Une Enfant Du Siecle Like/Dislike Poll

[Scruffydog777]

Originally Posted by DrSmith

Didn't you just say something about "tap dancing around the subject"? And now you're doing it.

I'm not talking on behalf of severianb or Deepwaters. I'm talking about you constantly saying Alizée's past two albums "aren't good" as if it's an objective truth—and trying to prove it based on sales and popularity. It's not—and you can't.

Whether or not the music is good is solely a matter of taste.

At least I'm willing to say I could be wrong. I really don't believe I'm wrong, but I'm only human and know there's a chance I could be mistaken. Are you willing to say you may be mistaken?

[DrSmith]

Originally Posted by Scruffydog777

Bottom line is except for the limited amount of people in these forums, I haven't heard any one of significance say that this a good album in any kind of way.

This is a grand example of your flawed way of thinking. Are you really telling me that if "anyone of significance say[s] that this is a good album" then your opinion can be swayed? You must have no concept of fact versus opinion, or subjective versus objective.

If all you need is someone of signficance to tell you that Une enfant du siècle is good, then consider yourself Trumped.

[Scruffydog777]

Originally Posted by DrSmith

This is a grand example of your flawed way of thinking. Are you really telling me that if "anyone of significance say[s] this is a good album" then your opinion can be swayed? You must have not concept of fact versus opinion, or subjective versus objective.

It wont change the fact that I don't really care for the album. If "many" people said it was good, if it sold well, or if it won some type of prize for let's say it's artistic merit, then I would deduce that it is a good album, albeit one not to my liking.

.....and as far as tap dancing, you never did answer my question.

also I found your first sentence belittling, but that's okay for anyone on your side of the fence to do it.

and take for example your using Donald Trump. He is a person of significance. Why? Because to get where he is today probably required him to be a shrewd judge of character and material not to mention numerous other things. So if just this one man said the album was good, it would make me far more likey to believe it is a good album, but once again, one still not to my liking.

EDIT:

Originally Posted by Karlalizee

soooo we are no longer talking about the dress?

Please feel free to talk about the dress. I'm curious to get a woman's opinion about the dress if you haven't already expressed it. Is this the type of dress that a teenage girl might normally wear any day or did it look more like a maternity dress to you?

[DrSmith]

What makes an album "good" other than being to your liking? I don't see how you could judge it in any way that isn't opinion based.

[Deepwaters]

Originally Posted by Scruffydog777

This is a very clever way of tap dancing around the subject. You aren't willing to come out and say that most of the people in France who heard her album are too ignorant to realize it might be good, but you're readily willing to imply it. So are you or are you not saying these people in France are ignorant, or will you do some more tap dancing?

Most French people, like most people everywhere, are ignorant. That however has nothing to do with why UEDS wasn't popular. Ignorance is a state of not knowing facts. That UEDS is a good album (or a bad one) is not a fact. One cannot be "ignorant" of that in either direction.

In any case, I am under no obligation to like or dislike something on the basis of popular vote. Art is not a democracy, it's anarchy, and I, like everyone else, am a law unto myself.

Bottom line is except for the limited amount of people in these forums, I haven't heard any one of significance say that this a good album in any kind of way.

"Significance" is also a subjective judgment on your part. And again, any such assertion by anyone, significant or otherwise, is irrelevant. The quality of an album (or any other work of art) is a subjective judgment, not a fact. Assertions about it are neither true nor false. No evidence can exist in support of them, and any evidence offered in support of them is always false. Every assertion you have ever made trying to prove that UEDS is bad is false. Every assertion you or anyone else will ever make trying to prove that UEDS is bad (or good) is false. Every assertion ever made by anyone throughout all time trying to prove that any work of art ever created is good or bad is false.

Clear now?

Another opinion. Could be wrong. Could be right, but like I said, all it is, is an opinion.

When we're talking about works of art, "could be right, could be wrong" is also false. Such assertions are neither right nor wrong, always.l

[severianb]

Originally Posted by Scruffydog777

.... French media labled this album a flop.

They didn't "label" it a flop, it WAS a flop. That is a fact. ( Unless you compare it to most electo albums, then it was a success, but I digress)

Do you think that's something they do lightly? There was no tour, no concerts. There are many awards presented by the music industry for all different types of music, not just main stream music. They often recognize artistic merit by non-mainstream artists. Did UEDS win anything? Are you trying to say the French media doesn't know what they are doing? Are you trying to say the French music establishment is too stupid to recognize artistic merit? Could it be that the album just wasn't that good?

As someone else in this thread already pointed out, I remember reading more than one UEDS review that praised it. As for "artistic merit"... I could give a rats ass. What matters to me is what I like. And I like UEDS. I also thought Beavis and Butthead was sheer genius. I think my opinion is awesome.

I realize you'r just saying " I believe Alizee is not suited to electro.........." to use as an example here and you probably don't believe that or maybe you do. But I just want to state that I don't think electro was necessarily a bad direction for her to go in. I think it was mainly a very poor choice of bands (CM) for her to hook up with and a concept album based on the life of Edie Sedgwick was also a wrong choice. She should have looked for more of a variety of electro music.

There can be very little argument, *sales-wise* that it was a poor decision. As others have pointed out, that means *nothing* artistically.

In essence what you are saying here is millions of people in France are ignorant. You're saying that these people have been imprinted by the Lolita and now they can't recognize a good song when they hear one.

YES! YES! YES! You get me.. You really get me! Most people are ignorant morons about most things. Music is no exception. I, myself am a ignorant moron about many things. This is all my opinon of course.

Originally Posted by Scruffydog777

Well isn't this comment belittling "To me and others its pretty "obvious" that much of the French public thinks of her as the "Lolita" or a Mylene puppet and won't accept her as anything else, no matter how good her work is." and didn't Deepwaters belittle the people of France by "implying" they might be ignorant.
Oh but in these cases, it's okay becuase it's in support of what you believe.

Yeah, it probably is belittling. Whatever. It's my OPINION, and I stated such. I never said it was FACT.

It is also my OPINION that Gourmandises and MCE music and the image associated with it is KIDS stuff, and Lilly shouldn't go back to it. She is worthy of so much more. Let talentless dolls like Britney Spears rehash former glory.... that's beneath Alizee.

[Euphoria]

I don't think anyone is trying to say she should go back to her former style, but that she should create her own style that really suits her. In all honestly, I don't see this ever happening. Alizee seems very influenced and whoever/whatever she admires at the time, is the style she goes for. When she met Jeremy, she did the whole punk rocker thing. Psychedelices reminds me of that Madonna album (the name escapes me) where she does a bunch of different styles. Then I guess she really admired CM and their style and wanted to go for that.


I liked a few songs on the album, but overall, I found it very boring. Even when I'm wanting to relax, I can barely listen to it, it's too simple. I guess thats the sound they were going for though; electronic, but sort of 1984 electronic with one synth and some percussion. Not really my cup of tea. I like more intricate compositions.

[FanDeAliFee]

Originally Posted by Scruffydog777

There are many awards presented by the music industry for all different types of music, not just main stream music. They often recognize artistic merit by non-mainstream artists. Did UEDS win anything? Are you trying to say the French media doesn't know what they are doing? Are you trying to say the French music establishment is too stupid to recognize artistic merit?

Please do remember Bigdan's post last June titled Alizée on France-Inter Radio, which wrote in part:<blockquote><i>Last night, Alizée was in "sous les étoiles exactement", on France-Inter. I was really surprised and totally happy that she did this show, cause it's a rather long interview and the choice of the producer are only question of quality. France Inter is like the BBC, a public service radio , and use to support only singers they believed in, regardless of the top50.</i></blockquote>

[User22]

Originally Posted by severianb

They didn't "label" it a flop, it WAS a flop. That is a fact.

...just because some show said it was a flop and the album didn't sell many copies doesn't mean it is FACT that the album IS/WAS/ALWAYS WILL BE a flop. Saying something is a flop is all opinion. It's just like me saying the album was a huge success, it's all opinion.

So it is not fact that the album is a flop. But I agree that a good amount of people in France and abroad believe the album was a flop, but again, them thinking it was a flop is their opinion.

QUESTION: Does anyone know how many UEDS albums were made/manufactured?

[lefty12357]

Originally Posted by Euphoria

I don't think anyone is trying to say she should go back to her former style, but that she should create her own style that really suits her. In all honestly, I don't see this ever happening. Alizee seems very influenced and whoever/whatever she admires at the time, is the style she goes for. When she met Jeremy, she did the whole punk rocker thing. Psychedelices reminds me of that Madonna album (the name escapes me) where she does a bunch of different styles. Then I guess she really admired CM and their style and wanted to go for that.


I liked a few songs on the album, but overall, I found it very boring. Even when I'm wanting to relax, I can barely listen to it, it's too simple. I guess thats the sound they were going for though; electronic, but sort of 1984 electronic with one synth and some percussion. Not really my cup of tea. I like more intricate compositions.

The only complaint I had with UEDS is the minimalist approach to the electro arrangements. The reason the album still works for me is that I like the songs themselves and I like the melodies. I personally am a big fan of progressive music, which typically has complexity in composition as well as arrangements that require the musicians to really put forth noteworthy performances. Of course by its very nature, pop music usually does not get too complicated, as it would probably not appeal to the masses. It’s meant to be more fun, and so therefore less challenging and thoughtful.

But if Alizée puts out another album, regardless of genre, I’d like to see the musicians and writers really step it up. There are ways to compose and produce music that can appeal to the masses, and yet contain some complexity in the compositions and performances to be of interest to the rest of us.