Im extremely dissapointed in you forum!!

[Taxi Driver Aaron]

I missed a lot of threads and new posts in the last 3 weeks... I been out for school, and taking care of my social life... lol... some people miss posts and threads... it's no biggie... no offense should be taken. Don't assume it's because of a lake of disrespect or lack of interest, or anything negative. Sometimes people are busy, or they simply miss things. We're all human. Except for Fall... that's right Fall!... I'm on to you!

[Merci Alizée]

No lies, I saw the thread and ignored it.

[Junkmale]

I did mean to say something on the thread but was involved in another discussion re Armstrong on another Forum i'm a member of and never got around to it.
Sad day. R.I.P.

[Corsaire]

FRA, I would not have mentioned this so to respect the wishes of the OP of the thread you are referring to, but now that you make such a big deal out of the lack of response, I think I will indulge... I have an excuse for not participating in that other thread. You see, I believe that Neil Armstrong was a fraud for the reason that I am convinced the Apollo program was basically an elaborated PSYOP...

But if I did accept the Apollo missions as being genuine, I would say Armstrong is simply a person who successfully performed the tasks and duties of his job. That is no better than anyone else who has reached the top of his/her profession through competent work, determination and dedication. There is no reason to believe that Armstrong provided anything that was impossible to achieve for other NASA astronauts.

As with most collective trance that have been manufactured through mass media programming, specific moments, specific images and specific faces are necessary to carry a concept. An icon was needed to represent the “unprecedented human achievement” of a man setting foot on another celestial body and Armstrong was specifically trained and used for that purpose. Neil is an icon, which is first and foremost, an image; a representation.

[Future Raptor Ace]

Originally Posted by Corsaire

FRA, I would not have mentioned this so to respect the wishes of the OP of the thread you are referring to, but now that you make such a big deal out of the lack of response, I think I will indulge... I have an excuse for not participating in that other thread. You see, I believe that Neil Armstrong was a fraud for the reason that I am convinced the Apollo program was basically an elaborated PSYOP...

But if I did accept the Apollo missions as being genuine, I would say Armstrong is simply a person who successfully performed the tasks and duties of his job. That is no better than anyone else who has reached the top of his/her profession through competent work, determination and dedication. There is no reason to believe that Armstrong provided anything that was impossible to achieve for other NASA astronauts.

As with most collective trance that have been manufactured through mass media programming, specific moments, specific images and specific faces are necessary to carry a concept. An icon was needed to represent the “unprecedented human achievement” of a man setting foot on another celestial body and Armstrong was specifically trained and used for that purpose. Neil is an icon, which is first and foremost, an image; a representation.

I don't understand your point as well as I find your response to be very factitious! What you are saying is not denied by anyone, NASA, the US Government, or even Neil Armstrong himself! If you think we went to the moon just to go the moon then you are oblivious to the events which have transpired in the last 43+ years. The reasons we went to the moon were of strategical military advantages as well as a huge military, political, physiological, and even morale/pride threat from the Soviet Union. Once again this is not denied by anyone and you will often hear high ranking NASA officials say it again and again. If it wasn't for the Cold War we would have never invested the time and money, hence why haven't returned since; there is no longer a need or competition to do these amazingly risky and costly feats of pushing human ingenuity to its limits! Now after saying all of this rhetoric that really didn't need to be said at all, how does this in anyway classify Neil Armstrong as a fraud????

Simply performed his tasks ... haha ok lets put you up in a Saturn V and see how you can "simply perform your tasks" in what was the most complex machine ever built until the Space Shuttle. The Saturn V is still the most powerful machine man has ever successfully launched, it has been said by several astronauts that the shaking is so bad it feels like your teeth are going to come out! Believe me if you were in that rocket you would be saying more than Shepard’s prayer when those boosters light. His job can’t be compared to "most" jobs, how can you even say that, there are only a very select few of jobs where the chances of dying at any given second exceed 10%! He risked his life and almost lost it, he landed on the moon with only 17-25 seconds left of fuel due to a failure in the lunar guidance computer! Now if you think this is simply performing a task I suggest you listen to the Eagle communication with mission control during the lunar decent! I think if anyone one of us was in that same situation we would be frozen with fear, he was 17-25 seconds away from death all the while having to perform as set of very complex and mind numbing tasks!

"There is no reason to believe that Armstrong provided anything that was impossible to achieve for other NASA astronauts."
That is the only line you said that I can agree with, it was something Neil himself always attested to. He was a very humble man that felt he wasn't any more special than his fellow astronaut peers and that his achievement was the result of hard work from thousands of engineers and scientists; he was just the final peace of the puzzle … more or less his exact words.

"As with most collective trance that have been manufactured through mass media programming, specific moments, specific images and specific faces are necessary to carry a concept. An icon was needed to represent the “unprecedented human achievement” of a man setting foot on another celestial body and Armstrong was specifically trained and used for that purpose. Neil is an icon, which is first and foremost, an image; a representation."
Like I said many times before, this is not denied! One of the reasons Neil Armstrong was chosen to be the first man to walk on the moon was because he was very humble and his character was perfect for one who had the responsibility of being a hero for billions of people; NASA and even Neil himself admit this! How this defects a great man, hero, explorer, innovator, and national icon I have no idea! He still left this world on the hopes of a nation, no a planet, all the while risking his life to go where no man has gone before and even through all of this still remaining humble for the rest of his life; tis be qualities of man all should respect! As I stated in the beginning of my post, I do not see your point! If you want to think Neil Armstrong as a fraud that is fine you can, but I suggest you come up with another reason to because your current one is blatantly wrong and ultimately warped beyond belief! Your post is just a collection of political frustration that may or may not be justified but nevertheless aimed at the wrong target which is not as excusable as this sentence may sound! Maybe your frustration should be directed at the US Government and or the National Aeronautics and Space Administration, in that case I would say maybe you have a point but that discussion is not for this forum!

[Corsaire]

FRA, sorry if this wasn’t clear enough, but I do not believe Neil (or any other man) has been on the moon. That is my reason for calling him a fraud. I guess that reason is even more inadequate in your view, but that is the conclusion I came to after years of researching the issue. And no, I am not one of those “flags in the wind”, “crosshairs behind objects” or “wrong shadows” type of hoax believer.

Also, I never wrote that I would or that most people would do a better job than Neil did. I said that he hasn’t done anything that could not be expected from any other astronaut trained to do his job. Lovell was the commander of the Apollo 11 backup crew and I would say this means NASA was basically putting its trust in the fact that he was equally up to the task. As for your 10% chance of dying at any second, that is a rather surprising statement. Supposedly, 18 astronauts went to the moon and 12 of those apparently walked on the thing, and they all returned without a scratch. Let’s also consider that Apollo 13 did apparently face some critical problems, but the 3 astronauts still made it back alive. So I would say the risks you are stating are, at best, hypothetical.

I would say you are also embellishing Armstrong accomplishments during the landing a bit too much. Armstrong was perfectly aware of the limited risk of his attempt since he did get to such low levels (and even less) of remaining fuel during training. It’s easy to make up stories so we can have heroes to worship, but the reality and the facts (even if I do not believe any of this fantasy tale) are rarely so exciting. And actually, according to the official narrative, the navigation and guidance computer was not the cause of the problem; quite to the contrary, it did perform rather well in the circumstances.

Make Neil the hero that you believe him to be if you wish, but you shouldn’t expect everyone to read historical events the way you do. And again, even if Armstrong’s accomplishments were those that have been officially claimed, I still think there is absolutely no reason to see him as a man who had any profound effect on the whole of humanity. What about the first man to jump off the first boat of the first European expedition in America? What about the first man to reach the shore during the Normandy landings. Are they so special for being the first ones to participate in an accomplishments that have changed the world you live in much more profoundly than anything Armstrong ever did?

[Future Raptor Ace]

LOL of course you dont! I will only say one thing on your hoax subject as for I will not indulge ludicrous ... we have a reflector that was placed up there that astronomers around the world use by shooting a laser at it in which tells us the exact distance the moon is relative to the earth. I don't need to elaborate any further!

As for your 10% chance of dying at any second, that is a rather surprising statement. Supposedly, 18 astronauts went to the moon and 12 of those apparently walked on the thing, and they all returned without a scratch. Let’s also consider that Apollo 13 did apparently face some critical problems, but the 3 astronauts still made it back alive. So I would say the risks you are stating are, at best, hypothetical.

You forgot about Apollo 1 in your statement!

[Corsaire]

Originally Posted by Future Raptor Ace

LOL of course you dont! I will only say one thing on your hoax subject as for I will not indulge ludicrous ... we have a reflector that was placed up there that astronomers around the world use by shooting a laser at it in which tells us the exact distance the moon is relative to the earth. I don't need to elaborate any further!

Ludicrous as in there is absolutely no evidence that a man has set foot on the moon. There is a very convincing counter-argument to any "proof" that has been produced. That includes the laser ranging experiments which have been successfully performed before the Russians or the Americans even claimed to have left any material on the moon. They also have been performed using Russian unmanned mission equipment:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_L...ing_experiment

Some claim that an increased precision can be achieved by using Apollo retroreflectors, but I would say this is not a very strong evidence that a man has walked on the moon.

You forgot about Apollo 1 in your statement!

Apollo 1?? I don’t really care about Apollo missions that were not meant to go to the moon. You seem to think that going to the moon and landing on it was a risk of heroic proportion. This is not verified by facts (the official “facts”, that is) as all the astronauts that have orbited the moon (including Apollo 8 and 10) or walked on it, apparently did return to earth alive. Even the Hollywoodesque Apollo 13 did return the 3 crewmen alive. So, where do you get that it was so perilous to go to the moon? What is it that Neil did that was so heroic and that could not have been done by any other trained mission commander astronaut?

[user472884]

Are you glad you made this thread, FRA?

[Future Raptor Ace]

Originally Posted by Jalen

Are you glad you made this thread, FRA?

Yes I am ... though I am not responsible for Corsaire's actions.