Go Back   Alizée America Forum > Alizée > Alizée News

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #101  
Old 12-13-2017, 11:28 AM
Scruffydog777's Avatar
Scruffydog777 Scruffydog777 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Boston
Age: 70
Posts: 8,109
Scruffydog777 will become famous soon enough
Default

It's been discussed many times. Back when she had her first album Psych and she had a concert in Moscow, I came out with a very critical post of her which I referred as the Stalingrad post. I warned of trouble if changes weren't made. Some were made, but not meaningful changes; not changes that would make a significant difference and that's what she needed. Four albums later and she's still making the same mistakes.

As far as the split, Alizée's a very private person and never really discussed it but I believe she did she say they parted on good terms.

But one of the rumors going around back then was that when Jeremy came into the picture, he her told for one, she should have been making much more money and also that many of the songs she was singing had a much deeper sexual meaning than Alizee was aware of.

Now Mylene apparently uses sex to sell. She even designed her own sex toy and wrote a song about it and Mylene's sexy reputation was no secret to Alizee or her family. I believe MF/LB got to okay from Alizee's parents to let her read the book 'Lolita'. So they knew up front, sex, and sexiness was going to be a part of what she was doing. But some people feel the Freudian terms of some of her songs went deeper than the obvious sexiness.

I'll give you a couple of examples of lines from J'en ai marre that were supposedly written in Freudian terms;

Des extrêmistes à deux balles,
Extremists with 2 bullets. How many extremists only have 2 bullets?

Je brule à l'ombre des bombes
I live in the shadow of bombs
What kind of bombs? Is she talking about a war between countries, or something again, of a Freudian nature?

These 2 lines, though I think are Freudian in nature, seem nothing earth shattering, but it shows there was more to these lyrics than meets the eyes and I'm not going any further than this here. You might want to read some of Homer's interpretations in this forum of the different songs.

So like I said, allegedly Jeremy told her of 'deeper' meanings of those lyrics that were already sexy and rumor and I stress rumor is it bothered her and was the other reason she left.

Another 'rumor' I heard is the reason she waited until 2007 to put out another album was she was still under contract with MF/LB to do another album and the only way to get out of it was to wait for it to run out in 3 years. Of course she had the baby not long after leaving which is probably the best reason for the delay until 2007.

While we are on this story line, I might as well take it a little further. It is again rumored that one of the songs on this first album was about Mylene Farmer. The name of the song is Idealizer. There were plenty of interpretations out there and looking at these and looking at the lyrics, I wasn't happy with them. I didn't think they did a good job at all. Now I want to point out I know little French. I just had 2 years in high school so many years ago. That has helped me in following Alizee and I've picked up some more in these 10 years. Still, when the show SAGA came out and Chritophe Willem sang 'Idealizer', I wanted to make a separate video as I did for many segments of the show and I wanted to add 'accurate' subtitles, so I spent a lot of time finding the meanings of those lyrics and if you listen to those lyrics, you can see how many people thought at the time that Mylene must've been offended by them. Keep in mind too, that in some of those lines where a male pronoun was used such as he or him,I feel they were really talking about a woman; "he (she) is no longer there", and to him (her) asked.......one last kiss". I felt putting them in would make it too obvious and then I didn't want to do that.
The song writer came out and said it was written about a trouble woman he knew, but to many, I guess those lyrics hit to close in a certain direction.

Alizee sent the first cd from the album to MF/LB and I believe they never replied.

I think they are on good terms though. Idealizer was not written by Alizee and if it was written about Mylene, I strongly doubt if Alizee knew it.


Last edited by Scruffydog777; 12-13-2017 at 11:50 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #102  
Old 12-13-2017, 12:30 PM
CleverCowboy's Avatar
CleverCowboy CleverCowboy is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Ohio
Posts: 2,055
CleverCowboy is on a distinguished road
Default

Thanks for the much informative post. I appreciate it very much. I will write more on this later, but just got done listening to Psychédélices again, as it has been a while. I really like the song Décollage. It's a catchy, "hip-hop" dance song. Her voice sounds more like a chipmunk in that song than anything, but it's different and kind of cool. My oldest son was 22 in 2007, and him and his friends was really into electronic dance and going to clubs to dance and watch the DJs. If the concept of the entire album was more towards dance music, she might have had a chance in the US at that time. She had a great look that would appeal to the target audience. Just a thought.

Last edited by CleverCowboy; 12-13-2017 at 01:02 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #103  
Old 12-13-2017, 07:06 PM
Scruffydog777's Avatar
Scruffydog777 Scruffydog777 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Boston
Age: 70
Posts: 8,109
Scruffydog777 will become famous soon enough
Default

Just keep in mind a lot of what I say are opinions, a lot of which is based on rumors and what others, who may not themselves know a hill of beans, have said, but after following her for a while, you get a sense of what is believable and what isn't. I suggest you search out other posts on the subject and form you own opinions.
Reply With Quote
  #104  
Old 12-13-2017, 07:28 PM
CleverCowboy's Avatar
CleverCowboy CleverCowboy is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Ohio
Posts: 2,055
CleverCowboy is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scruffydog777 View Post
Just keep in mind a lot of what I say are opinions, a lot of which is based on rumors and what others, who may not themselves know a hill of beans, have said, but after following her for a while, you get a sense of what is believable and what isn't. I suggest you search out other posts on the subject and form you own opinions.
I have been trying to read a couple of threads a day, but there are over 100 pages, so it might take some time. You have been on this site for a very long time and probably have some of the most informed opinions, in my opinion!
Reply With Quote
  #105  
Old 12-14-2017, 05:42 AM
Scruffydog777's Avatar
Scruffydog777 Scruffydog777 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Boston
Age: 70
Posts: 8,109
Scruffydog777 will become famous soon enough
Default

Well there have been several members who were fans for quite a while and were very knowledgeable and had opinions very different from my own but are no longer active, so take everything I say with a grain of salt. I feel very strongly about my opinions but at the same time I realize they could be very wrong.
Reply With Quote
  #106  
Old 12-14-2017, 08:33 AM
CleverCowboy's Avatar
CleverCowboy CleverCowboy is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Ohio
Posts: 2,055
CleverCowboy is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scruffydog777 View Post
It's been discussed many times. Back when she had her first album Psych and she had a concert in Moscow, I came out with a very critical post of her which I referred as the Stalingrad post. I warned of trouble if changes weren't made. Some were made, but not meaningful changes; not changes that would make a significant difference and that's what she needed. Four albums later and she's still making the same mistakes.
Just curious what mistakes you felt she made, and what changes you feel were needed?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Scruffydog777 View Post
But one of the rumors going around back then was that when Jeremy came into the picture, he her told for one, she should have been making much more money and also that many of the songs she was singing had a much deeper sexual meaning than Alizee was aware of.
I think if I was her husband and my wife was participating in things that portrayed her in a way that does not fit a married woman, AND she was naive about them, then I think it would be an issue for me too. But this scenario makes two assumptions. For one, they were married before he realized it, or waited until they were married to bring it up. Jeremy knew going in that he was marrying the most desirable woman on earth, and she was sexy, and she was sexy as part of her profession. Any issues should have been brought up beforehand, and if they were, the marriage might not have happened. Second assumption is that Alizee was naive about such things. While there is being naturally naive about a lot of things being a teenager, my feeling is she knew a little more than what she was willing to admit in front of her family. Just my opinion and it could be tarnished by my cynicism.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Scruffydog777 View Post
Now Mylene apparently uses sex to sell. She even designed her own sex toy and wrote a song about it and Mylene's sexy reputation was no secret to Alizee or her family. I believe MF/LB got to okay from Alizee's parents to let her read the book 'Lolita'. So they knew up front, sex, and sexiness was going to be a part of what she was doing. But some people feel the Freudian terms of some of her songs went deeper than the obvious sexiness.
I did a little research and found that Laurent Boutonnat helped Mylene get her career off the ground by casting her as a Lolita figure in 1984 with the song Maman à tort. They both were 23 at the time. Laurent was quite provocative as a producer, apparently, making his first film at the age of 17 that was rated for 18+ viewers. In the US, he would be called a pornographer - in France, probably an "artist".

It's curious that Mylene was also shy and private when she was young, which just added to the mystery of her. Fast forward 16 years and you have Alizee, again portrayed as a Lolita figure by now the MF/LM team. Sounds like LM wanted to see if he could do it again, but this time with Mylene writing the songs. All they needed was somebody to present their fantasies in a convincing manner, and boy did they find the right girl!

I know Europe is more liberal about sex than the US, especially the heartland, but it still is a little baffling about the lack of protective instinct in Alizee's parents knowing what she will be getting into at the age of 16. Even though I have no relation to Alizee, I get pissed off at any lewd comments directed at her on her YouTube videos.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Scruffydog777 View Post
These 2 lines, though I think are Freudian in nature, seem nothing earth shattering, but it shows there was more to these lyrics than meets the eyes and I'm not going any further than this here. You might want to read some of Homer's interpretations in this forum of the different songs.

So like I said, allegedly Jeremy told her of 'deeper' meanings of those lyrics that were already sexy and rumor and I stress rumor is it bothered her and was the other reason she left.
I looked up Homer's interpretations last night and read them. Certainly there is more than meets the eye on these lyrics, especially on their own not making much sense. Maybe something was meant subliminally, or maybe this is what happens when you write songs high.

The more I learn about MF/LM, the more I dislike them. I feel they were out to exploit a young girl for the sake of their "project".

Alizee, like nearly all people, change the moment they bring a baby into this world. To think she no longer wanted to have ties with MF/LM after she became a mother makes perfect sense to me.
Reply With Quote
  #107  
Old 12-15-2017, 03:26 AM
Scruffydog777's Avatar
Scruffydog777 Scruffydog777 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Boston
Age: 70
Posts: 8,109
Scruffydog777 will become famous soon enough
Default

We had a member here by the name of Corsaire who was Canada and he was bilingual speaking both English and French. He was probably about the same age of you. He seemed to think that every song written by MF/LB had a sexual meaning to it. I find that hard to believe, but when you're speaking in Freudian terms, anything and just about everything can have sexual meanings in it or to it. He proposed to me that he wanted to discuss in the forum the deeper sexual meanings in these songs. I ran it by the other mods (back when I was a mod) and they shot it down.

I'm playing catch up after getting back from vacation. I'll have some more thoughts on these and other subjects when I get the time which might not be until my days off around the beginning of the week.

Last edited by Scruffydog777; 12-15-2017 at 03:29 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #108  
Old 12-15-2017, 08:07 AM
CleverCowboy's Avatar
CleverCowboy CleverCowboy is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Ohio
Posts: 2,055
CleverCowboy is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scruffydog777 View Post
I'm playing catch up after getting back from vacation. I'll have some more thoughts on these and other subjects when I get the time which might not be until my days off around the beginning of the week.
Not a problem. Looking forward to it.

It probably won't surprise you that I do a lot of analysis on a professional basis along with personal. I am very detailed, and question a lot. I have a tendency to over-analyze as well, especially on something that I enjoy, like Alizee.
Reply With Quote
  #109  
Old 12-16-2017, 01:21 PM
CleverCowboy's Avatar
CleverCowboy CleverCowboy is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Ohio
Posts: 2,055
CleverCowboy is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scruffydog777 View Post
We had a member here by the name of Corsaire who was Canada and he was bilingual speaking both English and French. He was probably about the same age of you. He seemed to think that every song written by MF/LB had a sexual meaning to it. I find that hard to believe, but when you're speaking in Freudian terms, anything and just about everything can have sexual meanings in it or to it. He proposed to me that he wanted to discuss in the forum the deeper sexual meanings in these songs. I ran it by the other mods (back when I was a mod) and they shot it down.
.
I have a little bit of time today to respond to this and give my thoughts on what I think was Alizee's mistakes. Still looking forward to yours.

I ran across some of Corsaire's posts. I happen to not agree with him on this. I think somebody that reads sexual meanings into everything probably has issues themselves. I think Freud was a bit of a quack along with being brilliant in some areas. I just don't buy everything he believed.

Moving on now...

I don't want to sound harsh, but Alizee's singing comeback was a massive Fail. Three years of being a recluse didn't help at all, of course. There are some old threads on this site where some of the posts were very critical of her for not communicating with her fans, and they were getting angry. People just moved on and found new artists to listen to.

But I believe her Fail was the lack of rebranding herself. Psychédélices was not a bad album - in fact it was quite good. But who was the target audience? The album seemed to have something for every age group, and crossed music genres. I remember buying albums from a new group when I was younger because I liked a song I heard on the radio, and how disappointed I was when all the other songs on the album were completely different. I certainly would not buy an album now because I liked only one song on it, let alone go see them in concert.

Her fan base was mainly people around her age and younger. She was 24 when Psychédélices was released. She was still insanely beautiful and had a new hip haircut. The album was a kick in the shin to her fans in that it didn't target them, and seemed to cater to an older audience, except for a few songs. She was about the same age as Madonna, her idol, when Madonna hit the airwaves, but didn't learn a thing from her. Madonna came on the scene and made music that was upbeat, fun and dance-able. Every girl in her age group and down wanted to be like her. Turn on the radio and Madonna was playing. Go to a club and Madonna was playing and the dance floor was full (I was clubbing back in those days so I can attest to this). As the years went on, Madonna's music became more sophisticated, but her fans got older too and related to these changes, plus she kept adding more fans as she went along. I wonder if it ever occurred to Alizee to reach out to Madonna for some mentoring? I think Madonna might have helped her some.

If Alizee put together an album that was upbeat, fun, and dance-able, along the lines of the song Decollage, her music career might still be going strong today. She would have gotten maximum exposure for her music and might have made inroads in the US. In my opinion, most of her original fan base would have stayed, because after all, we all like to see Alizee dance with her songs. But no, she didn't do that, nor with her next album, or the album after that. Blonde was pretty good, but too late. And frankly, she had graffiti all over her beautiful body by that time and that turned a lot of people off.

So, multiple mistakes and it is such a shame. I still adore this woman and always will, and that is why it bothers me. I wanted to see her succeed.
Reply With Quote
  #110  
Old 12-21-2017, 11:09 AM
Scruffydog777's Avatar
Scruffydog777 Scruffydog777 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Boston
Age: 70
Posts: 8,109
Scruffydog777 will become famous soon enough
Default

I said I'd offer my opinions on why her various albums failed and I have finished up a post but seeing how it's of a critical nature, I will wait until after Christmas to post it. Maybe I'll start a thread specifically for it, or maybe I wont so once it's said, and others have offered their opinions, it will get lost in the shuffle.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:16 PM.