operation digg (v.2)

[brad]

see .. this could be a podcast .. lol

[HibyPrime]

Originally Posted by Snatcher42

"People"? Hilby, Mylene designed the outfit. And Laurent filmed it for the official vid. Yes, it was carefully designed. It was designed not to be shown on TV from certain angles. Yes, the live audience sees it, but that's a big difference from it being printed in the media.

As I said, the pics and vids taken where you can actually see up the skirt were unauthorized, and they even tried to take legal action against them. Alizée even commented that they weren't supposed to happen.

The whole point of the dress and the dance (also choreographed by Mylene, I might add) is to suggest that you should be able to see something, but you never actually do.

Mylene and Laurent are the only ones running the show, sure. Obviously I do not have any proof, but common sence tells me that mylene (Edit: Mylene didn't even design the dress, according to RMJ) had many consultants when designing the dress aswell as choreographing the dance. Theres no way laurent shot the entire video, look at the making of l'alize and JEAM, there are easily 20 people working there.

Taking legal action like that, aswell as alizee saying it wasn't supposed to happen is basically portraying an image without letting people know you are purposely portraying that image. I am a graphic designer, albeit not much experience, but this is what I study, and live.

It's Hiby, btw.

[Ben]

Originally Posted by RMJ

Hmm, well, Snatcher has point there (about JEAM and ACC). But still JEAM was bit too much.

I think if they had just used the long pants from the start then it would have been fine. Perfect actually. I don't think ACC is an appropriate first single. You need something faster and more up tempo. Like I said, grab attention and then go for depth.

So yeah, I don't want to sound like I have all the magic answers on how Alizée's career should have been. But yeah, JEAM followed by JPVA was the mistake, imo. It should have been JEAM (trousers) followed by ACC, then maybe JPVA...

[HibyPrime]

Originally Posted by Snatcher42

The entire purpose of JPVA was to be titillating, and what you don't see is always more titillating than what you do. There's actually an entire school of fashion design philopshy behind this. The idea is that the sexiest cloths aren't necessarily the most revealing, they're the ones that look like they could give you a peak of something at any moment, but never do. Mylene and Laurent combined a short dress with specifically chosen shots to maximize this effect.

That same effect is still there, even with the upskirts. The fact that you can not see it for more than a few seconds, and you only see a very, very little bit gives that effect. Not to mention the underwear.

The way they made the singles was to generate the most profit:

JEAM - controversial, but not over the top controversy that dies as fast as it comes, brings in lots of viewers
JPVA - Even more controversial, pictures and videos that apparently are not supposed to be taken, meant to die as fast as it came, keeps viewers hooked until next single
ACC - perfectly polished image with deep lyrics to give a good reception for a possible 3rd album.

[Ben]

Originally Posted by HibyPrime

(Edit: Mylene didn't even design the dress, according to RMJ)

Courrèges sells a similar dress now, but Mylene had one like it long before. It's definitely a custom design by her.

Originally Posted by HibyPrime

Theres no way laurent shot the entire video, look at the making of l'alize and JEAM, there are easily 20 people working there.

Of course he had a crew, but in the end the director pics the shots. He works with the editor to make sure exactly what he wants - and only what he wants - is in there (I'm a filmmaker myself, btw).

Originally Posted by HibyPrime

Taking legal action like that, aswell as alizee saying it wasn't supposed to happen is basically portraying an image without letting people know you are purposely portraying that image. I am a graphic designer, albeit not much experience, but this is what I study, and live.

Yeah, that's possible. But here's the thing that makes me think otherwise. All the upskirt vids and pics are from one performance (Tour de France). I know RMJ said there are others, but I really can't recall them myself, so I'm waiting to hear back from him re: that.

But yeah, as far as I'm aware it only happened that one time. It was an accident that they let those shots slip through. The dozens of other performances went off as planned, where you don't actually get to see that on TV.

[riva2model64]

Originally Posted by HibyPrime

JPVA - Even more controversial, pictures and videos that apparently are not supposed to be taken, meant to die as fast as it came, keeps viewers hooked until next single

like hot silver?

[RMJ]

Originally Posted by Snatcher42

Yeah? Which? I really have not seen others.

And yes, I know in person people must have seen it, I said as much. But how things are edited for TV and the press is very important in creating an image. As I said, the pics were you can actually see her underwear are from unauthorized angles, not because the dress was any different (the riding up I mentioned applies for the other part of the song, where she spins).

By unauthorized, do you mean angles used in TV but that differs from the angles in her JPVA music video ? Or angles like the one non-official video that is shown way too much on the net... show good peak up in there...

And if I must, I can show screen captures for you. But I rather not. When once told to Eka that she wore white pants with pink dress (and pissed him off because I didn't told in where performance and in what scene and never showed captures of it), I was pretty serious... And her black pants shows up in several peformance.

Originally Posted by Snatcher42

RMJ, don't you remember the interview where Alizée said she flashes the audience at the end of JPVA en concert a bit to make fun of the photographers who took the unintended upskirts? And as I also said, Alizée even tried to sue over these pictures.

Wasn't it fan review ? Atleast someone on AF show the concert and told about it.

Originally Posted by Snatcher42

The entire purpose of JPVA was to be titillating, and what you don't see is always more titillating than what you do. There's actually an entire school of fashion design philopshy behind this. The idea is that the sexiest cloths aren't necessarily the most revealing, they're the ones that look like they could give you a peak of something at any moment, but never do. Mylene and Laurent combined a short dress with specifically chosen shots to maximize this effect.

Yes, I understand this but I believe Mylène went bit too far. Or maybe we (and press) went too far. Because those upskirst can be find only if you really look for them. Or if you happen to go through every video frame by frame, like I have done with pretty much every video of her. I didn't know of those if I didn't happen to see the during that. It kinda is accidental but then again, it isn't. They aren't that visible in normal performance on TV and that prolly was Mylène's purpose, to tease us. But I'm pretty sure she was aware of that the upskirts would happen. She's a clever woman.

Surely it was made way too big deal anyways. You could even say that the pants are part of the outfit. And their showing up is natural thing. Not something to be surprised. You are allowed to see them but just for a fraction of second to prevent your mind wander too far...

[Ben]

Originally Posted by HibyPrime

JEAM - controversial, but not over the top controversy that dies as fast as it comes, brings in lots of viewers
JPVA - Even more controversial, pictures and videos that apparently are not supposed to be taken, meant to die as fast as it came, keeps viewers hooked until next single
ACC - perfectly polished image with deep lyrics to give a good reception for a possible 3rd album.

Yeah, that was definitely the intention... problem was too many people gave up on Alizée when they saw JPVA, making it and ACC comparative flops.

Originally Posted by HibyPrime

It's Hiby, btw.

Sorry! Damn eyes.

[DJ_Greg]

ACC is one of my favorite Alizée songs, but it's not a great first single. I actually think the order of singles, concluding with the unofficial live Amelie m'a dit, was a great choice for release order.

I feel like maybe the people who don't like JEAM as a single, or as a first single, or as a pants-less single, are clinging to the illusion of Alizée as "pure" or "innocent," or something like that. The fact is, she never was. I mean, come on...the girl started her career singing about being a lolita. She was never above using her sexual appeal to draw attention; it was always there, from the first moment she got played on the radio.

JEAM was an excellent choice as a first single because it was similar enough to the lolita image of her first album. You want something catchy and familiar to remind fans of your previous success. JPVA began the transition by keeping the "tease" factor but also adding guitar as a prominent instrument. Then ACC comes along...no excess of skin, no silly dance choreography...just Alizée and the camera, singing a pop-rock song. Starting with ACC would have been abrupt...maybe even too abrupt.

For Alizée to refine her image, that order of singles was almost necessary. I think it was a brilliant move.

[RMJ]

Originally Posted by Snatcher42

Courrèges sells a similar dress now, but Mylene had one like it long before. It's definitely a custom design by her.

Do you have photos ? Because I know that she had similar skirt but not the same kind. They have significant differences what I have seen. And the Mylène's dress was very simple. Tho, I don't have that much Mylène photos...

And Courrèges doesn't sell them anymore, I think. They were sold back in 2003, 2004. At the same time with JPVA and Alizée wearing one. Tho... That we can confirm by walking into the Courrèges boutique if you are up for it. Just wait for me first.