May 21st 2011 doomsday!

[Naft]

Originally Posted by Future Raptor Ace

Well what you herd can be right becuase no one is really sure, most calculations right now are just estimates and will get more precise as time goes on. However from the scientists I have listened to, they all say the earth will be consumed. The size of a star has nothing to do with forming a super nova, a super nova is the final death blow of a star and that is when it explodes from burning all of its energy.

Yes that is correct, becuase our bodies have less force on them so our body adapts and becomes weaker. However im sure starships will all have centrifuges so we wont have to worry about a 0 gravity environment.

"There have been works to try to get around E=Mc², one of the many theories is that you crush space in front of you as you make a wave of space behind you"
You're talking about Michio Kaku's theory, it is a very interesting one for sure. His theory would work assuming one can bend space time. Blackholes are right now the only thing that man knows of that can bend space time and im not sure having a black hole around a ship would be a good idea. For one .. time would be slowed down for everyone on board the ship and also they would constantly have to worry about being sucked into the singularity. Michio Kaku had an episode about this on his science channel show I am assuming you saw this as well. I am a huge fan of his books but I think he is too much of a sci-fi guy and not a realist like other scientists.... but hey maybe that's a good thing.
Its really nice talking to people who know about some of my favorite physicists .... good deal guys!! Remember this kids name Jacob Barnett. You will be hearing a lot about him in the future. He is just a kid now, but he understands things far beyond what it took me my whole 20 year life to just begin to comprehend. He is said to have an IQ high than that of Einstein's and is already on his way for a PHD. Watch his videos and videos he is in, you will learn a lot from him. I try to do this when ever I can in my spare time.
Also I like to go here and attend some lectures when ever I can as well, they are free!
http://www.youtube.com/user/MIT
http://www.youtube.com/user/khanacademy?feature=chclk
^whenever I want to brush up on somethings I go to these two links

For the worm hole ... the problem is you have to have two black holes that intersect creating a tunnel through space time and at the same time you have to avoid their singularities. The first black hole (the entrance) is the easy part, but how is one going to make the exit at the destination? There is too many moving parts the the worm hole approach which is why I don't think it will ever be implemented. I agree with you, it is just not practical and that's assuming our space time is shaped like a sphere or a hyperbolic paraboloid, if space time is flat a worm hole is impossible so there's that to take into account as well.

Heh yeah I herd that, I will see everyone October 22nd

The size may not, but the mass has. Ours has too little mass to supernova. I've heard of Jacob Barnett before, I just can't wait until he grows up, I heard he already tried disproving the big bang theory, and he's only 12.

I agree on the rest though, a worm hole is far too inefficient, but it's an appealing thought, and I don't know why but I always think of the universe as a perfect sphere growing like someone blowing up a balloon. It might be because of Stephen Hawking and his quote: "The universe is finite in size but without boundaries".

I will watch those links later, right now I have learned the most I know of certain websites scattered across the internet with various sources, Carl Sagan and Neil himself. If only I had more time!

You are right about the inconvenience that comes with Mr. Kaku's theory, and you're right in that I watched it, but I see it as a frontier more than an impossibility.

[Future Raptor Ace]

Originally Posted by Naft

The size may not, but the mass has. Ours has too little mass to supernova. I've heard of Jacob Barnett before, I just can't wait until he grows up, I heard he already tried disproving the big bang theory, and he's only 12.

I agree on the rest though, a worm hole is far too inefficient, but it's an appealing thought, and I don't know why but I always think of the universe as a perfect sphere growing like someone blowing up a balloon. It might be because of Stephen Hawking and his quote: "The universe is finite in size but without boundaries".

I will watch those links later, right now I have learned the most I know of certain websites scattered across the internet with various sources, Carl Sagan and Neil himself. If only I had more time!

You are right about the inconvenience that comes with Mr. Kaku's theory, and you're right in that I watched it, but I see it as a frontier more than an impossibility.

Im not sure I agree about the supernova but that's ok.
Yea Jacob Barnett claims he is in the process of getting his amended big bang theory published. The shape of the universe and the shape of space time are two different things (I know its confusing). If the big bang is true the universe is and ever expanding sphere like you said but their is in fact a theoretical boundary in which stars start to disappear. Whether that is a physical boundary or not is still being debated among scientists; so the answer to that is still not known. Conversely space time is most likely to be a flat plane that we constantly move forward on never being allowed to go back. Though like I said before 2 other shapes are also excepted as possible shapes among the scientific community and that is a sphere or a hyperbolic paraboloid which looks like a pringle potato chip. Yea Carl Sagan... if only he was around today, I might apply for grad school at Cornell only becuase Mr. Sagan was there... I know that's kinda lame

[Naft]

Originally Posted by Future Raptor Ace

Im not sure I agree about the supernova but that's ok.
Yea Jacob Barnett claims he is in the process of getting his amended big bang theory published. The shape of the universe and the shape of space time are two different things (I know its confusing). If the big bang is true the universe is and ever expanding sphere like you said but their is in fact a theoretical boundary in which stars start to disappear. Whether that is a physical boundary or not is still being debated among scientists; so the answer to that is still not known. Conversely space time is most likely to be a flat plane that we constantly move forward on never being allowed to go back. Though like I said before 2 other shapes are also excepted as possible shapes among the scientific community and that is a sphere or a hyperbolic paraboloid which looks like a pringle potato chip. Yea Carl Sagan... if only he was around today, I might apply for grad school at Cornell only becuase Mr. Sagan was there... I know that's kinda lame

Confusing doesn't even begin to describe it.

I am still stuck to the theory about the big bang that it will continue to expand for several more billions of years, and then when all the stars eventually fade and all the heat energy that is present today disappears a contraction will occur. This would in turn create a gravitational singularity, "rebooting" the universe and creating a new big bang. If he manages to disprove it I'm impressed, and I sure hope that he proves one beginning of a universe so that all of those people that says "it can't have come from nothing!!!" will shut up.

Carl Sagan was a genius that died too early, but at least his thoughts are documented in books, most of which I am proud to possess.

It is not silly, Sagan was a genius that I would love to have as a professor, I would gladly change country just to have that privilege. Sadly it is no longer possible, so America has lost all of the appeal it had on me.

[Future Raptor Ace]

Originally Posted by Naft

Confusing doesn't even begin to describe it.

I am still stuck to the theory about the big bang that it will continue to expand for several more billions of years, and then when all the stars eventually fade and all the heat energy that is present today disappears a contraction will occur. This would in turn create a gravitational singularity, "rebooting" the universe and creating a new big bang. If he manages to disprove it I'm impressed, and I sure hope that he proves one beginning of a universe so that all of those people that says "it can't have come from nothing!!!" will shut up.

Carl Sagan was a genius that died too early, but at least his thoughts are documented in books, most of which I am proud to possess.

It is not silly, Sagan was a genius that I would love to have as a professor, I would gladly change country just to have that privilege. Sadly it is no longer possible, so America has lost all of the appeal it had on me.

Well the energy itself never disappears remember energy is conserved and can never be created nor destroyed. Also I don't think he is disproving it, he amending it a bit but the "something from nothing" argument is false. There was always "something" and that something being dark matter ... the building block to our universe. Hawking explained it in detail a lot of which is way beyond my knowledge.
Yea he was but hey, a part of him will virtually live forever. A drawing he drew of mankind carved in gold on voyager will last till the end of time.
Im sure his ideas, fundamental to humans space exploration, will also immortalize him!

[Naft]

Originally Posted by Future Raptor Ace

Well the energy itself never disappears remember energy is conserved and can never be created nor destroyed. Also I don't think he is disproving it, he amending it a bit but the "something from nothing" argument is false. There was always "something" and that something being dark matter ... the building block to our universe. Hawking explained it in detail a lot of which is way beyond my knowledge.
Yea he was but hey, a part of him will virtually live forever. A drawing he drew of mankind carved in gold on voyager will last till the end of time.
Im sure his ideas, fundamental to humans space exploration, will also immortalize him!

In about 100 bilion years, the entire universe will suffer a disastrous event known as "heat death" and there will be no energy left in the entire universe, causing it to collapse back into a singularity, restarting the cycle. At least that's what I've read up on. It is beyond my knowledge to try to explain this, but it's a theory from the 1800s by some American whom I can't remember the name of.

Are you sure you aren't talking about dark energy? There's dark matter for ~20%, ordinary for about 5%, and the rest is dark energy, making it seem logical that it is far more dominant. Anyhow, as I see it, there wasn't always the space that is there today. As our universe is expanding we are space is expanding from a void, what is outside is non-existent and that is the way it has been, ever since that pinhead was starting to expand.

A quote I just felt I need to include:
“The universe is made mostly of dark matter and dark energy, and we don't know what either of them is”

Yes, I realize disproving is a rough word to use in the context, but I am sure it'll need to adapt, or completely change several times before we can prove how it really came to happen.

Yes and he even explained it! I think it was in the very last Cosmos episode that he showed a slide show of some of the pictures, and said that it would reach the middle of our beautiful galaxy, and would float around there until someone stopped it in its way. A beautiful thought if you think about it, something from the 80's will last forever and be a reminder of our race, what we used to be and how magnificent our planet was, before we/asteroid/Harold Camping ruined it.

[Future Raptor Ace]

Originally Posted by Naft

In about 100 bilion years, the entire universe will suffer a disastrous event known as "heat death" and there will be no energy left in the entire universe, causing it to collapse back into a singularity, restarting the cycle. At least that's what I've read up on. It is beyond my knowledge to try to explain this, but it's a theory from the 1800s by some American whom I can't remember the name of.

Are you sure you aren't talking about dark energy? There's dark matter for ~20%, ordinary for about 5%, and the rest is dark energy, making it seem logical that it is far more dominant. Anyhow, as I see it, there wasn't always the space that is there today. As our universe is expanding we are space is expanding from a void, what is outside is non-existent and that is the way it has been, ever since that pinhead was starting to expand.

A quote I just felt I need to include:
“The universe is made mostly of dark matter and dark energy, and we don't know what either of them is”

Yes, I realize disproving is a rough word to use in the context, but I am sure it'll need to adapt, or completely change several times before we can prove how it really came to happen.

Yes and he even explained it! I think it was in the very last Cosmos episode that he showed a slide show of some of the pictures, and said that it would reach the middle of our beautiful galaxy, and would float around there until someone stopped it in its way. A beautiful thought if you think about it, something from the 80's will last forever and be a reminder of our race, what we used to be and how magnificent our planet was, before we/asteroid/Harold Camping ruined it.

Oh wow no I never herd of that theory I will be sure to read up on it! Are you sure it is still valid though? I mean it is the 1800s shortly after Newton and way before Einstein, so a lot has changed since then. From what I read from Hawking it is dark matter not dark energy, I might be wrong though it has been over a year. The non existent part is something that has been revised as of resent, physicists now say they exist but in a different state of matter I believe it turns into dark matter. Apparently dark matter has massive amounts of energry and can even be used to create a black hole but we have only created microscopic amounts. I have herd that for dark matter to be used as fuel we would need an earth's mass amount ... so that's the challenge in that. Also like you said very little is actually known about dark matter though that is in the process of changing.
Yea I think the big bang theory will change a lot as time goes on, and that is because there is a lot of current questions that still haven't been answered in the theory. One thing we know by using the light spectrum on stars is that the universe is expanding and that has to lead one to definitely believe their was some giant explosion at a some singularity at some point.
I love that too, it could very well be the only thing of man-kind that will last .... it is our only real footprint amongst the cosmos and hopefully one day another species will see it! There is also a golden record ... I forgot which craft its on but it has some of earths best music on it.

[Naft]

Originally Posted by Future Raptor Ace

Oh wow no I never herd of that theory I will be sure to read up on it! Are you sure it is still valid though? I mean it is the 1800s shortly after Newton and way before Einstein, so a lot has changed since then. From what I read from Hawking it is dark matter not dark energy, I might be wrong though it has been over a year. The non existent part is something that has been revised as of resent, physicists now say they exist but in a different state of matter I believe it turns into dark matter. Apparently dark matter has massive amounts of energry and can even be used to create a black hole but we have only created microscopic amounts. I have herd that for dark matter to be used as fuel we would need an earth's mass amount ... so that's the challenge in that. Also like you said very little is actually known about dark matter though that is in the process of changing.
Yea I think the big bang theory will change a lot as time goes on, and that is because there is a lot of current questions that still haven't been answered in the theory. One thing we know by using the light spectrum on stars is that the universe is expanding and that has to lead one to definitely believe their was some giant explosion at a some singularity at some point.
I love that too, it could very well be the only thing of man-kind that will last .... it is our only real footprint amongst the cosmos and hopefully one day another species will see it! There is also a golden record ... I forgot which craft its on but it has some of earths best music on it.

It is unknown whether it is valid or not, some people argue that it will not occur because an expanding universe can't reach a temperature that low for this to be possible, but don't take my word for it and read this Wikipedia article, I am not sure what Hawking s view on the whole thing is, but I think he has one in some of his journals or something, I will have to check that up.

What you say about dark matter might be true, I haven't checked into that very much but I will later!

Oh Johnny B. Goode, how you will be loved by another species, if they have the curiosity to be interested in it, and enough "luck" to be able to open it and play all of these things.

Yeah, the expansion is proven, stating that it was at a singularity at one point, however there are many mysteries left to reveal before we get remotely close to a complete model of space 14 billion years ago.


Here's the list, rewritten by me as it was originally done by Carl Sagan in A pale blue dot:

"Accordingly, as each Voyager left Earth for the planets and the stars, it carried with it a golden phonograph record encased in a golden, mirrored jacket containing, among other things: greetings in 59 human languages and one whale language; a 12-minute sound essay including a kiss, a baby's cry, and an EEG record of the meditations of a young woman in love; 116 encoded pictures, on our science, our civilization, and ourselves; and 90 minutes of the Earth's greatest hits-- Eastern and Western, classical and folk, including a Navajo night chant, a Japanese shakuhachi piece, a Pygmy girl's initiation song, a Peruvian wedding song, a 3,000-year old composition for the ch'in called "Flowing Streams," Bach, Beethoven, Mozart, Stravinsky, Louis Armstrong, Blind Willie Johnson, and Chuck Berry's "Johnny B. Goode. Space is nearly empty. There is virtually no chance that one of the Voyagers will ever enter another solar system-- and this is true even if every star in the sky is accompanied by planets. The instructions on the record jackets, written in what we believe to be readily comprehensible scientific hieroglyphics, can be read, and the contents of the records understood, only if alien beings, somewhere in the remote future, find Voyager in the depths of interstellar space. Since both Voyagers will circle the center of the Milky Way Galaxy essentially forever, there is plenty of time for the records to be found-- if there's anyone out there to do the finding.
We cannot know how much of the records they would understand. Surely the greetings will be incomprehensible, but their intent may not be. (We thought it would be impolite not to say hello.) The hypothetical aliens are bound to be very different from us--independently evolved on another world.
Are we really sure they could understand anything at all of our message? Every time I feel these concerns stirring, thought, I reassure myself: Whatever the incomprehensibilities, of the Voyager record, any alien ship that finds it will have another standard by which to judge us. Each Voyager is itself a message.
In their exploratory intent, in the lofty ambition of their objectives, in their utter lack of intent to do arm, and in the brilliance of their design and performance, these robots speak eloquently for us.
But being much more advanced scientists and engineers than we-- otherwise they would never be able to find and retrieve the small, silent spacecraft in interstellar space--perhaps the aliens would have no difficulty understanding what is encoded on these golden records. Perhaps they would recognize the tentativeness of our society, the mismatch between our technology and our wisdom. Have we destroyed ourselves since launching Voyager, they might wonder, or have we gone on to greater things?
Or perhaps the records will never be intercepted. Perhaps no one in five billion years will ever come upon them. Five billion years is a long time. In five billion years, all humans will have become extinct or evolved into other beings, none of our artifacts will have survived on Earth, the continents will have become unrecognizably altered or destroyed, and the evolution of the Sun will have burned the Earth to a crisp or reduced it to a whirl of atoms.
Far from home, untouched by these remote events, the Voyagers, bearing the memories of a world that is no more, will fly on."

[Future Raptor Ace]

Originally Posted by Naft

It is unknown whether it is valid or not, some people argue that it will not occur because an expanding universe can't reach a temperature that low for this to be possible, but don't take my word for it and read this Wikipedia article, I am not sure what Hawking s view on the whole thing is, but I think he has one in some of his journals or something, I will have to check that up.

What you say about dark matter might be true, I haven't checked into that very much but I will later!

Oh Johnny B. Goode, how you will be loved by another species, if they have the curiosity to be interested in it, and enough "luck" to be able to open it and play all of these things.

Yeah, the expansion is proven, stating that it was at a singularity at one point, however there are many mysteries left to reveal before we get remotely close to a complete model of space 14 billion years ago.


Here's the list, rewritten by me as it was originally done by Carl Sagan in A pale blue dot:

"Accordingly, as each Voyager left Earth for the planets and the stars, it carried with it a golden phonograph record encased in a golden, mirrored jacket containing, among other things: greetings in 59 human languages and one whale language; a 12-minute sound essay including a kiss, a baby's cry, and an EEG record of the meditations of a young woman in love; 116 encoded pictures, on our science, our civilization, and ourselves; and 90 minutes of the Earth's greatest hits-- Eastern and Western, classical and folk, including a Navajo night chant, a Japanese shakuhachi piece, a Pygmy girl's initiation song, a Peruvian wedding song, a 3,000-year old composition for the ch'in called "Flowing Streams," Bach, Beethoven, Mozart, Stravinsky, Louis Armstrong, Blind Willie Johnson, and Chuck Berry's "Johnny B. Goode. Space is nearly empty. There is virtually no chance that one of the Voyagers will ever enter another solar system-- and this is true even if every star in the sky is accompanied by planets. The instructions on the record jackets, written in what we believe to be readily comprehensible scientific hieroglyphics, can be read, and the contents of the records understood, only if alien beings, somewhere in the remote future, find Voyager in the depths of interstellar space. Since both Voyagers will circle the center of the Milky Way Galaxy essentially forever, there is plenty of time for the records to be found-- if there's anyone out there to do the finding.
We cannot know how much of the records they would understand. Surely the greetings will be incomprehensible, but their intent may not be. (We thought it would be impolite not to say hello.) The hypothetical aliens are bound to be very different from us--independently evolved on another world.
Are we really sure they could understand anything at all of our message? Every time I feel these concerns stirring, thought, I reassure myself: Whatever the incomprehensibilities, of the Voyager record, any alien ship that finds it will have another standard by which to judge us. Each Voyager is itself a message.
In their exploratory intent, in the lofty ambition of their objectives, in their utter lack of intent to do arm, and in the brilliance of their design and performance, these robots speak eloquently for us.
But being much more advanced scientists and engineers than we-- otherwise they would never be able to find and retrieve the small, silent spacecraft in interstellar space--perhaps the aliens would have no difficulty understanding what is encoded on these golden records. Perhaps they would recognize the tentativeness of our society, the mismatch between our technology and our wisdom. Have we destroyed ourselves since launching Voyager, they might wonder, or have we gone on to greater things?
Or perhaps the records will never be intercepted. Perhaps no one in five billion years will ever come upon them. Five billion years is a long time. In five billion years, all humans will have become extinct or evolved into other beings, none of our artifacts will have survived on Earth, the continents will have become unrecognizably altered or destroyed, and the evolution of the Sun will have burned the Earth to a crisp or reduced it to a whirl of atoms.
Far from home, untouched by these remote events, the Voyagers, bearing the memories of a world that is no more, will fly on."

Oh god your link takes me back to thermodynamics class with entropy and those horrible tables lol. I dont know what my veiw on that is, I suppose its possible though I think there is likely chance, becuase of the theory's age, that it can be wrong.
I always thought wouldn't it be funny if music to them sounds absolutely horrid But yea I think they will not understand anything we say but hopefully they will know we are out there. Though Hawking warns against this, he claims "meeting aliens would be like when Columbus came to the new world and that didn't turn out so well for the Indians" (not an exact quote but very close to it) What if we are the Indians lol ... that would not be too good! I always disagree with people when they say "they are more advanced than us if they can do this... or that." I personally feel it isnt that clear cut. Maybe they are more advanced in one aspect but far behind in others. It all depends on how their history played out and what areas they focused development in. I personally think the species that hunt and have wars like us humans will be the most advanced. Most of our human technology has come from and advanced due to warfare and I think it would be the same for aliens. Like said before Hawking warns about contacting Aliens, he tends to think its a bad thing .... so in Hawking's eyes we might have doomed ourselves! I think it all depends on who we meet, but I think if we meet the wrong species (and yes im sure the wrong kind is out there) then we might be in fact doomed.
Carl Sagan himself said it will most likely be in space for our universe's existence never to be found. If you look at it mathematically chances are it wont be found .... though the universe it full of abundant life ... its too spread out for things to happen by accident.... two races have to be trying to meet each other in my opinion. It is like me sending a letter to any random part of France with no address or name to who I want it sent to and hoping it will wind up in Alizee's hands. There is "almost" a 100% chance that wont happen unless I put her name on it ... then the chances of it getting to her go obviously go up. Yeah that is the scary thing, voyager as of now is the only artifact of earth that has a great chance of out lasting us and perhaps lasting until the end of time. However I think humans will have left mother earth a long time before she dies, and I think we will take some "stuff" to remember her so maybe things on this rock can last in the cosmos as well.

[user472884]

Guy 1: "Well as Stephen Hawking said.... Aliens.... E=mc^2..... dark matter and energy.... universe..."
Guy 2: "IT'S TOOOOOO COMPLICATED TO UNDERSTAND! GOD DID IT! END OF STORY!"

Guys, I think I just discovered the origin of faith

[Plaz]

Apparently some girl discovered the universe's missing mass?