We need politics and religion threads

[HelixSix]

Mods this is all going on you for not keeping tabs on the shooting thread or else being biased and letting the rule breaking go on. You realize how this place looks when you close threads like that right?

The absolute worst thing you can do is close down threads after you fail to do your job. If you were effective there wouldn't be threads getting locked in the first place. You are no different than school teachers who can't or don't care about keeping their class under control and only wait until a few people have taken things too far then take away the rights of the entire class.

You let people talk just enough to express their views then close the threads with NOTHING being resolved and that's why it carries naturally from thread to thread. If there was one or two threads about core subjects that we could actually calm down and discuss without the need or rush to get in our 10 cents before it's closed then things would go a lot better.

Being suppressed brings out the worst in people. Have any of the mods thought to consider that? If you can't keep an important thread like the theater shooting one open you might want to consider you are the top problem instead of us. Most of us can express ourselves very clearly without vulgarity if actually given the chance in an area for the subject matter.

[lefty12357]

Originally Posted by HelixSix

Mods this is all going on you for not keeping tabs on the shooting thread or else being biased and letting the rule breaking go on. You realize how this place looks when you close threads like that right?

The absolute worst thing you can do is close down threads after you fail to do your job. If you were effective there wouldn't be threads getting locked in the first place. You are no different than school teachers who can't or don't care about keeping their class under control and only wait until a few people have taken things too far then take away the rights of the entire class.

You let people talk just enough to express their views then close the threads with NOTHING being resolved and that's why it carries naturally from thread to thread. If there was one or two threads about core subjects that we could actually calm down and discuss without the need or rush to get in our 10 cents before it's closed then things would go a lot better.

Being suppressed brings out the worst in people. Have any of the mods thought to consider that? If you can't keep an important thread like the theater shooting one open you might want to consider you are the top problem instead of us. Most of us can express ourselves very clearly without vulgarity if actually given the chance in an area for the subject matter.

The owner of this site has set the rules, one of which is no political or religious discussion. So for both mods and members, this rule is really not something we can change. Personally, I agree with the rules of the forum in their current form. The owner of this site has also given the mods some guidelines on how the rules are to be enforced. We try to follow his recommendations as best we can. So please keep in mind that each mod must make judgement calls and these will undoubtedly be, by nature, somewhat inconsistent because we are all different people. Mods are not paid employees, they are volunteers. We are here when we can be, but we cannot guarantee 100% coverage, 24/7/365. That’s why we also rely on members to show some self restraint.

The “spillover” can definitely be a problem, but as I said earlier, having a thread to accommodate these subjects has been ruled out long ago by the forum rules. After all, the main purpose of this site has to do with Alizée, not politics and religion. There are other forums much better suited for such subjects. And in closing, I don’t think your attitude towards the people who volunteer their time here to keep the site functioning is very much appreciated.

[Junkmale]

I agree 100% Lefty.
The Mods do an excellent and very difficult job. They have to try and please everybody and that's almost impossible?
Sometimes threads do cross over into other things (as they do on all Forums) and it's hard to know when the right time is to stop them.
It's very unfair to simply blame everything on the Mods.
The Forum has rules and yes, those rules are not set in concrete but they are there for everyone.
PM's are there and available for anyone to use if they have a problem with a thread or an individual.

[HelixSix]

Lefty, you and Azhiri started the whole debate about gun laws so don't give me all that high and mighty crap. Then Azhiri has the nerve to join the religious discussion but watches it continue a page before abruptly closing it without warning.

The word religion was said or quoted 40 times in that thread before it got closed. So lefty, how damn incompetent are you not to pick up on that or even give a warning?

I'm creating this thread because you guys paid very little attention to the religion and politics rules which are about as clear as you can get on any forum. So if that's the way it is then provide two threads that are the exception to the "rules" you only enforce when you feel like it. That way the subject matter and unresolved matters won't be popping up in other places.

[Future Raptor Ace]

[HelixSix]

FRA I'm one of the guys who thinks it's important to talk about that stuff too. We'd get a chance to agree on some things.

[Azhiri]

Lefty and Junkmale have basically covered it, but as a mod I feel like I need to respond anyway since I feel that, as the mod who locked the thread, at least part of this is directed at me.

I personally like to discuss religion and politics, so I'm with you there. There have been times that I wished that the rules were a little more lenient in that area, but it's not my place to say so or try to get the rules changed, that is up to the owner of the website. Besides... you do realize that there are entire forums on the internet dedicated solely to discussing those things, don't you? I don't mean to be condescending but this is a forum dedicated to a french pop singer, and while this is the "Off-Topic" section of that forum, it's just not something I'd think would be a huge demand for such a place. It's a little like going to eat at Olive Garden and asking them why they don't have teriyaki sauce. If it's really that important to you, I'd think you'd go find such a forum where people talk about politics and religion all day.

Secondly, that thread was made to pay respect to the victims of the shooting and discuss the shooting itself, as well as the perpetrator if one so desired. I realized when making it that it could spark a debate over gun control laws, but I did not expect it to take the turn that it did into religion. I figured that members here would show some restraint when posting if for no other reason than knowing that religion has never been up for discussion here. The thread ran its course as far as the original purpose is concerned.

I certainly didn't WANT to close that thread, but what you need to understand is that sometimes that is your only option - if something goes off-topic or takes an ugly turn in Alizee Discussion over something trivial, it can be hard enough to steer those threads back on track. With something like religion or politics, where people tend to get offended, heated, and emotional (the reason a lot of forums don't allow such discussion in the first place) it's like trying to stop a train. People will discuss what they want to if they really feel it's important, and in that situation, I'd choose to lock a thread. With all due respect, if you feel you would have had a better solution in that thread (other than letting everyone talk it out), I would like to hear it.

If there was one or two threads about core subjects that we could actually calm down and discuss without the need or rush to get in our 10 cents before it's closed then things would go a lot better.

Think good and hard about the mix of regular posters we have here, consider their individual personalities and their posting history that you know of, and tell me how that would work. Use your critical thinking skills and decide whether everyone could really behave themselves in such a thread.

I think the biggest problem here is that you and probably many other members here don't seem to know or understand the rules we have in place as far as what is okay to discuss and what is not. When I lock a thread because religion is becoming the focus, it's not because I'm a mean tyrant, or because I have any bias towards one point or another, or because I want someone specific to get the last word in. I'm locking it because according to the rules set by someone older and with more authority than me, that type of discussion is not allowed. The fact that I let the subject come up at all was lazy modding on my part, but as I've said before, a mod having to step in should be the LAST resort. It starts with YOU GUYS as members to show some personal restraint and discipline and not go there to begin with.

Think of it this way - when the 16-year-old girl has to be the voice of reason, you guys as adults have messed up somewhere down the line.

Sorry for rambling, but I want to make sure we have an understanding here. Lefty is right, your disrespectful attitude is not appreciated and it's not your place to tell us how to do our jobs. As he also pointed out, we are volunteers, not paid babysitters. We do what we can, but when all is said and done we are giving you our time for a thankless job - in fact, the only feedback we ever really get at all are rude posts like this where you try to call us out on some great injustice when everyone should have known better anyway.

Please learn where personal responsibility ends and mod responsibility begins. You seem to be a little confused about that.

Edit:

Originally Posted by HelixSix

Lefty, you and Azhiri started the whole debate about gun laws so don't give me all that high and mighty crap. Then Azhiri has the nerve to join the religious discussion but watches it continue a page before abruptly closing it without warning.

Please show me where I joined in on the religious discussion. I talked about MORALITY, but not religion.

[Scruffydog777]

The mods of this forum are only human. In just about every case,they didn't ask to be mods, they were requested to be mods. Now I'm a piss poor mod. I've been one of Alizee's biggest supporters, but I've also been her biggest critics and I was requested to be a mod. I never checked on that thread, because it really had nothing to do with Alizee. Does that make me a bad part of this forum or does that make me human?

Now as far as religion. On the internet, Alizee was described as being a non practicing catholic, and that was one of my big attractions to her. I'm a non practicing catholic. I believe, but I'm too lazy to go to church on a regular basis. When I found out she was catholic, it meant so much to me. I felt we had something in common. Now, I doubt if shes ever has even seen the inside of a church.

But I am a believer. On my vacation to Italy, I spoke of my trip to the Vatican. I thought about saying some prayers for Alizee, but with all the suffering and fighting going on in the world, I didn't think it was quite appropriate. Then I went to several other places in Italy, including Pistoia and Taormina. I went to those two places for 2 reasons. They were beautiful places and Alizee had performed there.

I posted how I had gone there. Where as in Rome, I didn't feel it was appropriate to pray for Alizee, in these 2 places, I wouldn't have been there if it hadn't been for Alizee so when I stopped in a church I passed by which is my usual custom, I said some prayers for Alizee. I didn't really feel it was right to pray for her success, so I prayed that no matter what happened in life, she'd be happy.

Now under the guide lines of this forum, I probably shouldn't have mentioned one word of those trips to the church, but if I couldn't, I probably wouldn't want a thing to do with this forum and the forum would probably be a much better place for it.But I see no harm in my mentioning those visits and I'm sure many others didn't either and nothing was said. But the thread about the shooting crossed over lines we try to avoid. We and I mean the mods, all have views on subjects and at times, we cant help but to express them and that is a mistake. But like I said, we are human. We try to do a good job and at times we mess up or maybe not handle a situation as well as it should have been handled, but as I mentioned, it's a position we never asked to be put in.

If any mod or forum official should be criticized, it's me for the many mistakes I've made. It's a miracle that I wasn't banned long ago. But these other people do a great job of running this forum. They're human and will make mistakes and/or errors in judgement, but I think "they" do an awesome job of running this forum.

[alizeefan]

i had the same thoughts today about the same topic,thinking perhaps there should be one troll,politic,fight,anything topic and it all kept in one thread as not to have many and clog things up.unfortunately that would spread to other threads.

now a reason i can think of having an off topic banter thread is it would create more interest in this forum.all though i sure was glad that one was locked,even though saying i would not reply i was being drawn back in by replies.like it how it is and kept civil,keeps it clean and without the misconstrued fights which lead to hate and enemies that most can never seem to overcome.which is funny because most of those they agree but just misread each other and then learn a love to hate each other.

As Azhiri stated quite eloquently all in all this place is about music,to add if we want to rag about off topic fight club type subjects there are more than enough other forums for that to goto or even simple enough to make ones own and invite your foes from here on in to discuss such bs.

Edit:

Originally Posted by HelixSix

Lefty, you and Azhiri started the whole debate about gun laws so don't give me all that high and mighty crap. Then Azhiri has the nerve to join the religious discussion but watches it continue a page before abruptly closing it without warning.

The word religion was said or quoted 40 times in that thread before it got closed. So lefty, how damn incompetent are you not to pick up on that or even give a warning?

I'm creating this thread because you guys paid very little attention to the religion and politics rules which are about as clear as you can get on any forum. So if that's the way it is then provide two threads that are the exception to the "rules" you only enforce when you feel like it. That way the subject matter and unresolved matters won't be popping up in other places.

the way of all forums certain members are above the law so to speak and nepotism will happen in any place of this world.not to say there this bothers me in the least,it is not my forum but if it was and one of my admin,mods, family and so on broke a rule oh well too bad so sad.as for popping up in other places...allowing it will be guaranteed to create enemies,they will then many times troll and bait each other no matter even if they agree in the most friendliest of topics they will or better yet to say,may see it as a disagreement and fight over the dumbest things out of hatred for one another.best to keep it how it is and untrolly,while i was quite confused looking for the quote button,almost thought i'd been banned lol...uhmm i dunno,i like it how it is and think the majority do to wether they think of it in terms of this topic or not being a very muchso only friendly place for the most part anyway.

Edit:

Originally Posted by HelixSix

Mods this is all going on you for not keeping tabs on the shooting thread or else being biased and letting the rule breaking go on. You realize how this place looks when you close threads like that right?

I think it looks better that way and give this place a certain sweet air.
Never do i recall or ponder about any disagreements no matter the subject here or what is said,locked,deleted and so on...Which is mainly for the reason that things are kept "clean" .

Originally Posted by HelixSix

The absolute worst thing you can do is close down threads after you fail to do your job. If you were effective there wouldn't be threads getting locked in the first place. You are no different than school teachers who can't or don't care about keeping their class under control and only wait until a few people have taken things too far then take away the rights of the entire class.

The only way i can see accomplishing that would be to have all posts be by approval only...That wouldn't really work too well and the timing of which mods see what all comes into question there . Without being in their minds how do you really know the when , what , why and where . Even what may have been said in many times will be misconstrued by the reader and writers lack of elaboration .

Originally Posted by HelixSix

You let people talk just enough to express their views then close the threads with NOTHING being resolved and that's why it carries naturally from thread to thread. If there was one or two threads about core subjects that we could actually calm down and discuss without the need or rush to get in our 10 cents before it's closed then things would go a lot better.

On that thought i do have to agree but i'd say instead of not locking they be deleted completely . But perhaps the thought there is they want people to be able to at least read what was said ? ? ? As for things going alot better just like right now yourself and i aren't in agreement of locking , it is doubtful i'm changing your mind or you would change mine and we could discuss this back and forth calmly for years . . . While this maybe fun and somewhat constructive usually it is the opposite , not the fun we come here for and constructive demolition .

Originally Posted by HelixSix

Being suppressed brings out the worst in people. Have any of the mods thought to consider that? If you can't keep an important thread like the theater shooting one open you might want to consider you are the top problem instead of us. Most of us can express ourselves very clearly without vulgarity if actually given the chance in an area for the subject matter.

Again as i stated above i really wouldnt mind if there was one troll thread but when given some thought . . They can't control every single thing without making it so every single thing is approved . Things are going to come out that bend and break rules . While being shut up can feel like suppression on the other hand there the good that comes from none or not much of that being allowed in my eyes gives this place such a sweeter feel.

There are quite a few subjects where people speculate or misconstrue what Alizée says in one sentence or a few words into all what they think she thinks .
Most of the time i won't even reply in those topics as i really don't think i'm going to change their minds with my own speculations . Heck i'm sure some of the times i have replied in some of those all i've done is made the people dislike me , a dislike of me reflects upon this forum as i am a part of it . I hope i have explained that clearly and not been misread but at times can be very poorly writ with my wandering thoughts .

Edit:

Originally Posted by Azhiri

]I think the biggest problem here is that you and probably many other members here don't seem to know or understand the rules we have in place as far as what is okay to discuss and what is not.

This is so true , i'm sure i read the rules when i joined right but i've definitely long forgot and only am reminded when someone says no this or that is against the rules or a topic is locked . From my experience there usually i'm just banned without warning at other places or anything for those times of infraction .

Not that bans ever work

[mzracing76]

I agree, I love to talk Politics and Religion, mostly politics. I wish we could talk on those subjects more frequently, but understand why they control it so tightly. Especially Religion. People can hurt feelings if not controled. Which I believe is the reason its not allowed. Which is a shame, a few people will take convos that far as to hurt others. But.......I dont see no need to attack Azhiri, she is respectful, professional, and graceful in her behavior, and she has helped me alot since I have known her here. Sometimes I forget she is only 16. She acts very mature for her age. You got respect Azhiri. And for Lefty, well - he is a fellow Minnesota Twins Fan enough said, lol.

MODS are referees, umpires, officials = seems like everyone hates them, lol. They make calls that sometimes are Judgement Calls based on Perception. You dont always make everyone happy, but hopefully you keep things in line the best you can. Its a hard job trying to find that compromise where everyone can get along.