Separate forum category?

[Cooney]

Speaking of silent-but-not-silent H's, I hate the word "haut" (meaning high). I'm corrupted by years of American pronunciation (haut cuisine, haut couture, etc...) where we pronounce all the letters. Most of the time I hear it spoken in French, I can't hear an H on it, or even a T on it in many cases!

[SupaKrupa]

Originally Posted by aFrenchie

Your bad French is not that bad
Sorry not to have corrected this myself earlier: garçoncanadien should have used "pour" ("for") indeed, just like in English . "de" is wrong in that sentence.

Ok... I suppose that's good to know. Is it common or uncommon in French that you can translate it exactly word for word? and a couple examples of each would help immensely

Originally Posted by CFHollister

This problem with prepositions like in this situation (for/of, etc) arise in languages that lack an effective and comprehensive case-marking system such as Latin has (why the French dropped it we may never know). As a result many oblique case roles (and some non-oblique ones) have to be associated to the verb argument through the idiomatic use of propositinal phrases in which the exact preposition to be used simply has to be learned on a case-by-case basis lather than being logically deducable. English is pretty bad, but it is also my understanding that French is particularly problematic in this respect. The prepostions "of" and "for" (and their equivilents on other languages) are especially bad offenders having many diverse and unrelated meanings. One of those things I'm trying to design out of (as much as I can) the artificial language I am in the process of creating .

So you're basically saying... when it comes to these prepositions ("of" and "for"), it's situational?

[aFrenchie]

Originally Posted by Cooney

I'm corrupted by years of American pronunciation (haut cuisine, haut couture, etc...) where we pronounce all the letters. Most of the time I hear it spoken in French, I can't hear an H on it, or even a T on it in many cases!

It must be haute cuisine and haute couture, even in English? (both noun are feminine)
In French, "haute couture" is good but I don't remember having heard "haute cuisine". Rather "grande cuisine"...

Originally Posted by SupaKrupa

Is it common or uncommon in French that you can translate it exactly word for word?

Don't worry, it happens more often that you'd expect it.

[brad]

i just made a seperate forum category for this .. seems like everyone wants it. I just don't want to put to much work on our French speaking members, if they don't have time ...

[garçoncanadien]

PART 1: VERBS

Section 2: The Verb Classes and their Present Tense Conjugations

There are three main groups of verbs in French, and they are classified as follows:

Première Groupe (1st group) - les verbes ER
Deuxième Groupe (2nd group) - les verbes IR
Troisième Groupe (3rd group) - les verbes RE

Each group of verbs has a different present tense conjugation, depending on which pronoun is used:

Première (1e) Groupe (1st group) - les verbes ER

Je __________e
Tu __________es
Il __________e
Elle ________e
Nous ________ons
Vous ________ez
Ils ________ent
Elles _______ent

For all regular ER verbs, they are conjugated by replacing the -ER ending with the listed conjugation.

Take, for example, the verb parler, or to speak.

Je parle
Tu parles
Il parle
Elle parle
Nous parlons
Vous parlez
Ils parlent
Elles parlent

Deuxième (2e) Groupe (2nd group) - les verbes IR Type I

Je __________is
Tu __________is
Il __________it
Elle ________it
Nous ________issons
Vous ________issez
Ils ________issent
Elles _______issent

For all regular IR verbs, they are conjugated by replacing the -IR ending with the listed conjugation.

Take, for example, the verb finir, or to finish.

Je finis
Tu finis
Il finit
Elle finit
Nous finissons
Vous finissez
Ils finissent
Elles finissent

There is another type of IR verb that is conjugated in a similar but not exactly the same way; Let's call them "les verbes IR

Type II". They are conjugated as follows:

Je __________s
Tu __________s
Il __________t
Elle ________t
Nous ________ons
Vous ________ez
Ils ________ent
Elles _______ent

Take, for example, the verb sortir, or to leave.

Je sors
Tu sors
Il sort
Elle sort
Nous sortons
Vous sortez
Ils sortent
Elles sortent


Troisième (3e) Groupe (3rd group) - les verbes RE

Je __________s
Tu __________s
Il __________(none)
Elle ________(none)
Nous ________ons
Vous ________ez
Ils ________ent
Elles _______ent

For all regular RE verbs, they are conjugated by replacing the -RE ending with the listed conjugation. However, RE verbs

have a variety of irregular conjugations. Here is your first introduction to irregular verbs in French

Take, for example, the verb mettre, or to put. Note the double t in the plural; this is done also in many other verbs ending

in -TRE.

Je mets
Tu mets
Il met
Elle met
Nous mettons
Vous mettez
Ils mettent
Elles mettent

In English, there are several present tenses. For example, you can say I do go, I go, or I am going. French does not make

this distinction. There is only one present tense in French.

Now for your homework Please PM me the answers to the following questions.

1. Conjugate the verb dormir (to sleep), being careful to use the conjugations for IR verb Type II.
2. Conjugate the verb écrire (to write), being careful of the following:
The conjugations in plural require an extra v on the left end. i.e. -vons instead of -ons (yes, another

irregularity)
There is élision between Je and the conjugated form of the verb, i.e. j'e_____ not je e_________.
The
3. Conjugate the verb battre (to beat), being careful to use a double t in the plural.
4. Conjugate the verb chanter (to sing).
5. Conjugate the verb polir (to polish), using IR verbs type I.
6. Conjugate the verb grossir (to gain weight), using IR verbs type I.
7. Conjugate the verb entendre (to hear).
8. Conjugate the verb donner (to give).
9. Conjugate the verb continuer (to continue).
10. Conjugate the verb dire (to say), being careful of:
After removing -RE, put an s in its place for all plural conjugations.
The vous conjugation is vous dites (sorry, must memorize this)

If there are no comments, use the regular conjugation.

A très bientôt!

-garçoncanadien

[aFrenchie]

Originally Posted by brad

I just don't want to put to much work on our French speaking members, if they don't have time ...

Not a problem, we'll do just what we can anyway...
Maybe "apprends" (learn) is a bit ambitious though. You should have used something like "(Some) help for your French" for example

[Seapaddler]

Thanks for adding the category Brad, I think a lot of people will benefit from it. Certainly it shouldn't be viewed as a place where French speakers carry and teach the non French speakers, instead it's a forum for resources, help and direction.

We want to learn French in honor of Alizée which is the main motivation for most here.

[Cooney]

Originally Posted by aFrenchie

It must be haute cuisine and haute couture, even in English? (both noun are feminine)
In French, "haute couture" is good but I don't remember having heard "haute cuisine". Rather "grande cuisine"...

Err, yes, usually it does have that e on the end (properly done). There are many cases where Americans drop the e, but properly you are right, we are supposed to use it.

"Haute cuisine" is a term we use to mean gourmet food, or artful cooking.

The range of pronunciation within American usage is pretty major. Among "fashionable" circles, it usually is pronounced like an aspirated version of the word "oat," and would be preceded by "an" where necessary. On the other end of the scale are people and businesses that pronounce it as "hot," and use "a" before it. One can find almost anything in between if one looks hard enough, but it always has a hard T on the end of it (unlike what I've heard in French).

[brad]

Originally Posted by aFrenchie

Not a problem, we'll do just what we can anyway...
Maybe "apprends" (learn) is a bit ambitious though. You should have used something like "(Some) help for your French" for example

whatever you suggest we will go with

if you have something better in French let me know .. I kind of think 'Learn French' is fine, I think most people won't even know what Apprends le français means anyway

it is like their first lesson is understanding what the forum heading says .. lol

[aFrenchie]

Originally Posted by Cooney

One can find almost anything in between if one looks hard enough, but it always has a hard T on the end of it (unlike what I've heard in French).

The hard T is ok since it's "haute" in French (the T isn't pronounced only in "haut")

Originally Posted by brad

if you have something better in French let me know .. I kind of think 'Learn French' is fine, I think most people won't even know what Apprends le français means anyway

Yes, leave it as it is . If you really want to improve it, I think that infinitive (Apprendre) would be better than imperative. If you still prefer imperative, it would be better in the plural form (Apprenez), that can also sound like formal, which is the same. In a title it's best to speak to everyone instead of one person (although both are correct of course). I know you're not used to that since in English you have "you" for both singular and plural and only one imperative form (covering singular and plural).