jenny_HRO87

wow. next time I better don't say anything...

I'm sorry Jenny, but I must insist that you DO speak up. Your opinions are valid, and always reasonable.

Originally Posted by Scruffydog777

... but it's kind of a new ball game now that Gregoire is involved...

...my biggest criticism of her tattoos was that someone struggling for success should not take away from their best assets and of course one of hers was her great beauty....

Gregoire is not in charge unless Alizée lets him be, so I will not accuse him of corrupting her. I just hope that he tempers her interest in further tattoos.

[Ray4AJ]

I followed this thread at work today, and I really enjoyed seeing people discussing something on the forum for a change.

I can't remember who said what, but just like a red carpet event where someone critiques what people wear to an event, I don't see anything wrong with people here saying if they personally don't like something Alizée does or says. If I don't like one of her songs, sure, I don't have to listen to it but I can say that I don't like it and why. And that doesn't mean I don't like her anymore or that I'm against her.

I think that inside she is caring and generous, and would be a great person to call a friend. I haven't seen anything to make me think otherwise. I have no way to know if her tattoos have any effect on her singing (or dancing) careers one way or another. I can't see that they would benefit either, but perhaps some casual fans could be turned off by them.

Maybe she really doesn't care what anyone thinks of them.

So whose idea was it to get his and hers tattoos?

[Scruffydog777]

Originally Posted by Jenny_HRO87

And the "I don't think any of the personality traits she presented in her early years were real." Well. Performing in "Pour Laurette" and animating people to donate their blood plates was totally not part of her caring nature she showed several times...............

That's kind of a confusing statement. Performing JAM was Pour Laurette was I'm sure Mylene Farmer's idea. I don't know MF well enough to say she wanted to both help out a nice cause or if she just saw it as a good promotional event too, but I'm sure all Alizee was interested was that it was a charitable event and I think what your saying is Alizee would normally do something for charity in a more discreet kind of way which I agree.

My biggest complaint about the tatoos isn't that I hate them, even though that's right up there, it isn't that her right arm is an ugly mess now, It's that it's so foolish for someone trying for years to achieve success to slowly throw away one of her biggest assets away, tatoo by tatoo.

To be perfectly honest, as far as her career, she just doesn't know what she's doing. She walked away from the lyrics of the most successful female singer in French history along with the great music of Laurant Boutanant which was such a beautiful match for her voice.

Did she not say she'd like to work with MF again? So you know she realizes leaving them was a mistake.

Then with 3 albums, she chose not to dance??????????? Do you think maybe now she realizes what an important role dancing could've played in a music video.

The way her career has gone with her in charge, it wouldn't surprise me a bit if a music video comes out with this next album and has no dancing in it.

I also mentioned her appearence on stage with Psych. It was just plain horrible compared to what she was capable of. More bad choices of her own doing.

I don't know how she had the sense, not to ruin the beauty of her other arm. The rash of tatoos she was getting on that arm seemed to stop with Les Enfoires last year and I think a freind there may have talked some temporary sense into her, but that temporary sense is wearing off.

She just doesn't have a clue as to how much her beauty means to her appeal to fans.

But like I said, the ball game has changed. I said she needed all her assets to achieve success. Well now she has success with DALS. She may now have financial security if she didn't have it before. She also has proven she's a star in her own right. So if she has any success, if her next album sells, might not matter to her any more and now she can do what ever she pleases with her body and I think that's probably the way things stand.

Then there is Gregoire. He caved! I hope for his sake this relationship turns into something lasting for him, for if they seperate, him being a professional dancer will look sort of foolish out there dancing around with tatoos (I'm sure there will be more). IHe puts a lot of time and effort into keeping in shape and if he starts getting a bunch of tatoos, it's not going to do his career any good.

Originally Posted by Melle Katherine

I also agree with Jenny & Karin.

We don't have right to judge her.

If you don't like her tattoos than do not look at them! That's all...

As soon as she puts out a cd, trying to get us to buy it, as soon as she steps out on that stage, trying to get us to vote for her in DALS, like it or not, she becomes a public figure, subject to fans scrutiny, which may not be fair, but that's the way it is, because it's important for fans to know that the guy who is singing butterfly kisses to them one day isn't going up to Greenland to club some baby seals the next. Now that's an over dramatization, but it does show that what happens in a celebrities private life plays an important part in what the fans think of them and in a lot of cases determines whether or not they'll buy their music. So if she is trying to sell us a cd or trying to get us to vote for her, fans will want to know who exactly is this Alizee?

As far as not looking at her tatoos, how can you watch a performance of hers without noticing them? A perfect example was the opening song of Les Enfoires last year, They had a bunch of people in these white robes or capes or whatever they were in a pyramid fashion. They were all covered up except for their faces and Alizee looked like an angel straight from heaven. Then later in the song, they started moving around and uncovering more and one of her tatoos stood out like a sore thumb. Your attention is immediately drawn to something that it perceives as being out of the ordinary. You can't not look at them when she's performing.

It's unfair that she could not have started off her career the way she probably would've liked to, all covered in tatoos and not wearing a jam outfit, instead wearing jeans pulled down revealling boxer shorts, gangsta stlye, hair in corn rows maybe. That way she could've been her true self Then people could've known right at the begining whether wanted to buy what this young lady had to sell and whether we wanted to follow her career or not. Somehow I get the feeling if that had happened, most of us would never had heard of a young woman from Corsica called Alizee. But she got duped into doing something she wasn't truely happy with and we got duped into thinking that incredibly beatiful "person" we saw on stage in front of the Eifel tower was a princess, when she was really a gangsta. Dam you Mylene!

[Karin]

Originally Posted by Scruffydog777

Did she not say she'd like to work with MF again? So you know she realizes leaving them was a mistake.

Wake up. This does not necessarily mean she "made" a mistake...

Originally Posted by Scruffydog777

As far as not looking at her tatoos, how can you watch a performance of hers without noticing them?

Everyone noticed them, yes... but what? Its performance of Alizée, and not her tattoos. If you don't like, don't watch.

You are making from this a 2 years theater. Do you think you will change something? She does not read this forum, and however maybe she knows the negative opinions on her tattoos, it will change nothing...

Really if you can't talk about something else, just only her tattoos again again and again... why simply you don't let her be, when the most things which she made are mistake? She left Mylene and Laurent - her mistake, tattoos - her mistake, etc... And what if Mylene made a mistake somewhere? Maybe the all Alizée "mistakes" are reason of Mylene mistakes.... as a simple physics - every action causes a reaction.

Alizée must had good reasons why she left them. If at least some of the rumors were true, I fully understand her. Mylene wanted radically change her image... would you like to see Alizée doing what is now doing Miley Cyrus? The half of the world cant watch her, how horrible she is - most her presentation in events and concerts. Really would you like to see Alizée in that way? Tattoos compared to THIS are really the less important thing.

[Scruffydog777]

Originally Posted by Karin

Wake up. This does not necessarily mean she "made" a mistake...

3 flops = 1 big mistake and she realizes that now.

Originally Posted by Karin

Everyone noticed them, yes... but what? Its performance of Alizée, and not her tattoos. If you don't like, don't watch.

You are making from this a 2 years theater. Do you think you will change something? She does not read this forum, and however maybe she knows the negative opinions on her tattoos, it will change nothing...

In case you don't know what a forum is, it's a place for discussion, pro or con, good or bad and that's what "we" are doing right now. What do you want. This to be a site where nothing negative can be said about her. Where suggesting she made a mistake is taboo????

Originally Posted by Karin

Alizée must had good reasons why she left them. If at least some of the rumors were true, I fully understand her. Mylene wanted radically change her image... would you like to see Alizée doing what is now doing Miley Cyrus? The half of the world cant watch her, how horrible she is - most her presentation in events and concerts. Really would you like to see Alizée in that way? Tattoos compared to THIS are really the less important thing.

So the two choices you are giving me are an Alizée covered in tattoos or Miley Cyrus who I can't stand the sight of?

I'm going to have to get back to you on that one!

[Karin]

Originally Posted by Scruffydog777

In case you don't know what a forum is, it's a place for discussione!

You are not making here a discussion, you are making here a "I'm right, and you not!" thread. But typical for americans, only you need to have right, and the rest are wrong.

Originally Posted by Scruffydog777

3 flops = 1 big mistake and she realizes that now.

You are not Alizée, you dont know how it is. Maybe she doesn't sell milions, but I don't think the last albums were mistake. But cause you cant see the positive side of each album, you can't understand.

Would like to see, if you would be such hero, and tell Alizée directly to her eyes all her "mistakes".

[Marka]

Originally Posted by Melle Katherine

I also agree with Jenny & Karin.
We don't have right to judge her.

If you don't like her tattoos than do not look at them! That's all...

(responding to Jenny, Karin and MK)

Scruffy has in the last few pages of this thread raised some very valid points that go far beyond him "judging" her, and far beyond his personal taste and dislike of her tattoos. If you are so against judging anyone and so acceptable of everything, why don't you also accept his views and respond to them in a similar coherent and respective manner?
Don't misunderstand me, but judging by what I have seen in this thread written lately, your replies against Scruffy's posts can be lumped together into the same category of almost hysterically repeating the same thing over and over and over ... and over again ("don't judge her", "she wants to be free", "it is her choice", ...)!

Yes, of course you are correct. But Alizée is not a princess nor does she live in a fairyland, nor will she be "forever young". Consider Scruffy's age - it is evident that his perspective of her is different from yours, and also he relates to her differently than you. From my perspective, he is realistic and his points are well-founded. Of course one can disagree with him and also make valid counter points, but hey, that is one of the reasons why we are here!

(from now on I am going to respond to Karin's posts)

Originally Posted by Karin

You are not making here a discussion, you are making here a "I'm right, and you not!" thread. But typical for americans, only you need to have right, and the rest are wrong.

Nope, Scruffy is not trying to make such a thread. You are. It is also very kind of you to insult him. And who anyway is "the rest"? Europeans? Australians? Chinese? Would you throw such comments also against me, stating that I think that I am always right just because I come from the more "barbaric" part of Europe (Balkans)? I've had the chance to exchange more than few words with Americans both online and in real life, and I didn't really sense that they were hinting that they are always right - yet again, I might be picky with whom I speak

Dignity and control of your emotions, Karin, show some! And especially do not insult people who do not deserve being insulted.

Originally Posted by Karin

You are not Alizée, you dont know how it is.

Poor, poor Zée!

Originally Posted by Karin

Maybe she doesn't sell milions, but I don't think the last albums were mistake. But cause you cant see the positive side of each album, you can't understand.

Scruffy is trying to look at the things from a more global viewpoint, meaning that he is trying to go beyond his personal taste. And yes, globally, all three albums were flops, no matter what we think about them, and Scruffy is trying to analyse, how Alizée's own acts (including her tattoos) might have influenced here career (or how her career would have been had she not been picked up by MF and LB). Nothing insulting here, nor is he implying that he considers himself 100% correct.

Oh, and comparing what Alizée might have been had she stayed with MF with Miley Cyrus is plain nonsense. Do you fear to see Alizée portraying a hooker or a slut? How many times have we seen MF dressed as a hooker or being naked? Many times. But it was always done with dignity and in a non-intrusive manner (that is, consistent with the topic of her artistic world). I don't think Alizée would be portrayed as a slut, and even if one would try to do such a thing, she would retain her dignity and her persona. This is the main difference between Zée and Miley - former has dignity, latter not.

Anyway, if you want a bone to chew on, MF is one of the persons that made me notice the fact that I respect hookers (those who do their job on their own accord and not because they are forced into it, of course), and that male sexuality is actually quite demonized. "Artists" like Miley Cyrus can jump around and show their naked asses for weeks and I won't even turn my head, while just hearing Hey Amigo or seeing the "slutty" JEAM dance makes me think. How many artists have such powers?

Originally Posted by Karin

Would like to see, if you would be such hero, and tell Alizée directly to her eyes all her "mistakes".

Hopefully she would handle them better than you.

[Karin]

Originally Posted by Marka

do not insult people who do not deserve being insulted.

hm hm... but when I was insulted here, that was ok yea? hm, fine...

Originally Posted by Marka

Dignity and control of your emotions

I controlled my emotions for really long time.

Originally Posted by Marka

Hopefully she would handle them better than you.

If you mean my grammar mistakes, I know I make them. And what? I write how it came in my head.

[daniel1985]

Originally Posted by Rictor

One of the reasons I've been able to get over being so crazy about her over the years has been those ugly tattoos. I absolutely despise tattoos and they definitely ruin her look. Tattoos cover up her best features, and they just look like graffiti on human skin to me. Scruff, maybe it's not possible to "talk sense" into her. Maybe this is just who Alizée is. I don't think any of the personality traits she presented in her early years were real. And if they were, I don't think that's who she is anymore anyway. It's fine, I've moved on. I'll miss the way I used to feel about her, but you can't change people.

I agree with a lot of what you have said. I may be moving off topic, but I have been thinking recently: If Alizee was not really as we originally perceived her; If she was just a beautiful young girl with a really good singing voice, but the sweet / perfect image was somewhat acted, what did I really 'fall in love' with (if anything)? Also, could the early years 'Alizee package' be manufactured with any cute young girl who can sing well, provided she learns to act super sweet and kind? (To clarify, I'm not saying that Alizee is not sweet and kind, but the early years did NOT give a true representation of Alizee - most of us agree on that, I think)

(Apologies. I probably should have posted on a different thread.)

[Jenny_HRO87]

Originally Posted by Marka

Scruffy has in the last few pages of this thread raised some very valid points that go far beyond him "judging" her, and far beyond his personal taste and dislike of her tattoos. If you are so against judging anyone and so acceptable of everything, why don't you also accept his views and respond to them in a similar coherent and respective manner?

looking at my post I don't see anything offensive in that. Maybe Scruffy thought I would know how much he hates tattoos but well... looks like I didn't. I might have known that he doesn't like them but I wasn't aware how much he actually hates them. I don't visit AAm so very often.

So what do you do if you post something "harmless" like a video containing Alizée's new tattoo and the first thing you read is something which basically says "What kind of crap is she doing again?". You react. I wasn't entirely sure what exactly made him so upset and what on earth he meant with Grégoire talking sense into her. So that's about my first post.

And so I later explained my point of view and that's all. And then I left the discussion because I know I would just getting tired of this discussion. So what exactly did I do wrong?

I accept Scruffy's views. But I have a different point of view and I have the same right to stick to my view as Scruffy who sticks to his. And if he's allowed to make his point clear over and over again why am I not? Yeah maybe I wrote something similar before - maybe I can't remember - but does it make my opinions less valid? But to be honest I don't like endless discussions because looking at Scruffy's endless posts - and he's very good in arguing I give him that - I'm generally a person who doesn't like endless discussions (when I know that I can never say the right thing anyway) and then I'm easily getting tired of giving contra, there will always another thing to bring up etc. and in this case for the sake of this place and that we all want to live in peace I left the discussion. And I had no intention to reply another time but I had to react to your post because I had to put things right ok. And atm I'm totally not sorry about it.

I'm out.