France's music market is tough for French singers.

[Scruffydog777]

This article is from about a year ago. It was posted in FB by a gentleman I met in Europe. It speaks of how Shy'm cancelled shows from her previous tour to work on her next album and you have to assume that tour wasn't doing well. Then her new album wasn't doing well either.

I've heard it's tough for French female singers in the French market. Most young people look for the music of International artists like Beyonce, Rihanna, Lady Gaga, Katy Perry to name a few. On one of my trips to Paris, I had asked a young man who his favorite singers were and rattled off several names, not one of them French. Not enough for a scientific study, but like I said, I've heard on a few occasions it's tough for French singers because they are competing against the top artists in the world.

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[CleverCowboy]

They seem to rise fast and fall hard, don't they? I remember in LE 2012 and 2013, the first time the audience sees Shy'm come out, they are cheering. She was still the darling back then. It's not like French pop music is inferior in quality of music or talent. In fact, I find it superior in some ways. We do now live in a hip-hop world, and that is one genre French singers don't have much impact on.

It is by observation that I found that male singers have greater longevity at the top once they achieve popularity in France. Patrick Bruel, Christophe Mae and Pascal Obispo are good examples. They consistently put out number 1 albums over a long period of time.

[Bamagirl]

Many years ago, when I was a teenager, I had a friend who was from France and working as an au pair in England. She gave me several 45 rpm records (anyone remember those?) of pop songs from French singers--men and women. But in general, she preferred American (and sometimes British) pop music. I don't know if that was typical of young French people then, or if it is typical now. And I don't know if it was because of the language, or because the English speaking singers were just marketed better.

[Mr Coucou]

Originally Posted by Scruffydog777

ic of International artists like Beyonce, Rihanna, Lady Gaga, Katy Perry to name a few. On one of my trips to Paris, I had asked a young man who his favorite singers were and rattled off several names, not one of them French. Not enough for a scientific study, but like I said, I've heard on a few occasions it's tough for French singers because they are competing against the top artists in the world.
Attachment 2483

As I see it, the problem isn't the "French market"--- the problem is the fact that aside from Boudennat, French songwriters aren't the best. I think that French singers are starved for material-- and for some reason this impacts the women much more than the men.

Edit:

Originally Posted by CleverCowboy

It's not like French pop music is inferior in quality of music or talent. In fact, I find it superior in some ways.

I don't think that's true. Compare France with England. Over the course of modern music, British songwriters have cranked out mega-hit after mega-hit--- whereas French songwriters have done nothing of the sort.

Where is the French Beatles?
Where is the French Rolling Stones?
Where is the French Moody Blues?
Where is the French Led Zeppelin?
Where is the French Supertramp?

The list goes on and on...

Has there ever been a world-class French rock band??? Can you name a single one??? Just one???

Aside from Boudennat, French songwriters aren't anywhere near as good as British songwriters.

Do you see what I mean?

Edit:

Originally Posted by Bamagirl

.... But in general, she preferred American (and sometimes British) pop music. I don't know if that was typical of young French people then, or if it is typical now. And I don't know if it was because of the language, or because the English speaking singers were just marketed better.

There is only one possible explanation: French pop music isn't as good as British and American pop music. And that comes down to the songwriting itself and not marketing.

[eru777]

Agreed. French artists don't even come close to British artists of the past century.
There are some exceptions though.
Daft Punk, Jean Michel Jarre, Francoise Hardy.
Jean Michel Jarre was so popular in the 80s that he used whole cities as a backdrop for his live concerts. He was also the first Western artist to be invited to perform in China.

[CleverCowboy]

Originally Posted by Mr Coucou

I don't think that's true. Compare France with England. Over the course of modern music, British songwriters have cranked out mega-hit after mega-hit--- whereas French songwriters have done nothing of the sort.

Where is the French Beatles?
Where is the French Rolling Stones?
Where is the French Moody Blues?
Where is the French Led Zeppelin?
Where is the French Supertramp?

The list goes on and on...

Has there ever been a world-class French rock band??? Can you name a single one??? Just one???

Aside from Boudennat, French songwriters aren't anywhere near as good as British songwriters.

Do you see what I mean?

I know what you mean, when it comes to rock. The crowned champion of rock is definitely the UK. But I was talking about pop. I didn't specify the time frame, but I also meant in recent years, not of all time. Sorry about the confusion.

Popular music over the last decade or so, save a few songs here and there, has been pretty awful in my opinion. Maybe if I was 21 I would feel different because it would be the music I grew up with. But the bands you list, those were the ones I grew up with, and I can add dozens more to that list. Those days were incredible for rock, and I was spoiled.

I have spent some time listening to the songs of French artists, mainly the ones I get exposed to from Les Enfoires. I watch their videos on YouTube, and it is like taking a breath of fresh air. Plus, I don't have to deal with the twerking.

Edit:

Originally Posted by eru777

Jean Michel Jarre was so popular in the 80s that he used whole cities as a backdrop for his live concerts. He was also the first Western artist to be invited to perform in China.

He played Houston in 1986 and I was living there at the time. The downtown glass skyscrapers were his backdrop. It was quite spectacular.

[eru777]

Originally Posted by CleverCowboy

He played Houston in 1986 and I was living there at the time. The downtown glass skyscrapers were his backdrop. It was quite spectacular.

Lucky! I'd love to have been there. He came to Greece in 2010 but I was doing military training so I couldn't go (In Greece all males have to do that for almost a year).

[Mr Coucou]

Originally Posted by CleverCowboy

Popular music over the last decade or so, save a few songs here and there, has been pretty awful in my opinion. ... But the bands you list, those were the ones I grew up with, and I can add dozens more to that list. Those days were incredible for rock, and I was spoiled.

Same with me.

In your opinion, when do you think music "went bad"??? For myself, I'd say around 2003. For me, there was some really good music in the late 90's to early 00's.

I think 9-11 was a sort of cultural turning point, or something; the country hasn't been the same since. I don't think 9-11 "caused" the decline--- the problems have been festering for decades. Let me give an example: In 2000, Madonna did a version of "American Pie". The video is on youtube--- and someone commented about how the video reminded them of pre-9-11 America, and how much they missed pre-9-11 America.

Originally Posted by CleverCowboy

I have spent some time listening to the songs of French artists, mainly the ones I get exposed to from Les Enfoires. I watch their videos on YouTube, and it is like taking a breath of fresh air. Plus, I don't have to deal with the twerking.

I'll have to check out some of those artists. (Also the ones Eru mentioned.)

Still, I have the impression that the English language is better for writing songs than French--- and that is what explains the stark difference between England and France in terms of music. For instance, I've heard people describe French as a monotone--- in contrast, I've heard one French speaker describe English as sounding "flowy." Perhaps English is easier to "melodize" than French due to this. And then there is the huge vocabulary of English--- which gives English more flexibility in terms of rhyming, as well as allowing more nuances of meaning. And on top of this, (I believe) English has more flexibility in terms of grammar than French. Etcetera. (I need to find an expert in linguistics and ask them if they know anything about all this.)

Edit:

Once again, Alizee should become an actress. (If her tattoos are an issue, they can be removed with CGI. About 10 years ago, one of Mark Wahlberg's tattoos was removed for a particular scene. With a.i., its going easier and easier to remove an actor's tattoos, literally at the push of a button.)

[Bamagirl]

Originally Posted by Mr Coucou

And then there is the huge vocabulary of English--- which gives English more flexibility in terms of rhyming, as well as allowing more nuances of meaning. And on top of this, (I believe) English has more flexibility in terms of grammar than French. Etcetera. (I need to find an expert in linguistics and ask them if they know anything about all this.)

I think you make a very interesting point about the "nuances of meaning" in English vs. French, as well as the "flexibility in terms of grammar." I think you are right, and I'd be very interested in what a linguistics expert has to say about that.

I don't think that French is more difficult than English to rhyme, though. In a very non-expert way I have written a lot of poetry over the years, and though English is very satisfying to write--because of the vocabulary--the few times I attempted to write in French I found rhyming to be the least of my problems. Grammar was the main one. And, of course, the fact that I am not fluent in the language!

One thing, though, is that there is a great deal of classic literature written in French--poetry as well as prose. So, I am not sure it is the French language itself that is the problem as much as the fact that English is simply a much more widespread and universal language.

And then, of course (though I don't want to get political here) there is the issue of the basics of marketplace and production. English-speaking, non-socialist countries have historically enjoyed greater success with their marketing, production and distribution efforts for all kinds of products than smaller countries or countries with more restrictive laws regarding free enterprise. And I believe that would include music and films.

[CleverCowboy]

Originally Posted by Mr Coucou

Same with me.

In your opinion, when do you think music "went bad"??? For myself, I'd say around 2003. For me, there was some really good music in the late 90's to early 00's.

I think 9-11 was a sort of cultural turning point, or something; the country hasn't been the same since. I don't think 9-11 "caused" the decline--- the problems have been festering for decades. Let me give an example: In 2000, Madonna did a version of "American Pie". The video is on youtube--- and someone commented about how the video reminded them of pre-9-11 America, and how much they missed pre-9-11 America.

I can list countless bands whose first (and maybe second) albums were phenomenal, then they become "pop-ish". Not too long ago I watched a documentary on the band Kansas, who started as more of a progressive rock band back in the day. They started getting enormous pressure by the label to start writing "hits" and they eventually lost their identity and sold out. Cheap Trick, a band from my home town, same thing. Foreigner, Scorpions, Queen, etc. all made it big, but they abandoned who they were, which in my opinion was defined by their early material.

So the trend for music "going bad" has gone on for quite some time.

Here is a very good video on the subject.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IP0wuwJBdMI