[Split] Alizée on star story - career discussion

[Scruffydog777]

Originally Posted by pepelepew

.......... She needs some real professionals guiding the ship for a change......

She gave up an awful lot when she left MF and LB, not only the great music and directing of Laurent and the lyrics and tutoring of MF but all the experience and connections these two had in the industry.

Finding someone who knows what they're doing is a tall order. People who can make a difference don't grow on trees and most are probably already tied up with other artists. Plus wouldn't her trying to find someone to help her move in the right direction be a slap in the face to Jeremy. I know there are others involved in managing her career, but I think he has a lot of influence in it.


They said on that tv show that the people want to see Alizée's panties. Would it had made a difference with UEDS if she had some sexy dances choreographed or sexy outfits put together for some of these songs? Surely a well put together video can do a lot for a song, but could something along those lines made UEDS a commercial success? I don't think so, but I could be very wrong. I think it's ultimately the song first that has to be very good and if it's very good, it will do well on it's own merit, but a good dance routine or video can add a great deal more to it's popularity.

[Rev]

Originally Posted by Scruffydog777

...They said on that tv show that the people want to see Alizée's panties. Would it had made a difference with UEDS if she had some sexy dances choreographed or sexy outfits put together for some of these songs? Surely a well put together video can do a lot for a song, but could something along those lines made UEDS a commercial success? I don't think so, but I could be very wrong. I think it's ultimately the song first that has to be very good and if it's very good, it will do well on it's own merit, but a good dance routine or video can add a great deal more to it's popularity.

A really good song is the starting point. A good video or other promotion gets it noticed above all the other stuff out there.

[Deepwaters]

Honestly, I think "panties" is being a little unfair to the French public and Alizée's old fans. It implies that there was nothing to her success beyond sex appeal. I think that's absurd. Sure, there was a portion of her audience that was like that, but for the most part her fans were into the whole package, including the music, the choreography, and above all Alizée's personality. Psychédélices was too big a change for some, and UEDS even more so. UEDS is an artistic album that appeals to those who already like electronica, and that alas is not a wide audience.

As I've said many times, there was no sacrifice in leaving Mylène. There was no way that relationship could have continued. It was targeted towards a niche that Alizée could not fill as an adult. Striking out on her own was absolutely necessary. Of course, that involves risk of stumbling. UEDS was a commercial stumble. I believe she'll find her footing and the type of music that works for her and finds her audience. By staying with M&L, all she could have done was to decline. She may fail on her own. She would certainly have failed with them.

[pepelepew]

Originally Posted by Scruffydog777

She gave up an awful lot when she left MF and LB, not only the great music and directing of Laurent and the lyrics and tutoring of MF but all the experience and connections these two had in the industry.

Finding someone who knows what they're doing is a tall order. People who can make a difference don't grow on trees and most are probably already tied up with other artists. Plus wouldn't her trying to find someone to help her move in the right direction be a slap in the face to Jeremy. I know there are others involved in managing her career, but I think he has a lot of influence in it.


They said on that tv show that the people want to see Alizée's panties. Would it had made a difference with UEDS if she had some sexy dances choreographed or sexy outfits put together for some of these songs? Surely a well put together video can do a lot for a song, but could something along those lines made UEDS a commercial success? I don't think so, but I could be very wrong. I think it's ultimately the song first that has to be very good and if it's very good, it will do well on it's own merit, but a good dance routine or video can add a great deal more to it's popularity.

I don't think anything would have made a big difference with Ueds.As has been said there is a narrow band of support for electronica. Same old song and dance that has been stated on AA many times. Professional production, quality music from popular genre, professional marketing, professional video with choreography.Not so difficult lol! Just a wish list for Alizee. It will be difficult to recreate the magic from the past. Not emplying that she return to same style or appearance, but something just as dramatic. Alizee may not be up for it. How many times has this subject been broached? Too many to count.

[Corsaire]

Originally Posted by Scruffydog777

They said on that tv show that the people want to see Alizée's panties. Would it had made a difference with UEDS if she had some sexy dances choreographed or sexy outfits put together for some of these songs? Surely a well put together video can do a lot for a song, but could something along those lines made UEDS a commercial success? I don't think so, but I could be very wrong. I think it's ultimately the song first that has to be very good and if it's very good, it will do well on it's own merit, but a good dance routine or video can add a great deal more to it's popularity.

There are exceptions, but I think that, in general, what makes a music album (a movie, a TV show....) appealing to the masses is about 75% marketing and hype and 25% artistic/entertainment value. You could convince the masses to buy UEDS tomorrow if you wanted to. You could convince the masses Alizée’s has reinvented herself into a really relevant artist and that UEDS is a great achievement. You can sell Celine Dion and Madonna all you want or you can make them disappear in the background. You can make Lady Gaga one day and break her the next day. The entertainment industry can create any hype it wants to. The entertainment industry decides what it wants to sell to the people and not the other way around.

BTW, I am not saying that “popular” is necessarily “crap”.

Edit:

Originally Posted by Deepwaters

As I've said many times, there was no sacrifice in leaving Mylène. There was no way that relationship could have continued. It was targeted towards a niche that Alizée could not fill as an adult. Striking out on her own was absolutely necessary. Of course, that involves risk of stumbling. UEDS was a commercial stumble. I believe she'll find her footing and the type of music that works for her and finds her audience. By staying with M&L, all she could have done was to decline. She may fail on her own. She would certainly have failed with them.

I beg to differ. I think that Alizée/MF/LB could have run this operation for at least 10 more years if they had wanted to. They could have kept the sexual titillation going and all that was really needed was an adjustment to the lyrics (less juvenile) and some other minor details to be worked out. Apparently, Alizée wanted to explore other avenues, but I wouldn’t reject the possibility that MF/LB could have offered Alizée some other type of image that she didn’t want to be a part of.

I just don’t believe they parted away because the association could not work on the same basis anymore. I think one of the two sides wanted a change and the other side refused to go along. Speculations, of course....

[severianb]

Originally Posted by Corsaire

I just don’t believe they parted away because the association could not work on the same basis anymore. I think one of the two sides wanted a change and the other side refused to go along. Speculations, of course....

You are actually stating fact, not speculating. (You didn't know you were so smart, did you?) Here is a direct quote from her sweet lips to our unworthy ears:

In the end, though, I did get the impression that I was a product, and so I started suggesting things that were more personal and less sexy, and that's where our differences began. We separated, however, on good terms.

From this interview: http://alizeeamerica.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5291

Mylene and friends wanted to keep racheting up the sexy... although how you get anymore sexy than what they had already done is beyond me, and apparently, was beyond Alizée also!!!

[Scruffydog777]

Originally Posted by Corsaire

There are exceptions, but I think that, in general, what makes a music album (a movie, a TV show....) appealing to the masses is about 75% marketing and hype and 25% artistic/entertainment value. You could convince the masses to buy UEDS tomorrow if you wanted to. You could convince the masses Alizée’s has reinvented herself into a really relevant artist and that UEDS is a great achievement. You can sell Celine Dion and Madonna all you want or you can make them disappear in the background. You can make Lady Gaga one day and break her the next day. The entertainment industry can create any hype it wants to. The entertainment industry decides what it wants to sell to the people and not the other way around.

....

I think an important factor you left out is reputation. Surprisingly, the French people didn't seem to give Alizée any credit for the success of her first two albums. They seemed to think it was mainly if not all due to MF.

So with Psych, Lily was more or less starting off with no reputation, like a new singer that comes along and some good marketing could have led to much better results for this album, but with UEDS, she now had a reputation, one apparently the French people were not impressed with and I think no amount of marketing would have made much of an impact on the sales of this album.

Originally Posted by Corsaire

I beg to differ. I think that Alizée/MF/LB could have run this operation for at least 10 more years if they had wanted to. They could have kept the sexual titillation going and all that was really needed was an adjustment to the lyrics (less juvenile) and some other minor details to be worked out. Apparently, Alizée wanted to explore other avenues, but I wouldn’t reject the possibility that MF/LB could have offered Alizée some other type of image that she didn’t want to be a part of.

....

I don't think the music MF/LB wrote had to be titillating in order to sell. Look at the song Tempete. I think it's one of Alizée's most beautiful songs and there's nothing of a really sexual nature in there. It's a song about Napoleon and there are several other songs that aren't of a sexual manner, at least not on the surface. Lou ou Toi, A qoui reve une jeune fille and Amelie m'a dit are all beautiful songs, proving at least to me, that they didn't need sex to sell.

But maybe this was a direction MF didn't want to go in, didn't want to do damage to the reputation she had created for herself.

[severianb]

Originally Posted by Scruffydog777

But maybe this was a direction MF didn't want to go in, didn't want to do damage to the reputation she had created for herself.

Uh, Scruffy. Did you read the quote I just posted? There is no MAYBE about it. Mylene wanted to keep getting sexier (probably nude-colored outfits and simulated sex a la Britney, I mean, what else was there?) and Lilly didn't want to go there.

And those songs you listed are absolutely beautiful. Our angel's voice is at its best when singing soft, beautiful songs like that. When I listen to her sing those songs live (such as En Concert) it's sometimes impossible to distinguish them from the album version. I also think that's the way she should go with her next album. However, if you think those songs had much to do with her earlier success..... I'd say you're wrong. They sold the sexy/forbidden image.

[Deepwaters]

Originally Posted by Corsaire

I beg to differ. I think that Alizée/MF/LB could have run this operation for at least 10 more years if they had wanted to.

Part of what I'm basing my opinion on is the much lower level of success of MCE compared to Gourmandises. Alizée was on the threshold of adulthood, but the music written for her and the choreography of her performances kept the sexy ingenue image in place. I'm thinking especially of the dances and outfits for JEAM and JPVA, but also of the lyrics, all of which were suggestive of a young girl appealing to an older man.

My feeling is that Mylène was looking for something specific when she went talent-hunting. We know that she wanted someone to perform some songs that she felt she was too old to do herself. Mylène in her late 30s would have seemed preposterous in the role of Lolita, to be sure. So she found Alizée, who was perfect for the part, and crafted that image. The image was animated by Alizée's own personality which came through it to be perceived by her fans, but it was a bit more of a mismatch in the MCE era than in the beginning. Yet it still worked to a degree. But age 18 was really the last time it could. It could never work today. Alizée herself is too old to pull it off.

I would concur that Mylène and Laurent had the talent and skill to do something completely different under Alizée's direction, but the question is, why would they? They have their own partnership producing music and videos for Mylène and it is very successful. Mylène had accomplished what she set out to do with Alizée, and Alizèe had benefited from it with a career start like most performers can only fantasize about. From there, it was necessary for her to find out her own performing niche and her own style, and I don't think that M&L would ever have seen her as anything but a sideline. So it really was necessary that they split.

[RobandSandy]

Originally Posted by Scruffydog777

I think she's too strong a person to cry, but she has to be terribly disappointed, and depressed to an extent. I wonder if there's something we could do as a forum to show our support for her, cheer her up, let her know we will still be there for her.

I dont believe she is crying over the lack of album sales for UEDS either. I believe it is a true attempt by a true artist to reinvent herself. Which was absolutely necessary for her career to continue. Alizée is a stronger person than all that. And I for one and Sandy for two hope she NEVER gives in and becomes another slutty pop star prancing around "showing her panties" even though that seems to be what the majority of the world seems to want. Alizée is way too talented to lower herself to that level. All the Katy Perrys and Brittany Spears and Lady Gagas the mass media can keep as far as we are concerned. If it was just another pop slut I wanted to see I would have been following the afforementioned. The world of mass media has plenty of them, and I cant stand any of them, lots of "panties" and shallow of any true artistic talent. And, as I have stated in the past, What will Alizée do next??? As true of any true artist, Alizée is going to follow her heart and not give in to THE MAN!!! And when she does I will definately be getting her new work. Personally I cant wait for her next release!