Her Nose Scrunch...

[Mr Coucou]

Originally Posted by CleverCowboy

was a discussion we had on this forum whether the nose scrunch is staged, or natural. I feel strongly that it is natural. There are too many times I have seen her do it when she is not performing.

It depends on what you mean by "natural" versus "staged."

The scrunches are "natural" in the sense in that she does them both on-stage and off. (For example, she probably does nose-scrunches when engaged in conversation with close friends and family.) I think the nose-scrunches are a facial-gesture that she has probably done all her life.

But the scrunches are "staged" in the sense that they are done under conscious control. Off-stage (e.g. conversation at a family BBQ), the scrunches are being done deliberately in the context of a conversation. On-stage (e.g. En Concert), the scrunches are being done deliberately in the context of a performance.

[Aragorn97]

Can this be considered a nose scrunch?

[Scruffydog777]

Originally Posted by Aragorn97

Can this be considered a nose scrunch?

It's hard to tell with the resolution of this picture to see the lines of scrunch, but you can see her upper lip has moved up towards her nose and the only way you can get that to happen is to either sneeze or to do a scrunch. She's not sneezing so I'd say for record keeping, this can be officially considered a nose scrunch.

[Aragorn97]

Originally Posted by Scruffydog777

It's hard to tell with the resolution of this picture to see the lines of scrunch, but you can see her upper lip has moved up towards her nose and the only way you can get that to happen is to either sneeze or to do a scrunch. She's not sneezing so I'd say for record keeping, this can be officially considered a nose scrunch.

Thank you for the accurate analysis

[CleverCowboy]

This move is called the "Half-Scrunch" at 1:11 It's a rare event. I don't recall her doing this one anywhere else but this performance.

https://youtu.be/6Cq93i_VjJ8?t=67

Normal Full-Scrunches at 1:38 and 2:34.

The performance would be so much better without all those dancers around her. Too much.

Edit:

Originally Posted by Mr Coucou

It depends on what you mean by "natural" versus "staged."

The scrunches are "natural" in the sense in that she does them both on-stage and off. (For example, she probably does nose-scrunches when engaged in conversation with close friends and family.) I think the nose-scrunches are a facial-gesture that she has probably done all her life.

But the scrunches are "staged" in the sense that they are done under conscious control. Off-stage (e.g. conversation at a family BBQ), the scrunches are being done deliberately in the context of a conversation. On-stage (e.g. En Concert), the scrunches are being done deliberately in the context of a performance.

I don't think we are going to agree on this topic, but I do enjoy the conversation.

I think if she consciously makes a decision to face-scrunch on stage, then somebody or somebody(s) had told her in the past that they are endearing and not annoying. Why would she purposefully do something on stage that might annoy some of those watching her?

Did Mylene notice her scrunch and tell her it was really cute when she does it, so make a point of doing it while performing? Or maybe she noticed her scrunch and thought it was endearing but said nothing? I think if Mylene tried to correct anything in Alizee, it would be her tendency to talk and sing out of the left side of her mouth. I don't think Mylene tried to change Alizee's personality at all.

[Bamagirl]

Originally Posted by CleverCowboy

I think if she consciously makes a decision to face-scrunch on stage, then somebody or somebody(s) had told her in the past that they are endearing and not annoying. Why would she purposefully do something on stage that might annoy some of those watching her?

Did Mylene notice her scrunch and tell her it was really cute when she does it, so make a point of doing it while performing?

Well, here's my two cents' worth...I think that it is almost certain that it is a natural gesture, and she most likely does it unconsciously most of the time. Certainly it started out that way.

As a woman, I know that if I am told I have some kind of mannerism that is attractive, I don't necessarily deliberately do it, but I become conscious OF it, and so I might end up doing it more--especially at times when I wish to appear at my best. It also depends on the specific message I am told it delivers. If I am told it is "charming," then I might do it if I want to "charm." If I am told it is "alluring," I would be aware, and try to only do it if that was the reaction I wanted.

Mylene might well have encouraged her to do it--but, again, I have no doubt it is a natural gesture that originated with Alizée.

[Aragorn97]

I think all her scrunches are a sort of impulsive reaction to music: in the same way some singers or musicians clap their hands, stomp their feet or move their heads, she does all those scrunches. It may "help" her to get the rhythm or on the contrary it is a consequence of that.
So I think it is a natural habit which she brings in her performances. Unconsciously, in my opinion.

[RedRafe]

Hmm…

Alizée and her “nose scrunches”…

Originally Posted by CleverCowboy

Did Mylene notice her scrunch and tell her it was really cute when she does it, so make a point of doing it while performing? Or maybe she noticed her scrunch and thought it was endearing but said nothing? I think if Mylene tried to correct anything in Alizee, it would be her tendency to talk and sing out of the left side of her mouth. I don't think Mylene tried to change Alizee's personality at all.

To be honest, I do think they are actually part of her “normal”, natural, range of gestures…

However, when Mylène was “taking stock” of the “material” she had to work with, so to speak, with Alizée, she encountered this “phenomenon”, and, she probably thought something like, “damn, this is cuter than a whole “barrage” of “popcorn farts”, “weaponised” it, and included it in Alizée’s normal stage repertoire, along with the “cutesy little wave”, thing…

They are both pretty much “stock in trade” for Alizée, if you look at a lot of her “routines”…

And the effect, simply stunning…

Mylène took a normal trait, "wove" it into the "routine", and made it “part of the magic”…

[Mr Coucou]

Originally Posted by CleverCowboy

I think if Mylene tried to correct anything in Alizee, it would be her tendency to talk and sing out of the left side of her mouth. I don't think Mylene tried to change Alizee's personality at all.

If Mylene tried to discourage Alizee from favoring the left side of her mouth, then I think Mylene failed miserably.

Actually, I think the mouth thing is a plus. It gives Alizee character; it makes Alizee seem sly or something. If I was Mylene, I wouldn't haven't discouraged it at all. (If I were to remark about it, I would tell Alizee that I thought it was cute.)

The nose-scrunches are just a playful thing that Alizee does. In contrast, I think that Alizee's favoring of the left side of her mouth has a neurological basis.

Edit:

Originally Posted by Aragorn97

I think all her scrunches are a sort of impulsive reaction to music: in the same way some singers or musicians clap their hands, stomp their feet or move their heads, she does all those scrunches. It may "help" her to get the rhythm or on the contrary it is a consequence of that.
So I think it is a natural habit which she brings in her performances. Unconsciously, in my opinion.

We all experience impulses--- but we also choose whether to act on the impulses or not.

These musicians who clap and stomp--- their clapping and stomping is both impulsive and conscious. They experience an impulse to clap--- it "feels right" to clap--- and they act on that impulse. They are fully aware of what they are doing.

The same principle applies to Alizee's nose scrunches; her nose scrunches are both impulsive and conscious. Alizee is fully aware of what she is doing--- regardless of what people say on the forum.

In En Concert, you'll see Alizee do all kind of expressions and gestures--- for example, she'll do eye rolls. When she does an eye roll, its not "unconscious"--- she is fully aware that she is doing an eye roll. The nose scrunches are the same way.

Alizee does eye rolls and nose scrunches in En Concert as a way of relating to the audience. Techincally speaking, Alizee is "acting out" the songs--- that's what a skilled performer does when performing live. Alizee is fully aware of what she is doing; she knows what she is doing at all times.

[Aragorn97]

Yeah, she is probably aware of doing those scrunches. What I meant is that I don't think she thinks "OK, for this note I'll do a double scrunch with eyes and nose. Then a classic one should be fine": it is just her own way of keeping the rhythm, I presume.
On the other hand, the eye roll should be both impulsive and conscious in the sense that it is not "innate".

By the way, I love how we discuss "trifles" in a serious way on this forum.