Criticism of Alizee

[Scruffydog777]

Well I made the comment last week that this is a forum, it's not an Alizee behind kissing site. A site where all we say is you do whatever you want to do girl. You can do no wrong. if people don't buy your cds or go to your concerts, it's not because they're not any good, it's because those people all are so stupid and narrow minded.

This is what Wikipedia has to say about "discussion" in a forum,
"Forums prefer a premise of open and free discussion and often adopt de facto standards. Most common topics on forums include questions, comparisons, polls of opinion as well as debates. It is not uncommon for nonsense or unsocial behavior to sprout as people lose temper, especially if the topic is controversial. Poor understanding of differences in values of the participants is a common problem on forums. Because replies to a topic are often worded aimed at someone's point of view, discussion will usually go slightly off into several directions as people question each others' validity, sources and so on. Circular discussion and ambiguity in replies can extend for several tens of posts of a thread eventually ending when everyone gives up or attention spans waver and a more interesting subject takes over. It is not uncommon for debate to end in ad hominem attacks."

Well this site is changing ownership and the owner can decide himself or let the mods decide, who might let the fans decide what type of site this should be. Should it be a site where nothing critical can be said about Alizee? or should the discussion be open and freee?

Maybe we should have one section of it where nothing critical is said and the other section would be open and free. That I think would be a great solution. If you don't want to hear anything negative said about her, stay out of the o&f section, but that would never work. Why? The only meaningful discussions would take place there.\
But we can take a poll on what the majority of the members want here and listen to any other suggestions from members.

As far as what Aaron said, I'm quite sure I didn't say I wasn't going to support her anymore, I said I wasn't going to promote her anymore and I mentioned the reason for that. I thought she could be huge in the U.S. The thing that could've gotten her a lot of attention here was if MF had did a better job or rewriting the Frenh songs into English. That could have been a huge asset in promoting her here, but it didn't happen. So we were stuck with promoting her French music and that's a big obstacle to overcome in this country. So how do you get young men who normally would not be the least bit interested in listening to the music of a French singer, to give it a try? You put a picture of this incredibly beautiful woman on the cd. I walked around the Boston Common on different days giving away cds. When you walk up to someone even it's just to give away a cd, people are wondering what's the catch, you say it's for free,but they think after giving it to them, you'll ask for a donation. It's terribly dificult to give something away, but the one thing that would get their attention; would get them to listen is when they saw the picture of that incredibly beautiful girl. Now I feel that one great asset I had in promoting her is gone, if not completely at this point, it will be soon. I said there would be more tatoos and I was right and there will be still more.

So in my eyes I lost the greatest asset I had in promoting her music. As far as supporting her, I still support her. I will buy her cds, I hope to go to any concerts she might schedule in France. I hope to again go to Les Enfoires next year. I would still do anything for her. If she gambled all she had away in Monaco, I would do my best to help her out financially. If a family member needed a liver, I'd be there tomorrow. I just wont promote her any more. I will no longer put together cds or dvds to give away, because the image that I thought so many would fall in love with if they just had a chance to see her perform is no longer what it was.

Look at the Les Enfoires show. They put a lot of effort into these skits. This year for one skit they had everyone dress up in pilot and flght attendant uniforms and they brought in real aircraft seats. In another one thay had people wearing wedding dresses and tuxedos. So many different costumes in this show for each of the numerous participants. They do it because they know it's important to put on a good show to keep selling out these shows the way they do and to get people to buy the cds and dvds. They put a lot of effort into the image, because they know how important it is.

After the first Moscow concert, I said her career was in deep trouble.
She re-orchestrated some songs from her first two albums - big mistake
didn't dance - big mistake
wore what I described as a Wal-mart dress - big mistake
wore sneakers - big mistake
wore her hair in what I described as a house wife hair style.
I didn't like any of the hair styles during the Psych era. As I said many times, I've always loved her natural beauty. In En Concert she looked liked she showered, quickly towel dried her hair, gave it a quick comb, a little hair spray, then walked out on stage; no big hairdo; no elaborate hair style.

I remember after I made my Stalingrad post, another member posted to me "Why are you even her?" I guess they too thought all I should be doing was singing her praises.
Well she went to Mexico and they were hoping for the beautiful young woman in the Jam suit and so they came, but then she went back to Paris and by then, if they still even knew about her, they saw the shows in Moscow and in Mexico and they were not impressed. The music wasn't that good, the show quite frankly sucked. That's another reason Mylene Farmer does so well, she puts on a great show. I quite frankly believe Alizee felt at that point all she had to do was show up on stage and people would come, but she got a rude awakening.

As I said before UEDs was a gamble, she chose to go in a different direction. She was brave for doing that. It might have had better success if the sobs CM hadn't run out on her. I would've like to have seen what type of show she was going to put on at her concerts if they had taken place.

CM did run out on her, so there could be no tour and her show wasn't really given a fair chance, but it was labeled by the French media as a flop and though it didn't have a fair chance, it still has to be considered a failrure, at least from a financial standpoint.

So what are my dire predictions for this album? Like I've said before, it all depends on Sony. Sony will not put it out, if it's not a good album. I'm curious to what they might be doing in the way of music videos. If Sony is involved, I think we can look forward to some good ones.

But also as I mentioned before, any performances she does on stage or any music videos she puts out, I hope every inch of her tatoos will be covered up, because with them, the thing I loved so much, her natural beauty will be spoiled. If they show, her performances to me will be no different to me than any other singers.
If her career is important to her, I think she in unbelievably stupid for getting these tatoos. Take that as a criticism.

[Bigdan]

Originally Posted by Scruffydog777

... this is a forum, it's not an Alizee behind kissing site.

Well, not sure it's the right thing to say to persuade us ...

Originally Posted by Scruffydog777

Look at the Les Enfoires show. ... So many different costumes in this show for each of the numerous participants. They do it because they know it's important to put on a good show to keep selling out these shows the way they do and to get people to buy the cds and dvds.

I must say that all the good thing ( about outfits as well as dancing or singing) that we got almost every year on her, come from this show.
Which means that she looks stunning, sexy, emotionnal, in a show in which she didn't decide herself what she have to wear and what she have to play.

I must say that, until now, what she decide to propose of herself as an independant artist is not totally convincing.

[mzracing76]

Are her tatoos really that big a problem, from what I have seen, I do not recognize the much at all while she performing. Most of them are hidden within her outfits. And most her tatoos are actually very beautiful. jmo, mz

Scruffydog - you like promoting so much, you need to check out these american singers Maddi Jane and Lauren Taveras. Maddi reminds me alot Alizee here in USA, and Lauren is another great singer as well. Butit is Maddi that reminds me of Alizee so crystal clear. She is from Chicago and trying really hard to start her career and her own songs.

Lauren, is the one I feel I can get to actually sing. Alizee song. Have had several Facebook conversations with her regarding singing the english version of Amelie. And she is seriously considering it.

What do think?

[ALS]

Originally Posted by mzracing76

Are her tattoos really that big a problem, from what I have seen, I do not recognize the much at all while she performing. Most of them are hidden within her outfits. And most her tattoos are actually very beautiful

To a lot of people in the past Tattoo's were a sign of lower class up bringing.

Up until maybe fifteen years ago the only women that got more than one or two small discrete tattoos were exotic dancers or strippers. They don't refer to a tattoo across the base of the back as a Tramp Stamp for nothing. That type of tattoo became popular in strip clubs back in the eighties and moved on to the general population.

The problem with the tattoos she keeps adding to her body, is each additional
tattoo starts to turn another percentage of her fan base off. There still is that segment of fan base that is what I would call the fantasy fan. These are the guys that dream of being with Alizée.

My guy friends as well as the men I'm around everyday, would never ever consider a woman covered with that many tattoos. Of course these guys are pretty much over forty and not twenty or thirty somethings. If she ever decides to move on to another guy after Jeremy she is limiting the "quality" of the possibilities with every new tattoo.

I'd say even after Tinkerbell she could have had any guy she wanted. Today, I'd bet she has lost at least fifty percent of the financially successful eligible guys out there. Being a single mom who's turning twenty eight in three months isn't making it any easier. These tattoo's are another barrier she is putting up for herself.

She is still very beautiful and talented and the tattoo's are becoming a major distraction. When you look at Alizée the tattoos becoming her dominate feature, not her good looks.

[BrianO1]

I was flipping through the TV stations just now, and stopped on a P!nk concert. Pink is still very popular today.

Anyway, I'm watching her perform, and notice that she has A LOT of tattoos. Quite a few on her arms and such, big one on her back. Then the camera turns to the audiance.

FULL stadium. Thousands of people jumping up and down, having a blast. My point is, artists with tattoos, can still be successful. Lili said she was going ack to her roots musicaly. Which is pop-rock kinda stuff, similar to Pink.

So sure, she may loose some fans here and there because her her current style, but she could easily gain new fans BECAUSE of the new style.


I think she can still be very successful.

[mzracing76]

If they are turned by the tatoos, and they so eaisly persuayed to leave her because of a new style and the tatoos, were they really fans to begin with? Thats the million dollar question. To me its like a sports team. When their great everyone likes them, when their down, only the true fans stay with them you weed out the "riff-raff".

[Davedel]

One of the worst things someone can do to another is NOT to live up to their expectations. Alizee was on top of Europe for while and with the right breaks she could have made it big in the US too. She had the looks, sex-appeal, voice, charisma and lovability. With more help, guidance and time from Mylene and Laurent she very possibly could have been the queen of all queens.. but she had to do everything her way.. Dump Mylene, tell everyone that the Alizee we love is "Just a roll", freak out with Tattoos and sing mediocre songs (at best).

I'm happy that Alizee seems to be happy but very sad for the rest of the world. Oh.. what she could have been; she could have been "All that" and much, much more! I'm afraid that Alizee's golden hour has come and gone. Of course, she'll still be liked and loved by her devoted fans and she'll draw in some new fans because of her "old" YouTube videos but back in the 2003 era, when she was 18-19 years old, was her time in the limelight. Sorry, like it or not it's all true. Maybe she'll get into acting so we can see more of her.

[Azhiri]

Originally Posted by Davedel

One of the worst things someone can do to another is NOT to live up to their expectations. Alizee was on top of Europe for while and with the right breaks she could have made it big in the US too. She had the looks, sex-appeal, voice, charisma and lovability. With more help, guidance and time from Mylene and Laurent she very possibly could have been the queen of all queens.. but she had to do everything her way.. Dump Mylene, tell everyone that the Alizee we love is "Just a roll", freak out with Tattoos and sing mediocre songs (at best).

I'm happy that Alizee seems to be happy but very sad for the rest of the world. Oh.. what she could have been; she could have been "All that" and much, much more! I'm afraid that Alizee's golden hour has come and gone. Of course, she'll still be liked and loved by her devoted fans and she'll draw in some new fans because of her "old" YouTube videos but back in the 2003 era, when she was 18-19 years old, was her time in the limelight. Sorry, like it or not it's all true. Maybe she'll get into acting so we can see more of her.

I think she doesn't want to be as famous as she used to be at all. She's settled into a nice lifestyle from the look of her twitter pictures, dancing and shopping with her friends all the time and eating out. I wouldn't want to give that up either if I had to choose between that life and the tour-going, concert-performing, interview-giving, album-promoting, paparazzi-ridden life. A career is a lifestyle for a performer. I'm sure with her previous international fame, she has had enough of that business to last her a lifetime. She's already traveled the world performing for all sorts of venues and made a mark in french pop. What more could she want? I think it's time for her to more or less settle down and if she wants to make music in a low-key manner, more power to her.

As for the decision to leave MF, she was kept on a very short leash in those days. Her image had to be very meticulously maintained. She had to be coached in all sorts of things, how to conduct herself in interviews, how to perform, vocal coaching, dance practices, rehearsals. We know she is headstrong and independent by nature, it must have been hard for her to have someone else calling the shots for every move she made as an artist. At the same time she is also very easily influenced, and as others have pointed out, Jeremy probably had a hand in her decision as well. In any case, I think she didn't feel satisfied working with MF and LB, and if she'd stayed with them she could be terribly unhappy today, no matter how successful she became. I would rather her be out on her own, making her own mistakes and enjoying freedom and personal growth, than being kept in a little fly jar under MF, having all the decisions made for her and never learning to care for herself.

There seems to be this mentality that Alizee owes us something? Maybe I'm misunderstanding. She doesn't have to be successful just because we'd rather see her enjoy success. It's not our decision to make. As a fan, I may not support certain decisions she makes, but I do wholeheartedly support her own pursuit of happiness and wish her all the best.

But that's just my opinion. Just trying to make people think and present a different side.

[ALS]

The problem comparing Alizée to Pink is they are pretty much compete opposites as far as music style and their fan base are just as different.

I'd put it this way, a larger percentage of Alizée's fan base would be interested in Pink than the other way around. Alizée comes across as the nice girl from next door. While Pink is more of the very hard juvenile delinquent type.

You have to also remember she been hanging with musical artists outside of Myleen and Laurent for the last seven years. Tattoo's are the norm in the music business and there was no one around to tell her no.

Face it Alizée is a mom, twenty seven and is never going back to being eighteen again.

Like mzracing76 said:

If they are turned by the tattoos, and they so easily persuaded to leave her because of a new style and the tattoos, were they really fans to begin with?

I said it before, I don't like the tattoo's at all but hey it doesn't change my feelings for Alizée. Even when she retweeted something that made me want to throw up. I pulled my self together and realized that she is a French citizen and not an American. I looked at the tweet from her cultural point of view and understood where she was coming from.

I've been a fan for the last seven and half years and I plan on being a loyal fan for the foreseeable future, no matter the tattoo's or her ever changing musical style. On the other hand she starts dating a hip hop, gang banger type, that might be enough for me to throw in the towel.

[Karin]

Originally Posted by Scruffydog777

After the first Moscow concert, I said her career was in deep trouble.
She re-orchestrated some songs from her first two albums - big mistake
didn't dance - big mistake
wore what I described as a Wal-mart dress - big mistake
wore sneakers - big mistake
wore her hair in what I described as a house wife hair style.
I didn't like any of the hair styles during the Psych era. As I said many times, I've always loved her natural beauty. In En Concert she looked liked she showered, quickly towel dried her hair, gave it a quick comb, a little hair spray, then walked out on stage; no big hairdo; no elaborate hair style.

I think there were only 2 mistakes: re-orchestrated music (but some versions were good) and no dance...

about what she wore... sneakers - in moscow not, and in mexico - I think she feel more comfortable in sneakers as in high heels...
Dresses - only 1 I would change, other were good... its easy to tell dresses were terrible, but she liked them and fell in them good... but not in En Concert dresses - SHE NEVER LIKED THEM ... however for us she looked in them like a god...

but my criticism is not on Alizée... but on you all...
We are the last, who should criticize her... she did the best what she could and also wanted, and she is doing it until today. Maybe you think I tell only shit and Im the last who should tell something... But Im girl like Alizée, European like Alizée, I hear her from my teenage (I totally fell into her songs, in each I found myself), I feel like her angel who try to help her and understand her, and in all way to support her... on 1000% I can tell, nobody has so much understanding for her as me... If I would be her, I would accept your criticism, but it would be for me like "conspiracy" from all the people, for who I made all this until today. I had many dreams with Alizée like you all here, where I personally was Alizée... and from dreams I took much understanding for all things what she do.
You can criticize her all the day, it will not help her... but hurt her...

Some of you criticize Psychédélices and UEDS... but why not to criticize Gourmandises and MCE? try to think from Alizées side, and you will 100% much for criticism. Or, what would you do when Psychédélices would be her 1st album? Criticize her for Gourmandises and MCE... typical... only criticism.

And now small citation... "Amélie has gold for every soul" ... the same with Alizée, but some of you no...

I can be crazy, I can be stupid, I can have only air in head... but something what I wrote must be true...