What the French think of Americans

[Capn]

as much as I agree no one should be able to take away their right to do so I can't imagine why someone would do something like that to a flag I would never do that to someone else's flag its just not right thats all we are saying

[nurvonic]

Originally Posted by rwd716

Well, just by them putting my Flag in that barrel of oil, prolly does indicate a dig (not a good one). I dunno, I still never like it when people discrace a flag. I would never do that to anyone's flag, especially an ally's. I can't say what I would do if I saw someone do that in real life--it definately wouldn't turn out good. Ugg, Imma stop now b4 this gets ugly.

precisely what i felt. disgracing the flag was uncalled for and made me think ill of melissa mars even more.

[lefty12357]

Originally Posted by Piblokto

Well said. And thinking in terms of "the" Americans, "the" French or "the" Whatever doesn't make any sense to me. Unless you think that foreign countries are inhabited with clones...

Excellent point, Piblokto. I'm glad everyone is taking this in stride.

[Deepwaters]

A flag is an emblem of a country, a nationality, a government -- not of a population. If you disapprove of the policies of a country, nationality, or government strongly, and want to make a symbolic, theatrical statement to that effect, using the flag for the purpose makes sense.

Of course it would be offensive to a patriot; however, I think that's part of the idea.

[nurvonic]

Originally Posted by Deepwaters

A flag is an emblem of a country, a nationality, a government -- not of a population. If you disapprove of the policies of a country, nationality, or government strongly, and want to make a symbolic, theatrical statement to that effect, using the flag for the purpose makes sense.

im not going to get into why, but i strongly disagree with you on that one.

[Killian]

I have never fully understood the strong feelings some people have to their flags, particularly Americans. I am not trying to stereotype, but America is the only country where I have seen houses brandishing their countries flag. As Deep said, it is a symbol of the country itself, but not the people. I understand it in sporting events, when people want to demonstrate their nationality and pride in the team. But, that is showing pride in the team and not in the flag.
The whole feeling that a flag is everything, and that damaging one is an attack on an entire people misses me. It may be that I was not raised in such a culture, but I really don't get it.

[Capn]

Originally Posted by Deepwaters

A flag is an emblem of a country, a nationality, a government -- not of a population. If you disapprove of the policies of a country, nationality, or government strongly, and want to make a symbolic, theatrical statement to that effect, using the flag for the purpose makes sense.

Of course it would be offensive to a patriot; however, I think that's part of the idea.

That is so untrue the flag symbolizes everything your country stands for including its government and people. The people are part of the government and make up the government and its policies. By attacking our flag you are attacking our government our people and our beliefs it is not just a symbolic protest it is an attack on that nation as a whole politically and socially.

[nurvonic]

Originally Posted by Killian

I have never fully understood the strong feelings some people have to their flags, particularly Americans. I am not trying to stereotype, but America is the only country where I have seen houses brandishing their countries flag. As Deep said, it is a symbol of the country itself, but not the people. I understand it in sporting events, when people want to demonstrate their nationality and pride in the team. But, that is showing pride in the team and not in the flag.
The whole feeling that a flag is everything, and that damaging one is an attack on an entire people misses me. It may be that I was not raised in such a culture, but I really don't get it.

so someone disgraces your flag, its a slight against your government and not ireland as a whole? i think the flag represents anything and everything of that particular country, especially its people.

maybe you've never seen your flag burnt while people cheered and stomped on it, or seen it dumped in a vat of oil, so thats why you dont understand, but i find it very offensive.

this is getting a little off point. bottom line, the song is offensive to americans and thats the whole purpose.

[Killian]

Originally Posted by nurvonic

so someone disgraces your flag, its a slight against your government and not ireland as a whole? i think the flag represents anything and everything of that particular country, especially its people.

maybe you've never seen your flag burnt while people cheered and stomped on it, or seen it dumped in a vat of oil, so thats why you dont understand, but i find it very offensive.

this is getting a little off point. bottom line, the song is offensive to americans and thats the whole purpose.

I suppose the circumstances have to be taken into account.

If it was burned, or whatever, during the troubles as a kind of attack on the Irish Republic that would be, in a sense, offensive as that is how it was meant. But it also has to be considered that the people doing it are scum who shouldn't be given the satisfaction of your reaction.

But, if it is done as a skit or a joke, and is in good humour, I don't see the problem at all to be honest, and that is what I was talking about.

[Deepwaters]

Originally Posted by nurvonic

so someone disgraces your flag, is a slight against your government and not ireland as a whole? i think the flag represents anything and everything of that particular country, especially its people.

The problem with that idea is that there have been periods in America's history (and that of any other country) where the nation was seriously divided, and in America, it sometimes happens that the flag is seized by one side of the conflict or the other and used to augment its own position, implying a lack of patriotism for the other. What's more, the side inclined to do that is typically the one least entitled to claim to represent America in terms of the nation's founding ideals. The first time I experienced this, I was quite young, not old enough yet to take part in the conflict, but old enough to see it and form opinions about it. The end result for me has been a separation in my mind of the flag as symbol from the ideals America was founded on, and that the flag is supposed to represent, but at that time most emphatically DID NOT.

An experience like that stays with you. I am inclined to agree with Samuel Johnson: patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.