MF & LB Crucify!!.......or praise them?

[MesGourmandises]

My take on this is:

Mylene Farmer and Laurent Boutonnat are a musical SUPERteam. I have nothing but praise for them, they are two geniuses in every way.

Moreso Mylene Farmer, is just an amazing artist. She has such a high quality of art, expression and creativity in her work, and it is very noir, very chic at times. It has so much culture to it, and it comes from her heart seemlessly.

She knew what it was like to be in the business, and I'm sorry to say, if they wanted Alizee to succeed, they needed an IMAGE. One of the most potentially beneficial images were her sexy-ness, and thats what they naturally chose. So they needed to emphasize it, or else nothing would have sold like it did. That's how show business is, its brutal some times, but that's just how it goes; Alizee needed to be a lolita to be so influencial and famous. End of story. Which means, Mylene Farmer and Laurent Boutonnat KNEW exactly what they had to do, and did it, flawlessly.

[Chuck]

Originally Posted by MesGourmandises

Mylene Farmer and Laurent Boutonnat KNEW exactly what they had to do, and did it, flawlessly.

They didn't have to do it.

[pepelepew]

Originally Posted by Roman

I'm with Euphoria and also HeyAmigo.

M&L were done with Alizée?
To HeyAmigo's point, I think it was a combination. Probably they all just saw that it was not going to be the same if they continued and I think to Alizée the thought of failure with them and being dismissed by them was too unappealing. She said herself that she would have been very depressed if they had asked her to leave, but it was the other way around. I suspect the fear of that result is part of why she left. If you think about it, Alizée was a huge success, even in the UK and Asia and that's why they did English versions of songs. They hoped she would continue to rocket upward in her level of success and they were obviously trying to achieve some global penetration. It didn't really happen. Even if MCE was plenty successful to continue it must have been a bit of a let down. High expectations make for high disappointment if they don't work out. Alizée was always trying to guard against that.

Alizée was done with M&L?
To Euphoria's point, I also agree that after going her whole life doing what other people said to do, eventually Alizée decided that she was an adult and she needed to do her own thing. That's what she says. I felt some of that in my own life, so I can relate. There was a quote I recently found on the cover of a magazine from like October 2003 or something where Alizée said she wanted to have a baby at 20. It might have been a somewhat idle comment at the time, but she did end up doing just that. Plus, I think Alizée eventually had to face certain facts about the direction she was going in with Mylène and couldn't just "have fun" anymore without considering the image she was portraying. I think even if Alizée's career as a big celebrity singer ends by the end of this year, if she can handle that reality, she made the right choice in doing what was healthy for her. Britney Spears just always is an example that one can use. Alizée is better off I think not having become like that (professionally or personally).

Now and on her own ...
Unfortunately, we can now really see just how things go without M&L. I think they were as good a trio as you can ask for. It would not have worked if any of those three were not there I think. It's unfair to blame a 23 year old Alizée for failing to create the same kind of magic that seems to have existed before, but it's also true. At the same time, Psychédélices is actually pretty darn good considering I probably would not have picked any of those people to work with Alizée even if I had been familiar with them.

Art? Sex? Gratitude?
There was a lot of playing on sexuality with Alizée, but even that can not be dismissed as banal and non-artistic. It's the human expression of spirit that communicates powerfully to the audience that makes it art. Laurent had his own ambitions that didn't quite turn out how he wanted. He originally wanted to be a movie producer or director. He eventually made a movie with Mylène, but that's about it. Instead he got into a great career with Mylène doing music. The guy is a great composer, if evidenced nowhere else but in Alizée's music. It is painful for me to think that time is past and won't come again. Painful.

I'm sure there were some aspects of their relationship that Alizée came to not like even beyond just getting bored. It seems it was a business relationship in the end. Early on Alizée spoke of Mylène as a benefactor, but ultimately producer is the word she uses. She is very grateful to them as she should be. I've always said that and I still think it is so.

Only praise ...
All taken together I can only praise them and say that some of what they did, if from a marketing perspective or artistic perspective, to me was genius. For example, the video for Gourmandises was a masterpiece I say. The effectiveness of what it communicated is just amazing and at the same time it has the effect of pure joy even if through lust, unlike the dark brooding songs and videos in which Mylène performed. I think it played as innocent and yet truthful of the feelings of adolescents (and the rest of us perhaps). It represented the lustful fantasies of youth - simple and uncorrupted by either a perverted prurience or puritanical prudishness. I think without Alizée as inspiration maybe that would never have happened.

Primal praise ... human flaws
While being young certainly has it's difficulties and for some horrible insecurities and let downs, there is a great feeling that is remembered with a fondness that can really only be had at that time I think. Maybe it's all simple biological emotion, but that speaks to our humanity. Is the primal praise worthy? Alizée reawakened in me, not that emotion, though the memory of it and a certain level of youthful excitement that I think I had not experienced probably since I was younger than she was in that video - even if only for a moment. That was a positive thing for me and much of the credit for that also goes to Mylène and Laurent. It's really probably unfair that all my affection has been heaped on Alizée, but it was she who was the focal point and she who was the person we all identify with. I can not fall in love with an idea, only a real human female. Some people talk about the technological singularity (look it up) where the world as we know it and humanity as we know it can change. It may be that there is a better form of life than what we live and sometimes I've felt that we must create it to replace us because of our flaws such as our conflicted construction of mind and body. Alizée made me feel like there is something to love about humanity and maybe we are ok just like we are. The aura about her may have changed. Peut-être c'est vraie que « les contes de fée sont fait pour être défait » but I've seen a little piece of divinity like no religion has ever inspired in me. It's the ability to feel that way. I can't say that I've falling in love with Alizée in the same way as with other women I've known (except maybe for some moments), but if tears of longing speak of anything, then yes, if you crucify them, you must also praise them for their part in bringing to us an Alizée whom we have loved in our way. I'm sorry. I think I may have I've fallen and I can't get up.

Ok, then after I'm done being all dramatic, I guess Deepwaters has a point there, though I'll just say that Alizée's future is unclear. I wish more good times for us all.

By the way, it's clear enough to me that she confirmed they did not respond about the album. Certainly she implied she doesn't really know what they think. I think she must have said that they responded positively to Mademoiselle Juliette when it was a single and she's not telling, however, exactly what Mylène's reaction was. One thing is crystal clear to me, Alizée no longer has any relationship with M&L. This does seem odd to some of us considering what they shared, but as I don't really know any of them well enough, there's not really anything to say.

I think Roman said it all so eloquently. Especially the primal praise/ human flaws paragraph. Alizee reawakened in me not that emotion, though the memory of it and a certain level of youthful excitement that I think I had not experienced probably since I was younger than she was in that video. It describes that connection to Alizee spot on for me. Pure poetry Roman

[djwise]

I just wanted to post my take on this. Being an avid listener of Hip-Hop, as well as a Hip-Hop DJ, there are numerous cases of artists breaking up successful partnerships with each other, as well as with producers, agents, managers, etc. And it's because that eventually, each party in a relationship feels that they have to go their own way.

I think this is the same with the Alizee-Mylene/Laurent relationship. At least Alizee felt that she needed to move on & try her own route. Personally, I'm fine with it & very understanding of it. My favorite group of all time released two classic albums in a 2 year span & then suddenly broke up & have never spoken on it again. They both still went on to be top-notch in their respective fields, however.

So, basically, I would praise Mylene & Laurent because they helped Alizee get to where she is today & who really knows what would have happened if she had been discovered by somebody else? I cannot honestly say anything bad about them and I could never say a bad word about Alizee. I liked her latest album and only feel that she can go further from here.

(I hope I made some sense...Please tell me if I didn't. >.<)

[Bigdan]

Well, she already have been crucified....

[Deepwaters]

Originally Posted by Bigdan

Well, she already have been crucified....

LOL I wondered when someone was going to point that out. Yes, if there's any horribly painful way to die, be tortured, or otherwise suffer, you can be sure that Mylène has done it as part of a performance.

[Chuck]

re MF & LB: At this point in time I prefer to ignore them. Like almost everyone here, I enjoy many of the olde songs they wrote for Lilly. But in so many ways, those songs and that sound now seem so very dated. Yee Olde. Out-of-fashion. So out-of-fashion that that sound was never in fashion here in the states. I've played Alizée's music for a lot of friends and relatives now, but some of those olde songs? No way! I'd be too embarrassed!

Look, I've said before that I suspected they were really taking advantage of Lilly. Fer Chrissakes, Mylène trademarked the name "Alizée" herself, then made Lilly buy it from her! YES, LILLY HAD TO PAY THE OLD BAG TO BE ABLE TO USE HER OWN NAME. Same thing every time Alizée has to sing one of those olde songs. They make her pay.

So, yes, Alizée benefitted as well, but if she now wants to move away, move on, get with some new sounds and new artists that are hip, current, and not assholes-- more power to her! Good for her. Ignore those moldy oldsters as much as she can and find her footing in her OWN solo career.

Frankly, the more fans keep whining for Lilly to go back to that olde crappe, the more reason she has for wanting to ditch us all and go find some new fans.

And that probably goes quadruple for olde fans that wish she'd shake 'n' shimmy again. If THAT'S your favorite thing about Alizée, perhaps you should move along to Shakira, Beyonce, Britney, or any of the dozens of others.

__________________
No offense intended, Jalen, but Gourmandises IS old. And watery. And I think it sounds like Barbie music.

[Scruffydog777]

Originally Posted by Chuck

re MF & LB: At this point in time I prefer to ignore them. Like almost everyone here, I enjoy many of the olde songs they wrote for Lilly. But in so many ways, those songs and that sound now seem so very dated. Yee Olde. Out-of-fashion. So out-of-fashion that that sound was never in fashion here in the states. I've played Alizée's music for a lot of friends and relatives now, but some of those olde songs? No way! I'd be too embarrassed!

Look, I've said before that I suspected they were really taking advantage of Lilly. Fer Chrissakes, Mylène trademarked the name "Alizée" herself, then made Lilly buy it from her! YES, LILLY HAD TO PAY THE OLD BAG TO BE ABLE TO USE HER OWN NAME. Same thing every time Alizée has to sing one of those olde songs. They make her pay.

So, yes, Alizée benefitted as well, but if she now wants to move away, move on, get with some new sounds and new artists that are hip, current, and not assholes-- more power to her! Good for her. Ignore those moldy oldsters as much as she can and find her footing in her OWN solo career.

Frankly, the more fans keep whining for Lilly to go back to that olde crappe, the more reason she has for wanting to ditch us all and go find some new fans.

And that probably goes quadruple for olde fans that wish she'd shake 'n' shimmy again. If THAT'S your favorite thing about Alizée, perhaps you should move along to Shakira, Beyonce, Britney, or any of the dozens of others.
.

I guess it's really true that beauty is in the eye of the beholder, whether it is in something such as physical beauty such as Alizees or whether it's in something like music. I for one love the music of MCE and Gour. I listen to these songs day after day after day. I don't understand how I can listen to them as often as I do and not get tired of them. I try to show these to anyone I can, thinking they've never heard of Alizee and have not idea what beautiful music they're missing.

The only song on Psych that falls into that category is PLP. Some of the other ones on it are run of the mill, I can take them or leave them, and some of the others make me cringe when I hear them. I'm too embarresed to play this music for other people.

As for MF selling the rights to Alizee's name back to her. She only asked for a symbolic 1 dollar (or was it a euro). I'm sure she could have gotten a lot more for it and I bet the only reason MF bought the rights to it in the first place was so nobody else besides Alizee would use it.

As far as Mylene being an old bag. She's one of the most if not the most successful female singers in French history so I think she deserves a little more respect. If it wasn't for her and LB, we may never have heard of Alizee.

And as far as older fans wanting to see her shimmy and shake more, there's no question this beautiful young woman was an incredibly talented dancer, but two of my favorite performances are Lou ou toi and Amelie ma dit which involve no dancing at all.

And as far as her moving in a new direction music wise, I hope she has great success no matter which way she goes, but if she does and fails, it will mean she moved away from a style that let her set a record for being the 'First French singer to have 2 songs in the top ten for 90 days, to someone who may set a record for failed concerts.

[lefty12357]

When I introduce people to Alizée's music, I'll play something off of all her albums. I never presume to know what another person is going to like. Even close friends can surprise me with what they will like or dislike.

@Chuck may have a point that the MF/LB music may seem somewhat dated, but I still love Alizée's old music, as well as the newer music from Psych. To some, it may seem strange that a pop artist would be doing music that was created by people old enough to be her parents. Alizée may be looking for music that more closely defines her generation, but it also shows that she has been willing to work outside of these artificial barriers.

And Chuck, you are right. Alizée did have to buy her name back. They charged her one euro. Mylene probably did Alizée a favor by protecting her name. If the record company had owned it, she may have not gotten it back for a long time, or for so cheap.

[Chuck]

Scruffy and Lefty, thanks for the info. I stand corrected, with my foot in my mouth about up to the kneecap.

Still, I really don't go for MF/LB's music* that much**, and Mylene's singing and persona just don't appeal to me much.

*Disclaimer: I like their music enough on Alizée's records, but I'm still more impressed by the singer than the songs.
*Disclaimer Disclaimer: Okay, the foot's in even farther now...