Lunch with AJ & JC (by Skype) lottery?

[Deepwaters]

Lefty, consider what you are able to do now with just a little software. What would it have taken 20 years ago to do something like that? Now project a few more years into the future. The trend is for costs of all of these things to come down, and control to be decentralized.

I'm sure it will never be the case that producing music is as cheap as writing a book, but it doesn't have to be. All that has to happen is for professional-quality music recording -- separate from distribution -- to be within most people's reach. We are surely not far from that now. If you could partner with other musicians, so that you didn't have to hire professional accompaniment; i.e., if you were recording as a band not as an individual, how close could you come in your home studio to professional studio-quality? How much would you have to spend to bridge that gap? OTOH, suppose you wanted to record your work with your band in a studio -- bearing in mind that you wouldn't have to pay the musicians a dime, only the studio itself -- how much would it cost to record a half hour or so of good music? What if you and your band members were splitting that cost? Suppose there were four of you. Would that be within reach?

I understand that the sales model will always be at least a little different, but as things continue to decentralize through advances in technology, the control of the record companies will decline and record companies themselves will become dinosaurs headed for extinction, nothing surer.

[lefty12357]

There is no doubt that the cost of putting together a recording of reasonable quality in the home has been dropping dramatically. This is a big help on the way to a new model of doing business. But one must consider that many musicians are not trained, interested or technically savvy enough to do a good job at recording themselves. There is so much involved that knowing how to do it right is a career in itself. Also, it helps to have a second pair of professional ears to help get the sound right. Many home studios can’t supply properly treated rooms for good recording like a pro studio can. Currently, the best way may be to record basic tracks at home, and then do the sweetening, mixing and mastering in professional facilities.

As for cost, it varies dramatically. I've seen studio costs to record an album vary from $5,000 to $30,000, and it can go much, much higher. I’ve seen a lot of studios that charge around $500.00 a day, and these aren’t necessarily world class. It also depends on the kind of music you are recording. I have at least $30,000.00 invested in my humble little studio, but you can get a reasonable start for a lot less. And I’m sure you know that 1 hour of studio time doesn’t equal 1 hour of recorded music. Even though I work fast, it’s not uncommon for me to invest 40 hours of studio time into a piece of music that is 8 minutes long. And when it comes to producing a professional video, the cost can go through the roof.

There will always be those rare artists who can do everything themselves. But so many other good artists will be excluded. That’s why I proposed the co-op idea so artists can share resources and knowledge. I’m with you 100% on moving away from the current model of doing business, but the recording companies still play a valuable role and we need to find a replacement for that, because if you read this you can see what pigs they are.

I’ve posted this video before, but it really shows what you miss when recording a self-produced album at home. You can also see the time that goes into producing world class recordings, and the producer’s knowledge is invaluable to this particular artist. I doubt she would get the same results doing this herself at home.



Knowledge may be a much bigger factor than cost, but both are part of the reality of doing your own recording.

[User22]

This conversation slowly went from a failureish idea of Alizee doing a video conference with Alizee(although most of our member's ideas of Alizee-related ideas(also some of mine) are complete failure ideas(besides the Open Letter to Alizee Project)) to how much money it costs to record a cd hahaha

[FanDeAliFee]

Originally Posted by lefty12357

There is no doubt that the cost of putting together a recording of reasonable quality in the home has been dropping dramatically...

I thought people might like to check out USA's National Public Radio report, Recording Studios Face Uncertain Future, dated December 10, 2009. It writes in part:

Jim Anderson, a longtime recording engineer and NPR alum, who now teaches at New York University... says digital technology has gotten a lot better over the past 10 years — to the point where you can make an almost professional-quality recording on your laptop, for a fraction of what you'd spend in professional studios.

------------------------------------------

Originally Posted by docdtv

...ponder this:

In 1999 consumers spent $39 billion on music, mostly CDs.
Today it's a $17.6 billion industry and CDs are clearly on the way out.

Originally Posted by Deepwaters

As for the stats on music, remember that's gross revenues. CDs cost more than downloads and should, since they involve production costs where downloads don't. Are people buying less music today than in the past? They're certainly not listening to less.

The International Federation of the Phonographic Industry read what folks like Deepwaters wrote and now offers these points:

It argues that the decline in gross revenue is not coming largely from the efficiency of CD-free virtual distribution...

Legitimate digital sources accounted for [only] 27 percent of recording industry revenue.

but from massive piracy...

Worldwide, the industry federation says, 95 percent of the music downloaded via the Internet is pirated.

Overall gross industry revenue was down to about $15.8 billion in 2009. Does anyone think net revenue hasn't also declined in the last decade? (Albeit I agree that decline would be less dramatic and more useful to read.)

The implied fallout for artists is stuff like this:

In France... the number of albums released by domestic artists has fallen by 60 percent.

[Deepwaters]

What's the date on that piracy stat?

Edit: Doing the math, those figures seem contradictory. Listing them:

Revenues declined 55% over X years (need a date there, too).

27% of revenues are now digital

95% of music is pirated

Doesn't add up. If 95% of downloaded music was pirated, that should have resulted in a MUCH larger drop in revenue.

What if zero music was pirated (obviously not true, but just playing with numbers here)? If 27% of revenues are now digital, and that alone produced a 55% drop in revenue, then the difference in price from CD to download would need to be .45 * .27 = .12, i.e. downloads cost only 12% of CDs. Reversing the logic: take the actual price ratio and substitute it into that equation, or rather the one solved for it, and you can find what the losses should have been if that price ratio accounted for 100% of it. The difference between that and the actual loss of revenue is what piracy truly accounts for.

As for the decline in number of albums released, we see a similar decline in the publishing field. It's not due to piracy, but due to the availability of books published outside the conventional publishing house -- like mine. Are there stats on how much new music is released in non-conventional fashion?

[Ben]

Originally Posted by Deepwaters

Doesn't add up. If 95% of downloaded music was pirated, that should have resulted in a MUCH larger drop in revenue.

I don't know the numbers, but not necessarily if overall music consumption has gone way up. My mom always says how she'd buy a couple albums a year growing up, and that's all the music she'd listen to. I can't imagine living like that. Despite the damages, one element of piracy that could end up being beneficial in the long run is that people are listening to a lot more music, and music they would have never heard otherwise. French pop, for example .

Don't get me wrong, piracy definitely is eating into profits, but I think sometimes statistics are used to exaggerate how much. Say 10 people buy a CD in 2001 and no one pirates, while in 2009 10 people buy a CD and 90 pirate it. Now there's 90% piracy, but profits are still the same and more people have heard the music. Overall I think that's a good thing! Of course I'm over simplifying, and fewer people are buying as well, so it's not so cut and dry.

[lefty12357]

Another factor to consider is the quality of the products being offered by the record companies. Maybe sales are partly down because of a lack of imagination and foresight on their part as to what artists they sign and what music they promote. I find myself having to go farther afield to find music that interests me. French pop, for example .

It seems that in the past the mainstream would get infiltrated by new musical ideas and undergo a significant change. Each decade seems to have its own sound. But I think this process has slowed down and weakened. I blame it partly on the fact that a few multinational corporations have taken over most of the music industry. I believe the industry was in better hands when it was run by people whose first love was the music itself.

Add to that a bored and apathetic music buying public that has less regard for intellectual property rights and has easy access to music without paying for it and you end up with things being as they are today.

[Deepwaters]

Originally Posted by lefty12357

Another factor to consider is the quality of the products being offered by the record companies. Maybe sales are partly down because of a lack of imagination and foresight on their part as to what artists they sign and what music they promote. I find myself having to go farther afield to find music that interests me. French pop, for example .

I keep coming back to this, and I do recognize the differences, but exactly the same thing is happening in publishing. Falling sales and profits over the past decade or more have destroyed such courage as ever existed in the industry. Now, only old established writers or musicians who can almost be guaranteed to sell well can obtain an outlet in the traditional way. It's the kiss of death, because the only way to reverse the decline is to take risks and offer the new and different, but the industries have become so cautious and timid that they have lost the ability to do this. The consolidation of control into a few giant companies is not the cause of this, I think, but a parallel symtom.

Ultimately, the only way out of the bind is going to be the removal of the middleman.

[lefty12357]

Originally Posted by Deepwaters

I keep coming back to this, and I do recognize the differences, but exactly the same thing is happening in publishing. Falling sales and profits over the past decade or more have destroyed such courage as ever existed in the industry. Now, only old established writers or musicians who can almost be guaranteed to sell well can obtain an outlet in the traditional way. It's the kiss of death, because the only way to reverse the decline is to take risks and offer the new and different, but the industries have become so cautious and timid that they have lost the ability to do this. The consolidation of control into a few giant companies is not the cause of this, I think, but a parallel symtom.

Ultimately, the only way out of the bind is going to be the removal of the middleman.

I agree that what you say is definitely going on now. But also what caused a big wave of consolidation in the music industry was the CD. When the CD started to catch on, record companies began releasing all their old catalogs on the new digital format. They sold like crazy and there were no artist development, recording or promotional costs. It was easy money and no risk.

Companies like Sony got wind of this and wanted to get in on this easy money, so they bought up many of the record companies. The situation eventually ran its course and more effort had to go back into new artists and music, but now there was a lot of non-music people running the show. I think that contributed to where we are today, and these are the middlemen between the artist and the public.

[User22]

wow....so I see this thread as totally pointless and off track haha. but hey we all run into those. But it is interesting watching you two battle to the death about CD revenues.