A Actual Message From A Actual French Person!

[Roman]

Here's my attempt at translation. It would probably make more sense if Chuck were to tell us what he said first that this is a response to.

The dimension of your message is a bit daunting. Usually, it's the French who natter on and manipulate concepts, and the Americans who act. [Hard to translate, but I think I get the basic idea. Obviously he doesn't know me. :-P][I assume you wrote something about doing some heavy duty promotion or the like, though you won't tell us. :-P]
If there are many fans like this where you come from, no doubt Alizée will end up going there to sing!!

Globally, for someone of another culture and so far from the action, I think that you have a good grasp of the situation. However, there are a few important clarifications that I would like to bring up if you are going to act quickly.

1)We don't know the level of Alizée's motivation to do tours and sing abroad.
There is a very typical development among the French that foriegners haven't a clue about; people search more and more for a quality of life, a happy domesticism, to the detriment of a professional career and the accumulation of riches and material goods. Specifically, I don't think that she has ambitions of grandeur and excessive success. She wants to be able to exercise her passion for music and live with that, without sacrificing what she is to her family, her daughter, her friends, her style of living...

2) Alizée is naturally someone who is secretive and reserved, even aloof. That is not a posture that she learned from Mylène.
Thus it is, she has great difficulty communicating with her fans in France; truthfully, she hasn't really communicated with them for quite some time. One could go on about this. I think she has a bit of a complex because she had to stop her studies very early, while most of the famous young singers of her generation (Camille, Nolwen Leroy, Emilie Simon, Pauline...) got their diplomas, are also authors, composers, sing a lot in English and have a good grasp of the language.
In this vein, there is a very interesting interview on YouTube ... on LCI with Yves Simon in three parts. I think in the universe of French music, one can not find two personalities more different than Yves Simon and Alizée.

Therefore, if the album is to have success in France, Alizée will first look to regain her public here, and I doubt that she is going to embark on an American adventure...risky.

If the album is a flop here, and that will probably mean that it was bad... [really not sure about that part] This is the end, My only friend, the end!! Alizée will not fight to the death. We saw that well with Psychédélices; nothing was done to try to save a scrap of a tour in France.
She would easily be able to end up the cover girl of a large French style or cosmetic company. I suspect she has already taken a part of their revenues. In France, in spite of the absence of current presence, she is still classed among the 10 or 12 most beautiful women in the world. The proof is that she still has a real notoriety and admirers.

If the album has little success at home, which seems rather likely even if it is good, (here Edie [Sedgewick] is totally unknown, Château Marmont ditto, it is the [financial] crisis in general, the crisis in the music sector in particular, Alizée the singer is not at all in fashion...) So, the foreign fans can hope that Alizée will look elsewhere for a new audience for her album. Further, following point 1) that I mentioned above, she may very well go there for the fun of it, to have experiences or satisfy a desire, without that necessarily bringing her money or notoriety.
To clarify some details that you brought up, I had just about wished for it, for her salvation and for the foreign fans, that Alizée slid a real song in English into her album. This would make more sense than the song in Spanish, but I doubt that Alizée would take the risk of disappointing her Mexican fans. So both... [It would help to have the context of knowing what you had said to him first.]

A word about the forum to avoid indiscretions.
I am not someone well thought of or influential at LillyTown because of my position toward Mylène.
It must be said, the forum is in the grip of nostalgia for the Gourmandises era, or even old fans of (forever fans of) Mylène Farmer. Thus, without Mylène, no success can be had... they would like to return to the golden age [of Alizée]!!! Still, it is astonishing to note that more than 60% of the members prefer the old Alizée!!!
One must especially say nothing against MF and keep a low profile. Some influential "fundamentalists" make up a corps to "torpedo" anyone bringing up a bit of contradiction. It's really all of France that I hate. There's a little "aristocracy" of the old times and of the "knowledge" that will not even respond to you because you are foreign and because you don't have the ability to bring anything of interest to the current conversation. [I must admit that I am somewhat guilty of that as well. When I read people posting things like, I hope Alizée does more of those dances, I feel like there is such a gulf between what new people know about Alizée and what I have learned that I don't even know where to begin. And, for me, so much has happened that is so emotionally charged. It is difficult to talk about certain things, especially because of how her career has gone. It would just end up being negative, as we can see from this whole post and I don't want to come off anti-Alizée or unnecessarily insult her by explaining why what we hoped for didn't happen. Even mentioning that possibility does that for people who are infatuated with Alizée. I remember being in the mesmerizing grip of her awesomeness. I can feel it again every time I go back and watch some videos or something. She gave it a shot and that is great. And eventually we will even get a new album.]
[Chuck, please translate your own part.]
While I'm quite ready to share, above all, don't ever utter this on the forum. OMG!!
Mylène gave Alizée everything on a silver platter, and this little ingrate abandoned her shabbily. That's the dogma of Lilly Town.

The forum is neither dynamic nor creative, but

BUT, if there is a leak, a bit of non-official first hand information, it's certain to show up here almost immediately.
I have the impression that with this experience, Alizée has learned to be wary of her own forums; one day she is praised to the sky like a goddess and the next day dragged through the mud like a whore...
If things are not going well, with the scorn and bitterness accumulated, that will end up as usual a blood bath worthy of a Napoleonic campaign... everyone tearing apart his neighbor with delight (it's really funny), to the final dissolution. [Hey just like happens at AF from time to time and probably here and in forums in general from what I've heard. It is sad though. ]

Suggestion 1: I am completely convinced of that. [Uh, what exactly?] I almost proposed a channel on YouTube compiling all the interesting creations, but ultimately I abandoned that. The Americans would be without doubt the best placed to create a "world" channel compiling all the English and Spanish translations from all the albums, video creations and/or high quality remixes.

Suggestion 2: This is rather contradictory. She has done that before for certain titles, with the translation problems you noted. The real fans always prefer the French version. That will represent a certain cost, of labor that is. Maybe you are right; there is perhaps a real opportunity for that type of album which would allow everyone to understand the lyrics.

Suggestion 3: mine lol
That which menaces Alizée the most in France is a lack of credibility due to the persistence of her Lolita image. She's a poor girl without any brains, just good for shaking her rear, remote controlled by MF like a marionette, incapable of really singing, not an author, not a musician, with songs for young girls... even her success abroad is completely denied.
And there, the American fans can intervene here in France to strengthen her credibility.
There are going to be articles on the net, with the possibility for Internet users to respond and post messages. The links will certainly be on Lilly Town.
It would be good if the fans could come and write a little message in English, to say simply that Alizée is a real musician, that they liked Psychédélices, and that they are waiting impatiently for the new album... 2 or 3, not more. There's no need to say that she is an angel, a goddess... nor ...

the rest later...

Good luck Alizée America with your enterprises,

[lefty12357]

Thank you very much for the translation, Roman ! You especially cleared up a few spots I was not clear about. And I removed the author's name from your post because it turns out he apparently prefers to remain anonymous.

[Alex]

Thank You Roman for the translation; I agree with Lefty we appreciate your work, because now we can understand those "unclear spots" and "key words" that helps us understand better this letter. Merci Beaucoup!

[pepelepew]

Thanks Roman! Great job. It sounds almost impossible for Alizee to get back into the good graces of France. It also sounds like she never had the respect as an artist. A sex symbol and puppet of Mylene. I also realize this is one persons opinion though it is the most intimate response by a Frenchmen that I have witnessed about Alizee in particular. She does need to hear that she is respected as an artist in the US and that we are not stuck on Lolita.

[Chuck]

All hail Roman! Wow! Yes, he nailed it!

A lot of the original french letter got removed because (unnamed correspondent) was concerned that other LT people would see his name here and tattle. (Lefty was Right!) I'm still trying to patch things up with him. We'll see. If he checks here again, I hope he doesn't see this and assume I'm further exploiting or betraying him. I'm not. I'm just trying to fill in some of the missing parts of the conversation.

As I mentioned to Roman a couple posts above, I've taken to writing out such a long passage in mostly-english first, then translating to french. I hope to get past that point soon, but as it is I'm still a bit rusty. Trying to write directly in french, I was wasting a lot of time by rechecking spellings, conjugations, or genders of french words that I'd wind up not even using. So this is my english draft here.

Anyway, just to help fill in the "mystery parts" here's what I wrote to (unnamed correspondent) that prompted his long (and volatile) response, so kindly and expertly translated by Roman. If somebody wants, I'll send you my french version of this, but I don't want to crash the server by making this post twice as long.
The bold/italic typing is notes i'm adding now, where needed for additional clarification.

This is what i'd written:

My friend,

Sorry for the delay. You posed "La seule vrai question": "Est ce que sa nouvelle musique peut plaire chez vous...?" Then my answer got a bit long. That's why i'm sending to you it via PM now (and I dodged a bullet by doing so, it seems) , but feel free to post any part or all of this on your forum. (apparently, that's NOT going to happen, my opinions would be very unpopular there.)

Let me first say that I joined this forum (LT) for a number of reasons:
1)huge fan;
2)I wanted to work on my french (but those language forums are sooo boooring!);
3)to help others in AlizéeAmerica with their questions about Alizée;
and finally
4)I think I was hoping all along that someone would ask me questions like yours! (I just didn't expect it so soon. See #2!)


tu as dit:
«Simplement, elle tient à chanter dans sa langue...»
TR: you had said: "Simply, she holds to singing in her language..."

Are you sure of that? If so, that will be a hindrance. How many French people can understand English? How many English people understand French? I Don't know either answer (and I really would like to!) But I do know that very few Americans (less than 1%) know any French. Try Haiti?

Perhaps she feels anti-english because she'd tried english lyrics before without much success? Believe me, those songs failed for a lot of reasons. Differences in culture, combined with errors of translation, and each of those songs turned into massive miscalculations!

The Fatal Flaws in some of her previous English-language releases:
"Yoopidoo" was just like a cute rabbit in a busy highway. No chance.
"Amelie" in english was beautiful, but the words made very little sense to us!
"I'm Fed Up" was okay, but too sweet, too poppy. And radio stations couldn't play it for fear of complaints from fish lovers!
"I'm Not Twenty" might have been a hit, except for one thing: In most of the US, young people aren't allowed to drink alcohol until 21 years. Stupid, but that's been the rule for decades. Thus, most young people here wish they were 21! (And once they are, they don't know how to drink. Problems ensue!)
These failures to "cross over" may have discouraged her. But as you can see, they're each easily explained! Other songs, like "Gourmandises" or "C'est Trop Tard" if translated, might have fared 100 times better!

tu disais:
«et n'a pas du tout envie de devenir la Shakira française; une blonde platinée qui fait du contorsionnisme en bas résille et chante en anglais!!!»
TR: you said: "and she does not at all want to become a French Shakira; a platinum blonde who does contortionism in fishnet stockings and sings in English!!!" (Also, U.C. had earlier suggested that Alizée might switch to a cropped "Edie Sedgewick" haircut for the new disc.) I reply jokingly:
Alizée en bas résille. Faisant du contorsionnisme. Hmmm. Un moment. (Quelle image!) Mais non! That style would not work for Alizée, besides, in America, we've already got that. And Shakira--she is no one to emulate--she's already gone as far as she's going to go. "Blonde platinée?" Non! A haircut like Edie? Not necessary. I saw the discussion here (LT) on "which haircut you prefer", (the Juliette, the 50/60, or the bangs) and I agree with the results, that order. I like the bangs, but Lilly's huge forehead is so beguiling, she should not try to hide that. And actually, while we like legs, if Alizée were to perform on American TV, she would be accepted much better in a long, sparkling gown.

tu disais:
«La seule vrai question est;
Est ce que sa nouvelle musique peut plaire chez vous, parce que, en revanche, il est inutile de continuer à phantasmer sur la "petite danseuse en costume marin".»
TR: you said: "The only true question is; could her new music please people where you are, because on the other hand, it is useless to continue fantasizing about "the little dancer in the sailor suit."

Does her new music please YOU in France? Yesterday, (another now-nameless LT member) proudly wrote: «Psychedelices, ça va faire 6 mois que je ne l'écoute plus...» Hey (other guy), hey, France! I'm not criticising, just saying..
(The other guy on LT had said "Psychedelices, it's almost six months since I've listened to it"

Could her new music please american ears? For me and existing fans, certainly. To attract any new fans? I don't know. But to attain any great success in US, it would have to be in English. I'm not personally suggesting it, just stating fact. Maybe after she became well-known here, americans would accept her French. We (AAm'ers) love her music plenty, and overwhelmingly prefer her singing in French, but most of us "fat, lazy americans" will always prefer songs in English. Yes, as you may have suspected, Americans as a group are pretty ignorant of the rest of the world. But at least we're beginning to realize that.

Where Roman said "Chuck, please translate your own part", this is it:
LE COSTUME MARIN.
I know this opinion won't be popular, but I almost think Alizee would've been better off without the années Mylènéenne . Seriously! Me, my very favorite works of Alizee's are Psyché and "Ma Prière" sur Graines de Stars. Think about it--"Moi Lolita" was a big hit, right? Then things started sliding from there. When her career should have been going up, up, up! Sure, MF/LB/AJ did some fine songs together, which we all love, but with Alizee's talent, better songwriters should've been able to match her. And that costume marin, albeit cute, is going to haunt her for a long time. For her future success, and to be taken seriously in the US, it might have been better if she'd never worn that! (this is what elicited U.C.'s very stern warning that one must never speak against Mylène on the LTF, even though he agrees)


FRENCH ONLY.
If she will only sing in French, ok. There are some foreign-language musicians who are known in the US. But not very many. King Sunny Ade, Khaled, and Rammstein come to mind. And yes, some people here are still fans of Edith Piaf. But on radio or record-sales charts? The last hit in the US with any French lyrics was probably "Michelle" by the Beatles. Or Rush's 1978 song "Circumstances" with "plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose" in the refrain.

Then you look at a song like "Lillytown", which makes reference to Camus, DeBeauvoir, Magritte, Tennessee Williams, Lennon & Gandhi, and more... Remember, we're pretty ignorant here. Some would dig it, but most would have no idea at all! Still, the beauty and bounce of the song are hard to resist.
With "50/60", maybe more luck, but perhaps depending on people remembering or learning a bit about Edie. And what do those numbers mean, anyway? A Mystery! (Et qf j'ecoute "Quelle est la poubelle?", but that's my problem.)

I'd love to continue dissecting songs, but not now, it's late and I've written too much as it is. But I have two suggestions I'd like to toss out and finish with:

>> Suggestion 1: WEB. So far most American & Canadian fans only know of Alizee through the magic of the internet. (that's why some see the "old Alizee" as being just as real as "now Alizee".
The best way to support a new album is still to tour. But now, with YouTube and forums, the internet is the next best way! If there were videos to accompany each of the new songs, all on one website. That would really reach a lot more people. (Could there possibly even be subtitles on those vids, like in movies, translating the lyrics into Spanish and English? That would help draw people immensely!) Such a site could also post more clips of interviews, possibly even video messages from Lilly directly to her fans!
Heyyy. Such a site could be, maybe, your site here, and ours in the US! She's computer-savvy. She should know. If she'd coordinate with her existing supporters, rather than practically ignoring us, she'd be much more popular everywhere! Her most dedicated fans (so devastated by her concert cancellations - see * below) could at least feel a little closer to their idol.

>> Suggestion 2: (I'm not saying I want this, I'm only saying it would help CD sales)
What if she just did her entire albums, as she likes (mostly or all in French), then released English-only and Spanish-only versions also? - Exactly the same, but all the lyrics of all the songs replaced with Spanish or English? (I hope I'm not suggesting blasphemy here..) I don't think it sound too outre - In fact, a lot of Americans, once interested in Alizee, would want to buy both discs, in their favorite language and French! Maybe that would be the same in England, too?

_____________________
* (Cancelling her concerts in October and March didn't help her image much. But before you'd mentioned it, I didn't know how much it really angered lots of North American fans, too. Many had already booked flights and hotels to Paris, only to be devastated. That was expensive, too, and a few were hit quite hard financially. Some quit the forum in disgust, and I don't think they've come back.)

So that's it for now. Hope i haven't bored you too much!

Regards, Chuck

And that's all I wrote.

Originally Posted by pepelepew

Thanks Roman! Great job. It sounds almost impossible for Alizée to get back into the good graces of France. It also sounds like she never had the respect as an artist. A sex symbol and puppet of Mylène. I also realize this is one person's opinion though it is the most intimate response by a Frenchman that I have witnessed about Alizée in particular. She does need to hear that she is respected as an artist in the US and that we are not stuck on Lolita.

Yes, pépé!

[Roman]

Doing some occassional translations is all I can do. I hope I can continue at all.

By the way, I disagree with your assessments about her English songs. Obviously they weren't popular enough, but your reasons largely don't make sense to me. Maybe you're right though. After all, I liked all her songs, though it may have taken a few listens for some.

About the cancellations etc., you don't know the half of it. I also don't agree with regard to Mylène. She created what drew me to Alizée. Have your opinions, but she is the genius entertainer (albeit I don't like everything Mylène has done for herself).

[Chuck]

Originally Posted by Roman

By the way, I disagree with your assessments about her English songs. Obviously they weren't popular enough, but your reasons largely don't make sense to me. Maybe you're right though. After all, I liked all her songs, though it may have taken a few listens for some.

Roman, I wasn't saying I don't like those 4 songs. (I do, and my kids prefer them over the French versions.) I was merely trying to point out why they never got played on american radio. In the competitive US music biz (now slowly dying from its fear of anything different) those songs just didn't stand a chance.

Above I'd compared "Yoopidoo" to a cute bunny in the road. The real expression I was going for is "like a deer in the headlights", but I didn't know if they'd heard that one in France.

What I'm "driving at" is that all four of those songs were deer and fawns, about to get run over by semis. A corporate radio programmer wouldn't have put them out on the US radio highway, whether they like deer or not.

(---Boy, that didn't clear up anything!)

[Roman]

Originally Posted by Chuck

Roman, I wasn't saying I don't like those 4 songs. (I do, and my kids prefer them over the French versions.) I was merely trying to point out why they never got played on american radio. In the competitive US music biz (now slowly dying from its fear of anything different) those songs just didn't stand a chance.

Above I'd compared "Yoopidoo" to a cute bunny in the road. The real expression I was going for is "like a deer in the headlights", but I didn't know if they'd heard that one in France.

What I'm "driving at" is that all four of those songs were deer and fawns, about to get run over by semis. A corporate radio programmer wouldn't have put them out on the US radio highway, whether they like deer or not.

(---Boy, that didn't clear up anything!)

Don't worry. I don't really need clarity of that form. We have differing opinions about her songs. Of course. There are hundreds of millions of people in the US. We can hardly speak for them all. Though yeah, her songs did not get played in the US. It's really all mute at this point.

Alizée wanted to take a shot at doing it her way and she took her shot. Good for her and a good album. If that's as far as she wants to be involved, well, that's her life. There are at least 9 years of understanding what the deal is with Alizée. That can take a long time to explain, not that I know her or anything.

If you want to do something, stay focused and remember it was your choice.

[Chuck]

One more thing, Roman - you re-mentioned those cancellations. So had my (unnamed correspondent) earlier, and I'm so new here I didn't know the full story. So I looked it up on the AlizeeAmerica forums (world's greatest reference center), and read the accounts people had posted. It was heart-wrenching! Including your contributions! (omg, I'm so sorry)

So after reading that, I had to mention it in my letter to France. That's how it wound up there. I almost feel fortunate I didn't know about this Alizee person back then!

(for what it's worth, the unnamed correspondent isn't too mad at me anymore, homeland security threat level back down to pale ochre.)

[lefty12357]

Yeah, I think if you asked 1000 people, you'd get at least 500 different answers. I'm one of the people who never cared much for the English songs. In fact, I never listen to them. I always preferred the French versions, even when I didn't know hardly a word of French. The music always comes first for me, but lyrics are almost as important to me. I wonder how many of my fellow Americans out there have the same inclinations as me? I know I'm not the only one. There is no such thing as "one" in nature.

Part of the charm in discovering Alizée's music for me was the puzzle it offered me in figuring out what it was she was really singing. Each song provides me with that extra bit of a sense of discovery and adventure. And I have found both MF's and Jean Fauque's words very interesting. Most of these songs are not just stupid pop lyrics.

The other thing I would say is, I think the English versions of the MCE songs were written for people whose SECOND language is English. These songs were probably not meant for the USA or maybe even the UK specifically. Just my opinion...

Anyway, having said all that, I hope she has included an English song on her new album. Not a translated song or alternate version, but one that was written in English. I know it's doubtful, but still I hope...