Alternate translations: JEAM, ACC, and JPVA

[aFrenchie]

I don't really like to try to translate Mylène Farmer's lyrics since she uses lots of wordplays and puns that are obviously impossible in English or other languages. Not only that, lots of her original lyrics are vague even for French people. As a result, it often just means nothing and you can wonder if she wouldn't be writing whatever passes in her head sometimes, leaving just nonsense stuff. Second result, lots of French will tell you that they are just stupid and dumb... I for one am still hesitating since I know very little of her lyrics but I would tend to wonder too .

Anyway, I just took a look at your translations and here are some tips:

J'en ai marre:
- "And soon, the crocuses": see my explanations for this line in the link in my previous post.

A Contre Courant:
- "Everything upside-down": I think the lyrics are "Tête à l'envers", not "Tout à l'envers"
- "From the lines of little things": original lyrics literally means: "Processions of fingers". Did you drop this for another metaphor in English?
- "Of times that bar us, times the seperate us,": isn't it that separate us?
- "Return to Earth": original lyrics is "Reviens sur terre". The "s" indicates it's imperative mode -> literally: "Come back on earth"
- After each "Mets-moi au courant" line, the next line starts with "Que je....": "que" leads to subjonctive. It means "Keep me informed so I imagine" (or "so I divine" or "so I consider", etc...). Maybe it's best in English with "can", like: "so I can imagine"? Don't know...
- "Rediscover meaning In the life" sounds weird. the original literally means: "Rediscovering the meaning of life"
- Some lines later, "Retrouver les sens" could either mean "Rediscover the meaning" or "the senses" or "directions"
- "And for the best": "pour de bon" means "for good"

J'ai pas vingt ans:
- "Rather a current of air": "Courant d'air" means "draught"
- I want more than an: "I attach,"....: "S'attacher (à quelqu'un)" means to become or grow fond of or attached to someone.
- your (6) point: I don't know the expression "have it in for" and it's probably the right translation. If it can help, my dictionary gives me this: "je l'attends au tournant [familier] (sens figuré), I'll get even with him/her"

[Azereus]

In J'en ai marre, why is the first line sometimes translated in "I have soft skin" but other times that line isn't even mentioned such as in the video where Alizee sings J'en ai marre in english.

[Cooney]

Originally Posted by aFrenchie

I don't really like to try to translate Mylène Farmer's lyrics since she uses lots of wordplays and puns that are obviously impossible in English or other languages. Not only that, lots of her original lyrics are vague even for French people. As a result, it often just means nothing and you can wonder if she wouldn't be writing whatever passes in her head sometimes, leaving just nonsense stuff. Second result, lots of French will tell you that they are just stupid and dumb... I for one am still hesitating since I know very little of her lyrics but I would tend to wonder too .

Anyway, I just took a look at your translations and here are some tips:

Thanks for the awesome suggestions and remarks aFrenchie! Some of these are really very helpful. Mylene is from Quebec, Canada, rather than France itself, isn't she? That could be one of the issues with the lyrics. I'll go through and respond to each one as best I can -

J'en ai marre:
- "And soon, the crocuses": see my explanations for this line in the link in my previous post.

Ah ha! Yeah, those cultural references are easy to miss for us :-) Going by the description in that other thread, it sounds to me like the line would probably come out "And in the meadows, those autumn crocuses." I use "those" instead of "the," because it hints towards the specific reference of the children's song. They aren't just any crocuses, they're the crocuses of the song.

A Contre Courant:
- "Everything upside-down": I think the lyrics are "Tête à l'envers", not "Tout à l'envers"

Indeed, the second time she uses the "upside down" line, it is "Tête à l'envers," or literally, "Head in inverse." The only expression we have for being upside down that involves the head, is "head over heels," but that has a very specific connotation (it indicates somebody is so in love, that they've lost their ability to reason). The closest I could come was "Everything upside-down," or possibly "I'm upside-down." Am I right in thinking that "Tête à l'envers" refers to the situation between the lovers, rather than one of the lovers themself?

- "From the lines of little things": original lyrics literally means: "Processions of fingers". Did you drop this for another metaphor in English?

I tried to insert another metaphor, yes. It was a bit of a challenge, as I wasn't 100% sure that "processions of fingers" was actually a metaphor in French, as opposed to literally meaning she was walking her fingers along his body or something, but I took a chance with it. In English, "the little things" is frequently used to refer to parts of love that are hard to describe - all the various things about a person that make you love them - as well as referring to small actions that you do for a person because you love them.

- "Of times that bar us, times the seperate us,": isn't it that separate us?

Yes it is, I typed it wrong! I was moving too fast... d'oh!

- "Return to Earth": original lyrics is "Reviens sur terre". The "s" indicates it's imperative mode -> literally: "Come back on earth"

"Return" and "Come Back" both mean the same thing, actually, when used in this fashion - both are imperative. "Return" implies the pronoun "you," and is a bit softer, a little more suitable for love. "Come back!" is the sort of phrase one might use for a child that has run off, or in desperation, but "return to me" is much softer, and suggests a relationship.

- After each "Mets-moi au courant" line, the next line starts with "Que je....": "que" leads to subjonctive. It means "Keep me informed so I imagine" (or "so I divine" or "so I consider", etc...). Maybe it's best in English with "can", like: "so I can imagine"? Don't know...

Excellent, I need some help with my usages of "que." It seems to have an awful lot of meanings in French! "So i can..." is an good fit for all of them. I'll substitute it in.

- "Rediscover meaning In the life" sounds weird. the original literally means: "Rediscovering the meaning of life"

One could use "Rediscover the meaning of life" here, and it would work alright; especially if it was the end of the sentence. With the continuation of the sentence, however, describing the life she is talking about ("which I think passed by in boredom..."), it becomes possible, and even preferable, to use "the life." One could say "Rediscover the meaning of the life," which might be better.

Using "Rediscover the meaning" implies that there is a very specific meaning that must be found. Using "Rediscover meaning" implies that life currently has no meaning, and a meaning must be found. I'm not sure which one the original uses...

Which leads me to my final point here. In English (and possibly in French, I'm not sure), the phrase "The Meaning of Life" will immediately make people think of the question of "What is the meaning of life?" It is considered the ultimate question, for which there is no answer. I don't think that's what the song was trying to suggest, so I modified it in English to avoid the confusion with philosophical thought, and keep it about the lives of the lovers.

- Some lines later, "Retrouver les sens" could either mean "Rediscover the meaning" or "the senses" or "directions"

I had actually originally written it as "the sense," but I altered it to "the meaning" for greater clarity. A "sense of life" in somebody is probably the closest we have to the phrase "joie de vivre" without using the French phrase ourselves (which we do).

- "And for the best": "pour de bon" means "for good"

In English, the stand-alone phrase "for good" is the same as "forever." Is that what what the song means? I used "for the best" which implies that the results of an action are the best that can be hoped for. It's not perfect, but hopefully it fits.

J'ai pas vingt ans:
- "Rather a current of air": "Courant d'air" means "draught"

Ok, very good. "Draught" is actually a very unusual word in English - at least written. Most people would recognize it spoken, but can not pronounce it from the page (pronounced "Draft"). Its most common usage is to suggest a leak in a house that allows the wind in. For ease of comprehension, I'm guessing perhaps "breeze" is the usage desired.

- I want more than an: "I attach,"....: "S'attacher (à quelqu'un)" means to become or grow fond of or attached to someone.

I recognized the meaning, but was trying to maintain the wording (perhaps a bit too much). It might make it easier to understand if I turned it in to "I want more than an "I'm attached." To say one is "attached" implies the "to someone" in English. If you mean anything else, it needs to be specified at the time (I'm attached to the rope | I'm attached to the wall | Are you attached to the hook? - Yes, I'm attached.)

- your (6) point: I don't know the expression "have it in for" and it's probably the right translation. If it can help, my dictionary gives me this: "je l'attends au tournant [familier] (sens figuré), I'll get even with him/her"

"Have it in for" somebody does mean the same as "To want to get even with" somebody. It basically means that person has done something to you, and now you want to do something to them in return.

Thanks again for all the great help, it really clarified a bunch of things! I'm going to edit the original posts to insert some of your suggestions. I do have one question for you -

In J'en ai marre, does "bombes" reference anything specific in French? Is it slang for something, or literally just "bombs" as in explosives?

[Cooney]

My thanks for the kind words from all :-) I'm updating the original posts to include the valuable information aFrenchie is providing. I fully intend to continue doing these translations, and posting them each time I get a few done. Hope they turn out useful as well!

[aFrenchie]

Originally Posted by Cooney

Mylene is from Quebec, Canada, rather than France itself, isn't she? That could be one of the issues with the lyrics.

Yes she's born there, but her parents were French anyway (see in "Biography" here) so I think that her French kept good roots of French from France as well. Although, she was already 8 when they were back to France, but you adapt quickly at that age...

(crocuses)
I use "those" instead of "the," because it hints towards the specific reference of the children's song.

Better indeed.

Indeed, the second time she uses the "upside down" line, it is "Tête à l'envers,"

Oops you're right, she says both actually.

Am I right in thinking that "Tête à l'envers" refers to the situation between the lovers, rather than one of the lovers themself?

My guess is that I don't know

"Return" and "Come Back" both mean the same thing, actually

Oops 2, I don't know why I first read "return" as a noun. They're both the same indeed.

In English, the stand-alone phrase "for good" is the same as "forever." Is that what what the song means?

Yes. I know some people may use "pour de bon" as "for real" as well but the real meaning is "for good".

Its most common usage is to suggest a leak in a house that allows the wind in. For ease of comprehension, I'm guessing perhaps "breeze" is the usage desired.

That's exactly the meaning of "courant d'air", but you'll have no possibility for a pun with "current" if you use draught or breeze

It might make it easier to understand if I turned it in to "I want more than an "I'm attached." To say one is "attached" implies the "to someone" in English. If you mean anything else, it needs to be specified at the time

In French too, so "Je m'attache" alone sounds weird in the original as well...

"Have it in for" somebody does mean the same as "To want to get even with" somebody. It basically means that person has done something to you, and now you want to do something to them in return.

That's it, exactly.


I forgot that line in ACC yesterday btw:
- "Of times that bar us,": "se barrer" means "partir" in slang. My dictionary says "to clear off"

Also, I just retrieved that page:
http://www.alizee-fanpage.com/page.p...content=lyrics
Maybe you could have a look at those other attempts

[garçoncanadien]

and you know Cooney, Mylène herself said that she derives great entertainment out of being vague. She enjoys being mysterious - that's why she writes vague French as well

[Cooney]

Originally Posted by garçoncanadien

and you know Cooney, Mylène herself said that she derives great entertainment out of being vague. She enjoys being mysterious - that's why she writes vague French as well

Haha, it shows! It doesn't help us poor saps trying to understand it across languages, but it's cool, so I forgive her

Originally Posted by aFrenchie

Yes. I know some people may use "pour de bon" as "for real" as well but the real meaning is "for good".

Ok, so it DOES mean a sort of "forever" (éternellement)? Didn't see that one coming. If that's the meaning, I'll look in to a good translation.

Originally Posted by aFrenchie

That's exactly the meaning of "courant d'air", but you'll have no possibility for a pun with "current" if you use draught or breeze

Ooh, interesting - very subtle. It kind of suggests that she sneaks in unexpected with her love, I like it. I'll change it to draught. If this were "A Contre Courant" I'd keep "current of air" to maintain the electrical reference, but as it is J'Ai Pas Vingt Ans, I'll make the switch.

Originally Posted by aFrenchie

I forgot that line in ACC yesterday btw:
- "Of times that bar us,": "se barrer" means "partir" in slang. My dictionary says "to clear off"

Actually, looking more closely, my dictionary has that as well. The meaning of "times that bar us" would be times that keep the two people apart from each other, but that lacks some of the force of that slang usage. How about "times that split us apart?" My dictionary provided "to split" as a part of the same slang usage as "to clear off."

I'm guessing this is the same usage of "barre" that we find in C'Est Trop Tard, where she she says "Je me barre!" It basically means she's leaving him, and ending their relationship? That would make more sense than what I had tenatively had there.

[aFrenchie]

Originally Posted by Cooney

Ok, so it DOES mean a sort of "forever" (éternellement)?

Yes.

If this were "A Contre Courant" I'd keep "current of air" to maintain the electrical reference, but as it is J'Ai Pas Vingt Ans, I'll make the switch.

Oops you're right. I thought it was ACC...

How about "times that split us apart?" My dictionary provided "to split" as a part of the same slang usage as "to clear off."

In the lyrics link in my previous post, they use "Of the time that flies". I think it's good too.

I'm guessing this is the same usage of "barre" that we find in C'Est Trop Tard, where she she says "Je me barre!" It basically means she's leaving him

Yes it's the same. But it doesn't necessarily imply that you're leaving someone. Basically, it just means that you're going away.

[Cooney]

Originally Posted by Azereus

In J'en ai marre, why is the first line sometimes translated in "I have soft skin" but other times that line isn't even mentioned such as in the video where Alizee sings J'en ai marre in english.

Anything purporting to be an actual translation, from French to English, should include that line. "J'ai la peau douce" is a very straight-forward line, and even comes out, word by word, to "I have the skin soft."

The English version of the song, I'm Fed Up, is not a translation. Rather, it is a re-write with different words, put to the same music. It maintains some of the same ideas at times, but is completely different at others. Almost none of the first verse matches...

ENGLISH
Bubbles and water
Legs up for hours
My goldfish is un-
der me
To bathe for hours
Makes my mouth water
I'm foamelly ec-
static

The only things that carry over are that she's bathing, there's a fish involved, and it's got bubbles. This actually is a closer match than some other songs, where the lyrics are totally unrelated between the languages, or at times, even completely opposite in meaning.

[Cooney]

Originally Posted by aFrenchie

Yes.

Ok, change made!

Originally Posted by aFrenchie

In the lyrics link in my previous post, they use "Of the time that flies". I think it's good too.

Hmmm. That feels to me like it loses a little bit of the threat (la menace) she sings about. It seems like she would feel more threatened by times that force them apart, than she would by time that goes quickly.

Originally Posted by aFrenchie

Yes it's the same. But it doesn't necessarily imply that you're leaving someone. Basically, it just means that you're going away.

Thanks, good to know!