Why isn't Alizée/French music successful in the US?

[failax]

It's impossible to keep the feeling of a french song translated in english, it's a sort of Frankenstein.I think americans would learn to love other languages beyond english.I'm italian but i've studied english and french, english is not the best language available,it's only the most used.

[Elise]

I am lost. You keep changing your point, where did complaining come from. Of course everyone listens to American music, it’s just because if something is American, by default the whole world will hear about it. It’s that simple. The cultural domination is the reason why these quotas exist. Do you agree or not? Quality is not the only thing that determines popularity. Another factor is whether it is American. The quality will then be a separate question.

I spent a couple of hours listening to French radio, I liked Indochine and Louise Attaque. Search online for “French rock” and explore.

english is not the best language available,it's only the most used.

Yes I agree it doesn’t necessarily mean English is the best language, every language has ways to be creative and play with words. Sure there are some things you can do in English and not in another language, and there are some things you can do in another language but not in English.

[AlizéeSuperFanFIN]

One reason English occurs in almost every aspect of life may be that it’s easy to learn?!

If you compare, for example, Southeast Asian languages ​​or less common languages, it seems to be really difficult to learn them without vocational training ...

Personally, I like Italian music the most (in addition to Finnish music, of course) and now, because of Alizée, I also like French music (though mostly only her music).

Many other rarer languages ​​are also nice to listen to! Precisely because they are so different...!

[Elise]

I don't know. Whether a language is easy to learn depends on your native language. A lot of Finns and Scandinavians have really good English right? And I read this is partly because you are exposed to a lot of English through TV and movies, as well as the standard of English education there?

Even a language that is considered "hard" could be easy if you are more motivated to learn it - some of it comes down to you.

[AlizéeSuperFanFIN]

Absolutely... Probably we Scandinavians teach it "almost most", in countries where it is not the main language...

But if we compare, for example, English and Chinese... So these Southeast Asian letters etc are already difficult for Westerners, for example.

Of course, somewhere in Asia, English language is not collectively as popular, and there are clearly the most people there.

[Mr Coucou]

Originally Posted by Elise

I am lost. You keep changing your point, where did complaining come from.

I was being silly in my previous posts. (Besides being confusing, it might have been annoying as well.) I can be immature at times.

I'll try to be more serious.

Of course everyone listens to American music, it’s just because if something is American, by default the whole world will hear about it. It’s that simple. The cultural domination is the reason why these quotas exist. Do you agree or not? Quality is not the only thing that determines popularity. Another factor is whether it is American. The quality will then be a separate question.

English-language songs are dominant--- hence, the quota.

The question is why are English-language songs so dominant.

You believe that it is because of the global influence of the United States.

I believe that it is due to the structure of the English language, which makes it easier for songs to be created in English.

Here is my understanding:

Songwriting involves mapping words onto notes. A 1-syllable word maps onto one note. A 2-syllable word maps onto 2 notes. Etc.

In case of a multi-syllable word, the syllables have different stresses, and the notes must correspond to the stress. Whereas with a one-syllable word, it maps directly onto a single note, without the problem of having to match syllabic stress.

In other words, it is much, much easier to map one-syllable words onto a melody.

And English is very good at writing with single-syllable words.


Here is the chorus from that song that I posted earlier, 'cool kids':

I wish that I could be like the cool kids
'Cause all the cool kids, they seem to fit in
I wish that I could be like the cool kids, like the cool kids
I wish that I could be like the cool kids
'Cause all the cool kids, they seem to get it
I wish that I could be like the cool kids, like the cool kids

Every single word is one syllable. This would be almost impossible to do in French.

The rest of the lyrics of 'cool kids' are not exclusively one-syllable words, but they are mostly one-syllable words.

Generally speaking, there will always be some multi-syllable words in song lyrics. But having lyrics which are mostly one-syllable gives you maximum flexibilty. And this is something at which English excels.

(Sorry if this post is sort of pedantic and long-winded, but its the best that I can explain it.)

[Elise]

I think we have a common understanding now. No need to apologise for long-windedness. Yes, and we see this influence in many other ways, American culture (not just music) is impossible to avoid. It’s inevitable everyone will hear something related to it.

You might find you prefer certain languages for certain genres then, for example you like Japanese best in rap, French in rock or whatever. I heard a contrast expressed that French singers of the 20th century focused more on the poetic text and deep messages of the lyrics, whereas English singers focused on the sound without the lyrics being too important. It’s a big generalisation to make and I can think of exceptions both ways but overall something reasonable. So the language barrier may be less important for enjoyment in this sense, all depending on what you like of course. There is also a huge amount of promotion and marketing that America is good at that contributes to the success and spread of its culture internationally, this includes the music.

Well different sorts of words fit better for different types of song. English is not the only language with loads of one-syllable words, the most common words in any language tend to be one syllable and those are also good for catchiness of melody. Papaoutai and Alors on Danse by Stromae do it well, and I think the catchiness is mostly due to the sound even without knowing the words.

[CleverCowboy]

I'm a little late to this party it looks like. But I love talking music so I'll put in my 2 cents.

Rock has dominated the global music scene for many decades and the roots can be traced back to the southern portion of the US almost 100 years ago. I believe it is because of the diversity of cultures in America that caused it to flourish as it has. There is the vanilla rock and roll that was made mainstream by Elvis Presley. But before then in the deep south where African influence was heavy, musical genres that were derived from rock such as gospel, blues and R&B were already widespread. In the Blue Ridge mountain region across middle America, you had country, folk and bluegrass dominating with people from different origins in the Old World.

The city of New Orleans is where Jazz started, which by the way is the type of music that Alizee said she most likes to dance to. It is a city of historical French influence. Add to the city the influx of freed slaves from the Civil War, the prevalence of brass marching bands post war and you have the recipe for a new type of music and Voila! It happened.

So I don't think this is a matter of just "US music is better than French music" or any other country, but US music is the product of the wide variety of talent that immigrated from all over, plus those that were born here. As it goes back out to the world, some genres might strike a chord of familiarity with other countries because of their influence on it. Case in point - Alizee likes to dance to Jazz the best. Jazz originated from New Orleans, a city heavily influenced by the French. Coincidental or something more to it?

[Elise]

Hey, thank you for this information about American music history. Also can this thread be moved to ‘Off Topic’ please, is that possible?

Mr Coucou: I’m not sure what your argument is any more. First, you hadn’t heard of French rock (and for that I again recommend Indochine), then cool, catchy songs to dance to, then it was the existence of a quota on radio, then it was that supposedly all French people complain about the quota. From your earlier post

I could delve into the linguistics of why English is better for songwriting, but I don't have to--- the quota proves my point!!

Then you decided you did have to talk about the linguistics after all? You’re moving the goalposts.

Do you actually agree with me? America has the most money and resources and a diverse culture which is why it’s the birthplace of many music genres, that become the most well-known around the world. We could say exactly the same thing about the American movie industry and other aspects of culture and the arts.

[Mr Coucou]

Originally Posted by Elise

Mr Coucou: I’m not sure what your argument is any more. First, you hadn’t heard of French rock (and for that I again recommend Indochine), then cool, catchy songs to dance to, then it was the existence of a quota on radio, then it was that supposedly all French people complain about the quota. [...] Then you decided you did have to talk about the linguistics after all? You’re moving the goalposts.

I was being silly in my earlier posts. I can understand why you are confused by what I wrote.

Do you actually agree with me? America has the most money and resources and a diverse culture which is why it’s the birthplace of many music genres, that become the most well-known around the world. We could say exactly the same thing about the American movie industry and other aspects of culture and the arts.

No, I don't agree with you.

I think music based on the English language is better in quality than music that is based on the French language. It has everything to do with the structure of the English language itself and nothing to do with the United States. English doesn't just make for better lyrics-- it makes for better melodies. I can hear it.

The English language is ideal for songwriting. As one writer put it:

By comparison with many other languages, for songwriting English is a breeze. Lots of opportunities for rhyming lyrics, nice short words that mean a lot so you can relax the musical pace (or not) as you please, pronunciation that doesn’t require you to contort your mouth and tongue so your face looks like a tumble dryer at work, plus plenty of words ending in convenient vowel sounds that are easily “singable,”

https://howtowritebetter.net/why-eng...cusses%20why..


That makes perfect sense to me.

Even Boudennat is an example of this. Gourmandies and MCE represent some of the best of French music. Those two albums are good, but they're not as good as the best of British and American music. Gourmandies and MCE are good but they're not mind-blowing.