Wow!

[CFHollister]

Originally Posted by garçoncanadien

fff.

it just reminded me of that performance so i wanted to talk about the difference and similarities between the pictures. didn't know i would start a fight Snatcher42 you have a key and lock available if necessary. my apologies.

No worries; there's no fight going on here. It's just another example of how threads here can go massively off their original topic. Really, it's more MO around here than not. Nothing to worry about

[kdn]

"What's famous?". This is from wiki:

Originally Posted by wiki

Noun: celebrity

1. a person who has a high degree of recognition by the general population; fame.
2. the quality of being a famous person

Adjective: famous

1. Well known.
2. In the public eye.

More internet users know about = more popular on the internet. Right?

Also more internet users will produce more searches. If anyone noticed, Lili has about 5 times more than Mylène. That's a lot and they can't all be pervs.

About the time frame, the google trends shows (stable) results from 2004 and Alizée already has had more searches.

Originally Posted by Snatcher42

How so?

mylene.forumactif.com
Members: 13,273 | Posts: 1,048,318
mylenefarmeriscalled.net
Members: 7,688 | Posts: 2,118,263

alizee-forum.com
Members: 6,011 | Posts: 541,464
alizeealliance.net
Members: 970 | Posts: 100,560

I'm not a member there so I'm not sure how active they are. But those forums are very old and has a huge number of members/posts is understandable.

This is statistic of mylenefarmeriscalled.net and alizee-fanpage.com:

The brown line is alizee-fanpage.com, much higher than mylenefarmeriscalled.net



And if anyone takes a look at the number of people actually online on those forums, you'll see a smaller number than our AA's and AF's.

mylene.forumactif.com
5 utilisateurs en ligne :: 3 Enregistrés, 0 Invisible et 2 Invités

mylenefarmeriscalled.net
13 connectés.
1 personne non-inscrite et 4 personnes invisibles visitent le forum

alizee-forum.com
30 (9 members and 21 guests)

moi-alizee.us
18 (5 members and 13 guests)

It's 48 for Lili vs 18 for Mylene.

@Garçon: it's not a fight, it's only a discussion. And just like Rocket said, this is page 5.
It's inevitable

[Ben]

Originally Posted by kdn

More internet users know about = more popular on the internet. Right?

Not really. There's a big difference between "popular" and "famous" (though they can often go hand-in-hand). Hitler is famous. He isn't popular.

Popular is the word we used initillaly, and I think a more relevant one. "Famous" came into the discussion later.

But those forums are very old

Actually for the most, they're not. It's rare for fansites to stick around too long, and the current crop of Mylene pages are roughly the same age as older Lili sites. Mylenefarmeriscalled.net is from early 2003, same as AA and AF, and mylene.forumactif.com came even later at the end of 2004.

This is statistic of mylenefarmeriscalled.net and alizee-fanpage.com:
The brown line is alizee-fanpage.com, much higher than mylenefarmeriscalled.net

These are traffic stats, right? If so, they're extremly misleading because during most of that time we had been compromised by a virus that was using our server to send a recieve junk email. The numbers are all off, though you can see us start to fix things around mid-April. We still have some issues with bots though too, which could be reflected in those user counts.

Edit: BTW, where'd you get these, and could you run them for the Alliance?

[kdn]

Originally Posted by Snatcher42

Actually for the most, they're not. It's rare for fansites to stick around too long, and the current crop of Mylene pages are roughly the same age as older Lili sites like the Fanpage, Forum, and Alliance. Mylenefarmeriscalled.net is from early 2003, same as Alizee-Forum.com, and mylene.forumactif.com came even later in 2004.

And moi-alizee.us is less than 1 year old.

Originally Posted by Snatcher42

This is extremly misleading too, because during most of that time we had been compromised by a virus that was using our server to send a recieve junk email. The numbers are all off, though you can see us start to fix things around mid-April. We still have some issues with bots though, which is which is reflected in the user counts.

This is 3 years statistic:

alizee-fanpage.com already has had more visitors than mylenefarmeriscalled.net since 2005.

Originally Posted by Snatcher42

Not really. There's a big difference between "popular" and "famous" (though they can often go hand-in-hand). Hitler is famous. He isn't popular.

Popular is the word we used initillaly, and I think a more relevant one. "Famous" came into the discussion later.

Maybe I'll put it this way: more internet users know about Lili than Mylène.

[Ben]

Originally Posted by kdn

And moi-alizee.us is less than 1 year old.

During which time we've worked hard to promote it as a new and exciting place (Operation Digg, etc.).

Originally Posted by kdn

This is 3 years statistic:

I'm honestly not sure how far back our Spam problems go, possibly several years. Those spikes especially don't look natural. Also keep in mind that Alizee-Fanpage has been heavily promoted to keep at the top of Google's search results in all countries. I'm not sure how the various Mylene forums do in that regard.

Bottom line is that in the same amount of time (2003 - 2007), Mylenefarmeriscalled.net has had twice as many members and four times as many messages as AF. You said you're not a member there, and while I'm not very active myself, I do read it and other Mylene forums from time to time. And I can vouch that they're as active and lively as any Alizée one.

Originally Posted by kdn

Maybe I'll put it this way: more internet users know about Lili than Mylène.

Sure, but as I said 75% of those (and yes I do honestly think it's that much) just know the JEAM dance.

[kdn]

Originally Posted by Snatcher42

During which time we've worked hard to promote it as a new and exciting place (Operation Digg, etc.).

I'm honestly not sure how far back our Spam problems go, possibly several years. Those spikes especially don't look natural. Also keep in mind that Alizee-Fanpage has been heavily promoted to keep at the top of Google's search results in all countries. I'm not sure how the various Mylene forums do in that regard.

Promotion is to let more people know about, isn't it?

Originally Posted by Snatcher42

I'm honestly not sure how far back our Spam problems go, possibly several years. Those spikes especially don't look natural. Also keep in mind that Alizee-Fanpage has been heavily promoted to keep at the top of Google's search results in all countries. I'm not sure how the various Mylene forums do in that regard.

That statistic is from the most trusted website statistic service on the net, money involved. It's impossible to be generated by viruses, bots, scripts... etc. Only real human visitors can affect it.

Originally Posted by Snatcher42

Bottom line is that in the same amount of time (2003 - 2007), Mylenefarmeriscalled.net has had twice as many members and four times as many messages as AF. You said you're not a member there, and while I'm not very active myself, I do read it and other Mylene forums from time to time. And I can vouch that they're as active and lively as any Alizée one.

Well, alizeecn.com is very small community but it has 4 times more registered members than AF. Those members are spam bots. And if AF hasn't resolved the spam bots problem, it would have 60.000 members, far more than mylenefarmeriscalled.net.

Originally Posted by Snatcher42

Sure, but as I said 75% of those (and yes I do honestly think it's that much) just know the JEAM dance.

If they care about doing a search, they will very likely know more than that.

[Ben]

Originally Posted by kdn

If they care about doing a search, they will very likely know more than that.

I really don't think so.

Originally Posted by kdn

Promotion is to let more people know about, isn't it?

Yes, but as I keep saying, knowing does not equal popularity.
Popularity = # of fans.

Originally Posted by kdn

That statistic is from the most trusted website statistic service on the net, money involved. It's impossible to be generated by viruses, bots, scripts... etc. Only real human visitors can affect it.

Sorry, I just don't trust it. I know we've had weird traffic issues. Like 2,000 users with unique IPs logged on at one time. There's no way that was genuine.

And I know we've had bots because I delete them myself.

All in all I trust first hand observation of the communities themselves over any of these figures. I look at as many different Mylene sites as I do Alizée, and they're all about equally active.

Not to bring real-life into this too much, because I know it's just about the internet, but seriously we're talking about an artist who has sold over 20 millions albums and plays 15,000 seat areans versus one who's sold less than a tenth that and plays to crowds of a few thousand. Some of that is going to be reflected online.

Of course the Alizée scene seems bigger to us because we're a part of it. Someone in the Mylene scene sees things the other way (heck, most of them think Lili's been forgotten). I happen to belong to both worlds.

Hey, now that we've got the words "borg" and "both worlds" in the thread, maybe we'll get a lot of trekker hits?

[garçoncanadien]

Snatcher42 tell me this if you would

what is the 4 winds bar?

[kdn]

I'm not a part of Mylene world so I trust statistic and facts. But you trust your feeling. Well, that's fine by me.

But believe it or not, in the online world, Alizée's name is far more well known than Mylène's.

[Ben]

Originally Posted by kdn

But believe it or not, in the online world, Alizée's name is far more well known than Mylène's.

Well I'm not sure, because if even a fraction of the people who own a Mylene album and a fraction of the people who own an Alizée one go online, then the numbers are far in Mylene's favor.

BUT... I already have accepted this point multiple times:

"Sure, but as I said 75% of those just know the JEAM dance."

"knowing does not equal popularity.
Popularity = # of fans."

etc.

It's not about facts versus feelings. I do think those traffic stats are wrong because I've worked on alizee-forum for four years and know. But that doesn't matter. I never doubted the Google Trends. Sure, more people may be searching for Alizée, it's just that that doesn't matter! As I keep saying, it's not an indication of popularity, fanbase, or anything important.

I've provided the statistics that do mean something: webpages, forum members, forum posts, etc. And those all show things as I've said: Internet "popularity" about equal, if not in Mylene's favor.

Originally Posted by garçoncanadien

what is the 4 winds bar?

It's the nexus of the crisis, and the origin of storms...