Bullying.

[Azhiri]

Okay guys, I tried to think of ways that this thread could go horribly wrong, and I concluded that if we can all focus on the topic at hand and exercise restraint and maturity (we are indeed all adults here), this can be a good discussion - if people are interested, that is.

Bullying has always been a really close topic for me. Lately I've been thinking about it more because of the whole Amanda Todd fiasco (I can give my opinion on that, but some of you won't like it) and the questions it brings up - namely:

1. Bullying will always be a part of life, that's inevitable - but when does it become excessive? Where does the "normal" urge to hurt others (kids will be kids, it was just a joke, etc) end and personal, moral responsibility begin? How much bullying should one put up with before it can be considered a legitimate problem?

2. What makes people like Amanda Todd more important than the many, many other suicides related to bullying?

3. What are some practical ways to help prevent bullying in a school setting?

In this thread, I want to hear your stories, your opinions on bullying, thoughts in general.. anything and everything you have to say on this subject. Again, keep it civil, this thread should be a place to say whatever you need to say without being judged or picked on.

[Future Raptor Ace]

Originally Posted by Azhiri

Okay guys, I tried to think of ways that this thread could go horribly wrong, and I concluded that if we can all focus on the topic at hand and exercise restraint and maturity (we are indeed all adults here), this can be a good discussion - if people are interested, that is.

Bullying has always been a really close topic for me. Lately I've been thinking about it more because of the whole Amanda Todd fiasco (I can give my opinion on that, but some of you won't like it) and the questions it brings up - namely:

1. Bullying will always be a part of life, that's inevitable - but when does it become excessive? Where does the "normal" urge to hurt others (kids will be kids, it was just a joke, etc) end and personal, moral responsibility begin? How much bullying should one put up with before it can be considered a legitimate problem?

2. What makes people like Amanda Todd more important than the many, many other suicides related to bullying?

3. What are some practical ways to help prevent bullying in a school setting?

In this thread, I want to hear your stories, your opinions on bullying, thoughts in general.. anything and everything you have to say on this subject. Again, keep it civil, this thread should be a place to say whatever you need to say without being judged or picked on.

I dont know how to answer numbers 1 and 2 however ill give my best shot at 3.
I think the problem with bullying is the bully is in a win win scenario. They look kool and strong in front of their friends by weakening someone else. If they get caught and punished, they still look kool and tough. The problem is people admire and fear these bullies at the same time, they want the power and they dont want to be the victim so they go along with the bully or turn the other cheek. This is why I feel forcing other kids to stand up to bullies is the wrong approach when really turning the other cheek is the better road to take. It is not the kids where the problem lies but it is with the adults. The punishment for bullying is not effective these days. Most of the time the bully is extremely defiant and does not really mind the punishment and like said before has their image untarnished. However if you change that then the bullies will be afraid to get caught because it will effect their image. The easiest way I can think of to accomplish this is public shaming/humiliation. Now the bully appears weak in front of the audience they are trying to impress and it ruins the hierarchy of their dominance. Now obviously their should be a line drawn somewhere on to what magnitude justifies this punishment but I shall leave that to the law makers ... but I feel what I have come up with is a definitely solution as for I have been thinking about it for years. I went to a really bad NYC high school in which 70% of the school consisted of drug dealers and bullies. Then the other 20% was the people who where "whanna-bes" and admires and the remaining 10% were the victims. LOL I remember I had this big guy have my back every time I let him cheat off me in math ... but on days where he didnt I did not have a good day (I can laugh about it now since it was 5 years ago but it was hell then)

[Merci Alizée]

I was bullied during school days, but the video of Amanda Todd makes that feel like nothing.

[mzracing76]

I have led several discussions on this topic on Facebook over the past few years...

1) giving a person to much **** to where they start to suffer in ways of Depression, Self Esteem Issues, and start believing that the talk is true is when people go to far. That is bullyin in my book.

2) no one has said that the Amanda Todd case is the worst, the most important, or the most bizaare of all stories; but each case presents a new challenge in the world of bullying. If anyone knowd about the Phoebe Prince case, knows that the 8 kids and the school were hel accountable. The school recieved several sanctions against them, while 4 of the Bullies have since been serving prison time, as well will have to do community service for their actions against Phoebe.

We need to make Bullies accountable for their actions, preach values in human nature, and encourage kids to be mature. I have always been against bullies.

3) what we can do is this - hold our Schools, Teachers, and Parents accountable for their actions. Fine them, penilize them, and suspend all included, including teachers, kids, and principles. Another thing we can do, and I have played my role, is to sponsor Legislation in Governments to make it a Federal and Local crime to commit an act of bullying. I support any law that makes it a crime, and sets up a 3 step violation process. First offense would be 90 day suspension, Second offense would be 1 year suspension without pay for teachers, $500 fine levied on the parents, or One Year suspension for students, and sanctions levied on the school or system. And finally, Third Offense would be Prison/Jail time for Students, Career ending punishment for teachers or school administrators, and $2500 fine on parents.

[ALS]

MZRacing76 good luck getting that one through the teachers union.

I'm not making light of your comments, just noting the reality of the situation.

[Merci Alizée]

Originally Posted by mzracing76

3) what we can do is this - hold our Schools, Teachers, and Parents accountable for their actions. Fine them, penilize them, and suspend all included, including teachers, kids, and principles. Another thing we can do, and I have played my role, is to sponsor Legislation in Governments to make it a Federal and Local crime to commit an act of bullying. I support any law that makes it a crime, and sets up a 3 step violation process. First offense would be 90 day suspension, Second offense would be 1 year suspension without pay for teachers, $500 fine levied on the parents, or One Year suspension for students, and sanctions levied on the school or system. And finally, Third Offense would be Prison/Jail time for Students, Career ending punishment for teachers or school administrators, and $2500 fine on parents.

Are you suggesting that everyone should be bullied to stop others from bullying?

[Azhiri]

FRA, I agree that bullying is difficult to deal with because the bully accomplishes his goal pretty much in all scenarios. I would say that in terms of the aftermath of a bully, a lot of it is on the victim to handle - to an extent. I think the most effective way to keep from getting hurt by bullies emotionally is to be at peace with what makes you stand out and to know yourself well enough to be comfortable with being called out... you can't insult someone who has already come to terms with what makes them vulnerable to be insulted. I think this value should be emphasized more in our daily lives. This should probably even be a priority over the bullying itself - that would at least do something to ease the pain and buy time for kids who feel hopeless and that there is no way out. I think people should be encouraged to go to therapy to help them get closer to inner peace. There is a bit of a stigma that comes with getting therapy, this should be changed somehow - the idea that therapy can be for everyone, not just crazy or "broken" people, should be introduced and accepted in our society.

Originally Posted by Merci Alizée

I was bullied during school days, but the video of Amanda Todd makes that feel like nothing.

Well, that case is a little different because I don't believe her suicide was a direct result of bullying, though I'm sure she was bullied quite a bit. In her version of events she is a victim, but if you do some digging that is not actually the case - her death is tragic either way, but the nature of that entire situation is not what it would seem at first glance. I don't like the fact that she's become a martyr or that she has gotten such a huge reaction over hundreds of other, more serious cases, but if it does end up becoming a turning point then I would be grateful for the attention she generated.

Originally Posted by mzracing76

I have led several discussions on this topic on Facebook over the past few years...

1) giving a person to much **** to where they start to suffer in ways of Depression, Self Esteem Issues, and start believing that the talk is true is when people go to far. That is bullyin in my book.

2) no one has said that the Amanda Todd case is the worst, the most important, or the most bizaare of all stories; but each case presents a new challenge in the world of bullying. If anyone knowd about the Phoebe Prince case, knows that the 8 kids and the school were hel accountable. The school recieved several sanctions against them, while 4 of the Bullies have since been serving prison time, as well will have to do community service for their actions against Phoebe.

We need to make Bullies accountable for their actions, preach values in human nature, and encourage kids to be mature. I have always been against bullies.

3) what we can do is this - hold our Schools, Teachers, and Parents accountable for their actions. Fine them, penilize them, and suspend all included, including teachers, kids, and principles. Another thing we can do, and I have played my role, is to sponsor Legislation in Governments to make it a Federal and Local crime to commit an act of bullying. I support any law that makes it a crime, and sets up a 3 step violation process. First offense would be 90 day suspension, Second offense would be 1 year suspension without pay for teachers, $500 fine levied on the parents, or One Year suspension for students, and sanctions levied on the school or system. And finally, Third Offense would be Prison/Jail time for Students, Career ending punishment for teachers or school administrators, and $2500 fine on parents.

I agree with your first point wholeheartedly.

With number 2, I wasn't trying to imply that Amanda Todd IS more important than other cases - I was observing that she has been elevated to the status of some sort of martyr, an "angel", and a role model - by millions of girls. Her death has gone viral, people are flocking to support her and her family. I don't like any of it. I don't like the fact that despite her case being somewhat unremarkable in the context of other bullying-related suicides, she has received more attention and support than the people who took their lives under much worse circumstances - or even MORE importantly, those who are still living the torment and are running out of time. Where is their support? What makes Amanda Todd more special? We can't help her, her story is over. What we NEED to do is learn to heal others who are going down the same path and prevent the same thing from happening again.

As far as your solution - I don't think holding specific people accountable (other than the bullies themselves) with fines or suspensions would be a good solution because the issue of bullying would not be black-and-white enough to justify it. There would have to be very specific guidelines for what would constitute a simple fine over, say, suspension. Each situation is unique. I feel like we would end up fining people for misunderstandings and unfair situations, people would end up afraid to interact with each other because no one wants to get fined or suspended.

Personally I think a good place to start would be to make classrooms smaller - that is, less children in one class. In my school, there are sometimes 30 kids to one classroom at certain times, and I've heard that it's not much better across the country. That environment is very hard to control, and it would be virtually impossible to know what is going on between kids in a class that large - people could be viciously bullied right under your nose and you might not even catch it. If classes were smaller, perhaps twenty to one class, it would be much easier to keep up with who is doing what and put a stop to any bullying that could be going on. This would also improve education in general, I believe.

I also think measures should be taken to better equip teachers to deal with bullying when they do see it. A slap on the wrist is not going to do anything. Teachers should be trained with specific techniques to get the message across to kids that what they are doing is NOT okay or acceptable, and perhaps even go over it during teacher workshops over the year.

I don't know if anyone else has noticed this or if it will make sense, but there seems to be a lack of identity in my generation. An emptiness. I think it may have to do with how sheltered we are. I see it as one of the big causes of bullying itself.

[Future Raptor Ace]

Originally Posted by mzracing76

3) what we can do is this - hold our Schools, Teachers, and Parents accountable for their actions. Fine them, penilize them, and suspend all included, including teachers, kids, and principles. Another thing we can do, and I have played my role, is to sponsor Legislation in Governments to make it a Federal and Local crime to commit an act of bullying. I support any law that makes it a crime, and sets up a 3 step violation process. First offense would be 90 day suspension, Second offense would be 1 year suspension without pay for teachers, $500 fine levied on the parents, or One Year suspension for students, and sanctions levied on the school or system. And finally, Third Offense would be Prison/Jail time for Students, Career ending punishment for teachers or school administrators, and $2500 fine on parents.

Im sorry mzracing76 but I think that is a terrible idea especially since my parents are both teachers and I cant begin to tell you the bullshit they are already held accountable for. Second you are telling me if a kid calls a another kid a name, which is normal, that if the teacher decides maybe its best to let the kids work it out themselves that the teacher should receive 90 days suspension? Are you kidding me ... think about your solution a little bit more. Also know radical solutions have radical consequences. For example yours will result in teachers issuing undeserved punishments since their ass is on the line since you are willing to suspend them for a year without pay. Next im not sure making bullying a crime to be a good idea either since our prisons are already over populated and wasting tons of tax payers dollars, sending people there that do not belong will be a huge problem. Next you will have a Salem witch trial like scenario where everyone will be accusing others of "bullying." Furthermore you want to put children in jail for just being children .......? Yes bullying is bad and needs to be minimized but throwing kids in jail for it is just plain wrong man and I cant even begin to scratch the surface on why that is.
Like I said before, if your ideas are ever put in place we will be reliving the Salem Witch Trials.

Edit:

Originally Posted by Azhiri

FRA, I agree that bullying is difficult to deal with because the bully accomplishes his goal pretty much in all scenarios. I would say that in terms of the aftermath of a bully, a lot of it is on the victim to handle - to an extent. I think the most effective way to keep from getting hurt by bullies emotionally is to be at peace with what makes you stand out and to know yourself well enough to be comfortable with being called out... you can't insult someone who has already come to terms with what makes them vulnerable to be insulted. I think this value should be emphasized more in our daily lives. This should probably even be a priority over the bullying itself - that would at least do something to ease the pain and buy time for kids who feel hopeless and that there is no way out. I think people should be encouraged to go to therapy to help them get closer to inner peace. There is a bit of a stigma that comes with getting therapy, this should be changed somehow - the idea that therapy can be for everyone, not just crazy or "broken" people, should be introduced and accepted in our society.

You are right Azhiri and I think if implemented correctly your method could work, we live in a very insecure society where we are judged by petty things such as appearance. But however what you said only works with one type of bully ... the verbal bully. With the physical bully you can be as secure with yourself as you want and it wont help you.
BTW this is the not a sexist comment but I have read somewhere that the female bully is the worst of the verbal bully as for they know how to sting where it hurts ... as a girl Azhiri how do you feel about that and do you agree or disagree with it? I was never bullied by a girl (maybe when I was really really young in like 1st grade lol) so I cannot say.

[Azhiri]

Originally Posted by Future Raptor Ace

You are right Azhiri and I think if implemented correctly your method could work, we live in a very insecure society where we are judged by petty things such as appearance. But however what you said only works with one type of bully ... the verbal bully. With the physical bully you can be as secure with yourself as you want and it wont help you.

I've never had experience with a physical bully, so I'm not sure how to approach that subject - during the time in my life that I was bullied, the abuse was always verbal. I have always heard (and I've witnessed this to be true as well) that actually fighting back, hitting the bully, is a good way to ensure that they at least think twice before picking on you again. I don't think this is a solution, solving violence with more violence, but when I think of how to deal with a physical bully that is the first thing I think of that others have told me.

BTW this is the not a sexist comment but I have read somewhere that the female bully is the worst of the verbal bully as for they know how to sting where it hurts ... as a girl Azhiri how do you feel about that and do you agree or disagree with it? I was never bullied by a girl (maybe when I was really really young in like 1st grade lol) so I cannot say.

I think girls can be worse in certain ways. I've known other girls to gang up and form elaborate conspiracies against other girls they don't like, which would include spreading nasty rumors and isolating the target from others. I think girls also hold grudges when guys wouldn't, and it is easier to set them off. For the most part a guy would need a reason to target or dislike you - a girl might decide to tear you apart just because she feels threatened by you, or if she doesn't like the way you look, or if you say the wrong thing to or about her.

I don't know if you watch Lifetime Movies (I'm addicted) but there are TONS of them about girls bullying and being vicious towards other girls. They can get crazy.

[mzracing76]

Azhri, totally agree....

And no, i am implying Name Calling as an act of bullying, think you read into that to much, FUTURE ACE
You have to suspend them to get your message across, and you have to hold teachers accountable when bullying is brought to their attention, and it should be documented.