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#11
08-13-2019, 04:49 PM
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As I said, I'm a bit busy in these days, but as soon as I have time, I could recommend to you a few poems I studied at school. I'm not exactly the type of person who read things and poems about love, but the Italian literature is so full of it that, as a student, you just can't avoid this topic Quote:
For example, we have 2 way to say "I love you" in Italian: -ti voglio bene, which is usually used when you are referring to a relative, a friend and so on. If I remember correctly, you haven't an expression like it in English; --ti amo, which literally means "I love you" and it is usually used when you're referring to your personal Alizée lol Quote:
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I'm not really fluent because I haven't spoken in English since I graduated from high school. Maybe my English seems good because when I'm writing I have more time to elaborate the phrases and can stop and think about it. Anyway, as I said, I really appreciate this, because I consider this forum also as a training ground (for example, I have just searched this word on the vocabulary) for my English. So thank you! Edit: Oh and obviously, thank you for all your answers and comments. It's great to be understood about something I can't explain to anyone else.
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Last edited by Aragorn97; 08-13-2019 at 04:49 PM.. Reason: Automerged Doubleposts 
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#12
08-13-2019, 09:05 PM
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Hey Aragorn, how are you?!
 Firstly, as Bamagirl stated, your English is excellent, so, no worries there…  Quote:
 “Been there”, “seen it”, “done that”… Probably still “doing it”, if I’m going to be totally honest…  Quote:
Lets see, in my own case, in my life so far, there have been 3 “Great”, “loves of my life”, 2 “near misses”, and quite a few, emm, how can I put this “politely”, “sensual dalliances”… So, at your age, you probably have a lot of “fun” stuff, to “see” and “do”, with regard to the “opposite sex”, still to look forward to. Quote:
Will get back to that one later… Quote:
So why/how “in the name of god”, does this tiny little French/Corsican girl literally “spellbind” me?  Why does there feel like there is some sort of “spiritual/karmic” “bond” or “tie” there? It makes no sense, taking into account all of the above, and to be honest, it does sometimes trouble me immensely, and, gets really “irksome” at times... I like to pride myself on being “untouchable” and “inscrutable”, and along comes Alizée, a “total stranger”, and a “French” one at a that, and “pow”, all “sense” and “sanity”, “goes out the window”… Jeez, I just don’t get it… Anyhow, back to the topic… Quote:
The word “love” gets “bandied about” a lot, and used in a hugely “broad” swath of contexts, that to be honest, are hugely “inaccurate”. We use the term a lot in life, to describe a wide range of totally disparate ideas and concepts, that are mostly just “sophistry”, to be honest, and use it incorrectly, most of the time... Technically, in the “truest” sense, it is NOT possible to “love” someone that you do not actually know. A lot of these other “feelings” that we loosely term as being “love”, are actually, “something else”, that I’m not really going to go into here, cause it would take waay too long… However… This “thread”, and the “Women and Alizée” “thread” made me “pause for thought”, and caused a lot of pretty “savage” introspection on my part, with regard the effect that Alizée has had on “my life”, “my emotions” and “my relationships”, overall. In fact, it perturbed me that much, that I actually went and performed a little psychological “experiment” with regard to the whole “phenomenon”. Now, I will admit, with regard to “true scientific method”, and “overall validity”, my “sample size” was too small, and my “control group” unfortunately most likely had some “bias” built in, and, I was exploring several “hypotheses” at the same time, so there is absolutely no danger of this ever being published as a serious “paper”, but, it did “illuminate” several points for me. The first thing that was emm, “investigated”, for want of a better word, was the difference in “perceptions” of “my Alizée”, vs, “Joe Public’s Alizée”… Basically, the subjects, were shown a variety of Alizée’s videos from most of the salient points in her career, shown some really “nice photos shoots”, and supplied with a variety of relevant biographical materials about her life. Reactions of the “Alizée fans”, and, “everyone else” were then compared. Not going to detail the reactions of the “Alizée fans”, for you don’t have to look any further than here, in this very “forum”, to get an idea of what they were. Suffice to say, they were just “biased to the max”… Now, the “non fans” reactions were interesting, and basically “boiled down” to this, that Alizée is: A 34 year old French/Corsican lady; Is an ex-singer/dancer that had a “moderately successful”, but very “short lived” showbiz career; Rates a “5 to 6.5”/10 on the “cuteness” scale, “then” and “now”; Is/was “alright/pretty”, “girl next door type”, “nothing really special”… Has a “cute” daughter; Has a “cute” and “very talented” husband; Has 2 “very cute” dogs; Lives in Ajaccio, Corsica, which looks really nice; Likes “sneakers” a lot; Has a quirky fashion sense/style; Is very “human”… That was basically it… At the “end of the day”, to “them”, she was “nothing special”, really, at all… Which is probably the viewpoint of about 99.99999% of “everyone” with regard to this particular subject…  Well, you can imagine how I was taking all of this… I think I went through every emotion ranging from “anger”, to “outrage”, to “sorrow”, and everything in between… Was almost ready to start “breaking out” the “pitchforks” and “torches” and declare a “jihad” upon the “infidels” and “unbelievers”… But, at the “end of the day”, I had to admit that they were “not wrong”, and that maybe I was just a “tad” “biased”, ok, maybe “outrageously biased” and “totally subjective”, in my “thoughts” and “assertions” with regard to Alizée … There is the key word, “subjective”… With regard to “myself”, and my “relationship”, so to speak, with “Alizée”, and her “life” and “works”, compared to most of all of the “guys” here, at this forum, I’m probably the “worst fan ever”… I prefer her “later” “works” to her earlier stuff, for they are more “relevant” to me. I was never “hooked” nor “captivated” by the early “Lolli” stuff, for to me, she was young/old enough to be my “daughter”, and, to me personally, all that “era” of her work just “reeked” of a kind of “seedy exploitation” that was not altogether “right”, or “wholesome”, and just “awoke” the “nurturing/protective” instincts in me. Now, make no mistake, at that particular “time”, I totally acknowledge her sensuality/sexuality, in all its many “facets”, but I was old enough to be her “father”, so it just wasn’t “appropriate”, at all. Her “post MF/LB” works came to my attention just as my “life” had just “totally slid on its face”, and, “fell into the toilet”, so to speak. I was in the “throes” of a pretty traumatic divorce, and worse than that, due to the “dictat” of my “career” at that time, I had to act as if “nothing was going on”, “put a smile on my face”, and “get on with it”, but there was Alizée, a “fellow survivor”, and her works then were especially “poignant”, “meaningful” and “healing” for me, as they always will be, to me… They helped me to drag myself through, and out, of that part of my life… I have nothing but the “deepest of affection”, and “greatest”, most “profound respect” for this “little lady”, and nothing will ever change that, but I do personally keep things “rigidly in context”… I am, and always will be, a totally unknown stranger. “Faceless”, “unknown” and “inconsequential”, which pretty much sums all of that up. I’m not going to use the word “love”, for I do not “know” her, at all, and besides, it would not be “appropriate”, anyhow, for she is married to a husband, that she loves to “utter distraction”, which I think is just “pure dead brilliant”, and they get to be “happy”. She has more than earned it in so many ways. Now, I am aware that the way I “regard” Alizée, the way I “see” her, is totally “subjective” to me, to “myself”, and no-one else regards her in the same way. They can’t possibly, for we have all had different “life experiences”. I have this “theory”, also, this “hunch”, that when we view these old videos of Alizée’s, these “digital mementoes”, “pictorial ghosts”, “remnants” of times long gone, that never really “were” in the first place, that we find, in “the Alizée” there, “exactly”, what “we”, the “individual”, “subjectively” so deeply “want”, “need” and “require”, in whatever “form” and “type” it should take. In short, we “subjectively” see what we most desperately need/require to “survive”/”heal”/”whatever”… We see what “we need” to see… Which much of the time “does not”, “will not”, and “cannot”, “gel” with “objective reality”, as in what “outsiders” will most likely see, as in the “stuff” listed “above”… Which is why I would “go easy” on trying to “explain” your own “personal appreciation” of Alizée to the “unenlightened” or “unitiated”, such as in “friends”, “partners”, “wives” or “significant others”, for it is very hard trying to justify a “viewpoint” or an “idea”, a “something”, that “only you” can “see”… If you try this, then you may be, “best case scenario” regarded as being “quaint” or “rather eccentric”. “Worst case scenario”, you might get “tagged” as, (depending on your “age group”), as being “delusional”, “somewhat insane”, or, even as being some kind of “paedophile chickenhawk” or “something”. “They” are probably not going to “understand”, at all, specially if “they” happens to be your “Wife”, or “significant other”… That’s just a “recipe for disaster”… Yes, it is easily possible to “love” several people at the one time, but you have to be “wary” about the “type” of “love” we are talking about, and the way that you “express” it… If you put “your” love for “your Alizée” “before” that of a “partner”, or “wife”, then, there are probably a few “problems” there than need to be looked at “quickly”, or you are going to be “justifiably”, and very quickly, “alone”… I’ve personally never ever had a problem with this, nor with any partner objecting to my Alizée “admiration”, for this usually just takes the form of my watching a couple of Alizée’s videos online, as part of a “playlist” and checking up on how her, Greg, and the “rest of the family” are doing on Instagram. If I ever get any “objections” to that, or any “queries”, I quickly point out that that WAS Alizée when she WAS 16, WAS 18, WAS 24, whenever, and this is NOW, as above. Alizée NOW is a happily married, very pregnant, 34 year old French/Corsican lady, with a cute daughter and two cute dogs. Key word “WAS”. This is NOW. End of story… “NOW” trumps “WAS”… That explanation usually got me off any “hook” that I was “caught” on, so it was never really a problem… But then again, I’m probably not Alizée’s greatest fan, so the “damage” was thus easier to “mitigate”… <sigh> Y’know, realistically, “a bird in the hand, is worth ten in your mind”, if I may “paraphrase” an old saying. Speaking as an ex-Clinical Psychologist, “reality” trumps “fantasy”, or it “should”, but “life” is “life”, and sometimes it doesn’t, and that’s when you “fix the problems”, “make a change”, or go see one of these nice “therapist” people. I tend to look upon the whole thing, overall, as being kind of like a very strong, “crush” on someone, that does, and should, wear off after a while… It can happen to “any” and “all” of us, and with regard to Alizée, I’m probably just as “ afflicted” as everyone else here, but it can go too far… “Can You Be Addicted To Love? We Take A Look At Limerence” https://www.huffingtonpost.com.au/20...ce_a_23268811/ If that sounds at all “familiar”, then, most likely something in your life may need "looked at" and and/or fixed… Anyhow… This will “pass”, and one day, that “someone”, will enter your life… Until then, fellow “lost soul”, enjoy, for as CleverCowboy so succinctly put it… Quote:
Last edited by RedRafe; 08-14-2019 at 12:56 AM..
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#13
08-14-2019, 10:34 AM
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I think the point of all this thing is exactly this: I know what I said is something really strange, but the problem is that you could be right from the theoretical point of view. In practice, anything is possible. That's why I turn to some poets for help, especially Dante. As I said, he basically fell in love with a stranger. Beatrice was married to another man and died very young. Dante was also married but he never stopped loving her. And 700 years ago there weren't videos and photos that could help him to remember: it was all in his mind. I think it is the same for me and all of us. Quote:
But this could be a problem about this Alizée thing. Because I can't compare the "usual type of love" with this strong feelings I have towards Alizée. I can't distinguish "real love": maybe Alizée is my real and only love, maybe is "only" a kind of soulmate (as, i think, Mr Coucou said), who knows? The only one who can answer is me, but not now. I know that all this thing will pass, as you said, because it is different to simply have videos and songs of some famous person instead of someone who is actually close to you during your life. Alizée doesn't even know of my existence. But she will always be a part of my heart, that's for sure. To be honest, using your and CleverCowboy's words, I haven't set any bar. I think love is an innate thing of human beings: If I see a girl, I don't stop and think "Alizée is better". The fact is that when I see a girl, my mind goes to Alizée as though I don't control it. I mean, I do nothing. It's like breathing: you do it all the time even if you're not thinking about it. I don't look for a girl on the same level or Alizée, or a girl like her. I have her in my mind, there is no "classification". And yes, I do think I have a lot of "fun things" to do at my age, but the problem is the same: I want someone I love at my side. I mean, those "sensual dalliances" seem something really fun lol, maybe I could enjoy them , but, I don't know, I just want "my personal Alizée". So now the question is: does my personal Alizée coincide with the actual Alizée (Jacotey)? This is a very clumsy way to say: who is the love of my life? Quote:
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So I don't know if this i-love-alizée thing will pass, probably yes, but she'll always be the woman that let me in this weird place called love. A very strange type of love. Probably, in a few years I'll see Alizée as an old friend of mine. For now "enjoy the ride", because is awesome!
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#14
08-15-2019, 05:54 AM
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I've just read something from the Divina Commedia in English and, as I expected, I have to say that I prefer the original version. These types of works have so many details that it is difficult to keep them in their translations. The same thing goes for the author's style. And, anyway I think I'm too used to the original version, because there are phrases that are legendary in our culture. I can also recommend you something about the type of love we're talking about: during the 13th century we had this literary movement, called "Dolce stil novo", which had some interesting concepts and topics like the so-called "angel-like woman", which I suggest you to analyze. There were many poets, like Cavalcanti and obviously Dante. This is one of my favorite poems among the few I know and, if I remember correctly, the manifesto af Stil novo. It is really spot on http://limegreenlight.blogspot.com/2...-pare.html?m=1 I've seen that there are a lot of different translations in English, so probably you could find a better one, but this one seems good. There is also a short analysis.
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#15
08-15-2019, 11:11 AM
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Last edited by CleverCowboy; 08-15-2019 at 11:11 AM.. Reason: Automerged Doubleposts
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#16
08-16-2019, 08:12 AM
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You have the capacity to feel deep love and to cherish special qualities in a person. Trust me, you will find that! Just don't rush into anything and don't try to force it...it will come in its own time. In the meantime, enjoy being yourself, growing and maturing and learning more about yourself. And enjoy the feelings you have for Alizée without worrying about them or fearing you won't experience them for anyone else. Developing this ability to feel love will help enable you to give love to someone in your life, one day--and to express it fully. Anyway...that's my advice and I'll stop my sermon now! Quote:
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Last edited by Bamagirl; 08-16-2019 at 08:12 AM.. Reason: Automerged Doubleposts
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#17
08-16-2019, 12:15 PM
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#18
08-16-2019, 03:58 PM
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I can assure you that speaking another language gives a great boost to your culture and life. You access a lot of different things (right now I'm reading a book in English), like for example this very forum! But anyway your mother tongue is English, so you should be less affected by this. I mean, English is the most popular language in the world. If it can help you, I have something to regret, too. When I was 11-13, I studied French at school. But it was only for 3 years, I was a child and didn't like French and my teacher, again, was useless. Now, I understand very little about this language... When I finish university, I would like to sign up for a French course, but I don't know if I will have time to do it: for now I'll probably concentrate on English because it is fundamental for future and anyway I have to improve in spoken language. Edit: Quote:
I'm really happy to hear that you like it. The Stil novo is a great source of these kind of poems. But I've just remembered another one, which is really good. It is called La pioggia nel pineto, by Gabriele D'annunzio (it should be early 20th century). Anyway I'm not actually the kind of guy who read poems, so I know not many of them. But if I find my literature books or just remember other poems, I'll tell you. Anyway if you want to ask me anything about Italian literature, I'll be happy to help
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Last edited by Aragorn97; 08-16-2019 at 03:58 PM.. Reason: Automerged Doubleposts
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#19
08-16-2019, 04:36 PM
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