People getting fed up with the Paparazzi?

[MonteCristo]

Originally Posted by Neiteio

All I'll say is this: the paparazzi give us the only authentic view of the real Alizée.

Sometimes the view is ugly, like when Alizée flipped the bird, which utterly lacks class, regardless of circumstance. Sometimes the view violates privacy in a way that's dangerous, like when pictures show Alizée's kid.

But just as often, these candid photos shows us the real Alizée. When she's at signings and concerts, she's selling us an image, a facade. Anybody who is aware they're on camera is NOT going to behave the same way they would off-camera, as they would were they your friend. When she's living her life away from the limelight, that's when the real Alizée surfaces. The paparazzi provide us that view, despicable though their methods may sometimes be.

I've never quite cared about Alizée as a person, though, so what the paparazzi reveals about Alizée's true nature doesn't bother me. I like her for the product she sells -- a combination of music, image and stagecraft that makes you feel ALIVE. And I think it's ridiculous how some people make Alizée's personality out to be so heavenly when, quite frankly, we have no idea what she's really like.

Are you a man or woman?

[TheBarrett]

Originally Posted by MonteCristo

Are you a man or woman?

I'm taking a swing at my memory, but he is a man, correct me if i'm wrong. Trust me, half of Alizée's fans think with reasonable attitude and the rest work with crushing devotion, I would say there is a median class between the two. Those who think with reasonable attitude tend to think on the same level as her, and those who work with crushing devotion are often marked with the continuous phrasing of "I lvoe hre soooo much" and other mispelled words and sentences.

I think it's wiser to be those who think with reasonable attitude...I think Alizée might find the crushing devotees a little bit creepy.

[Chommpers]

Originally Posted by Neiteio

All I'll say is this: the paparazzi give us the only authentic view of the real Alizée.

Sometimes the view is ugly, like when Alizée flipped the bird, which utterly lacks class, regardless of circumstance. Sometimes the view violates privacy in a way that's dangerous, like when pictures show Alizée's kid.

But just as often, these candid photos shows us the real Alizée. When she's at signings and concerts, she's selling us an image, a facade. Anybody who is aware they're on camera is NOT going to behave the same way they would off-camera, as they would were they your friend. When she's living her life away from the limelight, that's when the real Alizée surfaces. The paparazzi provide us that view, despicable though their methods may sometimes be.

I've never quite cared about Alizée as a person, though, so what the paparazzi reveals about Alizée's true nature doesn't bother me. I like her for the product she sells -- a combination of music, image and stagecraft that makes you feel ALIVE. And I think it's ridiculous how some people make Alizée's personality out to be so heavenly when, quite frankly, we have no idea what she's really like.

I don't think you could say the pictures the paparazzi get are the "real" Alizée. Most the paparazzi only try and get the shocker pictures that will sell so they go out of their way to be annoying as possible so they can make that celeb look bad or even worse in some cases. NOBODY except the people who are actually around her know the real Alizée. The paparazzi will yell nasty things at celebs and just constantly follow them, every walking step snapping photos trying to anger them for that shocker photo. All that shows is that she is human and the paparazzi annoy her as much as the next celeb.

The other photos taken by the paparazzi from afar, what do they show? She carries stuff while Jeremy watches. She has a kid. Her being a normal person. There is no expression of personality when she doesn't know someone is taking pictures and no one else is around because she has no one to interact with except family and friends. I don't think Alizée is some kind of goddess and she must be the nicest person in the world, because I know she is human. I want to think she is a good person though and why shouldn't I? Just because some paparazzi gets her mad and she flashes him the finger. If that made someone have a terrible personality or makes them low class then the entire world would be nothing but assholes because everybody would get fed up with them sooner or later.

That's just how I see it anyway. My main point being nobody knows the real Alizée except the people who are around her everyday. This is not a attack more or less adding on to what you were saying even though I disagree that the finger flip should be taken as the real her or deteriorate your vision of her, she was just fed up with the paparazzi as everyone would be at some point if they were in the same position.

[The Cap]

Originally Posted by darth_tiberius

No I was quoting The Cap's post. Although it was said in a flippant way it had a point attached and that was what I was logically arguing against.

We have to look at the bigger picture from the whole of society's view. Not just on pleasing everyone. Even though the public may buy tabloids or crave celebrities at all times doesn't make it right.

You couldn't possibly have meant to issue a societal or ideological opinion based on MY post. There was no flippant attitude intended - it was a joke, guy. Paparazzi vs "pepperoni" - pizza toppings - "anchovies" ... c'mon, you can't tell me that it all went right over your head, did it ?

It's a JOKE, man ! No political statement or bad attitude intended or implied. No hidden point or agenda whatsoever.

Geez ... lighten up a little or you'll give yourself a stroke.

[darth_tiberius]

Originally Posted by The Cap

You couldn't possibly have meant to issue a societal or ideological opinion based on MY post. There was no flippant attitude intended - it was a joke, guy. Paparazzi vs "pepperoni" - pizza toppings - "anchovies" ... c'mon, you can't tell me that it all went right over your head, did it ?

It's a JOKE, man ! No political statement or bad attitude intended or implied. No hidden point or adgenda whatsoever.

Geez ... lighten up a little or you'll give yourself a stroke.

In my life, 13 strokes and a heart attack so far and still ticking!!!

[tbailey]

well whatever is the "real" Alizee i wish she would just show it

i have a lot more respect for people that don't create a facade or feel the need to protect/conceal their real identity

i have a feeling, in all honesty, that Alizee is not as nice and pristine as we make her out to be in real life

we can make excuses all we want to for her flipping her middle fingers but taken from a general impression i would think Alizee is a nice girl but probably has her darker more brash personality

and has a slice of French arrogance that we Americans don't appreciate too much

but anyway it doesn't really matter to me - i'll never get to meet the "real" Alizee

i think that's one of the reasons why Madonna was so popular - she didn't care about her public image too much. She was just herself

[Neiteio]

Originally Posted by MonteCristo

Are you a man or woman?

I'm a man... Why?

[TheBarrett]

Originally Posted by Neiteio

I'm a man... Why?

Because the majority of men who are fans of Alizée, is the latter of my post above, fanboys with crushing devotion.

Originally Posted by Chommpers

She carries stuff while Jeremy watches.

Lol, sounds exactly like my parents.

[Deepwaters]

It's possible for us to exaggerate our own ignorance. And it is possible to determine a great many things about people's personalities by how they treat others in public, and how other people react to them. Reading between the lines and drawing logical conclusions based on evidence are the only skills needed to conclude, for example, that Brad Pitt is a very intelligent and incisive man with a strong social conscience, that Britney Spears is immature and irresponsible, and that Madonna is an arrogant bitch-deva (but highly intelligent and talented). Or that Alizée is a very nice person overall, but not exempt from being human. That she pays a LOT of attention to her fans and takes advice from us. That she has had to learn how to be security-conscious and keep fans at a reasonable distance, distinguishing between them and friends, whereas her original inclination was and remains to make everyone a friend. There is plenty of evidence for these personality characteristics, and to say that we are unable to determine anything about her without being her friend is simply untrue.

The things you can't tell from this sort of observation are trivia about people's private lives: what they like to snack on, whether they put the lid down on the toilet, whether they sleep in a nightgown or their underwear or nothing, what TV shows they watch, what video games they play. But this sort of trivia really isn't a window on personality. And it is this sort of trivia, not genuine evidence of a person's personality, that papparazzi and other invasive media people reveal. What does it really tell us that Alizée shoots a finger at someone, when we don't know what provoked it? (Other than the fact that she is not so soap-mouthed that she will refuse ever to indulge in such a gesture.) What does it really tell us that on at least one occasion she loaded some musical equipment while her husband just watched, without knowing what he had been doing over the previous hour? (He might have already loaded a bunch of stuff and been taking a break while she finished the job. He might have injured himself and been unable to do any heavy lifting.) These petty little details are the things we can't know without knowing her personally (and rather intimately at that). But the type of person she is, broad-brush? Yes, we can know. And the petty details -- well, in all frankness, who has a right to know these things without another person's permission?

As for the Barrett's distinguishing between "reasonable attitude" and "crushing devotion," he's right, but we must be clear on what that means. A "reasonable attitude" does not necessarily exclude thinking, Wow, I like this person -- not just her music and performances, but what I can see of her as a person. I'd like to be her friend if it were possible. What it does mean, in my opinion, is that we make a distinction between friendship and fandom, and recognize that the latter is neither a substitute for the former nor a way to achieve it. You will not have Alizée, the person, in your life by going to every concert she puts on, or plastering your walls with posters of her, or buying every single recording she releases in as many different versions as are available, or trying to look like her. And if you do things like this, what you become is not a friend but a stalker, and her security puts you on a list, and the barriers between you and her get stronger. Plus you waste a lot of money.

As a point of fact, earlier in her comeback, I did NOT much like her performances, which seemed to me to lack a lot of the connection with the audience she had in the old days, and I offered her constructive criticism and what help I could from here, because I DO like her as a person and want her to succeed. Otherwise, I'd simply have moved on and not bothered.

[Neiteio]

I'm not sure the Brad Pitt/Britney Spears/Madonna analogy applies, Deepwaters, because it's painfully clear to me that unlike those three that on the whole are unapologetically themselves, Alizée is always playing it safe with every public appearance, giving the most simple and neutral responses to questions and not doing anything particularly out of the ordinary.

In other words, she's projecting a false version of herself, which one cannot possibly extrapolate to be the real deal. It does tell you that she's self-aware and trying to minimize the chances of jeopardizing her career, which in turn tells you she's risk-averse and used to having others control her. But really... That's it. Any personal and idealogical underpinnings are buried deep beneath a PR charade where we'll never see them.

As for recent paparazzi pics... I don't think much of the pics where she carries the stereo, but the flipping-the-bird pic tells us she has a gross lack of self-discipline. There's really no other way to describe it. But then, it doesn't matter. I say, like her for the product she sells and the way that product adds to your life. That's my philosophy.