"Alizée en Concert" - Translation Project 2020

[Scruffydog777]

I don't see why you're saying it's "all' going in the wrong direction. You've done a lot of great work here with your translations for Alizee fans and I think you should continue that, but there's a very small part of something, I wanted no part of. I'm not sacrificing my values or is it views, not even for Alizee.

[Mr Coucou]

Originally Posted by joebanana

My intention was just to make decent subtitles for the video, but it looks like it's all going in the wrong direction, and I feel a bad vibe, so my will to continue working on that translation goes down. As far as I'm concerned, I'm done with that.

Joe, I don't think you've done anything wrong. Scruffy is being very prudish--- I think Scruffy is the only one here who is bothered by this thread.

Edit:

Originally Posted by joebanana

When I dream of wolves-----(1)
It's Lola who bleeds

[...]

-1
"When I dream of wolves"
(When I consider my mistakes)
like all of us, I did some research on the internet and found the possible true meaning of that line.
So if it fits, I would make a double line and add that explanation with a different subtitle color.

I have many questions.

Let me start with the "when I dream of wolves" lines:

When I dream of wolves
Its Lola who bleeds

You mentioned that you were reading discussions on the meanings of the lyrics. Do you have links for those discussions? I'm curious to read them.

I'm puzzled by your translation "When I consider my mistakes".

I thought "wolf" was a reference to the French story of a young girl losing her virginity. (I.e. "She met the wolf.") The "wolf" refers to a man (or boy) who takes away the girl's virginity.

So "When I dream of wolves" might be translated as:
"When I dream of losing my virginity."
"When I dream of my virginity being taken away."
"When I dream of sex."
"When I dream of men pursuing me."
"When I dream of men."
etc.

I'm really puzzled by the meaning of the second line, "Its Lola who bleeds." (But for now, let's focus on the "when I dream of wolves" line.)

[Scruffydog777]

I don't think I'm being prudish but that's subject to opinion. I just didn't want to be part of a conversation where certain words were being used to describe a character she portrayed, even if those words were very accurate.

As far as "When I dream of wolves, it's Lola who bleeds which I feel is a very accurate interpretation, I feel by wolves she is talking about older men and it doesn't have to be old, old men, just men who are older than someone who should be pursuing her.

and as far as it's Lola who bleeds, that is in reference to the fact that some females, when they have sex for the first time bleed.

There is a line after that, which because of an interpretation I saw I feel has more of a sexual meaning than most people think and fits MF's modus operandi that I won't discuss in here because it could be wrong, but I will discuss it in private.

[Mr Coucou]

Originally Posted by Scruffydog777

As far as "When I dream of wolves, it's Lola who bleeds which I feel is a very accurate interpretation, I feel by wolves she is talking about older men and it doesn't have to be old, old men, just men who are older than someone who should be pursuing her.
.

Yes, that makes sense. I agree.

I think for "subtitle" purposes, "When I dream of wolves, it's Lola who bleeds" is good enough.

I'm still curious as to the exact meaning of this line. (See below.)

Edit:

Originally Posted by Scruffydog777

and as far as it's Lola who bleeds, that is in reference to the fact that some females, when they have sex for the first time bleed.

That makes sense.

But in the case of "bleed", there are two other possible meanings:

(1) being harmed
(2) feeling sympathy on behalf of another person.

In the case of (1):

"Its Lola who bleeds" ==> "It's Lola who is harmed".

In the case of (2):

"It's Lola who bleeds" ==> "its Lola whose heart aches with sympathy."

(Also (2) can be sarcastic. Such as "my heart bleeds for you" which means "I have no sympathy for you.")

My question, is what is the purpose of the line "It's Lola who bleeds"?
In the wolf metaphor, it would be Lola (i.e. not the wolf) who bleeds--- so why does this need to be stated? Is it just for emphasis?

Edit:

Originally Posted by Scruffydog777

There is a line after that, which because of an interpretation I saw I feel has more of a sexual meaning than most people think and fits MF's modus operandi that I won't discuss in here because it could be wrong, but I will discuss it in private.

Was this talked about previously on the forum? Do you have a link to the thread?

[Scruffydog777]

"My question, is what is the purpose of the line "It's Lola who bleeds"?"

Well I thought that was explained in my last post. When the wolves come around, it's Lola who bleeds. I'm sure that is in reference to the fact that when a wolf comes around, it's a lolita, a young lady who hasn't had sex before, bleeds.

In the song, of course the character could bleed only once, so it's in reference to other lolitas.

The line that I think is most questioned, most controversial is "Et quand je donne ma langue aux chats".

[joebanana]

Originally Posted by Scruffydog777

I don't see why you're saying it's "all' going in the wrong direction. You've done a lot of great work here with your translations for Alizee fans and I think you should continue that, but there's a very small part of something, I wanted no part of. I'm not sacrificing my values or is it views, not even for Alizee.

You don't want to be a part of something is more than okay.
I respect that and I understand.
What i don't understand is why you feel attacked (which is not at all) If I'm trying to separate Alizee from a real life and Lolita character.I think we both do the same thing, protect Alizee, so can we stop this ridiculus argue.

[Aragorn97]

Originally Posted by Mr Coucou

My question, is what is the purpose of the line "It's Lola who bleeds"?
In the wolf metaphor, it would be Lola (i.e. not the wolf) who bleeds--- so why does this need to be stated? Is it just for emphasis?

I think that is related to this part of Nabokov's novel:

She was Lo, plain Lo, in the morning, standing four feet ten in one sock. She was Lola in slacks. She was Dolly at school. She was Dolores on the dotted line. But in my arms she was always Lolita.

It is as though this girl has multiple personalities, in the sense that she was a kind of masked hero: she is a normal girl but, when she wears those clothes and starts to act in a certain way, she becomes Lolita, a completely different person. And whatever she does wearing this "mask", it's always Lolita to do it.
So when she dreams of wolves, she's Lolita, not the ordinary girl. That's why you can call her Lolita, Lo, Lola...

Does it make any sense?

[joebanana]

Originally Posted by Mr Coucou

Joe, I don't think you've done anything wrong. Scruffy is being very prudish--- I think Scruffy is the only one here who is bothered by this thread.

Edit:



I have many questions.

Let me start with the "when I dream of wolves" lines:

When I dream of wolves
Its Lola who bleeds

You mentioned that you were reading discussions on the meanings of the lyrics. Do you have links for those discussions? I'm curious to read them.

I'm puzzled by your translation "When I consider my mistakes".

I thought "wolf" was a reference to the French story of a young girl losing her virginity. (I.e. "She met the wolf.") The "wolf" refers to a man (or boy) who takes away the girl's virginity.

So "When I dream of wolves" might be translated as:
"When I dream of losing my virginity."
"When I dream of my virginity being taken away."
"When I dream of sex."
"When I dream of men pursuing me."
"When I dream of men."
etc.

I'm really puzzled by the meaning of the second line, "Its Lola who bleeds." (But for now, let's focus on the "when I dream of wolves" line.)

I'ma also puzzled with "When I consider my mistakes", unfortunately i don't have a link that explains it. I've noticed that some people translate it on that way, so I brought it here to discuss. Here is one of the links.

https://www.frenchlyricstranslations...lolita-alizee/

"When I dream of wolves"
"Its Lola who bleeds."
I think these two lines are closely related and have more than one meaning.

If you do some things-------------------------The consequences of that
(Or you make mistakes)---------------------(When you bleed, you pay the ultimate price)
"When I dream of wolves" ---------------------"Its Lola who bleeds."
For example:
If you play with a knife--------------------you will cut yourself and bleed
If you play with wolves--------------------they can bite you and you will bleed

It's all used as camouflage for the main thing, which is very obvious.
losing of virginity and bleeding as the consequences of that.
In the video that line did not cross anywhere to directly mention sexuality.
It is up to the listener to interpret how he wants.
so i don't think we should cross it either.
"When I dream of wolves" it works fine, but if we replace that line with "When I consider my mistakes" we lose background sexual context.
I think it should be
"When I dream of wolves" , or together only with different color

"When I dream of wolves"
("When I consider my mistakes")

Edit:

Originally Posted by Aragorn97

I think that is related to this part of Nabokov's novel:



It is as though this girl has multiple personalities, in the sense that she was a kind of masked hero: she is a normal girl but, when she wears those clothes and starts to act in a certain way, she becomes Lolita, a completely different person. And whatever she does wearing this "mask", it's always Lolita to do it.
So when she dreams of wolves, she's Lolita, not the ordinary girl. That's why you can call her Lolita, Lo, Lola...

Does it make any sense?

I'm curious, if you read that book, did you find anything related to methylene blue socks in Lolita outfit description?

[Aragorn97]

No, I have never read it. I know something about it because of Alizée: it intrigues me to know what is the origin of the song, so I made some research. But, honestly, I don't think it's a book I would read.

[Mr Coucou]

Originally Posted by Aragorn97

It is as though this girl has multiple personalities, in the sense that she was a kind of masked hero: she is a normal girl but, when she wears those clothes and starts to act in a certain way, she becomes Lolita, a completely different person. And whatever she does wearing this "mask", it's always Lolita to do it.
So when she dreams of wolves, she's Lolita, not the ordinary girl. That's why you can call her Lolita, Lo, Lola...

Does it make any sense?

Yes, that does make sense. That explains it very well; thanks!