Alizée and lip syncing, thoughts?

[lefty12357]

Originally Posted by Corsaire

Lefty, until proven otherwise, the RV part is from his studio album. You can even hear the hissing imperfection near the end. If you suggest that they would reuse some voice track (and maybe some instrumental tracks) from a studio recording that was used for the production of a RV album but then would make sure that Alizée’s performance was done in an “almost” live condition in a studio, so that they could play the whole thing back in that fake setting, I am sorry to say that this makes little sense to me.

Well, some clarification is in order. I wasn't addressing this particular performance at all. I was speaking in general because I was responding to a statement you had made that appeared to be general in nature. Sorry for the mixup.

Originally Posted by Corsaire

So far, I checked 4 other performances from “Les Années bonheur” and they all looked pretty genuinely live, with voice breaking when pushed too far, and all. Again, until proven otherwise, RV and Alizée’s performance was not live, and my opinion is that it was clearly set up so that people would think it was live. People can conclude what they want, but I really don’t see how I am not supposed to feel deceived by this.

Again, I wasn't addressing this particular performance. Trust me, I do understand how you feel about the deception issue. I have played in bands and performed live, and I have run sound for bands. I know the hard work and effort people put in to do it. It used to frustrate me when people were fooled by lip-syncing. I guess I've learned to somewhat accept it.

Originally Posted by Corsaire

So, what was the point of even discussing this, then?

I came here to praise Alizée’s “live” performance (and I also said in another thread that her live voice seemed to have gotten better, as of late), but then, I felt that I had been deceived by the “Les Années bonheur” performance. You don’t think this performance was deceiving and, respectfully, I beleive you are wrong. My other point is that Alizée has yet to show that she can consistently perform well (not extraordinarily well, just well) in her live performances. Here, I am sorry to say that I don’t know if you have been arguing this point, or you have simply tried to explain why this is the case. Well, unless you or I come up with something that hasn’t yet been said already, I suppose this won’t get much further.

Let's just put it this way, I guess I didn't feel deceived by this because I suppose I've come to expect it after watching so many of these TV performances. I guess that's kind of sad in a way. Again, just to be clear, my previous post was meant as a general explanation. It wasn't meant to offer a defense for the practice of staging "live" performances with prerecorded sound.

[Corsaire]

@Lefty, sure, let’s just agree that this specific discussion is over with... but I will most probably have more to add on the topic later on and I hope you won’t see that as me trying to pile it up on what we have discussed you and I.

[Scruffydog777]

I learned early on that Alizee lip synced and the first way I learned about it was from watching En Concert. Listening to Moi Lolita from that concert made me wonder why it sounded so different from her other performances of this song. Then at a later date, I saw her performance in Korea and also there were 2 other performances that made it obvious. Both were when she was singing with other singers which I guess in these instances, necessitated that she sing live. One was where she sang ML on Eurobest with 3 other singers and the other was whenshe sang it in a duet with another singer on Star academy.

Now realizing this did bother me at first. In fact I thought the live version of this song did not sound good at all and I felt that if she had only been able to sing ML live since when it was first written, it would have never become a hit. But at this point, I had heard all the songs of En Concert and I thought her live voice was beautiful in so many songs; L'Alize, Hey Amigo, L'e-mail a des ailes, Toc de mac and Amelie m'a dit and it doesn't matter to me if they took the best audio from all the shows for the dvd. All that matters is it was her live voice.

Now J'en ai marre was another song that didn't sound as good live, how ever it was okay, but I also think that her voice has changed with age and while jam sounded okay live before, it does not sound good at all now as evidenced by her last trip to Mexico. Now I don't think it's a case of her voice getting worse, I think it's more of a case of her range changing and I think it's still a beautiful voice, in that range.

Now I recognize the fact that most of the other female singers I've seen on Les Enfoires, have stronger, more naturally beautiful voices with a wider range than Alizee, but when you combine her live voice with the music like that composed by Laurent Boutanant and the lyrics like those written by Mylene Farmer, there is no one else I'd rather listen to.

Now finding some one else who can put together music that the French people would enjoy as much as LB's , that is in the right range for her voice has been a tall order for her. One of the few songs that has come close is PLP, then lately, La vie par procuration was one I really enjoyed. Now I don't know if LVPP was sung live or enhananced, but It does make me very anxious to hear the 2 songs JJ Goldman wrote for her. I have a good feeling that this would be the combination that would finally work for her.

Bottom line is I know her voice isn't that strong, I know by itself, it's far from the most beautiful voices. I know it has it's limitations including consistency, but there is no other voice that I'd rather hear when it's at it's best than hers. I think she could improve it with singing lessons, but as I said in another thread, I don't think her heart is into her career, but that's a subject for another thread.

[Corsaire]

First, to make one point clear, I don’t care about the fact that Alizée lip synchs most of her performances. It was evident to me that she was that type of artist the very first time I saw her on “Tube d’un jour tube de toujours”. Also, I was neither surprised nor disappointed to find that most of her other performances on TV were lip synched since, as I have said, this is something anyone my age leaving in Québec is quite accustomed to. We have really great singers in Québec, but we also have singers that have poor voices and still go on to have decent careers. These singers often lip synch, if not almost exclusively. What I find unacceptable here, is that "Les Années bonheur" rendition is a clear deception to me.

As for her live singing people will often cite examples; En concert, La Javanaise, Dis-lui toi que je t’aime... Well, I have come to doubt Alizée’s singing capability so much that I am questioning those performances as well and I think they might have been studio enhanced to a certain degree. I just cannot believe that a person can sing so poorly as Alizée does in so many live performances and then be capable of sounding much, much better during other live renditions. Some of her live performances are technically so bad, it sounds as if they took any woman off the street and asked her to learn a song on the spot and sing it live.

On a side note, I had a small gathering at my place the other day and one of the guests asked me if I had a guitar. Although I am not a very good player, I do own a guitar, so I pull it out and gave it to the guest. He started singing popular songs and pretty soon we were all singing along. There were three women at that party, including my wife and I would say that the three of them were technically superior to many of Alizée’s worst live performances. That is three women, on the spot, no training, and who had no clue they would be singing that evening. And it is not a question of voice power since the three women had fairly weak voices. In the case of my wife, she will sign along songs from time to time when she feels like it. That is all she needed to have better control over her voice than Alizée.

My problem with Alizée’s voice has to do with what I perceive as a lack of respect for her fans. I believe that she should invest some time and efforts at improving her singing because her out of the studio voice is simply lacks control and consistency. And again, I don’t see how some *basic* training for this would be so demanding on her, or how it would put in jeopardy the texture of her voice, which her fans love so much. I tend to have more respect and admiration for people who invest time and efforts to be the best that they can be (be it at relationships, parenting, professionally...), so, evidently, her lack of professionalism does impact on the way that I see Alizée... I don’t ask that she becomes a great singer, that I doubt she can be, I just wonder why she doesn’t respect her fans a little more.

[Marka]

Originally Posted by lapinschous

I very much agree with the above and share Corsaire's point of view as far as her singing skills are concerned . Let's face it, one has to be of terribly bad faith not to acknowledge Lili's systematic shortcomings when performing live.

Her Asian promo tour of 2003 provides some interesting content since the japanese and koreans couldn't allow her to lip-synch in front of their audiences.


...

After watching this thread for quite some time, I finally decided to throw in my two cents and state that I don't care whether she lip-syncs or not and whether she tries to fool us or not. Of course I would love to hear her live singing improve, but I won't mind much if that doesn't happen.
And this has nothing to do with the culture of mediocrity we live in, it simply means that I "have no culture". If somebody mentions to me that someone is a extraordinary at art, I tend to ignore that artist altogether, but if somebody mentions that somebody is a poor artist, but he still finds value in him, well that makes me interested.

And btw, this performance in Korea is one of live performances I like the most - globally, nut just with Alizée.

[Scruffydog777]

Well it looks like what has been being discussed in here will get the acid test on may 5th. She just appeared on a show that will be aired on that date. Maybe somebody in the audience was able to film it and we'll see it soon. One of the songs she sang was Ella Ella. If she sings it live, will it sound as good as it did back in 2003? I really don't think it will. I've heard her live voice in En Concert and as much as I enjoyed her live voice during so many songs in En Concert, I don't think it matched up with her voice when she first sang this song. Disappointing yes, but she was under the management of MF and LB and I'm sure it was probably they who arranged for her to be on this show, then selected this song, then enhanced it and had her lip sync to it on that show that was a tribute to Madonna.

So I don't think it was something of her choosing, I think it was all in MF and LB's way of promoting her. Like I said if she sings it live and it doesn't sound good, it wont be a surprising revelation to me. That's something I realized long ago and accepted and if I'm wrong and it sounds great, well then it will be a very pleasant surprise for me.

[pepelepew]

Originally Posted by Matevz91

After watching this thread for quite some time, I finally decided to throw in my two cents and state that I don't care whether she lip-syncs or not and whether she tries to fool us or not. Of course I would love to hear her live singing improve, but I won't mind much if that doesn't happen.
And this has nothing to do with the culture of mediocrity we live in, it simply means that I "have no culture". If somebody mentions to me that someone is a extraordinary at art, I tend to ignore that artist altogether, but if somebody mentions that somebody is a poor artist, but he still finds value in him, well that makes me interested.

And btw, this performance in Korea is one of live performances I like the most - globally, nut just with Alizée.

With that logic, Milli Vanilli would still be around and hailed as great artists. They were just 20 yrs ahead of their time lol. OK class can we say cognitive dissonance. I am making a sarcastic point. I have been as guilty as anyone else over the years when it comes to Alizee. I just can't delude myself any longer. I'm not that hard to please. As I have said I like Alizee's tone. I just wish she could at least sing in tune and not go sharp or flat in just one live performance. If that could happen I wouldn't care so much how much playback or studio enhanced versions were out there. As long as they don't try to deceive us into believing it is a live performance.

[Scruffydog777]

I suggest that we as a forum end this debate right here. We know many of her early performances were lip synched and may have sounded noticeably better than her live performances We know she has a voice that might not be as strong as many other singers, may not have the range of other singers, may lack consistency, but when it's at it's best, it's one of the most beautiful voices, well I can't speak for others, but I can certainly say, I have heard.

I think we recognize her strong points as well as her weak points. No matter what happens with Ella Ella, I suggest you analyze it for yourself and we all move on to other things and make no more posts here, unless it's about the original topic.

This is a free country that this forum is hosted in and anyone can feel free to continue this topic, but I suggest you start a thread along the lines of what we've been discussing is truly about. It's a lot like I started a thread for those opposed to her tattoos as I am. People can plainly see what the topic is about and if they don't want to hear other peoples opinions about that topic, it's easy for them to steer away. If they visit that thread, well they have only themselves to blame for what they hear.

If I see any more posts here related to lip synching or her voice in general, I will start a thread, probably about that subject and suggest mods who have the power, move all relevant posts from this thread or any other thread there.

[BrianO1]

Moving all the posts about singing live or not here.

[Rocket]

A GREAT BIG SO WHAT IF SHE DID?

I've always noticed a difference between the voice of Alizée when she sings live or prerecorded. Keep in mind, when she first came to Paris, she wanted to be a dancer. It just so happened that she also put singing as part of her resume. I have heard many recording artists who could not carry a tune on their own. Thanks to doblys, reverberaters, filters and autotune (yuck) anyone could become a singing star.

The group Duran Duran was the first group that was made for music videos. They were all cute guys who couldn't sing their way out of a paper bag. All of their concerts were prerecorded. Before music videos, look at all the artists who made it big. Most of them were in no way pretty or handsome but they had voices that could charm birds off the trees. Today, if you are not drop dead gorgeous then agents will not touch you.

As for you Corsaire, I'm sorry to see you go but opinions, like elbows, almost everybody has at least one. You are not the first to rock Alizée off of her pedestal in here. I've done it more than once, got scolded, shrugged it off and went on with my life. This is not the most insane thread ever created. Some of the older members may recall the "If Alizée and one of your family members/loved ones were drowning and you could only save one, who would you save?" That drew a heated debate between the 'true believers' and the 'conservative' members. Please remember this Corsaire, you didn't come here because you wanted all the members to like you. Just like me, you came here to learn more about Alizée. When I first came here, this place was a gold mine of information. There were galleries of pictures and page after page of music videos, interviews and commercials that included Alizée. My favorite place to be was in the old chat room. I gained and found respect for many of the members there. Today's chat room is not the same, at least not for me.

Beyoncé prerecorded America's National Anthem for President Obama's inauguration and lip-synced it just in case she may have messed up.

Ok, I'm done...peace out!

Edit:

You're doing an awesome job Scruffy. I have no complaints whatsoever of the job you're doing here. I'm not sure if there are any new mods or not. I remember Roman, man he had an opinion on everything. People come and go, some return 'ahem'. lol But the ones who leave, I hope that they leave with a better understanding of what Alizée was all about. And it's mods like you Scruffy who keeps that information going.