Recurrent themes in mass-oriented entertainment

[lefty12357]

Originally Posted by Corsaire

Yes, I guess we will have to agree to disagree here Lefty. I do not believe one needed a VCR machine or any other “sophisticated” instrument to accomplish that feat in 1972-73. I have a keyboard in my basement and I can assure you that I can write 10 to 20 pieces to fit perfectly to any movie of my liking (and no, I do not pretend to be an accomplished musician or to know the details of how to record an album). I can ask other musicians to join in and add to whatever I have written. Between each pieces, I can add some filling (sound bites and sound effects) so to make it fit to perfection to the said movie. It really isn’t that difficult. Really. You just concentrate on key moments and let the rest fall where it does.

Nick Mason says in that documentary you linked to (at 18:10): “And then, the very critical thing of the tapes starting at specific moments which is all done with hand signs and stopwatches.” Can you get less sophisticated then this?

As far as matching TDSOTM to TWOO taking away from the original concept of the album, that is implying that you do know yourself what the original concept was.

Ha, ha, I figured that statement would catch your ears.

Of course it referred to a very specific sound effects issue, which was getting the tapes of the clocks to chime together from an earlier quadrophonic experiment. Personally, I do have some experience with recording and I have worked in the non-automation world with reel-to-reel analog tape. I've been involved with "all hands on the mixing desk" situations where mixing is a performance in itself. I just don't think these guys were also trying to line all this up with TWOZ while they had so many other things on their minds.

This whole thing has got me to thinking though. I am considering doing something of this nature myself, possibly one song written and recorded with the intent of creating some "syncronicities" maybe with an Alizée video, maybe PTB or something like that. Too bad I'm so busy with other projects right now.

[Corsaire]

Originally Posted by lefty12357

Ha, ha, I figured that statement would catch your ears.

Of course it referred to a very specific sound effects issue, which was getting the tapes of the clocks to chime together from an earlier quadrophonic experiment. Personally, I do have some experience with recording and I have worked in the non-automation world with reel-to-reel analog tape. I've been involved with "all hands on the mixing desk" situations where mixing is a performance in itself. I just don't think these guys were also trying to line all this up with TWOZ while they had so many other things on their minds.

This whole thing has got me to thinking though. I am considering doing something of this nature myself, possibly one song written and recorded with the intent of creating some "syncronicities" maybe with an Alizée video, maybe PTB or something like that. Too bad I'm so busy with other projects right now.

Lefty, I do not agree that the Mason statement that I quoted referred specifically to Parsons’ early quadraphonic experiments, but that is getting a little too detailed, I believe.

If you like Eraserhead, I hope that at some point, you will watch it synced to The Wall and comment about it. It is too bad that Part 2 is now missing...

Here is a one of the great moments (set to start at 2m25s):

[pepelepew]

Originally Posted by Corsaire

Yes, I remember you did mention PF and/or The Wall in some thread a few months ago and I thought you could be one to possibly be interested by this topic.

The tornado scene on “The Great Gig in the Sky” is probably my favourite moment of T DSOO. There are plenty of very intense moments where the movie and the music are in perfect symbiosis:

- When Dorothy falls of the fence
- The entrance of Miss Gulch on her bicycle to the chimes of “Time”
- Dorothy’s reaction when she understands that Toto will be taken away
- Toto’s escape and return
- The tornado scene
- The entrance in the world of Oz on “Money”
(By the way, this is where you would have had to switch sides on the original vinyl!)
- The military march at the end of “Money”
- The little ballerinas on “Us and Them”
- The “Black” witch entrance on “Black, black, black...”
(“And who knows which is which” or maybe “which is witch”?)
- Dorothy starting her long journey at the beginning of the yellow brick road... to the lyrics “Out of the way, it’s a busy day”
- The whole encounter with the Scarecrow
(“Brain Damage” playing while he sings “If I Only Had a Brain”)
- The heartbeats as Dorothy listens to the Tin Man chest

As for TWOO itself (the work of L.F. Baum), I have also read about many of its possible meanings, but myself, I have mainly analysed the meaning of the TWOO movie in the context of mass manipulation and “mind control”; the connections there are more than convincing. I will get into that later on if people are interested.

Edit:



Well, I have studied this particular phenomenon for years and I must say that I am not convinced the least by what the people officially involved have said about it. Most telling, I think that Alan Parsons’ (audio engineer) best argument is basically a “straw man” argument (pun intended – ref: Scarecrow in TWOO ) when he refers to the impossibility of playing the movie at Abbey Road Studios. I, for one, do not claim that PF smoked a giant joint and started recording at Abbey Road Studios in one single session while watching TWOO. I believe there is a simpler way to accomplish such “synchronizations”. All one needs to do is watch the movie with a stopwatch and record the time at which key transitions moments are appearing. You then match the music to the key moments while at the studio. You can even use all kinds of sound bits and effects to help with the matching; it is easier to add or remove sound effects (rather then temper with the songs themselves) to adjust the timing to perfection. You can write new songs and you can even use songs that have been already written and modify the texture and feel so it fits the concept... Maybe it isn’t as simple as I describe, but to actually imply it would have been impossible because one could not play the movie at Abbey Road Studios or one did not have means to basically create a movie soundtrack in 1973 is just unconvincing to me.

Here are other reasons why I think it is likely that it was intentional:

- The matching works on many levels: emotions, rhythm, action, themes, songs titles... “The Great Gig In the Sky” during the tornado, “Brain Damage” while the Scarecrow sings “If I Only Had a Brain”.
- TDSOTM jacket (see the OP)
- The fact that other music by PF does match other movies to perfection. Beside what has been presented so far, “Echoes” (from the album Meddle) matches the last chapter of Kubrick’s 2001: A Space Odyssey to such perfection that it would be hard to believe it was not done on purpose. And here, it is noteworthy that Roger Waters and Kubrick did have a few tumultuous collaborative issues through the years.
- For the most part, TDSOTM (just like The Wall) is a continuous “soundtrack” where a song ends where the next one starts. This is a quite an uncommon way to present popular music and it could indicate intent to make the content match some other content.
- Alan Parsons has built his career based on occult symbolism.

Here is 2001 with Echoes:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=2d6_1303698770

And there are more “synchronicities”...

How about Eraserhead matched to The Wall?
<Content could be disturbing to some people>
Edit: Part 2 seems to now be missing.
(In this case the whole album is played, so, contrary to AIW, “Comfortably Numb” does appear.)

David Lynch, the director of Eraserhead, is known to be fond of Alice in Wonderland. So, The Wall matches with AIW and with Eraserhead, a movie from a director who happens to like reusing AIW symbolisms... And both these movies were released before the album. This is quite disturbing in itself.

Furthermore, you have mentioned in another thread that you like the Robert Zemeckis movie “Contact” (based on Carl Sagan’s book). What about a scene from “Contact” also matching with “Echoes” to perfection:

Ohhh no! I just realized that it has been removed from YouTube:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&l...&aqi=&aql=&oq=
This is sad because it was one of the best syncs I have seen.

Oh, well...

There also seems to be a thread going through all these “syncs”. In all cases, a protagonist seems to venture to unknown territories: alternate reality, dream-like worlds, the world of Oz, Wonderland, space exploration, alien encounters, the origin of the Human race, after death experience...

Edit:



pepe, if you are referring to what the vast majority of people would deem is “credible”, then only a confession from PF or someone else involved in the making of those albums, will do the trick. Myself, I laugh at “official” versions of events. I have lived through so many situations in my life that have been reported “officially” (some of them in the national media in Canada) and to say the “official” version is often a travesty of the reality is a euphemism. Given the right incentive, everyone can hide part of the truth ... doctors, politicians, artists, spouses, grandmas... Why would it be so strange that people involved with the making of those albums prefer not to divulge this information?

Myself, I try to analyse a phenomenon for what it is. I do not rely on “official” people to give me “official” versions of events.


@Chuck (... are you still reading this...)
Have you even attempted to watch just the first movie. 43 min long... That is not much time wasted. Better, just watch the first 20 some minutes of TDSOO (up to the point where Dorothy enters the world of Oz) and see how it feels.

Maybe I'm missing something Corsaire. I just don't see the mc purpose for synching their music with these luminati classics. It would take great effort. Off the top of my head I guess the music could be played with these films during a mind control session with an mc subject and serve a purpose. I just don't think that it would translate to classic mass media mc manipulation in the classic sense. I agree that official versions of anything in many cases is skewed, spun and twisted or a down right lie. I just think that someone on the inside would have let the cat out of the bag or there would be some rumor linked to someone involved in the production or some stage of creating the albums. I don't doubt that it is possible though. Like with Lefty, I will keep an open mind. Very interesting subject Corsaire and I am not doubting your sincerity at all.

[Corsaire]

Originally Posted by lefty12357

The engineer on the project, Alan Parsons, said no one in the band ever mentioned TWOZ during the recording, and the rooms they worked in at Abby Road Studios lacked the facilities to watch or synch anything to film. Furthermore, the songs on the album were recorded out of order and during 2 separate sessions. Therefore, I have to conclude that this is all a very interesting coincidence.

Actually, I have always thought that Alan Parsons had been disingenuous about his comments concernnig the TDSOO “synchronization” topic. I believe that AP knows very well that you did not need to play a movie in the sound studio to produce a soundtrack. He also knows very well that in 1972-73, there was nothing magical about making studio recorded songs and sounds fit any specific pre-established time patterns. In a way, it's almost as if AP is having fun at the expense of PF fans.

It is also interesting to point out that three years before the release of TDSOTM, Roger Waters collaborated with Ron Geesin on creating songs and sounds to match the images of the movie The Body. The soundtrack was released in 1970 and was titled Music From the Body. Here is an excerpt from the movie “The Body”:


Incidentally, it is worth noting that you can hear here the predecessor of TDSOTM’s “Breathe”.

More information about the soundtrack:
http://www.floydianslip.com/pink-flo...lbum.php?id=34

Why would it be so inconceivable that Roger Waters and the boys would have secretly created a soundtrack to TWOO when Roger Waters collaborated on such a project 3 years before TDSOTM? Also, "Us and Them" is known to have been based from a piece originally composed by Wright for the film Zabriskie Point.

BTW, it is not as if PF discovered something that had never been done before 1973. Scoring a movie is quite a simple process, really. There are different ways to go about it, but, as explained before, you can simply watch the movie and record the exact time where each song has to start. Also, you record the exact time of key moments where you might want to add sound effects, solos... This process is nothing unusual, it is called “spotting”. Afterwards, you get busy writing the music (you can also reuse songs and/or modified existing songs to make them fit the concept). Then, you record the songs and effects. You do not have to record in any particular order. In the last stage of production, you make all the pieces fit the pre-established time signature, and to have plenty of room to play with timing, you can add some “filling” between the tracks (as PF did for TDSOTM and The Wall). This way, you can adjust the start of a song by adding or removing some of that filling.

Edit:

Originally Posted by Azhiri

I'd like to hear about it. I've never really thought about mind control and our society, but I remember an interesting Chuck Palahniuk quote:

"Experts in ancient Greek culture say that people back then didn’t see their thoughts as belonging to them. When ancient Greeks had a thought, it occurred to them as a god or goddess giving an order. Apollo was telling them to be brave. Athena was telling them to fall in love. Now people hear a commercial for sour cream potato chips and rush out to buy, but now they call this free will. At least the ancient Greeks were being honest."

...

It is interesting that you mention this. A friend of mine often correlates mind control or mass manipulation with ancient Greek culture in the very same way as what you wrote. Myself, I believe that from the dawn of Humanity, people with certain knowledge have always controlled the non-initiated. In each epoch, the manipulation techniques used by the elite have been unknown to the masses. I believe every modern society is also controlled to a certain extent; a culture necessarily implies a certain degree of control. For example, people erroneously think that music and movies (or any mass-oriented entertainment) show a reflection of what the masses are or what the masses want, when in reality, it is the music and the movies that mould the masses. Mass-oriented entertainment is primarily a mass manipulation enterprise before it is a money making business. I might write more about this topic (in the context of recurrent themes) at some point...

[pepelepew]

I agree Corsaire that it is possible that AP and RW could get together collaborating in this way, but It is more interesting to understand their motivation beyond being high and or bored. That is also my query regarding the mc dimension. I would think it would have to have a purpose beyond recurring themes and or just screwing with PF fans.Also if you play Dark Side of the Moon backwards you can hear Roger saying " Your scratching the record stupid".
I am not as much doubting your analysis as trying to understand their motivation to do such a thing. Matrix synchs music with Alizee video's he creates. His motivation is obcession with Alizee. That I can understand. Speaking of mind control lol

They say L. Ron Hubbard wrote dianetics on a lark and a bet that he said he could write jibberish and sell a million copies. He won the bet. That is one of the few books I just couldn't get through. Speaking of MC. That book is full of it on so many levels. Sorry for getting off subject everyone.
Actually Corsaire I would like to hear your take on their motivation/strategy for synching to AIW and WOOz.

[Corsaire]

A while back, I came across this piece of information and I remembered this thread. Well, it seems PF synchronised their music to films the exact way I proposed they could have done it. It is fairly simple, really, and I still cannot understand why most people believe it is ludicrous to think they synchronised TDSOTM to TWOO.

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obscured_by_Clouds

At this point in their career, the band were not new to scoring movies. They had already scored the films The Committee in 1968 and More in 1969.
The band was already working on The Dark Side of the Moon during this period, but production was interrupted when the band travelled to France to score the movie. Nick Mason refers to the project:

"After the success of More, we had agreed to do another sound track for Barbet Schroeder. His new film was called La Vallée and we travelled over to France to record the music in the last week of February... We did the recording with the same method we had employed for More, following a rough cut of the film, using stopwatches for specific cues and creating interlinking musical moods that would be cross-faded to suit the final version... The recording time was extremely tight. We only had two weeks to record the soundtrack with a short amount of time afterwards to turn it into an album."

[Tiwaz]

A recurrent team in media seem to be an attack, earthquake or similar large scale disaster in London. Just throwing that out since the olympic games begins in a few weeks

Spooks: Code 9
The series begins in 2012 (just after the 2012 Summer Olympics), when London and some of the south east has been evacuated in the wake of a nuclear attack during the opening ceremony of the Games. The government has relocated to Manchester; Thames House has been decommissioned, and MI5 is forced to set up offices across the UK in an attempt to help Britain avoid new attacks

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/LOffyyBtHTY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

The people at Rockefeller Foundation also have some positive "scenarios for the future"...

Devastating shocks like September 11, the
Southeast Asian tsunami of 2004, and the
2010 Haiti earthquake had certainly primed
the world for sudden disasters. But no one
was prepared for a world in which large-scale
catastrophes would occur with such breathtaking
frequency. The years 2010 to 2020 were dubbed
the “doom decade” for good reason: the 2012
Olympic bombing, which killed 13,000, was
followed closely by an earthquake in Indonesia
killing 40,000, a tsunami that almost wiped
out Nicaragua, and the onset of the West China
Famine, caused by a once-in-a-millennium
drought linked to climate change.
p.34
http://www.rockefellerfoundation.org...eb007cc719.pdf

[Corsaire]

During the recording of TDSOTM: